Plants not doing nearly as well as they used to

[François Arsenault]

Hello everyone,

During the first year of my 40-gallon planted aquarium, my plants looked
great. In particular, I had a huge, beautiful Echinodorus. My other plants
were also thriving. In fact, at times I could actually see streams of tiny
bubbles coming out of them. I assume it was oxygen, which I took as a sign
of good health.

Unfortunately, they haven't done this in a long time, and they don't look
nearly as good as before (that was maybe two years ago). If the bubbles were
indeed a sign that the plants were thriving and producing great amounts of
oxygen, what could explain their current situation?

What puzzles me is that I'm actually taking better care of my plants for the
last year or so. I've been adding fertilizer on a regular basis (but not too
often or too much), and I recently started adding CO2. I've also always made
sure I changed my fluorescent tube often enough so the light quality
wouldn't go down too much. Ok, so I only have one main light for a 40-gallon
aquarium with a large surface area, which isn't enough, but the situation
was the same when my plants were doing better.

Is there anything that could explain my plants' decreased health under
improved conditions? My old Echinodorus was 4 times the size of those I have
now, and it didn't tend to turn yellow or brown or lose leaves like the
current ones do. The situation is similar for other species. Could it be
that I now have too many plants? I'm pretty sure I have more now than 2
years ago. Are they competing with each other or something?

I realize that it could be any number of things, but any advice would be
greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Francois

[Tasslehoff]

Echinodorus species like substrate fertilisation very very much. Adding an
iron/N:P:K root tab might help. Store bought plants in good condition tend
to store a few weeks supply of nutrients and the addition of fertilizers
will keep them bubbling for a while under ideal conditions. A stream of
tiny bubbles from just one or even a few spots on a plant could signify a
damaged part of a leaf or a disintegrating one. If the plant has decreased
in size, I really think lack of light is the limiting factor to start off
with.
An increased/growing fish load will reduce the oxygen saturation ablility of
the tank over time, ie a few tetras/cories to start off with take up less
oxygen than a big oscar or lots of angelfish or gigantic bristlenose catfish
which will consume lots of oxygen thus no visible bubbles from plants. I've
no idea at what point oxygen levels signify true pearling from plants in
tanks, but I think it's around 80%(someone correct me).
IME an unpruned tank will allow plants to cover the surface or even just
taking up space in the middle of the tank ie pennywort, or heaps of baby
echinodorus' growing from a few runners from the one plant *significantly*
reduces growth/pearling of the mother/substrate lying plants from lack of
light even with 4 tubes over a 65G.

"François Arsenault" > wrote in message
. ..
> Hello everyone,
>
> During the first year of my 40-gallon planted aquarium, my plants looked
> great. In particular, I had a huge, beautiful Echinodorus. My other plants
> were also thriving. In fact, at times I could actually see streams of tiny
> bubbles coming out of them. I assume it was oxygen, which I took as a sign
> of good health.
>
> Unfortunately, they haven't done this in a long time, and they don't look
> nearly as good as before (that was maybe two years ago). If the bubbles
were
> indeed a sign that the plants were thriving and producing great amounts of
> oxygen, what could explain their current situation?
>
> What puzzles me is that I'm actually taking better care of my plants for
the
> last year or so. I've been adding fertilizer on a regular basis (but not
too
> often or too much), and I recently started adding CO2. I've also always
made
> sure I changed my fluorescent tube often enough so the light quality
> wouldn't go down too much. Ok, so I only have one main light for a
40-gallon
> aquarium with a large surface area, which isn't enough, but the situation
> was the same when my plants were doing better.
>
> Is there anything that could explain my plants' decreased health under
> improved conditions? My old Echinodorus was 4 times the size of those I
have
> now, and it didn't tend to turn yellow or brown or lose leaves like the
> current ones do. The situation is similar for other species. Could it be
> that I now have too many plants? I'm pretty sure I have more now than 2
> years ago. Are they competing with each other or something?
>
> I realize that it could be any number of things, but any advice would be
> greatly appreciated. Thank you.
>
> Francois
>
>

[RedForeman ©®]

I bet your lights are falling off....

--

RedForeman ©®





"François Arsenault" > wrote in message
. ..
> Hello everyone,
>
> During the first year of my 40-gallon planted aquarium, my plants looked
> great. In particular, I had a huge, beautiful Echinodorus. My other plants
> were also thriving. In fact, at times I could actually see streams of tiny
> bubbles coming out of them. I assume it was oxygen, which I took as a sign
> of good health.
>
> Unfortunately, they haven't done this in a long time, and they don't look
> nearly as good as before (that was maybe two years ago). If the bubbles
were
> indeed a sign that the plants were thriving and producing great amounts of
> oxygen, what could explain their current situation?
>
> What puzzles me is that I'm actually taking better care of my plants for
the
> last year or so. I've been adding fertilizer on a regular basis (but not
too
> often or too much), and I recently started adding CO2. I've also always
made
> sure I changed my fluorescent tube often enough so the light quality
> wouldn't go down too much. Ok, so I only have one main light for a
40-gallon
> aquarium with a large surface area, which isn't enough, but the situation
> was the same when my plants were doing better.
>
> Is there anything that could explain my plants' decreased health under
> improved conditions? My old Echinodorus was 4 times the size of those I
have
> now, and it didn't tend to turn yellow or brown or lose leaves like the
> current ones do. The situation is similar for other species. Could it be
> that I now have too many plants? I'm pretty sure I have more now than 2
> years ago. Are they competing with each other or something?
>
> I realize that it could be any number of things, but any advice would be
> greatly appreciated. Thank you.
>
> Francois
>
>

[Harry Muscle]

"François Arsenault" > wrote in message
. ..
> Hello everyone,
>
> During the first year of my 40-gallon planted aquarium, my plants looked
> great. In particular, I had a huge, beautiful Echinodorus. My other plants
> were also thriving. In fact, at times I could actually see streams of tiny
> bubbles coming out of them. I assume it was oxygen, which I took as a sign
> of good health.
>
> Unfortunately, they haven't done this in a long time, and they don't look
> nearly as good as before (that was maybe two years ago). If the bubbles
were
> indeed a sign that the plants were thriving and producing great amounts of
> oxygen, what could explain their current situation?
>
> What puzzles me is that I'm actually taking better care of my plants for
the
> last year or so. I've been adding fertilizer on a regular basis (but not
too
> often or too much), and I recently started adding CO2. I've also always
made
> sure I changed my fluorescent tube often enough so the light quality
> wouldn't go down too much. Ok, so I only have one main light for a
40-gallon
> aquarium with a large surface area, which isn't enough, but the situation
> was the same when my plants were doing better.
>
> Is there anything that could explain my plants' decreased health under
> improved conditions? My old Echinodorus was 4 times the size of those I
have
> now, and it didn't tend to turn yellow or brown or lose leaves like the
> current ones do. The situation is similar for other species. Could it be
> that I now have too many plants? I'm pretty sure I have more now than 2
> years ago. Are they competing with each other or something?
>
> I realize that it could be any number of things, but any advice would be
> greatly appreciated. Thank you.
>
> Francois
>
>

Could the substrate be getting too old (ie: compacted, depleted of
nutrients, etc.)?

Harry




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[Dave Millman]

"RedForeman ©®" wrote:

> I bet your lights are falling off....

I bet you are right, Red. I could have written the original message: Great
growth during year 1, increasing frustration during year 2 despite improving
skill and discipline, replaced the lamps and all was well again.

François, replace your lamps and keep up the CO2!

>
>
> --
>
> RedForeman ©®
>
> "François Arsenault" > wrote in message
> . ..
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > During the first year of my 40-gallon planted aquarium, my plants looked
> > great. In particular, I had a huge, beautiful Echinodorus. My other plants
> > were also thriving. In fact, at times I could actually see streams of tiny
> > bubbles coming out of them. I assume it was oxygen, which I took as a sign
> > of good health.
> >
> > Unfortunately, they haven't done this in a long time, and they don't look
> > nearly as good as before (that was maybe two years ago). If the bubbles
> were
> > indeed a sign that the plants were thriving and producing great amounts of
> > oxygen, what could explain their current situation?
> >
> > What puzzles me is that I'm actually taking better care of my plants for
> the
> > last year or so. I've been adding fertilizer on a regular basis (but not
> too
> > often or too much), and I recently started adding CO2. I've also always
> made
> > sure I changed my fluorescent tube often enough so the light quality
> > wouldn't go down too much. Ok, so I only have one main light for a
> 40-gallon
> > aquarium with a large surface area, which isn't enough, but the situation
> > was the same when my plants were doing better.
> >
> > Is there anything that could explain my plants' decreased health under
> > improved conditions? My old Echinodorus was 4 times the size of those I
> have
> > now, and it didn't tend to turn yellow or brown or lose leaves like the
> > current ones do. The situation is similar for other species. Could it be
> > that I now have too many plants? I'm pretty sure I have more now than 2
> > years ago. Are they competing with each other or something?
> >
> > I realize that it could be any number of things, but any advice would be
> > greatly appreciated. Thank you.
> >
> > Francois
> >
> >

[RedForeman ©®]

speaking from recent experience... same happened to me a month ago...
sharing the knowledge....

Dave, does flourite go bad after 2 years? I'm breaking that tank down and
transferring it and it's residents to a 55g, will be getting another bag to
fill up....

--

RedForeman ©®





"Dave Millman" > wrote in message
...
> "RedForeman ©®" wrote:
>
> > I bet your lights are falling off....
>
> I bet you are right, Red. I could have written the original message: Great
> growth during year 1, increasing frustration during year 2 despite
improving
> skill and discipline, replaced the lamps and all was well again.
>
> François, replace your lamps and keep up the CO2!
>
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > RedForeman ©®
> >
> > "François Arsenault" > wrote in message
> > . ..
> > > Hello everyone,
> > >
> > > During the first year of my 40-gallon planted aquarium, my plants
looked
> > > great. In particular, I had a huge, beautiful Echinodorus. My other
plants
> > > were also thriving. In fact, at times I could actually see streams of
tiny
> > > bubbles coming out of them. I assume it was oxygen, which I took as a
sign
> > > of good health.
> > >
> > > Unfortunately, they haven't done this in a long time, and they don't
look
> > > nearly as good as before (that was maybe two years ago). If the
bubbles
> > were
> > > indeed a sign that the plants were thriving and producing great
amounts of
> > > oxygen, what could explain their current situation?
> > >
> > > What puzzles me is that I'm actually taking better care of my plants
for
> > the
> > > last year or so. I've been adding fertilizer on a regular basis (but
not
> > too
> > > often or too much), and I recently started adding CO2. I've also
always
> > made
> > > sure I changed my fluorescent tube often enough so the light quality
> > > wouldn't go down too much. Ok, so I only have one main light for a
> > 40-gallon
> > > aquarium with a large surface area, which isn't enough, but the
situation
> > > was the same when my plants were doing better.
> > >
> > > Is there anything that could explain my plants' decreased health under
> > > improved conditions? My old Echinodorus was 4 times the size of those
I
> > have
> > > now, and it didn't tend to turn yellow or brown or lose leaves like
the
> > > current ones do. The situation is similar for other species. Could it
be
> > > that I now have too many plants? I'm pretty sure I have more now than
2
> > > years ago. Are they competing with each other or something?
> > >
> > > I realize that it could be any number of things, but any advice would
be
> > > greatly appreciated. Thank you.
> > >
> > > Francois
> > >
> > >
>

[François Arsenault]

From: "Tasslehoff" >


> Echinodorus species like substrate fertilisation very very much. Adding
an
> iron/N:P:K root tab might help.

Would adding liquid NPK fertilizer help too? In any case, I'm kind of wary
of adding phosphorous (phophates) to my aquarium, seeing as I already have
algae problems. In fact, I think I have brush algae on the plants. Nasty
stuff. And I can't seem to find real siamese algae eaters around here. False
siamensis, yes, but not the real thing. I have no idea where I could buy
some here in Canada.

Perhaps I'm mistaken and adding NPK wouldn't cause any trouble. Maybe I can
control the algae by changing my tube. Someone once told me that Hagen's
Power-Glo, while good for plants, promotes algae growth. That might explain
why I have more algae than I used to, since I used other types of tubes in
the past.

Adding fertilizer directly into the substrate seems like a very good idea.
However, I didn't have that when my plants, including the Echinodorus, were
doing great. I wonder what's different now.

> A stream of tiny bubbles from just one or even a few spots on a plant
> could signify a damaged part of a leaf or a disintegrating one.

Oh. I thought it meant that a plant was doing so well and producing so much
oxygen that you could actually see it as a bubble stream. So you're saying
that the oxygen bubbles don't mean that they're doing really well so much as
that there's a lot of oxygen in the water in general? Like the way people
sweat more when it's really humid outside?

> If the plant has decreased in size, I really think lack of light is the
limiting
> factor to start off with.

I'm definitely going to do something about that soon. I'm really tired about
the lack of light, not only for my plants but also for the so-so effect on
the fish. There's only a very small area where they look nice, the light
refleclting on them in a pleasant way. Elsewhere they look rather dull,
unless I move the lamp around. The difference is obvious. Two lamps, one
more to the front and one more to the back, would probably help both the
fauna and flora of my aquarium. In the case of the faune it would be more a
matter of aesthetics, not health, but it counts.

> An increased/growing fish load will reduce the oxygen saturation ablility
of
> the tank over time

I've always had a fairly heavy fish load. At times I've had over 60 fish for
40 gallons. Of course, almost all of them were very small fish, like neons,
but still. Right now I have maybe 40 small fish, plus a pair of medium-sized
pearl gouramis.

> IME an unpruned tank will allow plants to cover the surface or even just
> taking up space in the middle of the tank ie pennywort, or heaps of baby
> echinodorus' growing from a few runners from the one plant *significantly*
> reduces growth/pearling of the mother/substrate lying plants from lack of
> light even with 4 tubes over a 65G.

Hmm...I'll keep that in mind when I redo my aquarium and add more lights in
the near future.

Thank you very much for the information. I appreciate it.

Francois

[François Arsenault]

"RedForeman ©®" > wrote
> I bet your lights are falling off....

Actually, I changed my tube about 3 months ago, so it should still be fine.
However, I must admit that I've only learned about the tube weakening
phenomenon about a year ago, two years after starting my aquarium. Before
that I didn't know that a bulb loses a lot of its power after 6-8 months,
even though it still appears to be as bright.

Francois

[François Arsenault]

"Dave Millman" > wrote in message
...
> "RedForeman ©®" wrote:
>
> > I bet your lights are falling off....
>
> I bet you are right, Red. I could have written the original message: Great
> growth during year 1, increasing frustration during year 2 despite
improving
> skill and discipline, replaced the lamps and all was well again.
>
> François, replace your lamps and keep up the CO2!

I'm definitely keeping up the CO2 injection, though I need to get a special
timer to turn the airstone on and off at appropriate moments, otherwise my
fish visibly become oxygen-starved. Doing it manually isn't very convenient.

As for the lamps, it's certainly good advice, but as I mentioned in another
post in this thread (just added it), I changed my tube about 3 months ago.
Unless it's defective, it should still be fine. At least I think so.
However, I do need to add a second lamp.

Thank you for the reply.

Francois

[François Arsenault]

> Could the substrate be getting too old (ie: compacted, depleted of
> nutrients, etc.)?
>
> Harry

Actually, I'm afraid I don't have an enriched substrate. I only have regular
gravel. Not ideal, I know, but my plants nonetheless used to do a lot better
in the past.

In any case, thank you for the suggestion. I'm sure it can benefit people
who do use special substrate, or even myself if I decide to use it. I just
might. Thanks for the idea.

Francois

[Giancarlo Podio]

It's possible that with the addition of CO2, the plants are consuming
nutrients much faster than before and therefore a deficiency has been
created in one or more elements. Have you checked your nutrient
levels? What about substrate fertilization? It's possible that your
substrate has also been stripped of nutrients due to the increase in
plant uptake. I'm sure there are other possibilities, but this is the
first one that comes to mind.

What does your fertilization routine look like?

Hope that helps
Giancarlo Podio

[François Arsenault]

"Giancarlo Podio" > wrote:

> It's possible that with the addition of CO2, the plants are consuming
> nutrients much faster than before and therefore a deficiency has been
> created in one or more elements.

You know, that's quite possible. However, I only started using CO2 about a
month or two ago, and I've started having problems with plants nearly two
years ago. Still, it's an interesting hypothesis.

> Have you checked your nutrient levels?

I'm afraid don't know how to do that. I might not be a bad idea to learn
how, though.

> What about substrate fertilization? It's possible that your
> substrate has also been stripped of nutrients due to the increase in
> plant uptake.

I don't use substrate fertilization. I only have ordinary gravel. While I
know it's not ideal, my plants were doing great for the first year. I don't
know why they started doing poorly after that.

> What does your fertilization routine look like?

My aquarium is 40 gallons. I add 20 mL of Plant Gro (Hagen's iron-based
fertilizer) about once a week, right after the light turns off.

I appreciate the advice. Thanks.

Francois

[Dunter Powries]

RedForeman ©® > wrote in message
...
> speaking from recent experience... same happened to me a month ago...
> sharing the knowledge....
>
> Dave, does flourite go bad after 2 years? I'm breaking that tank down and
> transferring it and it's residents to a 55g, will be getting another bag
to
> fill up....


Flourite itself should be inert, however toxins build up in the substrate
over time and closed systems deteriorate... an argument in favor of ugf's,
incidentally.

kush

[Harry Muscle]

"Dunter Powries" > wrote in message
...
> RedForeman ©® > wrote in message
> ...
> > speaking from recent experience... same happened to me a month ago...
> > sharing the knowledge....
> >
> > Dave, does flourite go bad after 2 years? I'm breaking that tank down
and
> > transferring it and it's residents to a 55g, will be getting another bag
> to
> > fill up....
>
>
> Flourite itself should be inert, however toxins build up in the substrate
> over time and closed systems deteriorate... an argument in favor of ugf's,
> incidentally.
>
> kush
>

Also an argument for substrate heating cables.

Harry




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[Empty]

"François Arsenault" > wrote in
:

> I'm definitely keeping up the CO2 injection, though I need to get a
> special timer to turn the airstone on and off at appropriate moments,
> otherwise my fish visibly become oxygen-starved. Doing it manually
> isn't very convenient.

What I did is this:

I made a little CO2 reactor using an old gravelvac and an Aquaclear 201
powerhead. At the top of the reactor (Higher than the powerhead output!) I
rilled a little hole, just a pinprick really. Then I plugged the powerhead
into the timer the lights are on.

The CO2 supply is constant, but it only gets fully disspolved when the
lights are on. Otherwise, it bubbles out through the hole.

~Empty

--
'You're not friends. You'll never be friends. You'll be in love till it
kills you both. You'll fight, and you'll shag, and you'll hate each other
till it makes you quiver, but you'll never be friends. Love isn't brains,
children, it's blood... blood screaming inside you to work its will. I may
be love's bitch, but at least I'm man enough to admit it.'
Spike

[jamyyjhon]

I will keep carbon dioxide injection, although I need a special timer on and off the air stone at the right time, or I was becoming hypoxic fish. Do it manually is not very convenient.

[piterritz]

I'm absolutely traveling to do something about that soon. I'm absolutely annoyed about the abridgement of light, not alone for my plants but aswell for the so-so aftereffect on the fish. There's alone a actual baby breadth area they attending nice, the light refleclting on them in a affable way. Elsewhere they attending rather dull, unless I move the lamp around.