**sick koi** #help#

[*muffin*]

ok,, it finally hit. I have sick koi.

(seems to be about 5 koi,, goldfish don't seem to be affected)

there is no way I can catch them,,, & the pics I have on my site are the
best I can get(so far) .

looks like whitespot stuff on a few koi & one koi looks like an ulcer <#3
pic> (??). the whitespot stuff, is just kind of a dull patch on the koi,
like murkywhite( not sure if I am describing it right), doesn't look
'fuzzy'.

ok, pics are on http://community.webshots.com/album/74707665onrGAN

koi #1,2,3

what is BEST way to treat pond,, (3600 gal. have melafix & Potassium
permanganate)

& also, question about pond.. it has a *film* on the top of it , any ideas??
I do not have a skimmer ( don't want one, because of floating plants),, I do
have a water falls running though, & 'big' filter.

I am running a UV filter, & it finally has started to clear, but as you can
see, still murky.

[*muffin*]

in case you ask.
water test at 3:45 PM

PH : 8.3
ammonia : 0% ( but not perfectly 0, maybe a negligible amount,, I hate these
testers)
Nitrite : .5%

salt .11%
KH hardness 11

I went to koivet,, & am not doing injections (ok, that part won't bother
me,, & daughter works for a vet,, but catching the suckers???)
so I added salt & PP at a rate of 1t. per 600 gal. says to repeat in 4
days...

any other suggestions??

muffin > dang.. just when my quarantine tank fish were about to enter the
pond .





"*muffin*" > wrote in message
...
> ok,, it finally hit. I have sick koi.
>
>

[*muffin*]

yea, thanks : (

at least they are still eating like little piranhas!

the 'film' on the water,, is just annoying, (I think , I hope).. don't think
its white,, but just *filmy* ( how else to describe it???)


Muffin >>> major pout.........


"Nedra" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> Muffin, Gosh I am sorry about your fish! All I ever do is
> Panic - I haven't a clue as to what to do to fix your babies.
> I don't see the 'milky' cast to the surface of your pond...
> that is what I first thought I'd see. When you do see it...
> the milky cast ... it means there is a bacterial infection
> going on somewhere in your pond water.
>
> Awfully sorry :(
> Someone will come in and help you fix it.
>

[*muffin*]

I added 2 more pics.

the film reminds me of what looks around a dying lily flower,,, that kind of
film ( am I the only one to have seen that??)

but the whole pond is covered, & I don't think I have many old flowers ( I
just dead headed some last week)

arrghhhhhhh


>
> "Nedra" > wrote in message
> nk.net...
> > Muffin, Gosh I am sorry about your fish! All I ever do is
> > Panic - I haven't a clue as to what to do to fix your babies.
> > I don't see the 'milky' cast to the surface of your pond...
> > that is what I first thought I'd see. When you do see it...
> > the milky cast ... it means there is a bacterial infection
> > going on somewhere in your pond water.
> >
> > Awfully sorry :(
> > Someone will come in and help you fix it.
> >
>
>

[RichToyBox]

muffin,

The white spots look like scarred areas that are healing. A couple of my
fish skinned themselves pretty good during spawning and have a similar
appearance. If it is getting worse, then it could be columnaris, and the PP
is a good choice for treatment. The red area on koi #3 looks to be a bruise
or abrasion, not really an ulcer. It isn't nearly inflamed enough to worry
about yet. The PP and salt will minimize the chances of infection.

The film on the water is probably proteins. It is almost like an oil slick
and adds a strange shine to the surface, limiting the visibility into the
water. The PP will help to digest the proteins and you should see a lot of
brown foam at the waterfall if that is the case. It can be removed by
overflowing the pond, which makes one form of skimmer action, but spray the
water toward the overflow area to speed the skimming action.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"*muffin*" > wrote in message
...
> ok,, it finally hit. I have sick koi.
>
> (seems to be about 5 koi,, goldfish don't seem to be affected)
>
> there is no way I can catch them,,, & the pics I have on my site are the
> best I can get(so far) .
>
> looks like whitespot stuff on a few koi & one koi looks like an ulcer <#3
> pic> (??). the whitespot stuff, is just kind of a dull patch on the koi,
> like murkywhite( not sure if I am describing it right), doesn't look
> 'fuzzy'.
>
> ok, pics are on http://community.webshots.com/album/74707665onrGAN
>
> koi #1,2,3
>
> what is BEST way to treat pond,, (3600 gal. have melafix & Potassium
> permanganate)
>
> & also, question about pond.. it has a *film* on the top of it , any
ideas??
> I do not have a skimmer ( don't want one, because of floating plants),, I
do
> have a water falls running though, & 'big' filter.
>
> I am running a UV filter, & it finally has started to clear, but as you
can
> see, still murky.
>
>

[*muffin*]

ok,, I does no reall look like raw skin,, so i 'hope' ha is wha i is,, i
looks like someone

arrhhhhhhhhhh
m ke board is gone wack ....
some of m le ers are no working.......
major helppppppppp







ichToyBox" > wrote in message
news:hrnQa.49341$GL4.12657@rwcrnsc53...
> muffin,
>
> The white spots look like scarred areas that are healing. A couple of my
> fish skinned themselves pretty good during spawning and have a similar
> appearance. If it is getting worse, then it could be columnaris, and the
PP
> is a good choice for treatment. The red area on koi #3 looks to be a
bruise
> or abrasion, not really an ulcer. It isn't nearly inflamed enough to
worry
> about yet. The PP and salt will minimize the chances of infection.
>
> The film on the water is probably proteins. It is almost like an oil
slick
> and adds a strange shine to the surface, limiting the visibility into the
> water. The PP will help to digest the proteins and you should see a lot
of
> brown foam at the waterfall if that is the case. It can be removed by
> overflowing the pond, which makes one form of skimmer action, but spray
the
> water toward the overflow area to speed the skimming action.
> --
> RichToyBox
> http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html
>
>
> "*muffin*" > wrote in message
> ...
> > ok,, it finally hit. I have sick koi.
> >
> > (seems to be about 5 koi,, goldfish don't seem to be affected)
> >
> > there is no way I can catch them,,, & the pics I have on my site are the
> > best I can get(so far) .
> >
> > looks like whitespot stuff on a few koi & one koi looks like an ulcer
<#3
> > pic> (??). the whitespot stuff, is just kind of a dull patch on the
koi,
> > like murkywhite( not sure if I am describing it right), doesn't look
> > 'fuzzy'.
> >
> > ok, pics are on http://community.webshots.com/album/74707665onrGAN
> >
> > koi #1,2,3
> >
> > what is BEST way to treat pond,, (3600 gal. have melafix & Potassium
> > permanganate)
> >
> > & also, question about pond.. it has a *film* on the top of it , any
> ideas??
> > I do not have a skimmer ( don't want one, because of floating plants),,
I
> do
> > have a water falls running though, & 'big' filter.
> >
> > I am running a UV filter, & it finally has started to clear, but as you
> can
> > see, still murky.
> >
> >
>
>

[*muffin*]

hope spellchecker fixes...

did you see his tail/ It also looks flamed in the picture of number 1

but heads do look like someone dotted their heads with white paint.

hmmm
.. had to cop and paste the letter 't'


"RichToyBox" > wrote in message
news:hrnQa.49341$GL4.12657@rwcrnsc53...
> muffin,
>
> The white spots look like scarred areas that are healing. A couple of my
> fish skinned themselves pretty good during spawning and have a similar
> appearance. If it is getting worse, then it could be columnaris, and the
PP
> is a good choice for treatment. The red area on koi #3 looks to be a
bruise
> or abrasion, not really an ulcer. It isn't nearly inflamed enough to
worry
> about yet. The PP and salt will minimize the chances of infection.
>
> The film on the water is probably proteins. It is almost like an oil
slick
> and adds a strange shine to the surface, limiting the visibility into the
> water. The PP will help to digest the proteins and you should see a lot
of
> brown foam at the waterfall if that is the case. It can be removed by
> overflowing the pond, which makes one form of skimmer action, but spray
the
> water toward the overflow area to speed the skimming action.
> --
> RichToyBox
> http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html
>
>
> "*muffin*" > wrote in message
> ...
> > ok,, it finally hit. I have sick koi.
> >
> > (seems to be about 5 koi,, goldfish don't seem to be affected)
> >
> > there is no way I can catch them,,, & the pics I have on my site are the
> > best I can get(so far) .
> >
> > looks like whitespot stuff on a few koi & one koi looks like an ulcer
<#3
> > pic> (??). the whitespot stuff, is just kind of a dull patch on the
koi,
> > like murkywhite( not sure if I am describing it right), doesn't look
> > 'fuzzy'.
> >
> > ok, pics are on http://community.webshots.com/album/74707665onrGAN
> >
> > koi #1,2,3
> >
> > what is BEST way to treat pond,, (3600 gal. have melafix & Potassium
> > permanganate)
> >
> > & also, question about pond.. it has a *film* on the top of it , any
> ideas??
> > I do not have a skimmer ( don't want one, because of floating plants),,
I
> do
> > have a water falls running though, & 'big' filter.
> >
> > I am running a UV filter, & it finally has started to clear, but as you
> can
> > see, still murky.
> >
> >
>
>

[Nedra]

0.3 percent is the usual medicinal dosage for salt.

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"*muffin*" > wrote in message
...
> .18 percen now
> how high can i go before i hur s plan s
>
> arrghhhhhhhhhhh ke board..............
>
>
>
> "Nedra" > wrote in message
> nk.net...
> >
> > I have never seen anything like that film... I wish someone
> > would come in here and have a look.
> >
> > What percentage pond salt do you have in the pond?
> > I used to treat my
> > pond with salt to cure the bacterial film. I never had any
> > other meds in the pond - so I really hate to tell you what
> > to do for fear it would hurt more than help.
> >
> > Nedra
> > http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
> > http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118
> >
> > "*muffin*" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > I added 2 more pics.
> > >
> > > the film reminds me of what looks around a dying lily flower,,, that
> kind
> > of
> > > film ( am I the only one to have seen that??)
> > >
> > > but the whole pond is covered, & I don't think I have many old flowers
> ( I
> > > just dead headed some last week)
> > >
> > > arrghhhhhhh
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > "Nedra" > wrote in message
> > > > nk.net...
> > > > > Muffin, Gosh I am sorry about your fish! All I ever do is
> > > > > Panic - I haven't a clue as to what to do to fix your babies.
> > > > > I don't see the 'milky' cast to the surface of your pond...
> > > > > that is what I first thought I'd see. When you do see it...
> > > > > the milky cast ... it means there is a bacterial infection
> > > > > going on somewhere in your pond water.
> > > > >
> > > > > Awfully sorry :(
> > > > > Someone will come in and help you fix it.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>

[bern]

"*muffin*" > wrote in message >...
> I added 2 more pics.

It looks like something is rotting in the pond. Did perhaps an animal
fall in and drown? You might check the bottom to see if anything is
there. Is there an excess of vegetation? It doesn't look like motor
oil.

I would try to catch out the koi, perhaps by luring them with food to
a pre sunk net, then when they are eating you can quickly raise the
net and get them. Then treat them in a hospital tank. I don't like the
look of those lesions. I think concentrated antibiotic is called for.

good luck!

[*muffin*]

eeegads........
I cannot see the bottom,, would not be cool to walk in IT and 'step' on
something........... eek.

will try to catch,, but from what someone else wrote, when he did IT IT took
forever for fish to come back again.

,,,,,,,,,darn keyboard only some keys work,, have to cut an paste 't'



"bern" > wrote in message
om...
> "*muffin*" > wrote in message
>...
> > I added 2 more pics.
>
> It looks like something is rotting in the pond. Did perhaps an animal
> fall in and drown? You might check the bottom to see if anything is
> there. Is there an excess of vegetation? It doesn't look like motor
> oil.
>
> I would try to catch out the koi, perhaps by luring them with food to
> a pre sunk net, then when they are eating you can quickly raise the
> net and get them. Then treat them in a hospital tank. I don't like the
> look of those lesions. I think concentrated antibiotic is called for.
>
> good luck!

[jammer]

On 13 Jul 2003 21:06:40 -0700, (bern) wrote:

>"*muffin*" > wrote in message >...
>> I added 2 more pics.
>
>It looks like something is rotting in the pond. Did perhaps an animal
>fall in and drown? You might check the bottom to see if anything is
>there. Is there an excess of vegetation? It doesn't look like motor
>oil.

Excuse me, what about "excess" vegetation? I was absent that day. I
had to punch a hole in some anacharis to sink an air hose tonight. How
do i know if there is too much and what does that do?
Thanks
>
>I would try to catch out the koi, perhaps by luring them with food to
>a pre sunk net, then when they are eating you can quickly raise the
>net and get them. Then treat them in a hospital tank. I don't like the
>look of those lesions. I think concentrated antibiotic is called for.
>
>good luck!

[joe]

*muffin* wrote:

> the 'film' on the water,, is just annoying, (I think , I hope).. don't think
> its white,, but just *filmy* ( how else to describe it???)

I don't know what it is, but when I used to have a similar thing in an
aquarium I used to take a piece of paper and draw it across the water. The
film would cling to it. Not sure how to adapt that to a pond. Maybe
newspaper?

Joe



-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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[joe]

*muffin* wrote:

> eeegads........
> I cannot see the bottom,, would not be cool to walk in IT and 'step' on
> something........... eek.
>
> will try to catch,, but from what someone else wrote, when he did IT IT took
> forever for fish to come back again.
>
> ,,,,,,,,,darn keyboard only some keys work,, have to cut an paste 't'

Muffin,

I can't find the post now, but was it you that asked if rotting barley straw
stank so bad? Maybe it's not the straw.

Joe



-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----

[*muffin*]

up,me

y es it is the straw that stank,, i picked it up to move it & smelled it



"joe" > wrote in message
...
> *muffin* wrote:
>
> > eeegads........
> > I cannot see the bottom,, would not be cool to walk in IT and 'step' on
> > something........... eek.
> >
> > will try to catch,, but from what someone else wrote, when he did IT IT
took
> > forever for fish to come back again.
> >
> > ,,,,,,,,,darn keyboard only some keys work,, have to cut an paste 't'
>
> Muffin,
>
> I can't find the post now, but was it you that asked if rotting barley
straw
> stank so bad? Maybe it's not the straw.
>
> Joe
>
>
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----

[[email protected]]

1. DO NOT ADD DRY PP TO ANY POND. this is how to kill the fish. make a stock
solution
http://users.megapathdsl.net/~solo/puregold/disease/treatment/trtmnt.htm#POTASSIUM
2. get the salt down to 0.1% OR get all your plants out of there
3. add the stock solution of PP in the evening, keep aeration going like crazy. if
the water turns clear before 4 hours are up, then you need to add another dose of
PP., dose 3 days in a row.
Jo Ann took a look thinks the mouth problem is columnaris and PP will kill that. The
white patch is probably some kind of parasite, the PP is good to take care of most
things.
4. your water is toxic, you have to use the newspaper suggested to get that slick
off the top and change some water. a UV is fine for getting rid of algae, but if you
arent getting rid of the nitrates with algae or plants, you gotta do something else,
like water changes. you dont say you tested for nitrates.
5. if you dont have air stones going in there, get something to aerate the pond.
the PP will react with everything organic and going to suck out the oxygen. CLEAN
THE FILTER completely every day.
dont add the melafix. who knows what the combination with PP produces.
I agree, if you dont have trees casting pollen all over the place, that crap on the
surface is coming from something rotting in there. you many have to drain to find
it. set up a cheap swimming pool and start removing all the plants sniffing them
deeply to see if there is anything rotting in them. toads and frogs spawning, BTW,
will foul a pond fast, altho that is usually a spring thing. Ingrid


"*muffin*" > wrote:
>PH : 8.3
>ammonia : 0% ( but not perfectly 0, maybe a negligible amount,, I hate these
>testers)
>Nitrite : .5%
>salt .11%
>KH hardness 11

>so I added salt & PP at a rate of 1t. per 600 gal. says to repeat in 4
>days...



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[[email protected]]

both toxic water and parasites can cause that kind of reddening AND it looks like it
is split and being eroded. Ingrid

"*muffin*" > wrote:
>did you see his tail/ It also looks flamed in the picture of number 1



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Bern Muller]

"jammer" > wrote in message
...
> On 13 Jul 2003 21:06:40 -0700, (bern) wrote:

> Excuse me, what about "excess" vegetation? I was absent that day.

Sorry. I meant an excess of "dead" vegetation.
But, of course, with an excess of live vegetation, there may also be an
excess of dead leaves, flowers, etc. to rot and foul the water. For the most
part, it is difficult to have "too many" plants. But if they are heavily
fertilized, or drop too many dead leaves, stems, seeds, etc into the water
it may lead to nutrient rich water and an algal bloom as well as possible
rot.

[*muffin*]

> wrote in message
...
> 1. DO NOT ADD DRY PP TO ANY POND. this is how to kill the fish. make a
stock
> solution

up i know that


> 2. get the salt down to 0.1% OR get all your plants out of there

it has been at .15% for over a month, so far plants are good

> 3. add the stock solution of PP in the evening, keep aeration going like
crazy. if
> the water turns clear before 4 hours are up, then you need to add another
dose of
> PP., dose 3 days in a row.

ok, koivet.com said to repeat every 3 days
what happens after 3 days, I am sure i won't clear up by then, when do I
repeat??

> Jo Ann took a look thinks the mouth problem is columnaris and PP will kill
that. The
> white patch is probably some kind of parasite, the PP is good to take care
of most
> things.

*Thanks* sooo much for asking her,, where can i see some pics or info on
columnaris??


> 4. your water is toxic, you have to use the newspaper suggested to get
that slick
> off the top and change some water. a UV is fine for getting rid of algae,
but if you
> arent getting rid of the nitrates with algae or plants, you gotta do
something else,
> like water changes. you dont say you tested for nitrates.

*i jusT ordered a nitrate test kit,,, what should it read

> 5. if you dont have air stones going in there, get something to aerate
the pond.


I have a water fall lots of water


> the PP will react with everything organic and going to suck out the
oxygen. CLEAN
> THE FILTER completely every day.

right now I will run the sand filter & turn off the bio filter/uv combo
ok???


> dont add the melafix. who knows what the combination with PP produces.


> I agree, if you dont have trees casting pollen all over the place, that
crap on the
> surface is coming from something rotting in there.

lots of trees relativel new pond & plants.
stuff on top seems less today


> it. set up a cheap swimming pool and start removing all the plants
sniffing them
> deeply to see if there is anything rotting in them. toads and frogs
spawning, BTW,
> will foul a pond fast, altho that is usually a spring thing. Ingrid

i just saw NEW batch of teeny tadpoles
>

[*muffin*]

>
> > 4. your water is toxic, you have to use the newspaper suggested to get
> that slick
> > off the top and change some water. a UV is fine for getting rid of
algae,
> but if you

just looked,, film is 95% gone, now.
but i do seem to see a lot of string algea running down m waterfall/stream
than before...



> > arent getting rid of the nitrates with algae or plants, you gotta do
> something else,
> > like water changes. you dont say you tested for nitrates.
>
> *i jusT ordered a nitrate test kit,,, what should it read
>

ok nitrate level is '0'

[*muffin*]

you think the peroxide will be gone be the next day??
why do others & koivet.com say it is 3 days



> wrote in message
...
> I dont think there is a chance in hell of the PP being in the water for
more than 24
> hours. But even if there is, use Jo Ann's method... add some peroxide and
it will
> instantly clear. the peroxide is broken down immediately by the PP and
will be gone
> by the next day for the next dose. every other day for 3 treatments.

[*muffin*]

oh,, I didn't think you answered,, do I do this for JUSt 3 treatments??

doesn't seem like they will heal in that amount of time.


...>>>PP and will be gone
> by the next day for the next dose. every other day for 3 treatments.

[RichToyBox]

muffin,

They will not heal in that amount of time. They will be rid of any
parasites that are causing problems. They will have cleaner water. Both of
these will help them heal themselves. The use of a medicated food may be
helpful. The use of KoiZyme will keep bacteria numbers down so they will
heal better. The most effective methods require catching the fish and using
a topical application of iodine, PP paste, merthiolate, or similar, and
injections. But no matter what the method of treatment, it is like a good
scrape to you. It don't go away in 5 minutes.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"*muffin*" > wrote in message
...
> oh,, I didn't think you answered,, do I do this for JUSt 3 treatments??
>
> doesn't seem like they will heal in that amount of time.
>
>
> ..>>>PP and will be gone
> > by the next day for the next dose. every other day for 3 treatments.
>
>