Re: Pool vs Pond

[K30a]

Hello Chris,
Welcome to rec.ponds!
There have been some really wonderful pool to pond conversions. Somebody has
links to some websites and will probably post them for you to look at.

<< How serious of a problem will the leaves cause, if they are
allowed to fall into the pond? >>

Big problem. Decomposing leaves can feed a pea soup algae problem. Lead to all
sorts of fish problems. But not to despair.
You can make a physical barrier with netting, probably in a tent fashion or put
in a nice large skimmer.

<< Can I break up the patio and toss the rubble into the pond, or will this
make things unhealthy for the fish? >>

Don't toss the broken patio in the pool. You'll have a heck of mess gather
under the rubble. Bad for fish.

<< What will a large koi pond do to
my resale value? >>

A well designed one with ease of maintanence will attract many buyers. But not
all. Unfortunately not all folks are pondamaniacs.

Lots of research ahead of time will pay off big time in the end.
We'd love to meddle in your pond planning ;-)







k30a
yearly brother website posting
http://www.30acreimaging.com/

[K30a]

Hello Chris,
Welcome to rec.ponds!
There have been some really wonderful pool to pond conversions. Somebody has
links to some websites and will probably post them for you to look at.

<< How serious of a problem will the leaves cause, if they are
allowed to fall into the pond? >>

Big problem. Decomposing leaves can feed a pea soup algae problem. Lead to all
sorts of fish problems. But not to despair.
You can make a physical barrier with netting, probably in a tent fashion or put
in a nice large skimmer.

<< Can I break up the patio and toss the rubble into the pond, or will this
make things unhealthy for the fish? >>

Don't toss the broken patio in the pool. You'll have a heck of mess gather
under the rubble. Bad for fish.

<< What will a large koi pond do to
my resale value? >>

A well designed one with ease of maintanence will attract many buyers. But not
all. Unfortunately not all folks are pondamaniacs.

Lots of research ahead of time will pay off big time in the end.
We'd love to meddle in your pond planning ;-)







k30a
yearly brother website posting
http://www.30acreimaging.com/

[Nedra]

Here is one of the neatest conversions I have ever seen.

http://www.kilk.com/pond/index3.html Belongs to Eric
Kilk. I think he still hangs around in lurk mode...

Good Luck!

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"K30a" > wrote in message
...
> Hello Chris,
> Welcome to rec.ponds!
> There have been some really wonderful pool to pond conversions. Somebody
has
> links to some websites and will probably post them for you to look at.
>
> << How serious of a problem will the leaves cause, if they are
> allowed to fall into the pond? >>
>
> Big problem. Decomposing leaves can feed a pea soup algae problem. Lead to
all
> sorts of fish problems. But not to despair.
> You can make a physical barrier with netting, probably in a tent fashion
or put
> in a nice large skimmer.
>
> << Can I break up the patio and toss the rubble into the pond, or will
this
> make things unhealthy for the fish? >>
>
> Don't toss the broken patio in the pool. You'll have a heck of mess gather
> under the rubble. Bad for fish.
>
> << What will a large koi pond do to
> my resale value? >>
>
> A well designed one with ease of maintanence will attract many buyers. But
not
> all. Unfortunately not all folks are pondamaniacs.
>
> Lots of research ahead of time will pay off big time in the end.
> We'd love to meddle in your pond planning ;-)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> k30a
> yearly brother website posting
> http://www.30acreimaging.com/
>

[Nedra]

Here is one of the neatest conversions I have ever seen.

http://www.kilk.com/pond/index3.html Belongs to Eric
Kilk. I think he still hangs around in lurk mode...

Good Luck!

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"K30a" > wrote in message
...
> Hello Chris,
> Welcome to rec.ponds!
> There have been some really wonderful pool to pond conversions. Somebody
has
> links to some websites and will probably post them for you to look at.
>
> << How serious of a problem will the leaves cause, if they are
> allowed to fall into the pond? >>
>
> Big problem. Decomposing leaves can feed a pea soup algae problem. Lead to
all
> sorts of fish problems. But not to despair.
> You can make a physical barrier with netting, probably in a tent fashion
or put
> in a nice large skimmer.
>
> << Can I break up the patio and toss the rubble into the pond, or will
this
> make things unhealthy for the fish? >>
>
> Don't toss the broken patio in the pool. You'll have a heck of mess gather
> under the rubble. Bad for fish.
>
> << What will a large koi pond do to
> my resale value? >>
>
> A well designed one with ease of maintanence will attract many buyers. But
not
> all. Unfortunately not all folks are pondamaniacs.
>
> Lots of research ahead of time will pay off big time in the end.
> We'd love to meddle in your pond planning ;-)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> k30a
> yearly brother website posting
> http://www.30acreimaging.com/
>

[Chris Herring]

"K30a" > wrote in message
...
> Hello Chris,
> Welcome to rec.ponds!

Thanks!

> Big problem. Decomposing leaves can feed a pea soup algae problem. Lead to
all
> sorts of fish problems. But not to despair.
> You can make a physical barrier with netting, probably in a tent fashion
or put
> in a nice large skimmer.

That would be a big tent in my case (over 400 square feet). Hmm.. perhaps I
could build a pergola/deck at one end of the pond, and use that to anchor
one end of a screen. I could anchor the far end at ground level. It (the
tent) would probably be ugly, but I would only have to look at it for a
couple of months every year. I will have to think about that..
By large skimmer, you are obviously not talking in swimming pool terms.. the
pool skimmer is about 1 square foot, and holds a couple of handfuls of
leaves. So I guess I would need something that was 5-10 square feet (?)

> Don't toss the broken patio in the pool. You'll have a heck of mess gather
> under the rubble. Bad for fish.

I thought I read somewhere that it was a good idea to have a layer of rocks
or gravel in the bottom of the pond, for beneficial algae to live on? Are
you saying that in a koi pond I should leave the pond "clean"?

Chris

[Chris Herring]

"K30a" > wrote in message
...
> Hello Chris,
> Welcome to rec.ponds!

Thanks!

> Big problem. Decomposing leaves can feed a pea soup algae problem. Lead to
all
> sorts of fish problems. But not to despair.
> You can make a physical barrier with netting, probably in a tent fashion
or put
> in a nice large skimmer.

That would be a big tent in my case (over 400 square feet). Hmm.. perhaps I
could build a pergola/deck at one end of the pond, and use that to anchor
one end of a screen. I could anchor the far end at ground level. It (the
tent) would probably be ugly, but I would only have to look at it for a
couple of months every year. I will have to think about that..
By large skimmer, you are obviously not talking in swimming pool terms.. the
pool skimmer is about 1 square foot, and holds a couple of handfuls of
leaves. So I guess I would need something that was 5-10 square feet (?)

> Don't toss the broken patio in the pool. You'll have a heck of mess gather
> under the rubble. Bad for fish.

I thought I read somewhere that it was a good idea to have a layer of rocks
or gravel in the bottom of the pond, for beneficial algae to live on? Are
you saying that in a koi pond I should leave the pond "clean"?

Chris

[Chris Herring]

"Nedra" > wrote in message
arthlink.net...
> Here is one of the neatest conversions I have ever seen.
>
> http://www.kilk.com/pond/index3.html Belongs to Eric
> Kilk. I think he still hangs around in lurk mode...

I agree.. very nice pond. As a matter of fact, that's the one that started
me thinking about converting mine.

Chris

[Chris Herring]

"Nedra" > wrote in message
arthlink.net...
> Here is one of the neatest conversions I have ever seen.
>
> http://www.kilk.com/pond/index3.html Belongs to Eric
> Kilk. I think he still hangs around in lurk mode...

I agree.. very nice pond. As a matter of fact, that's the one that started
me thinking about converting mine.

Chris

[Tom La Bron]

Chris,

Some people like stones on the bottom of the pond, in fact, one pond
installer champions small rocks and stones in the ponds, but the general
consensus for the people left with the pond after the contractor leaves is
that they are a pain in the fanny. You get enough crap in your pond from
dirt in the air, junk falling in from the wind, your trees leaves, etc. And
people are correct that the stones are places for the beneficial bacteria to
live but the stones cause problems when you are trying to clean the pond and
this needs to be done at least once a year. My ponds are makeshift because
I am a renter, but I can tell you that the containers I use get plenty of
stuff in them without adding stones to the mix. It is great to siphon the
muck out of the bottom of the pond and this is assisted by the fact that
there are not stone or rocks getting caught in the end of the tubes. Around
here in Northcentral Oklahoma, most of the people have nothing in their
ponds but plants and their containers and in the late fall or early spring
there is still a lot of crap that ends up in the ponds and rocks and/or
stones are no help when it comes to cleaning. There have been people who
have went with the Aquascape technique of stones in the bottom of the ponds,
but after a while they are pulling them out and keeping them out of their
ponds. It does make for a natural looking and appealing appearance to the
pond until the stuff builds up on it.

Tom L.L.
"Chris Herring" > wrote in message
...
>
> "K30a" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hello Chris,
> > Welcome to rec.ponds!
>
> Thanks!
>
> > Big problem. Decomposing leaves can feed a pea soup algae problem. Lead
to
> all
> > sorts of fish problems. But not to despair.
> > You can make a physical barrier with netting, probably in a tent fashion
> or put
> > in a nice large skimmer.
>
> That would be a big tent in my case (over 400 square feet). Hmm.. perhaps
I
> could build a pergola/deck at one end of the pond, and use that to anchor
> one end of a screen. I could anchor the far end at ground level. It (the
> tent) would probably be ugly, but I would only have to look at it for a
> couple of months every year. I will have to think about that..
> By large skimmer, you are obviously not talking in swimming pool terms..
the
> pool skimmer is about 1 square foot, and holds a couple of handfuls of
> leaves. So I guess I would need something that was 5-10 square feet (?)
>
> > Don't toss the broken patio in the pool. You'll have a heck of mess
gather
> > under the rubble. Bad for fish.
>
> I thought I read somewhere that it was a good idea to have a layer of
rocks
> or gravel in the bottom of the pond, for beneficial algae to live on? Are
> you saying that in a koi pond I should leave the pond "clean"?
>
> Chris
>
>

[Tom La Bron]

Chris,

Some people like stones on the bottom of the pond, in fact, one pond
installer champions small rocks and stones in the ponds, but the general
consensus for the people left with the pond after the contractor leaves is
that they are a pain in the fanny. You get enough crap in your pond from
dirt in the air, junk falling in from the wind, your trees leaves, etc. And
people are correct that the stones are places for the beneficial bacteria to
live but the stones cause problems when you are trying to clean the pond and
this needs to be done at least once a year. My ponds are makeshift because
I am a renter, but I can tell you that the containers I use get plenty of
stuff in them without adding stones to the mix. It is great to siphon the
muck out of the bottom of the pond and this is assisted by the fact that
there are not stone or rocks getting caught in the end of the tubes. Around
here in Northcentral Oklahoma, most of the people have nothing in their
ponds but plants and their containers and in the late fall or early spring
there is still a lot of crap that ends up in the ponds and rocks and/or
stones are no help when it comes to cleaning. There have been people who
have went with the Aquascape technique of stones in the bottom of the ponds,
but after a while they are pulling them out and keeping them out of their
ponds. It does make for a natural looking and appealing appearance to the
pond until the stuff builds up on it.

Tom L.L.
"Chris Herring" > wrote in message
...
>
> "K30a" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hello Chris,
> > Welcome to rec.ponds!
>
> Thanks!
>
> > Big problem. Decomposing leaves can feed a pea soup algae problem. Lead
to
> all
> > sorts of fish problems. But not to despair.
> > You can make a physical barrier with netting, probably in a tent fashion
> or put
> > in a nice large skimmer.
>
> That would be a big tent in my case (over 400 square feet). Hmm.. perhaps
I
> could build a pergola/deck at one end of the pond, and use that to anchor
> one end of a screen. I could anchor the far end at ground level. It (the
> tent) would probably be ugly, but I would only have to look at it for a
> couple of months every year. I will have to think about that..
> By large skimmer, you are obviously not talking in swimming pool terms..
the
> pool skimmer is about 1 square foot, and holds a couple of handfuls of
> leaves. So I guess I would need something that was 5-10 square feet (?)
>
> > Don't toss the broken patio in the pool. You'll have a heck of mess
gather
> > under the rubble. Bad for fish.
>
> I thought I read somewhere that it was a good idea to have a layer of
rocks
> or gravel in the bottom of the pond, for beneficial algae to live on? Are
> you saying that in a koi pond I should leave the pond "clean"?
>
> Chris
>
>

[bmuller]

"Chris Herring" > wrote in message
...
> Happy Friday
>
> I have a 20,000 gallon in-ground concrete pool. I am considering
converting
> it
> into a koi pond. If I decide to do it, it will probably be next spring (if
I
> can wait that long..), so I have plenty of time to plan. Today, these are
> the issues that concern me:
>
> (1) The pool is situated under a number of deciduous trees.

As most water lillies need at least 5 hours of sun to bloom properly, you
might assess whether the tree allows this. If you are not into flowers, but
strictly fish, then the shade might be appreciated by them.

> When we bought the house, the appraiser figured the value of the pool at
> $7500. So if I removed the pool and let weeds grow there instead, I might
> lose that much when I go to sell the house. What will a large koi pond do
to
> my resale value?

Ask the appraiser in your area as it is a very local thing. Where we live in
the North, an in ground swimming pool in the backyard actually reduces the
resale value of a house.

[bmuller]

"Chris Herring" > wrote in message
...
> Happy Friday
>
> I have a 20,000 gallon in-ground concrete pool. I am considering
converting
> it
> into a koi pond. If I decide to do it, it will probably be next spring (if
I
> can wait that long..), so I have plenty of time to plan. Today, these are
> the issues that concern me:
>
> (1) The pool is situated under a number of deciduous trees.

As most water lillies need at least 5 hours of sun to bloom properly, you
might assess whether the tree allows this. If you are not into flowers, but
strictly fish, then the shade might be appreciated by them.

> When we bought the house, the appraiser figured the value of the pool at
> $7500. So if I removed the pool and let weeds grow there instead, I might
> lose that much when I go to sell the house. What will a large koi pond do
to
> my resale value?

Ask the appraiser in your area as it is a very local thing. Where we live in
the North, an in ground swimming pool in the backyard actually reduces the
resale value of a house.

[RichToyBox]

Chris,

The real estate value is dictated by the demand for particular features. A
swimming pool is valuable in certain areas of the country, and therefore
adds value. A koi pond could add the same value, or even more, but the
number of people looking for a koi pond, is probably less than the number
looking for a swimming pool, therefore, it might take longer to find the
right buyer.

A swimming pool filter system is designed for chlorinated water and minimum
debris, so it is greatly undersized for a koi pond. Look at the
modifications to the filter system. Most of the plumbing will work as
currently installed, but the bottom drain would need to be modified to
handle the leaves and other debris that will get there. The skimmer baskets
are small, but they will tend to draw the leaves by surface currents to
them, and with a large skimmer net, they can be netted from the surface
fairly easily.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"Chris Herring" > wrote in message
...
> Happy Friday
>
> I have a 20,000 gallon in-ground concrete pool. I am considering
converting
> it
> into a koi pond. If I decide to do it, it will probably be next spring (if
I
> can wait that long..), so I have plenty of time to plan. Today, these are
> the issues that concern me:
>
> (1) The pool is situated under a number of deciduous trees. As a swimming
> pool, it gets covered in the fall, so keeping leaves out of the pool is
not
> an issue. How serious of a problem will the leaves cause, if they are
> allowed to fall into the pond? I assume that I can't simply let them
> decompose in the pond, as this would upset the ecosystem. So I would need
to
> remove them.. how hard will it be to remove (seems like about a million)
> leaves a day for a couple months? Anyone else have a large pond under oak
> trees? How do you deal with it?
>
> (2) The pool is surrounded by a concrete patio, which I am not fond of.
> Can I break up the patio and toss the rubble into the pond, or will this
> make things unhealthy for the fish? The concrete is over 10 years old.
>
> (3) Does anyone have a sense of how a pond (especially one that takes up a
> significant portion of the sqaure footage of the lot) impacts resale
value?
> When we bought the house, the appraiser figured the value of the pool at
> $7500. So if I removed the pool and let weeds grow there instead, I might
> lose that much when I go to sell the house. What will a large koi pond do
to
> my resale value?
>
> Regards,
>
> Chris Herring
> 20,000 gallon frog killer :(
>
>
>

[RichToyBox]

Chris,

The real estate value is dictated by the demand for particular features. A
swimming pool is valuable in certain areas of the country, and therefore
adds value. A koi pond could add the same value, or even more, but the
number of people looking for a koi pond, is probably less than the number
looking for a swimming pool, therefore, it might take longer to find the
right buyer.

A swimming pool filter system is designed for chlorinated water and minimum
debris, so it is greatly undersized for a koi pond. Look at the
modifications to the filter system. Most of the plumbing will work as
currently installed, but the bottom drain would need to be modified to
handle the leaves and other debris that will get there. The skimmer baskets
are small, but they will tend to draw the leaves by surface currents to
them, and with a large skimmer net, they can be netted from the surface
fairly easily.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"Chris Herring" > wrote in message
...
> Happy Friday
>
> I have a 20,000 gallon in-ground concrete pool. I am considering
converting
> it
> into a koi pond. If I decide to do it, it will probably be next spring (if
I
> can wait that long..), so I have plenty of time to plan. Today, these are
> the issues that concern me:
>
> (1) The pool is situated under a number of deciduous trees. As a swimming
> pool, it gets covered in the fall, so keeping leaves out of the pool is
not
> an issue. How serious of a problem will the leaves cause, if they are
> allowed to fall into the pond? I assume that I can't simply let them
> decompose in the pond, as this would upset the ecosystem. So I would need
to
> remove them.. how hard will it be to remove (seems like about a million)
> leaves a day for a couple months? Anyone else have a large pond under oak
> trees? How do you deal with it?
>
> (2) The pool is surrounded by a concrete patio, which I am not fond of.
> Can I break up the patio and toss the rubble into the pond, or will this
> make things unhealthy for the fish? The concrete is over 10 years old.
>
> (3) Does anyone have a sense of how a pond (especially one that takes up a
> significant portion of the sqaure footage of the lot) impacts resale
value?
> When we bought the house, the appraiser figured the value of the pool at
> $7500. So if I removed the pool and let weeds grow there instead, I might
> lose that much when I go to sell the house. What will a large koi pond do
to
> my resale value?
>
> Regards,
>
> Chris Herring
> 20,000 gallon frog killer :(
>
>
>

[joe]

RichToyBox wrote:

> (3) Does anyone have a sense of how a pond (especially one that takes up a
> significant portion of the sqaure footage of the lot) impacts resale
> value?

I don't know that a pool adds any value. If I were looking for a house and
it had a pool, I would consider it a liability. On the other hand, if I had
young kids I might think it was useful to have. A pond might limit the
number of people who would consider buying your home in the future -
especially a 20,000 gallon pond. But if the right PORG came along, they
might be willing to pay extra!

Joe



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[joe]

RichToyBox wrote:

> (3) Does anyone have a sense of how a pond (especially one that takes up a
> significant portion of the sqaure footage of the lot) impacts resale
> value?

I don't know that a pool adds any value. If I were looking for a house and
it had a pool, I would consider it a liability. On the other hand, if I had
young kids I might think it was useful to have. A pond might limit the
number of people who would consider buying your home in the future -
especially a 20,000 gallon pond. But if the right PORG came along, they
might be willing to pay extra!

Joe



-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----

[zookeeper]

Chris Herring wrote:
> ...
> (1) The pool is situated under a number of deciduous trees ...

We use three big nets made from shade fabric (available at Home Depot,
etc.) supported by pvc pipes (nets have "pockets" sewn into each edge
and pipe runs through those pockets and is joined with PVC joints at
each corner and in center of two opposing sides for support). The leaves
can be dumped or blown off the nets. We also use these nets in the
spring for shading the pond as the sun begins to encourage the pea green
algae to grow.

> (2) The pool is surrounded by a concrete patio ...

Use the concrete rubble to build up a waterfall area? turn it over and
make stepping stones around pond? build up a wall area at one end of
pond to support a second pond? lots of different ways to reuse this
material.

Sounds like a great project -- can't wait to see your progress next
spring. (P.S. while are you the "frog killer"?)
--
Kathy B, zookeeper
3500gal pond, 13 pond piggies
Oregon, Zone 6

[zookeeper]

Chris Herring wrote:
> ...
> (1) The pool is situated under a number of deciduous trees ...

We use three big nets made from shade fabric (available at Home Depot,
etc.) supported by pvc pipes (nets have "pockets" sewn into each edge
and pipe runs through those pockets and is joined with PVC joints at
each corner and in center of two opposing sides for support). The leaves
can be dumped or blown off the nets. We also use these nets in the
spring for shading the pond as the sun begins to encourage the pea green
algae to grow.

> (2) The pool is surrounded by a concrete patio ...

Use the concrete rubble to build up a waterfall area? turn it over and
make stepping stones around pond? build up a wall area at one end of
pond to support a second pond? lots of different ways to reuse this
material.

Sounds like a great project -- can't wait to see your progress next
spring. (P.S. while are you the "frog killer"?)
--
Kathy B, zookeeper
3500gal pond, 13 pond piggies
Oregon, Zone 6

[dkat]

I also would not put concrete in the pond. I have recently seen broken
concrete used to make all sorts of things that look surprisingly good.
Stack the pieces as you would stone to make planters or a stone wall or a
bench. You can use them to make a water feature by stacking them and
turning them into a "waterfall" (without pond). They would quickly be
covered with moss and whatever water loving plants you want to add. Break it
up, turn it over and space them so that there is enough room between pieces
to grow ground cover plants. It looks more natural and interesting. Use
the broken up pieces (again turned upside down) for stepping stones around
the yard and garden.

We told our realtor that we did NOT want a house with a pool and I would
have loved to have one with a pond.... Your problem is finding the right
buyer. The problem is what is the probability of one over the other and
whether it is a buyer's or seller's market. Oh, and taking out the pond may
decrease your taxes... You might want to check on that. DK

"K30a" > wrote in message
...
> Hello Chris,
> Welcome to rec.ponds!
> There have been some really wonderful pool to pond conversions. Somebody
has
> links to some websites and will probably post them for you to look at.
>
> << How serious of a problem will the leaves cause, if they are
> allowed to fall into the pond? >>
>
> Big problem. Decomposing leaves can feed a pea soup algae problem. Lead to
all
> sorts of fish problems. But not to despair.
> You can make a physical barrier with netting, probably in a tent fashion
or put
> in a nice large skimmer.
>
> << Can I break up the patio and toss the rubble into the pond, or will
this
> make things unhealthy for the fish? >>
>
> Don't toss the broken patio in the pool. You'll have a heck of mess gather
> under the rubble. Bad for fish.
>
> << What will a large koi pond do to
> my resale value? >>
>
> A well designed one with ease of maintanence will attract many buyers. But
not
> all. Unfortunately not all folks are pondamaniacs.
>
> Lots of research ahead of time will pay off big time in the end.
> We'd love to meddle in your pond planning ;-)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> k30a
> yearly brother website posting
> http://www.30acreimaging.com/

[dkat]

I also would not put concrete in the pond. I have recently seen broken
concrete used to make all sorts of things that look surprisingly good.
Stack the pieces as you would stone to make planters or a stone wall or a
bench. You can use them to make a water feature by stacking them and
turning them into a "waterfall" (without pond). They would quickly be
covered with moss and whatever water loving plants you want to add. Break it
up, turn it over and space them so that there is enough room between pieces
to grow ground cover plants. It looks more natural and interesting. Use
the broken up pieces (again turned upside down) for stepping stones around
the yard and garden.

We told our realtor that we did NOT want a house with a pool and I would
have loved to have one with a pond.... Your problem is finding the right
buyer. The problem is what is the probability of one over the other and
whether it is a buyer's or seller's market. Oh, and taking out the pond may
decrease your taxes... You might want to check on that. DK

"K30a" > wrote in message
...
> Hello Chris,
> Welcome to rec.ponds!
> There have been some really wonderful pool to pond conversions. Somebody
has
> links to some websites and will probably post them for you to look at.
>
> << How serious of a problem will the leaves cause, if they are
> allowed to fall into the pond? >>
>
> Big problem. Decomposing leaves can feed a pea soup algae problem. Lead to
all
> sorts of fish problems. But not to despair.
> You can make a physical barrier with netting, probably in a tent fashion
or put
> in a nice large skimmer.
>
> << Can I break up the patio and toss the rubble into the pond, or will
this
> make things unhealthy for the fish? >>
>
> Don't toss the broken patio in the pool. You'll have a heck of mess gather
> under the rubble. Bad for fish.
>
> << What will a large koi pond do to
> my resale value? >>
>
> A well designed one with ease of maintanence will attract many buyers. But
not
> all. Unfortunately not all folks are pondamaniacs.
>
> Lots of research ahead of time will pay off big time in the end.
> We'd love to meddle in your pond planning ;-)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> k30a
> yearly brother website posting
> http://www.30acreimaging.com/

[Chris Herring]

"zookeeper" > wrote in message
...

> Use the concrete rubble to build up a waterfall area? turn it over and
> make stepping stones around pond? build up a wall area at one end of
> pond to support a second pond? lots of different ways to reuse this
> material.

Those are good ideas.. I especially like the stepping stone idea.

> (P.S. while are you the "frog killer"?)

Once or twice a week I find a dead frog at the bottom of the pool. They
wander in for a swim but quickly succumb to the chlorine. Poor guys..

Chris

[Chris Herring]

"zookeeper" > wrote in message
...

> Use the concrete rubble to build up a waterfall area? turn it over and
> make stepping stones around pond? build up a wall area at one end of
> pond to support a second pond? lots of different ways to reuse this
> material.

Those are good ideas.. I especially like the stepping stone idea.

> (P.S. while are you the "frog killer"?)

Once or twice a week I find a dead frog at the bottom of the pool. They
wander in for a swim but quickly succumb to the chlorine. Poor guys..

Chris

[Chris Herring]

"RichToyBox" > wrote in message
news:AgyUa.133952$OZ2.26027@rwcrnsc54...

> A swimming pool filter system is designed for chlorinated water and
minimum
> debris, so it is greatly undersized for a koi pond. Look at the
> modifications to the filter system.

I think I will sell the sand filter and build a more appropriate filter.

> ... Most of the plumbing will work as
> currently installed,

I wonder if the koi would get along with my Polaris pool-vac "robot" :)

Chris

[Chris Herring]

"RichToyBox" > wrote in message
news:AgyUa.133952$OZ2.26027@rwcrnsc54...

> A swimming pool filter system is designed for chlorinated water and
minimum
> debris, so it is greatly undersized for a koi pond. Look at the
> modifications to the filter system.

I think I will sell the sand filter and build a more appropriate filter.

> ... Most of the plumbing will work as
> currently installed,

I wonder if the koi would get along with my Polaris pool-vac "robot" :)

Chris

[Chris Herring]

"Lee Brouillet" > wrote in message
...
> ACK!!!!!

:)

> <snip> Now all you need is an anti-vortex cover,

I'm not famliar with this.. can you elaborate?

My wife and I are really getting excited about this project.. we can't wait
to get started!!

Chris

[Chris Herring]

"Lee Brouillet" > wrote in message
...
> ACK!!!!!

:)

> <snip> Now all you need is an anti-vortex cover,

I'm not famliar with this.. can you elaborate?

My wife and I are really getting excited about this project.. we can't wait
to get started!!

Chris

[Lee Brouillet]

OK, your pool probably has a grate over the bottom drain to keep little (and
not so little) hands from getting caught in it. But it essentially draws the
water from straight overhead. When you make an antivortex cover, you get a
dome that sits on little legs, usually only 1/2" or so from the bottom. That
forces the suction to pull from a very limited area, literally sucking the
surrounding area, instead of just the water column overhead. Because the
drains are usually in the lowest section of the pool, it pulls the crud that
settles on the bottom to the drain. Now, if you put an air dome on it, you
literally change the barometric pressure on the bottom; the rising air
bubbles assist in pulling the crud to the drain. And the air bubbles add
extra oxygen to the water and give the koi additional play areas. If you
were to dig a pond and install one of these gizmos in your pond, it would
look like this: http://tinyurl.com/ib1j . But you can make one a WHOLE lot
cheaper! I use a 16" terracotta clay bowl; it has a 1" drain hole in the
bottom. I purchased a membrane air diffuser http://tinyurl.com/ib2c , which
conveniently has a 3/4" stem on it, which (conveniently!) just fits into the
1" hole in the bowl. Use appropriate PVC step downs, put on the airhose,
hook it up and VIOLA! air dome! I made a little "table" of 1/2 pvc to rest
the bowl on, to keep it at the appropriate height off the bottom. So you end
up with a little UFO looking thing with a buncha bubbles coming out of it
sitting in the bottom of your pond. The algae covers it nicely in a few
weeks, and the air pressure keeps the disk from ever getting fouled. And
it's heavy enough that the koi can't knock it over.

Lee

"Chris Herring" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Lee Brouillet" > wrote in message
> ...
> > ACK!!!!!
>
> :)
>
> > <snip> Now all you need is an anti-vortex cover,
>
> I'm not famliar with this.. can you elaborate?
>
> My wife and I are really getting excited about this project.. we can't
wait
> to get started!!
>
> Chris
>
>

[Lee Brouillet]

OK, your pool probably has a grate over the bottom drain to keep little (and
not so little) hands from getting caught in it. But it essentially draws the
water from straight overhead. When you make an antivortex cover, you get a
dome that sits on little legs, usually only 1/2" or so from the bottom. That
forces the suction to pull from a very limited area, literally sucking the
surrounding area, instead of just the water column overhead. Because the
drains are usually in the lowest section of the pool, it pulls the crud that
settles on the bottom to the drain. Now, if you put an air dome on it, you
literally change the barometric pressure on the bottom; the rising air
bubbles assist in pulling the crud to the drain. And the air bubbles add
extra oxygen to the water and give the koi additional play areas. If you
were to dig a pond and install one of these gizmos in your pond, it would
look like this: http://tinyurl.com/ib1j . But you can make one a WHOLE lot
cheaper! I use a 16" terracotta clay bowl; it has a 1" drain hole in the
bottom. I purchased a membrane air diffuser http://tinyurl.com/ib2c , which
conveniently has a 3/4" stem on it, which (conveniently!) just fits into the
1" hole in the bowl. Use appropriate PVC step downs, put on the airhose,
hook it up and VIOLA! air dome! I made a little "table" of 1/2 pvc to rest
the bowl on, to keep it at the appropriate height off the bottom. So you end
up with a little UFO looking thing with a buncha bubbles coming out of it
sitting in the bottom of your pond. The algae covers it nicely in a few
weeks, and the air pressure keeps the disk from ever getting fouled. And
it's heavy enough that the koi can't knock it over.

Lee

"Chris Herring" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Lee Brouillet" > wrote in message
> ...
> > ACK!!!!!
>
> :)
>
> > <snip> Now all you need is an anti-vortex cover,
>
> I'm not famliar with this.. can you elaborate?
>
> My wife and I are really getting excited about this project.. we can't
wait
> to get started!!
>
> Chris
>
>

[Chris Herring]

"Lee Brouillet" > wrote in message
...
> OK, your pool probably has a grate over the bottom drain to keep little
(and
> not so little) hands from getting caught in it. But it essentially draws
the
> water from straight overhead. When you make an antivortex cover, you get a
> dome that sits on little legs, usually only 1/2" or so from the bottom.
That
> forces the suction to pull from a very limited area, literally sucking the
> surrounding area, instead of just the water column overhead. Because the
> drains are usually in the lowest section of the pool, it pulls the crud
that
> settles on the bottom to the drain. Now, if you put an air dome on it,
you
> literally change the barometric pressure on the bottom; the rising air
> bubbles assist in pulling the crud to the drain. And the air bubbles add
> extra oxygen to the water and give the koi additional play areas. If you
> were to dig a pond and install one of these gizmos in your pond, it would
> look like this: http://tinyurl.com/ib1j . But you can make one a WHOLE
lot
> cheaper! I use a 16" terracotta clay bowl; it has a 1" drain hole in the
> bottom. I purchased a membrane air diffuser http://tinyurl.com/ib2c ,
which
> conveniently has a 3/4" stem on it, which (conveniently!) just fits into
the
> 1" hole in the bowl. Use appropriate PVC step downs, put on the airhose,
> hook it up and VIOLA! air dome! I made a little "table" of 1/2 pvc to rest
> the bowl on, to keep it at the appropriate height off the bottom. So you
end
> up with a little UFO looking thing with a buncha bubbles coming out of it
> sitting in the bottom of your pond. The algae covers it nicely in a few
> weeks, and the air pressure keeps the disk from ever getting fouled. And
> it's heavy enough that the koi can't knock it over.

Thanks for the explanation... I will add this to my plans!

Chris

[Chris Herring]

"Lee Brouillet" > wrote in message
...
> OK, your pool probably has a grate over the bottom drain to keep little
(and
> not so little) hands from getting caught in it. But it essentially draws
the
> water from straight overhead. When you make an antivortex cover, you get a
> dome that sits on little legs, usually only 1/2" or so from the bottom.
That
> forces the suction to pull from a very limited area, literally sucking the
> surrounding area, instead of just the water column overhead. Because the
> drains are usually in the lowest section of the pool, it pulls the crud
that
> settles on the bottom to the drain. Now, if you put an air dome on it,
you
> literally change the barometric pressure on the bottom; the rising air
> bubbles assist in pulling the crud to the drain. And the air bubbles add
> extra oxygen to the water and give the koi additional play areas. If you
> were to dig a pond and install one of these gizmos in your pond, it would
> look like this: http://tinyurl.com/ib1j . But you can make one a WHOLE
lot
> cheaper! I use a 16" terracotta clay bowl; it has a 1" drain hole in the
> bottom. I purchased a membrane air diffuser http://tinyurl.com/ib2c ,
which
> conveniently has a 3/4" stem on it, which (conveniently!) just fits into
the
> 1" hole in the bowl. Use appropriate PVC step downs, put on the airhose,
> hook it up and VIOLA! air dome! I made a little "table" of 1/2 pvc to rest
> the bowl on, to keep it at the appropriate height off the bottom. So you
end
> up with a little UFO looking thing with a buncha bubbles coming out of it
> sitting in the bottom of your pond. The algae covers it nicely in a few
> weeks, and the air pressure keeps the disk from ever getting fouled. And
> it's heavy enough that the koi can't knock it over.

Thanks for the explanation... I will add this to my plans!

Chris

[Lee Brouillet]

<snip>
"Kevin Carbis" > wrote in message
om...
> Good luck, building a Koi pond is a blast, you'll have fun. In some
> ways I'm sad mine is "finished".

You can come help me with mine! I hate to see an unhappy ponder . . . <G>

Lee

[Lee Brouillet]

<snip>
"Kevin Carbis" > wrote in message
om...
> Good luck, building a Koi pond is a blast, you'll have fun. In some
> ways I'm sad mine is "finished".

You can come help me with mine! I hate to see an unhappy ponder . . . <G>

Lee

[Chris Herring]

"Kevin Carbis" > wrote in message
om...

> <snip>
> If your current skimmer is a typical pool skimmer, it is not "fish
> safe". Any medium or smaller Koi could easily get caught in my pool
> skimmer. I believe there are retrofit kits, if not it wouldn't be too
> difficult to fashion an adapter to go with a no-niche or similar fish
> safe skimmer.

I am planning to remove the existing skimmer, along with the coping and all
of the surrounding concrete slabs. So I will have an opportunity to build an
appropriate skimmer. Not sure what it's going to look like yet..

> The other problem I would have converting my pool is the plumbing, the
> pipe coming from the pool to my pump is 1 and 1/2" copper. I doubt
> that would work well for a Koi pond but I'm not sure. I know you
> would starve a large pump with pipe that small. If you have 2" or
> bigger PVC you should be golden.

The bottom drain is plumbed with 1.5" PVC. How do I decide if that will be
adequate?

> One last thing, you mentioned dead frogs. Keep in mind, once you've
> established your pond, those frogs won't die and they will multiply
> quickly. I've got a buddy who built a pond and what he has now is a
> frog pond. It's so loud out there he has to close the patio door to
> talk on the phone. :)

It seems like most ponds eventually attract frogs.. I'm not too worried
about it.. I should probably be more worried about my relationship with my
neighbors!

> Good luck, building a Koi pond is a blast, you'll have fun. In some
> ways I'm sad mine is "finished".

I have been reading this NG for a couple of weeks, and that's the first time
I've heard the "f" word :)

Chris

[Chris Herring]

"Kevin Carbis" > wrote in message
om...

> <snip>
> If your current skimmer is a typical pool skimmer, it is not "fish
> safe". Any medium or smaller Koi could easily get caught in my pool
> skimmer. I believe there are retrofit kits, if not it wouldn't be too
> difficult to fashion an adapter to go with a no-niche or similar fish
> safe skimmer.

I am planning to remove the existing skimmer, along with the coping and all
of the surrounding concrete slabs. So I will have an opportunity to build an
appropriate skimmer. Not sure what it's going to look like yet..

> The other problem I would have converting my pool is the plumbing, the
> pipe coming from the pool to my pump is 1 and 1/2" copper. I doubt
> that would work well for a Koi pond but I'm not sure. I know you
> would starve a large pump with pipe that small. If you have 2" or
> bigger PVC you should be golden.

The bottom drain is plumbed with 1.5" PVC. How do I decide if that will be
adequate?

> One last thing, you mentioned dead frogs. Keep in mind, once you've
> established your pond, those frogs won't die and they will multiply
> quickly. I've got a buddy who built a pond and what he has now is a
> frog pond. It's so loud out there he has to close the patio door to
> talk on the phone. :)

It seems like most ponds eventually attract frogs.. I'm not too worried
about it.. I should probably be more worried about my relationship with my
neighbors!

> Good luck, building a Koi pond is a blast, you'll have fun. In some
> ways I'm sad mine is "finished".

I have been reading this NG for a couple of weeks, and that's the first time
I've heard the "f" word :)

Chris

[johnrutz]

Chris Herring wrote:
> "Kevin Carbis" > wrote in message
> om...
>
>
>>Good luck, building a Koi pond is a blast, you'll have fun. In some
>>ways I'm sad mine is "finished".
>
>
> I have been reading this NG for a couple of weeks, and that's the first time
> I've heard the "f" word :)
>
> Chris
>
>


-- thats cause he's in denial right now he'll be fidlin prety quick





John Rutz
Z5 New Mexico

never miss a good oportunity to shut up

see my pond at:

http://www.fuerjefe.com

[johnrutz]

Chris Herring wrote:
> "Kevin Carbis" > wrote in message
> om...
>
>
>>Good luck, building a Koi pond is a blast, you'll have fun. In some
>>ways I'm sad mine is "finished".
>
>
> I have been reading this NG for a couple of weeks, and that's the first time
> I've heard the "f" word :)
>
> Chris
>
>


-- thats cause he's in denial right now he'll be fidlin prety quick





John Rutz
Z5 New Mexico

never miss a good oportunity to shut up

see my pond at:

http://www.fuerjefe.com

[Lee Brouillet]

Ooooooh . . . a bottom drain is "ideally" 4 inches, but shouldn't be less
than 3 inches. That's so it can routinely draw leaves and other stuff that
make it to the bottom to the filters. But not to worry, if necessary, we can
jerry-rig retro-fit bottom drains!

Lee

"Chris Herring" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Kevin Carbis" > wrote in message
> om...
>
> > <snip>
> > If your current skimmer is a typical pool skimmer, it is not "fish
> > safe". Any medium or smaller Koi could easily get caught in my pool
> > skimmer. I believe there are retrofit kits, if not it wouldn't be too
> > difficult to fashion an adapter to go with a no-niche or similar fish
> > safe skimmer.
>
> I am planning to remove the existing skimmer, along with the coping and
all
> of the surrounding concrete slabs. So I will have an opportunity to build
an
> appropriate skimmer. Not sure what it's going to look like yet..
>
> > The other problem I would have converting my pool is the plumbing, the
> > pipe coming from the pool to my pump is 1 and 1/2" copper. I doubt
> > that would work well for a Koi pond but I'm not sure. I know you
> > would starve a large pump with pipe that small. If you have 2" or
> > bigger PVC you should be golden.
>
> The bottom drain is plumbed with 1.5" PVC. How do I decide if that will be
> adequate?
>
> > One last thing, you mentioned dead frogs. Keep in mind, once you've
> > established your pond, those frogs won't die and they will multiply
> > quickly. I've got a buddy who built a pond and what he has now is a
> > frog pond. It's so loud out there he has to close the patio door to
> > talk on the phone. :)
>
> It seems like most ponds eventually attract frogs.. I'm not too worried
> about it.. I should probably be more worried about my relationship with my
> neighbors!
>
> > Good luck, building a Koi pond is a blast, you'll have fun. In some
> > ways I'm sad mine is "finished".
>
> I have been reading this NG for a couple of weeks, and that's the first
time
> I've heard the "f" word :)
>
> Chris
>
>

[Lee Brouillet]

Ooooooh . . . a bottom drain is "ideally" 4 inches, but shouldn't be less
than 3 inches. That's so it can routinely draw leaves and other stuff that
make it to the bottom to the filters. But not to worry, if necessary, we can
jerry-rig retro-fit bottom drains!

Lee

"Chris Herring" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Kevin Carbis" > wrote in message
> om...
>
> > <snip>
> > If your current skimmer is a typical pool skimmer, it is not "fish
> > safe". Any medium or smaller Koi could easily get caught in my pool
> > skimmer. I believe there are retrofit kits, if not it wouldn't be too
> > difficult to fashion an adapter to go with a no-niche or similar fish
> > safe skimmer.
>
> I am planning to remove the existing skimmer, along with the coping and
all
> of the surrounding concrete slabs. So I will have an opportunity to build
an
> appropriate skimmer. Not sure what it's going to look like yet..
>
> > The other problem I would have converting my pool is the plumbing, the
> > pipe coming from the pool to my pump is 1 and 1/2" copper. I doubt
> > that would work well for a Koi pond but I'm not sure. I know you
> > would starve a large pump with pipe that small. If you have 2" or
> > bigger PVC you should be golden.
>
> The bottom drain is plumbed with 1.5" PVC. How do I decide if that will be
> adequate?
>
> > One last thing, you mentioned dead frogs. Keep in mind, once you've
> > established your pond, those frogs won't die and they will multiply
> > quickly. I've got a buddy who built a pond and what he has now is a
> > frog pond. It's so loud out there he has to close the patio door to
> > talk on the phone. :)
>
> It seems like most ponds eventually attract frogs.. I'm not too worried
> about it.. I should probably be more worried about my relationship with my
> neighbors!
>
> > Good luck, building a Koi pond is a blast, you'll have fun. In some
> > ways I'm sad mine is "finished".
>
> I have been reading this NG for a couple of weeks, and that's the first
time
> I've heard the "f" word :)
>
> Chris
>
>

[BenignVanilla]

"Lee Brouillet" > wrote in message
...
> OK, your pool probably has a grate over the bottom drain to keep little
(and
> not so little) hands from getting caught in it. But it essentially draws
the
> water from straight overhead. When you make an antivortex cover, you get a
> dome that sits on little legs, usually only 1/2" or so from the bottom.
<snip>

I need to install mine. I have been running my BD sans diffuser so far, but
I watched a koi get sucked into the drain yesterday. He was able to get out,
but I need that diffuser in place. Time to go scuba.

[BenignVanilla]

"Kevin Carbis" > wrote in message
om...
> Chris asked:
>
> > The bottom drain is plumbed with 1.5" PVC. How do I decide if that will
be
> > adequate?
>
> Depending on who you talk to ( or argue with ), you'll want to turn
> your water over once every hour or two. In your case, thats a lot of
> water. My 1/4 horse pump is rated to push about 4,000 gallons per
> hour so I'm turning the water over almost once an hour in my 5,000
> gallon pond. In your case you'll need to push at least 10,000 GPH I'd
> think. In looking to replace my pool pump I learned that anything
> over about 1 horse will be starved by the small 1 and 1/2 inch pipe
> that feeds my pump. You may be fine, if not there are workarounds,
> you could run the bottom drain and skimmer on seperate pumps for
> example. Then with two 1/4 horse pumps like mine you'd be turing the
> water over about once every two hours which should be adequate if you
> don't overstock your pond.

I am not speaking from any platform of knowledge, but I'd think that with a
body of water so large, if planted nicely, and not stocked to the max, he
could easily get along with a lower turn over rate.

BV.

[Lee Brouillet]

BV, if I had the *slightest* idea of how to explain barometric pressure, I
would. Unfortunately, I can't. But maybe someone else can . . . How it works
is something else: as the bubbles rise, they displace the water. New water
moves in to replace the air bubbles, and pulls the "stuff" with it, drawing
it more towards the drain. The oxygen benefits of the air diffuser is pretty
much self explanatory. Folks that had regular covered bottom drains and
upgraded to the "air domes" swear by them.

Lee

"BenignVanilla" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Lee Brouillet" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Now, if you put an air dome on it, you
> > literally change the barometric pressure on the bottom; the rising air
> > bubbles assist in pulling the crud to the drain. And the air bubbles add
> > extra oxygen to the water and give the koi additional play areas.
>
> I am still baffled by the air bubble thing. Can you explain further?
>
> BV.
>
>

[BenignVanilla]

"Lee Brouillet" > wrote in message
...
> BV, if I had the *slightest* idea of how to explain barometric pressure, I
> would. Unfortunately, I can't. But maybe someone else can . . . How it
works
> is something else: as the bubbles rise, they displace the water. New water
> moves in to replace the air bubbles, and pulls the "stuff" with it,
drawing
> it more towards the drain. The oxygen benefits of the air diffuser is
pretty
> much self explanatory. Folks that had regular covered bottom drains and
> upgraded to the "air domes" swear by them.
<snip>

So the bubbles don't go into the drain, they surface above it. That makes
sense...not sure I want my pond constantly bubbling though.

BV.

[Lee Brouillet]

The constant bubbles are what makes it GOOD! Extra O2, keeps your pond
ice-free, fishies like to swim through them . . . FWIW, if it disturbs the
surface too much when you want to watch them, get one of those remote
control switches (I have a slew of them I use for outside Christmas lights)
and plug your air pump into one. Then you can just flick a switch to turn it
off/on for viewing ease.

Lee

"BenignVanilla" > wrote in message
...
> "Lee Brouillet" > wrote in message
> ...
> > BV, if I had the *slightest* idea of how to explain barometric pressure,
I
> > would. Unfortunately, I can't. But maybe someone else can . . . How it
> works
> > is something else: as the bubbles rise, they displace the water. New
water
> > moves in to replace the air bubbles, and pulls the "stuff" with it,
> drawing
> > it more towards the drain. The oxygen benefits of the air diffuser is
> pretty
> > much self explanatory. Folks that had regular covered bottom drains and
> > upgraded to the "air domes" swear by them.
> <snip>
>
> So the bubbles don't go into the drain, they surface above it. That makes
> sense...not sure I want my pond constantly bubbling though.
>
> BV.
>
>