CO2 problems

[Dacaprice]

Ok.... so far everything I have read about a DIY CO2 setup is very
similar. I opted to by the Nutrafin system... but with the packets
they sold me I was getting nothing. I think the yeast was dead.
Regardless, I re-made my own mixture with yeast and baking soda using
the same measurements that come in the packets. I finally got
bubbles, but they only lasted a couple hours then nothing. I then
removed the Nutrafin canister and used a 1 gallon juice bottle,
increased the amounts of everything and presto... great bubbles. But
again it only lasted a couple hours. What is going on!?!?!? It is
very frustrating. I have soft water here; we have a water softener in
our home. Does that make a difference? Should I try a different
brand of yeast? Right now I am using Red Start Active dry yeast which
was just what was at the local supermarket. Any help would be greatly
appreciated.

[Moontanman]

>I think the yeast was dead.
>Regardless, I re-made my own mixture with yeast and baking soda using
>the same measurements that come in the packets. I finally got
>bubbles, but they only lasted a couple hours then nothing. I then
>removed the Nutrafin canister and used a 1 gallon juice bottle,

Ummm, why would you put baking soda in the yeast culture? Yeast is cultured
with sugar water, the CO2 will be released naturally with out adding anything
else. yeast and sugar water can create quite a bit of CO2 pressure in a few
days that can last for weeks if used correctly in a small tank. larger tanks
need more than one soda bottle to last that long. I use two bottles, a three
liter bottle to culture the yeast in and a two liter bottle to keep track of
the bubbles and to help prevent the yeast from backing up into the tank. No
baking soda should be used at all.

Moon

I breed dwarf crayfish for planted aquariums and grow trees in aquariums.
My groups

[Dunter Powries]

Moontanman > wrote in message
...
> >I think the yeast was dead.
> >Regardless, I re-made my own mixture with yeast and baking soda using
> >the same measurements that come in the packets. I finally got
> >bubbles, but they only lasted a couple hours then nothing. I then
> >removed the Nutrafin canister and used a 1 gallon juice bottle,
>
> Ummm, why would you put baking soda in the yeast culture? Yeast is
cultured
> with sugar water, the CO2 will be released naturally with out adding
anything
> else. yeast and sugar water can create quite a bit of CO2 pressure in a
few
> days that can last for weeks if used correctly in a small tank. larger
tanks
> need more than one soda bottle to last that long. I use two bottles, a
three
> liter bottle to culture the yeast in and a two liter bottle to keep track
of
> the bubbles and to help prevent the yeast from backing up into the tank.
No
> baking soda should be used at all.

A pinch of baking soda is supposed to reduce acidity within the reactor.

[Djay]

Check for leaks. Everywhere there is a connection. I use a soapy water mix
and look for bubbles to show where the system is leaking.

DJay


"Dacaprice" > wrote in message
om...
> Ok.... so far everything I have read about a DIY CO2 setup is very
> similar. I opted to by the Nutrafin system... but with the packets
> they sold me I was getting nothing. I think the yeast was dead.
> Regardless, I re-made my own mixture with yeast and baking soda using
> the same measurements that come in the packets. I finally got
> bubbles, but they only lasted a couple hours then nothing. I then
> removed the Nutrafin canister and used a 1 gallon juice bottle,
> increased the amounts of everything and presto... great bubbles. But
> again it only lasted a couple hours. What is going on!?!?!? It is
> very frustrating. I have soft water here; we have a water softener in
> our home. Does that make a difference? Should I try a different
> brand of yeast? Right now I am using Red Start Active dry yeast which
> was just what was at the local supermarket. Any help would be greatly
> appreciated.

[Dacaprice]

> Ummm, why would you put baking soda in the yeast culture?
> Moon
>
> I breed dwarf crayfish for planted aquariums and grow trees in aquariums.
> My groups
>
>
>
> sturgeon-subscribe@yahoogroups.

Like I said I matched the original formula from nutrafin. From what
I've read about yeast cultures, baking soda slows the rate at which
the yeast consumes the sugar and produces CO2. It also seems... from
what I've read... that since I have soft water, the yeast will not
last more than a week without the baking soda which acts as a
neutralizer. You've never heard of this?

[Ron Hagley]

My Nutrafin systems work fine producing bubbles for about 6 weeks.
Are they in a reasonable temperature and higher than the tank level. I found
that if they are lower you can suffer from suckback of tank water into the
canisters.

Ron

"Djay" > wrote in message
...
> Check for leaks. Everywhere there is a connection. I use a soapy water
mix
> and look for bubbles to show where the system is leaking.
>
> DJay
>
>
> "Dacaprice" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Ok.... so far everything I have read about a DIY CO2 setup is very
> > similar. I opted to by the Nutrafin system... but with the packets
> > they sold me I was getting nothing. I think the yeast was dead.
> > Regardless, I re-made my own mixture with yeast and baking soda using
> > the same measurements that come in the packets. I finally got
> > bubbles, but they only lasted a couple hours then nothing. I then
> > removed the Nutrafin canister and used a 1 gallon juice bottle,
> > increased the amounts of everything and presto... great bubbles. But
> > again it only lasted a couple hours. What is going on!?!?!? It is
> > very frustrating. I have soft water here; we have a water softener in
> > our home. Does that make a difference? Should I try a different
> > brand of yeast? Right now I am using Red Start Active dry yeast which
> > was just what was at the local supermarket. Any help would be greatly
> > appreciated.
>
>

[Bill Kirkpatrick]

1) Are you using "fast acting" yeast? Red Star makes both
types. Fast acting types don't survive higher alcohol
levels and are quite, um, "fast". Even so, a couple of
hours seems a little quick, even for fast yeast, unless the
mix is quite warm.

2) If your water is very soft, you may be missing minerals
the yeast needs to grow. Sugar is fine, but it doesn't
build cellular structures. You can buy "yeast nutrient",
but you can also use any generic brand plant fertilizer (the
kind trace elements that you mix with water) to somewhat
better results. Just a pinch, you don't want too much
Ammonia, use the lowest "N" type you can find.

3) The best yeast to use are the high alcohol types used in
beer and wine making. Yeast, of any sort, peaks at about
18%-20% Alcohol. Bread yeast might get to 10%, and fast
acting types can fade away at 6-8%. YMMV, it all depends on
the species. Alcohol production is proportional to CO2.

4) You use/need Baking Soda if you allow air into your mix.
Bacteria convert the Alcohol to Vinegar. What happens
when you mix Vinegar and Baking Soda? Well, more CO2. Not
exactly easy, what with vigorous CO2 production going on,
but you can use an air pump if you have a suitable means for
exchanging the CO2 rich air into your tank. A typical
"CO2 reactor" will not serve here, this requires a
specialized design.

5) Your water may have high Chlorine or Chloramine. Yeast
aren't immune to this stuff any more than any sort of
one-celled organism. Generally, if you add enough yeast you
overcome the bactericide with shear mass. But, maybe try
adding Amquel, processing your water through RO, DI, or
Carbon cartridges, or doubling your yeast dose.

**************************
Dacaprice wrote:
> Ok.... so far everything I have read about a DIY CO2 setup is very
> similar. I opted to by the Nutrafin system... but with the packets
> they sold me I was getting nothing. I think the yeast was dead.
> Regardless, I re-made my own mixture with yeast and baking soda using
> the same measurements that come in the packets. I finally got
> bubbles, but they only lasted a couple hours then nothing. I then
> removed the Nutrafin canister and used a 1 gallon juice bottle,
> increased the amounts of everything and presto... great bubbles. But
> again it only lasted a couple hours. What is going on!?!?!? It is
> very frustrating. I have soft water here; we have a water softener in
> our home. Does that make a difference? Should I try a different
> brand of yeast? Right now I am using Red Start Active dry yeast which
> was just what was at the local supermarket. Any help would be greatly
> appreciated.

[Moontanman]

> It also seems... from
>what I've read... that since I have soft water, the yeast will not
>last more than a week without the baking soda which acts as a
>neutralizer. You've never heard of this?

Nope new one on me but I'm willing to learn.

Moon
I breed dwarf crayfish for planted aquariums and grow trees in aquariums.
My groups

[Tony Kissell]

"Dacaprice" > wrote in message
om...
> Ok.... so far everything I have read about a DIY CO2 setup is very
> similar. I opted to by the Nutrafin system... but with the packets
> they sold me I was getting nothing. I think the yeast was dead.
> Regardless, I re-made my own mixture with yeast and baking soda using
> the same measurements that come in the packets. I finally got
> bubbles, but they only lasted a couple hours then nothing. I then
> removed the Nutrafin canister and used a 1 gallon juice bottle,
> increased the amounts of everything and presto... great bubbles. But
> again it only lasted a couple hours. What is going on!?!?!? It is
> very frustrating. I have soft water here; we have a water softener in
> our home. Does that make a difference? Should I try a different
> brand of yeast? Right now I am using Red Start Active dry yeast which
> was just what was at the local supermarket. Any help would be greatly
> appreciated.

When I change my mixture in my 2 Nutrafin systems I get bubbles initially
for only a couple of hours, then about 12 - 24 hrs later the system starts
bubbling again and lasts a couple of weeks.
The Nutrafin instruction state that this might happen.

How long are you leaving the mixture before you decide it isn't working?

Tony

[Moontanman]

>
>How long are you leaving the mixture before you decide it isn't working?
>

I don't really worry about activity before at least 24 hours, temps have a real
controling effect on speed of activity.

Moon
I breed dwarf crayfish for planted aquariums and grow trees in aquariums.
My groups

[Robert Flory]

"Moontanman" > wrote in message
...
> >I think the yeast was dead.
> >Regardless, I re-made my own mixture with yeast and baking soda using
> >the same measurements that come in the packets. I finally got
> >bubbles, but they only lasted a couple hours then nothing. I then
> >removed the Nutrafin canister and used a 1 gallon juice bottle,
>
> Ummm, why would you put baking soda in the yeast culture? Yeast is
cultured
> with sugar water, the CO2 will be released naturally with out adding
anything
> else. yeast and sugar water can create quite a bit of CO2 pressure in a
few
> days that can last for weeks if used correctly in a small tank. larger
tanks
> need more than one soda bottle to last that long. I use two bottles, a
three
> liter bottle to culture the yeast in and a two liter bottle to keep track
of
> the bubbles and to help prevent the yeast from backing up into the tank.
No
> baking soda should be used at all.
>
> Moon
>

The big juice bottles work for me. I get a couple of weeks at a run at the
very least. I just dump a bunch of sugar in (about double a two liter
bottle recipe) add water, shake to mix, add red star or what ever I find on
the shelf and have bubbles in a half hour or so.

I stagger two bottles so optimizing the mix isn't worth the trouble.

bob

[Aquatic-Store.com]

Also check for excessive heat as this will kill the yeast


Kasselmann aquarium plants book 59.99

Marcus

http://www.aquatic-store.com/

Co2 tanks on sale
Power compact bulbs and MH the lowest on the net
Co2 regulator and bubble counter with needle valve $75

do you want a FREE CO2 Regulator or FREE CO2 DIFFUSOR????

Swing on by our webbforum to see how to get one!!

http://aquatic.yupapa.com/phpbb/index.php

http://www.aquarium-plant-store.com







On 6 Feb 2004 23:29:58 -0800, (Dacaprice) wrote:

>Ok.... so far everything I have read about a DIY CO2 setup is very
>similar. I opted to by the Nutrafin system... but with the packets
>they sold me I was getting nothing. I think the yeast was dead.
>Regardless, I re-made my own mixture with yeast and baking soda using
>the same measurements that come in the packets. I finally got
>bubbles, but they only lasted a couple hours then nothing. I then
>removed the Nutrafin canister and used a 1 gallon juice bottle,
>increased the amounts of everything and presto... great bubbles. But
>again it only lasted a couple hours. What is going on!?!?!? It is
>very frustrating. I have soft water here; we have a water softener in
>our home. Does that make a difference? Should I try a different
>brand of yeast? Right now I am using Red Start Active dry yeast which
>was just what was at the local supermarket. Any help would be greatly
>appreciated.

How warm must the bottle with the mixture be kept.Room temp;cooler,warmer?
Thanks Skipp
"Aquatic-Store.com" <sales a@t Aquatic-Store.com> wrote in message
...
> Also check for excessive heat as this will kill the yeast
>
>
> Kasselmann aquarium plants book 59.99
>
> Marcus
>
> http://www.aquatic-store.com/
>
> Co2 tanks on sale
> Power compact bulbs and MH the lowest on the net
> Co2 regulator and bubble counter with needle valve $75
>
> do you want a FREE CO2 Regulator or FREE CO2 DIFFUSOR????
>
> Swing on by our webbforum to see how to get one!!
>
> http://aquatic.yupapa.com/phpbb/index.php
>
> http://www.aquarium-plant-store.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 6 Feb 2004 23:29:58 -0800, (Dacaprice) wrote:
>
> >Ok.... so far everything I have read about a DIY CO2 setup is very
> >similar. I opted to by the Nutrafin system... but with the packets
> >they sold me I was getting nothing. I think the yeast was dead.
> >Regardless, I re-made my own mixture with yeast and baking soda using
> >the same measurements that come in the packets. I finally got
> >bubbles, but they only lasted a couple hours then nothing. I then
> >removed the Nutrafin canister and used a 1 gallon juice bottle,
> >increased the amounts of everything and presto... great bubbles. But
> >again it only lasted a couple hours. What is going on!?!?!? It is
> >very frustrating. I have soft water here; we have a water softener in
> >our home. Does that make a difference? Should I try a different
> >brand of yeast? Right now I am using Red Start Active dry yeast which
> >was just what was at the local supermarket. Any help would be greatly
> >appreciated.
>

[Djay]

To start the yeast read the yeast lable for the particular type you are
using. It will be either 85 degrees for the cake yeast or 100 ~ 105 degrees
for the fleischmans and star bread yeast. I used to start my suger/ warm
water mix and let it sit for a day. You will see foaming at the surface and
that means the yeast is alive and kicking! Then just hook it up to your CO2
reactor.
Now if your yeast bottle is in a very cold area you may have difficulty
keeping the yeast culture alive. Mine was in a room that didn't get below
65 degrees at night (winter) and during the day it would sometimes ballon
into the upper 80s (summer). I kept the yeast bottle on top of my aquarium
hood in order to help it heat up when the lights kicked on.
Also as far as the baking soda goes... it's fine to add it to counteract the
soft water conditions mentioned in Dacaprice's post.

DJay


> wrote in message ...
> How warm must the bottle with the mixture be kept.Room temp;cooler,warmer?
> Thanks Skipp
> "Aquatic-Store.com" <sales a@t Aquatic-Store.com> wrote in message
> ...
> > Also check for excessive heat as this will kill the yeast
> >
> >
> > Kasselmann aquarium plants book 59.99
> >
> > Marcus
> >
> > http://www.aquatic-store.com/
> >
> > Co2 tanks on sale
> > Power compact bulbs and MH the lowest on the net
> > Co2 regulator and bubble counter with needle valve $75
> >
> > do you want a FREE CO2 Regulator or FREE CO2 DIFFUSOR????
> >
> > Swing on by our webbforum to see how to get one!!
> >
> > http://aquatic.yupapa.com/phpbb/index.php
> >
> > http://www.aquarium-plant-store.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 6 Feb 2004 23:29:58 -0800, (Dacaprice) wrote:
> >
> > >Ok.... so far everything I have read about a DIY CO2 setup is very
> > >similar. I opted to by the Nutrafin system... but with the packets
> > >they sold me I was getting nothing. I think the yeast was dead.
> > >Regardless, I re-made my own mixture with yeast and baking soda using
> > >the same measurements that come in the packets. I finally got
> > >bubbles, but they only lasted a couple hours then nothing. I then
> > >removed the Nutrafin canister and used a 1 gallon juice bottle,
> > >increased the amounts of everything and presto... great bubbles. But
> > >again it only lasted a couple hours. What is going on!?!?!? It is
> > >very frustrating. I have soft water here; we have a water softener in
> > >our home. Does that make a difference? Should I try a different
> > >brand of yeast? Right now I am using Red Start Active dry yeast which
> > >was just what was at the local supermarket. Any help would be greatly
> > >appreciated.
> >
>
>

[Dunter Powries]

Robert Flory > wrote in message
...
> ...
> The big juice bottles work for me. I get a couple of weeks at a run at the
> very least. I just dump a bunch of sugar in (about double a two liter
> bottle recipe) add water, shake to mix, add red star or what ever I find
on
> the shelf and have bubbles in a half hour or so.
>
> I stagger two bottles so optimizing the mix isn't worth the trouble.

I have two juice bottles on powerheads - 1½ cups sugar and a pinch of yeast
gives me better than ten days. I replace the mixture with each weekly water
change so for me, too, there's not much point in fine tuning the process any
further.

[Dunter Powries]

Djay > wrote in message
...
> ...
> Now if your yeast bottle is in a very cold area you may have difficulty
> keeping the yeast culture alive.

The yeast will be alive, just not especially active. The lower the
temperature, the slower the production of CO2. The higher the temperature -
up to about 110° - the more rapid the conversion of sugar to alcohol and the
sooner you will have to replace the mixture.

The most common method of killing the yeast is by using hot water during
mixing. Hot water or chlorinated tap water WILL kill the yeast. The reason
hot water is used at the beginning of the process is to dissolve the sugar.
Let it stand or add cooler water until the solution is (well) below 110°
before adding any yeast.

[Dacaprice]

> When I change my mixture in my 2 Nutrafin systems I get bubbles initially
> for only a couple of hours, then about 12 - 24 hrs later the system starts
> bubbling again and lasts a couple of weeks.
> The Nutrafin instruction state that this might happen.
>
> How long are you leaving the mixture before you decide it isn't working?
>
> Tony

I let it run for about 4 days and no luck... Since I made my initial
post I filled a 1 gallon Hawaiin Punch container with a mixture that
was meant for a 2 liter bottle and have been getting excellent
bubbleage (for lack of a better word :) It has been running strong
for 4 days now so I'll keep my fingers crossed and see what happens.
The bubble counter works great.... bubbles dwindle to practically
nothing by the time they reach the top and I usually have about 8 or
so in there at any given time.