need help to identify eggs in pond

[Bruce]

Hello, one of my 13" koi has been looking pretty fat in the belly area.
For the last
24-36 hrs one of the other koi has been following nudging this one fat koi.
My question is, do the koi lay live fish or eggs? The reason is that
there are
a thousand 1/16" eggs stuck to my plants, pumps, some rocks and I was
wondering
what the deal was. I also have 4, 5-6" pond comets in this 700 gallon pond.
Can anyone hazard a guess?
Thanks for any info.
Oh, the fish seem to be hanging right near where the waterfall cascades on
the rocks, all side by side and facing the falls. Are they there because
I have low oxygen?
A 1/4 water change didn't seem to make a diff.
Bruce
ps, remove SPAMNOT to reply off list.

[RichToyBox]

Bruce,

Koi and goldfish both are egg layers. It sounds as if there was a spawn,
but from your post, I doubt that it was the koi. Koi usually aren't old
enough to spawn at 13". The koi would have lost most of its size during the
spawn, not gotten bigger. The female koi will look really skinny following
the egg laying. The act of spawning by koi, (I don't know about goldfish)
is very violent. The male will be pushing and shoving the female against
the sides of the pond, plant baskets or anything else, and you will think he
is trying to push her out of the pond, no simple nudging. Usually for the
first two or three days they eat the eggs as fast as they can. Between the
milt from the male, which is nearly pure protein, and the additional load of
eating, the ammonia level will go very high and burn the gills if not
treated. The fish staying under the waterfall may be showing the signs of
ammonia burns. Check the ammonia and if it is high, add amquel to bind the
ammonia into the non-toxic ammonium. Since the filter changes the ammonia
to nitrites, the nitrites will also go very high, and cause suffocation, by
causing brown blood disease. Check the nitrites and if high, add salt to
get a 0.1% salt level. Don't feed until all of the eggs are gone or
hatched, such that you don't see them. I suspect the spawn was the comets.

Good luck.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"Bruce" > wrote in message
...
> Hello, one of my 13" koi has been looking pretty fat in the belly area.
> For the last
> 24-36 hrs one of the other koi has been following nudging this one fat
koi.
> My question is, do the koi lay live fish or eggs? The reason is that
> there are
> a thousand 1/16" eggs stuck to my plants, pumps, some rocks and I was
> wondering
> what the deal was. I also have 4, 5-6" pond comets in this 700 gallon
pond.
> Can anyone hazard a guess?
> Thanks for any info.
> Oh, the fish seem to be hanging right near where the waterfall cascades on
> the rocks, all side by side and facing the falls. Are they there because
> I have low oxygen?
> A 1/4 water change didn't seem to make a diff.
> Bruce
> ps, remove SPAMNOT to reply off list.
>

[K30a]

Sticky eggs are fish eggs.
Koi and goldfish are not live bearers.

Is hanging out in the waterfall new behavior?
Has the temperature risen lately?
Do you have any water tests?
Spawning can cause water quality problems.
And it sounds like you might be over stocked.
We figure 1,000 gallons for the first koi and 100 gallons for every koi added.
Comets should have 20 gallons each.




k30a

[jammer]

Koi are bigger than 13" when they spawn? Wow.
(it's true! you do learn something new every day!)


On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 01:37:05 GMT, "RichToyBox"
> wrote:

>Bruce,
>
>Koi and goldfish both are egg layers. It sounds as if there was a spawn,
>but from your post, I doubt that it was the koi. Koi usually aren't old
>enough to spawn at 13". The koi would have lost most of its size during the
>spawn, not gotten bigger. The female koi will look really skinny following
>the egg laying. The act of spawning by koi, (I don't know about goldfish)
>is very violent. The male will be pushing and shoving the female against
>the sides of the pond, plant baskets or anything else, and you will think he
>is trying to push her out of the pond, no simple nudging. Usually for the
>first two or three days they eat the eggs as fast as they can. Between the
>milt from the male, which is nearly pure protein, and the additional load of
>eating, the ammonia level will go very high and burn the gills if not
>treated. The fish staying under the waterfall may be showing the signs of
>ammonia burns. Check the ammonia and if it is high, add amquel to bind the
>ammonia into the non-toxic ammonium. Since the filter changes the ammonia
>to nitrites, the nitrites will also go very high, and cause suffocation, by
>causing brown blood disease. Check the nitrites and if high, add salt to
>get a 0.1% salt level. Don't feed until all of the eggs are gone or
>hatched, such that you don't see them. I suspect the spawn was the comets.
>
>Good luck.

[Bruce]

Great info, a couple more things. There was much chasing and splashing by
these certain two koi. The water has gotten murky all of a sudden too.
So looking to see this koi to check if she is skinnier will have to
wait until after work today. The one koi did keep hitting the other
broadside and following.
On another note, I do have to many fish in my pond, but all has worked
fine till this( meaning clear water) I have 5, 13"-14" koi
I raised from 2-3". Also I harvested the comets down to 4 earlier in the
year
and HAD a beautiful 21" golden catfish that died the start of the
feeding season
this year and upon dissection looked like the stomack swelled up when the
tetra food expanded in the stomach and apparently blocked the intestines
cause
they were empty. The pond was made in 1998 so thats how old the fish are.
Thanks,
Bruce
I did notice they weren't eating their food!

>Bruce,
>
>Koi and goldfish both are egg layers. It sounds as if there was a spawn,
>but from your post, I doubt that it was the koi. Koi usually aren't old
>enough to spawn at 13". The koi would have lost most of its size during the
>spawn, not gotten bigger. The female koi will look really skinny following
>the egg laying. The act of spawning by koi, (I don't know about goldfish)
>is very violent. The male will be pushing and shoving the female against
>the sides of the pond, plant baskets or anything else, and you will think he
>is trying to push her out of the pond, no simple nudging. Usually for the
>first two or three days they eat the eggs as fast as they can. Between the
>milt from the male, which is nearly pure protein, and the additional load of
>eating, the ammonia level will go very high and burn the gills if not
>treated. The fish staying under the waterfall may be showing the signs of
>ammonia burns. Check the ammonia and if it is high, add amquel to bind the
>ammonia into the non-toxic ammonium. Since the filter changes the ammonia
>to nitrites, the nitrites will also go very high, and cause suffocation, by
>causing brown blood disease. Check the nitrites and if high, add salt to
>get a 0.1% salt level. Don't feed until all of the eggs are gone or
>hatched, such that you don't see them. I suspect the spawn was the comets.
>
>Good luck.
>
>

[John Rutz]

rich normaly yes a koi will be biger than 12-14 in when old enough to
spawn, but i have a couple in my pond I know are at least 3-4 yrs old
that spawned this summer and are only 7-8 in The pond I got em from
and my pond were overcrowded with goldfish and stunted them
it does happen once in a while


RichToyBox wrote:
> Bruce,
>
> Koi and goldfish both are egg layers. It sounds as if there was a spawn,
> but from your post, I doubt that it was the koi. Koi usually aren't old
> enough to spawn at 13". The koi would have lost most of its size during the
> spawn, not gotten bigger. The female koi will look really skinny following
> the egg laying. The act of spawning by koi, (I don't know about goldfish)
> is very violent. The male will be pushing and shoving the female against
> the sides of the pond, plant baskets or anything else, and you will think he
> is trying to push her out of the pond, no simple nudging. Usually for the
> first two or three days they eat the eggs as fast as they can. Between the
> milt from the male, which is nearly pure protein, and the additional load of
> eating, the ammonia level will go very high and burn the gills if not
> treated. The fish staying under the waterfall may be showing the signs of
> ammonia burns. Check the ammonia and if it is high, add amquel to bind the
> ammonia into the non-toxic ammonium. Since the filter changes the ammonia
> to nitrites, the nitrites will also go very high, and cause suffocation, by
> causing brown blood disease. Check the nitrites and if high, add salt to
> get a 0.1% salt level. Don't feed until all of the eggs are gone or
> hatched, such that you don't see them. I suspect the spawn was the comets.
>
> Good luck.


--





John Rutz
Z5 New Mexico

never miss a good oportunity to shut up

see my pond at:

http://www.fuerjefe.com

[RichToyBox]

Agreed. The qualifier was usually aren't old enough. I have seem smaller
ones spawn, but it is rare.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"John Rutz" > wrote in message
...
> rich normaly yes a koi will be biger than 12-14 in when old enough to
> spawn, but i have a couple in my pond I know are at least 3-4 yrs old
> that spawned this summer and are only 7-8 in The pond I got em from
> and my pond were overcrowded with goldfish and stunted them
> it does happen once in a while
>
>
> RichToyBox wrote:
> > Bruce,
> >
> > Koi and goldfish both are egg layers. It sounds as if there was a
spawn,
> > but from your post, I doubt that it was the koi. Koi usually aren't old
> > enough to spawn at 13". The koi would have lost most of its size during
the
> > spawn, not gotten bigger. The female koi will look really skinny
following
> > the egg laying. The act of spawning by koi, (I don't know about
goldfish)
> > is very violent. The male will be pushing and shoving the female
against
> > the sides of the pond, plant baskets or anything else, and you will
think he
> > is trying to push her out of the pond, no simple nudging. Usually for
the
> > first two or three days they eat the eggs as fast as they can. Between
the
> > milt from the male, which is nearly pure protein, and the additional
load of
> > eating, the ammonia level will go very high and burn the gills if not
> > treated. The fish staying under the waterfall may be showing the signs
of
> > ammonia burns. Check the ammonia and if it is high, add amquel to bind
the
> > ammonia into the non-toxic ammonium. Since the filter changes the
ammonia
> > to nitrites, the nitrites will also go very high, and cause suffocation,
by
> > causing brown blood disease. Check the nitrites and if high, add salt
to
> > get a 0.1% salt level. Don't feed until all of the eggs are gone or
> > hatched, such that you don't see them. I suspect the spawn was the
comets.
> >
> > Good luck.
>
>
> --
>
>
>
>
>
> John Rutz
> Z5 New Mexico
>
> never miss a good oportunity to shut up
>
> see my pond at:
>
> http://www.fuerjefe.com
>

[Bruce]

I got your post after a 35% water change and found my ammonia test
kit I never used and the test came out to 3.0," fatal for sensitive
species. Breakdown of nitrification."
Are there any home remedies(chemicals) to fix this besides amquel as we
are far
from ANY pet type shop?
Can, should I do another water change?
Thanks for your help!
Bruce

>Please run the ammonia and nitrite tests. I would bet they are off the
>scale meaning the water is toxic to the fish.
>
>

[RichToyBox]

Bruce,

If your water is not treated with chloramines, then massive water changes
will dilute the level significantly. Water treated with chloramines has
ammonia in it, so it becomes very hard to reduce the ammonia level with
water changes. If you can reduce pH to about 7.4, the ammonia becomes
non-toxic, but if your pond is like mine with a pH of around 8, it means
killing the carbonate hardness and the filter bacteria will suffer. In my
pond, it took about 3 or 4 days for the ammonia to be consumed by the
bacteria in the pond, but the nitrite spike took longer to get through.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"Bruce" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> I got your post after a 35% water change and found my ammonia test
> kit I never used and the test came out to 3.0," fatal for sensitive
> species. Breakdown of nitrification."
> Are there any home remedies(chemicals) to fix this besides amquel as we
> are far
> from ANY pet type shop?
> Can, should I do another water change?
> Thanks for your help!
> Bruce
>
> >Please run the ammonia and nitrite tests. I would bet they are off the
> >scale meaning the water is toxic to the fish.
> >
> >
>

[RichToyBox]

Your welcome. Just trying to help you help the fish.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"Bruce" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> RichToyBox,
> thanks for everything. The fish are swimming around and look normal.
> The water is clearing and that fat koi is now noticeably thinner.
> Thanks again for your help, you saved my the fish.
> Will still monitor ammonia for the next couple days.
> Massive water change did the trick for now.
> Bruce
>
> >Bruce,
> >
> >If your water is not treated with chloramines, then massive water changes
> >will dilute the level significantly. Water treated with chloramines has
> >ammonia in it, so it becomes very hard to reduce the ammonia level with
> >water changes. If you can reduce pH to about 7.4, the ammonia becomes
> >non-toxic, but if your pond is like mine with a pH of around 8, it means
> >killing the carbonate hardness and the filter bacteria will suffer. In
my
> >pond, it took about 3 or 4 days for the ammonia to be consumed by the
> >bacteria in the pond, but the nitrite spike took longer to get through.
> >
> >
>