Whats wrong with this goldfish

[Jason Mann]

Hi folks,

These are photos of one of my girlfriends two goldfish:

http://www.b0rken.org/~jason/fish1.jpg
http://www.b0rken.org/~jason/fish2.jpg
http://www.b0rken.org/~jason/fish3.jpg

As you can see, he has black markings just above his mouth and around his
gills.

The little "moustache" marking has been there about a week. I initially
thought it was bruising from where he likes to swim into the side of the
tank, but over the last 2-3 days, the gill markings have appeared too. The
black marks around his eyes have always been there.

He doesn't seem distressed in anyway, and still eats like the a glutton.

The other fish is unaffected.

They have recently been moved into a new tank, which is much larger and
cleaner than their old one. That was 3 weeks ago.

Can anyone tell me what those markings might be, and if it is an ailment of
some kind, how to treat it?

Many thanks,

Jason

[WILLIAM DAVIS]

My goldfish had black around his mouth. I put him in q-tank and added
melafix in little over a week the black went away.


Patty










"Jason Mann" > wrote in message
...
> Hi folks,
>
> These are photos of one of my girlfriends two goldfish:
>
> http://www.b0rken.org/~jason/fish1.jpg
> http://www.b0rken.org/~jason/fish2.jpg
> http://www.b0rken.org/~jason/fish3.jpg
>
> As you can see, he has black markings just above his mouth and around his
> gills.
>
> The little "moustache" marking has been there about a week. I initially
> thought it was bruising from where he likes to swim into the side of the
> tank, but over the last 2-3 days, the gill markings have appeared too. The
> black marks around his eyes have always been there.
>
> He doesn't seem distressed in anyway, and still eats like the a glutton.
>
> The other fish is unaffected.
>
> They have recently been moved into a new tank, which is much larger and
> cleaner than their old one. That was 3 weeks ago.
>
> Can anyone tell me what those markings might be, and if it is an ailment
of
> some kind, how to treat it?
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Jason
>
>

[Mel]

The black marks are ammonia or nitrite burns. Do an immediate 30% water
change to help relieve the irritation to the fish.
Your tank is still cycling and during this time the ammonia and nitrite
levels spike to toxic levels. Your tank is only cycled when your ammonia and
nitrite are at 0 and your nitrate is over 0 but preferably under 20. While
this is all going on it is important to test your water often (everyday is
best) to monitor the levels. it is also often necessary to carry out a water
change daily to dilute the ammonia and nitrite so making it less harmful to
your fish.
Mel.

"Jason Mann" > wrote in message
...
> Hi folks,
>
> These are photos of one of my girlfriends two goldfish:
>
> http://www.b0rken.org/~jason/fish1.jpg
> http://www.b0rken.org/~jason/fish2.jpg
> http://www.b0rken.org/~jason/fish3.jpg
>
> As you can see, he has black markings just above his mouth and around his
> gills.
>
> The little "moustache" marking has been there about a week. I initially
> thought it was bruising from where he likes to swim into the side of the
> tank, but over the last 2-3 days, the gill markings have appeared too. The
> black marks around his eyes have always been there.
>
> He doesn't seem distressed in anyway, and still eats like the a glutton.
>
> The other fish is unaffected.
>
> They have recently been moved into a new tank, which is much larger and
> cleaner than their old one. That was 3 weeks ago.
>
> Can anyone tell me what those markings might be, and if it is an ailment
of
> some kind, how to treat it?
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Jason
>
>

[Jason Mann]

"Mel" > wrote in message
...
> The black marks are ammonia or nitrite burns. Do an immediate 30% water
> change to help relieve the irritation to the fish.
> Your tank is still cycling and during this time the ammonia and nitrite
> levels spike to toxic levels. Your tank is only cycled when your ammonia
and
> nitrite are at 0 and your nitrate is over 0 but preferably under 20. While
> this is all going on it is important to test your water often (everyday is
> best) to monitor the levels. it is also often necessary to carry out a
water
> change daily to dilute the ammonia and nitrite so making it less harmful
to
> your fish.
> Mel.

How does one monitor the levels of ammonia, nitrites and nitrates?

Jason

[Geezer From The Freezer]

Jason,

Definitely ammonia and nitrite burns (as mel pointed out).

You can detect ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels
by buying a test kit from your local fish shop.

Get them immediately, but before that, do the 30%
water change (with treated, matched temperature water)
as mel also suggest - she's a wise one!

[Jason Mann]

Thanks very much Mel and Geezer.

My girlfriend has done the water change already, and is off to the fish shop
to get the testing kits.

[Georgi Kirkwood]

Hi, I am the girlfriend!

I have done the 30% water change earlier as suggested - thank you Mel.

I went to the fish shop and explained the problem and advice I got from this
newsgroup. The bloke in there has always given me good advice in the past,
he said there was nothing wrong with the fish, it was a pigment change, and
that this does happen to goldfish over the years. He said what I should
worry about was if the spots were white or red.

I did the test for the water as suggested too, and there is no problem with
ammonia and nitrites or nitrates - all levels are fine and within the ok
ranges on the test kit literature. I called the guy in the fish shop to make
sure I was reading the results right.

He said if it was ammonia then both the fish would have the problem with
these burns.

So my question is, what do I do now!?!

Thanks

Georgia
"Jason Mann" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks very much Mel and Geezer.
>
> My girlfriend has done the water change already, and is off to the fish
shop
> to get the testing kits.
>
>

[Gunther]

In article >,
says...
> Hi, I am the girlfriend!
>
> I have done the 30% water change earlier as suggested - thank you Mel.
>
> I went to the fish shop and explained the problem and advice I got from this
> newsgroup. The bloke in there has always given me good advice in the past,
> he said there was nothing wrong with the fish, it was a pigment change, and
> that this does happen to goldfish over the years. He said what I should
> worry about was if the spots were white or red.
>
> I did the test for the water as suggested too, and there is no problem with
> ammonia and nitrites or nitrates - all levels are fine and within the ok
> ranges on the test kit literature. I called the guy in the fish shop to make
> sure I was reading the results right.
>
> He said if it was ammonia then both the fish would have the problem with
> these burns.
>
> So my question is, what do I do now!?!
>

You keep doing the water changes as suggested and
monitor ammonia/nitrites/nitrates closely.
It's simple enough to do, and is never harmful
unless you do it wrong.
G

[Georgi Kirkwood]

Thanks Gunther

I will do that.


"Gunther" > wrote in message
t...
> In article >,
> says...
> > Hi, I am the girlfriend!
> >
> > I have done the 30% water change earlier as suggested - thank you Mel.
> >
> > I went to the fish shop and explained the problem and advice I got from
this
> > newsgroup. The bloke in there has always given me good advice in the
past,
> > he said there was nothing wrong with the fish, it was a pigment change,
and
> > that this does happen to goldfish over the years. He said what I should
> > worry about was if the spots were white or red.
> >
> > I did the test for the water as suggested too, and there is no problem
with
> > ammonia and nitrites or nitrates - all levels are fine and within the ok
> > ranges on the test kit literature. I called the guy in the fish shop to
make
> > sure I was reading the results right.
> >
> > He said if it was ammonia then both the fish would have the problem with
> > these burns.
> >
> > So my question is, what do I do now!?!
> >
>
> You keep doing the water changes as suggested and
> monitor ammonia/nitrites/nitrates closely.
> It's simple enough to do, and is never harmful
> unless you do it wrong.
> G

[Mel]

Hi Georgi,
The advice people give in fish shops is notorious for being wrong in most
cases unless you are really lucky! Black marks are unlikely to be natural
pigment changes. Colour changes are common in fish but usually they turn
lighter not darker if this happens.
What readings did you get on your tests?
Ammonia should be at 0, nitrites at 0 and nitrates under 20. If higher then
they will cause distress and burns to your fish. Sometimes on the test kit
instructions they do say that amounts higher than these are in safe ranges
but it really is best and healthier for your fish if you keep them at the
levels I stated above.
Mel.

"Georgi Kirkwood" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks Gunther
>
> I will do that.
>
>
> "Gunther" > wrote in message
> t...
> > In article >,
> > says...
> > > Hi, I am the girlfriend!
> > >
> > > I have done the 30% water change earlier as suggested - thank you Mel.
> > >
> > > I went to the fish shop and explained the problem and advice I got
from
> this
> > > newsgroup. The bloke in there has always given me good advice in the
> past,
> > > he said there was nothing wrong with the fish, it was a pigment
change,
> and
> > > that this does happen to goldfish over the years. He said what I
should
> > > worry about was if the spots were white or red.
> > >
> > > I did the test for the water as suggested too, and there is no problem
> with
> > > ammonia and nitrites or nitrates - all levels are fine and within the
ok
> > > ranges on the test kit literature. I called the guy in the fish shop
to
> make
> > > sure I was reading the results right.
> > >
> > > He said if it was ammonia then both the fish would have the problem
with
> > > these burns.
> > >
> > > So my question is, what do I do now!?!
> > >
> >
> > You keep doing the water changes as suggested and
> > monitor ammonia/nitrites/nitrates closely.
> > It's simple enough to do, and is never harmful
> > unless you do it wrong.
> > G
>
>

[Georgi Kirkwood]

Hi Mel

I have binned the Well Fish kit now, but the results were, if I have them
right, 0 for ammonia, 0 for nitrites, and 4 for nitrates. This was the
water in the tank after the 30% change that you suggested. These are all as
they should be, according to the levels you give in your previous advice. I
also kept a bit of the "old" water and tested that - the results were as
above but the nitrates were 6.

The fish shop I go to is ever so good, and they gave me loads of good advice
about caring for my fish when I "adopted" them a couple of years ago, as I
knew nothing about keeping them beforehand. The guy I speak to keeps the
fish there and he also keeps both tropical and goldfish himself at home and
has done for over ten years. I had dreadful trouble with filtration because
the tank that I inherited was so small, and his advice was what sorted that
out for me until I was able to buy them their new tank about three and half
weeks ago.

The other fish I have was half orange and half white when I first got them,
and he is totally white now. The orange one did used to have a bit of black
near it's tail originally, which then went, so perhaps it is just coming
back again?

Otherwise, neither fish appears distressed in anyway, and all behaviour is
normal. Fins and eyes are fine too. They are both eating normally, and there
has been no change in behaviour that I have noticed either, and I have been
watching them fairly closely over the last few days as I have been worried
about them. It is still only the orange one that has the black splotches,
the white one seems utterly unaffected - would they not both have burns as
they have been kept together all the time and in the same water?

Many thanks for your help and advice so far.

Georgia

"Mel" > wrote in message
...
> Hi Georgi,
> The advice people give in fish shops is notorious for being wrong in most
> cases unless you are really lucky! Black marks are unlikely to be natural
> pigment changes. Colour changes are common in fish but usually they turn
> lighter not darker if this happens.
> What readings did you get on your tests?
> Ammonia should be at 0, nitrites at 0 and nitrates under 20. If higher
then
> they will cause distress and burns to your fish. Sometimes on the test kit
> instructions they do say that amounts higher than these are in safe ranges
> but it really is best and healthier for your fish if you keep them at the
> levels I stated above.
> Mel.
>
> "Georgi Kirkwood" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Thanks Gunther
> >
> > I will do that.
> >
> >
> > "Gunther" > wrote in message
> > t...
> > > In article >,
> > > says...
> > > > Hi, I am the girlfriend!
> > > >
> > > > I have done the 30% water change earlier as suggested - thank you
Mel.
> > > >
> > > > I went to the fish shop and explained the problem and advice I got
> from
> > this
> > > > newsgroup. The bloke in there has always given me good advice in the
> > past,
> > > > he said there was nothing wrong with the fish, it was a pigment
> change,
> > and
> > > > that this does happen to goldfish over the years. He said what I
> should
> > > > worry about was if the spots were white or red.
> > > >
> > > > I did the test for the water as suggested too, and there is no
problem
> > with
> > > > ammonia and nitrites or nitrates - all levels are fine and within
the
> ok
> > > > ranges on the test kit literature. I called the guy in the fish shop
> to
> > make
> > > > sure I was reading the results right.
> > > >
> > > > He said if it was ammonia then both the fish would have the problem
> with
> > > > these burns.
> > > >
> > > > So my question is, what do I do now!?!
> > > >
> > >
> > > You keep doing the water changes as suggested and
> > > monitor ammonia/nitrites/nitrates closely.
> > > It's simple enough to do, and is never harmful
> > > unless you do it wrong.
> > > G
> >
> >
>
>

[Mel]

it is possible that one fish is affected and not the others. Like us some
are more sensitive to things like that than others.
Your water quality is good now which is great, and as long as it stays that
way, even if they are burns they will heal quickly and disappear. Otherwise
you'll have a lovely distinguished fish with his black patches!
Keep testing your water (I do mine twice a week) so you can catch any
changes early and before they do any damage, and if your levels rise just do
30% water changes daily until they drop again.
Good luck!
Mel.

"Georgi Kirkwood" > wrote in message
...
> Hi Mel
>
> I have binned the Well Fish kit now, but the results were, if I have them
> right, 0 for ammonia, 0 for nitrites, and 4 for nitrates. This was the
> water in the tank after the 30% change that you suggested. These are all
as
> they should be, according to the levels you give in your previous advice.
I
> also kept a bit of the "old" water and tested that - the results were as
> above but the nitrates were 6.
>
> The fish shop I go to is ever so good, and they gave me loads of good
advice
> about caring for my fish when I "adopted" them a couple of years ago, as I
> knew nothing about keeping them beforehand. The guy I speak to keeps the
> fish there and he also keeps both tropical and goldfish himself at home
and
> has done for over ten years. I had dreadful trouble with filtration
because
> the tank that I inherited was so small, and his advice was what sorted
that
> out for me until I was able to buy them their new tank about three and
half
> weeks ago.
>
> The other fish I have was half orange and half white when I first got
them,
> and he is totally white now. The orange one did used to have a bit of
black
> near it's tail originally, which then went, so perhaps it is just coming
> back again?
>
> Otherwise, neither fish appears distressed in anyway, and all behaviour is
> normal. Fins and eyes are fine too. They are both eating normally, and
there
> has been no change in behaviour that I have noticed either, and I have
been
> watching them fairly closely over the last few days as I have been worried
> about them. It is still only the orange one that has the black splotches,
> the white one seems utterly unaffected - would they not both have burns as
> they have been kept together all the time and in the same water?
>
> Many thanks for your help and advice so far.
>
> Georgia
>
> "Mel" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hi Georgi,
> > The advice people give in fish shops is notorious for being wrong in
most
> > cases unless you are really lucky! Black marks are unlikely to be
natural
> > pigment changes. Colour changes are common in fish but usually they turn
> > lighter not darker if this happens.
> > What readings did you get on your tests?
> > Ammonia should be at 0, nitrites at 0 and nitrates under 20. If higher
> then
> > they will cause distress and burns to your fish. Sometimes on the test
kit
> > instructions they do say that amounts higher than these are in safe
ranges
> > but it really is best and healthier for your fish if you keep them at
the
> > levels I stated above.
> > Mel.
> >
> > "Georgi Kirkwood" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Thanks Gunther
> > >
> > > I will do that.
> > >
> > >
> > > "Gunther" > wrote in message
> > > t...
> > > > In article >,
> > > > says...
> > > > > Hi, I am the girlfriend!
> > > > >
> > > > > I have done the 30% water change earlier as suggested - thank you
> Mel.
> > > > >
> > > > > I went to the fish shop and explained the problem and advice I got
> > from
> > > this
> > > > > newsgroup. The bloke in there has always given me good advice in
the
> > > past,
> > > > > he said there was nothing wrong with the fish, it was a pigment
> > change,
> > > and
> > > > > that this does happen to goldfish over the years. He said what I
> > should
> > > > > worry about was if the spots were white or red.
> > > > >
> > > > > I did the test for the water as suggested too, and there is no
> problem
> > > with
> > > > > ammonia and nitrites or nitrates - all levels are fine and within
> the
> > ok
> > > > > ranges on the test kit literature. I called the guy in the fish
shop
> > to
> > > make
> > > > > sure I was reading the results right.
> > > > >
> > > > > He said if it was ammonia then both the fish would have the
problem
> > with
> > > > > these burns.
> > > > >
> > > > > So my question is, what do I do now!?!
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > You keep doing the water changes as suggested and
> > > > monitor ammonia/nitrites/nitrates closely.
> > > > It's simple enough to do, and is never harmful
> > > > unless you do it wrong.
> > > > G
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Georgi Kirkwood]

Many thanks for all your advice.
"Mel" > wrote in message
...
> it is possible that one fish is affected and not the others. Like us some
> are more sensitive to things like that than others.
> Your water quality is good now which is great, and as long as it stays
that
> way, even if they are burns they will heal quickly and disappear.
Otherwise
> you'll have a lovely distinguished fish with his black patches!
> Keep testing your water (I do mine twice a week) so you can catch any
> changes early and before they do any damage, and if your levels rise just
do
> 30% water changes daily until they drop again.
> Good luck!
> Mel.
>
> "Georgi Kirkwood" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hi Mel
> >
> > I have binned the Well Fish kit now, but the results were, if I have
them
> > right, 0 for ammonia, 0 for nitrites, and 4 for nitrates. This was the
> > water in the tank after the 30% change that you suggested. These are all
> as
> > they should be, according to the levels you give in your previous
advice.
> I
> > also kept a bit of the "old" water and tested that - the results were as
> > above but the nitrates were 6.
> >
> > The fish shop I go to is ever so good, and they gave me loads of good
> advice
> > about caring for my fish when I "adopted" them a couple of years ago, as
I
> > knew nothing about keeping them beforehand. The guy I speak to keeps the
> > fish there and he also keeps both tropical and goldfish himself at home
> and
> > has done for over ten years. I had dreadful trouble with filtration
> because
> > the tank that I inherited was so small, and his advice was what sorted
> that
> > out for me until I was able to buy them their new tank about three and
> half
> > weeks ago.
> >
> > The other fish I have was half orange and half white when I first got
> them,
> > and he is totally white now. The orange one did used to have a bit of
> black
> > near it's tail originally, which then went, so perhaps it is just coming
> > back again?
> >
> > Otherwise, neither fish appears distressed in anyway, and all behaviour
is
> > normal. Fins and eyes are fine too. They are both eating normally, and
> there
> > has been no change in behaviour that I have noticed either, and I have
> been
> > watching them fairly closely over the last few days as I have been
worried
> > about them. It is still only the orange one that has the black
splotches,
> > the white one seems utterly unaffected - would they not both have burns
as
> > they have been kept together all the time and in the same water?
> >
> > Many thanks for your help and advice so far.
> >
> > Georgia
> >
> > "Mel" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Hi Georgi,
> > > The advice people give in fish shops is notorious for being wrong in
> most
> > > cases unless you are really lucky! Black marks are unlikely to be
> natural
> > > pigment changes. Colour changes are common in fish but usually they
turn
> > > lighter not darker if this happens.
> > > What readings did you get on your tests?
> > > Ammonia should be at 0, nitrites at 0 and nitrates under 20. If higher
> > then
> > > they will cause distress and burns to your fish. Sometimes on the test
> kit
> > > instructions they do say that amounts higher than these are in safe
> ranges
> > > but it really is best and healthier for your fish if you keep them at
> the
> > > levels I stated above.
> > > Mel.
> > >
> > > "Georgi Kirkwood" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > Thanks Gunther
> > > >
> > > > I will do that.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Gunther" > wrote in message
> > > > t...
> > > > > In article >,
> > > > > says...
> > > > > > Hi, I am the girlfriend!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have done the 30% water change earlier as suggested - thank
you
> > Mel.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I went to the fish shop and explained the problem and advice I
got
> > > from
> > > > this
> > > > > > newsgroup. The bloke in there has always given me good advice in
> the
> > > > past,
> > > > > > he said there was nothing wrong with the fish, it was a pigment
> > > change,
> > > > and
> > > > > > that this does happen to goldfish over the years. He said what I
> > > should
> > > > > > worry about was if the spots were white or red.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I did the test for the water as suggested too, and there is no
> > problem
> > > > with
> > > > > > ammonia and nitrites or nitrates - all levels are fine and
within
> > the
> > > ok
> > > > > > ranges on the test kit literature. I called the guy in the fish
> shop
> > > to
> > > > make
> > > > > > sure I was reading the results right.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > He said if it was ammonia then both the fish would have the
> problem
> > > with
> > > > > > these burns.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So my question is, what do I do now!?!
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You keep doing the water changes as suggested and
> > > > > monitor ammonia/nitrites/nitrates closely.
> > > > > It's simple enough to do, and is never harmful
> > > > > unless you do it wrong.
> > > > > G
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[stompbox]

Hello:

I just read the thread of messages about the black marks on your fish.
When you change the water - are you treating the water before you put
it in the tank? You can treat water by letting it age or using a
chemical that removes or neutralizes some of the chcemicals found in
tap water.

A combination of these methods is the best because if you age the
water, that is let it sit around in an open container for a number of
hours, the water should be very close in temperature to the water in
your aquarium.

Tap Water conditioner should be easy to find at a fish store.

good luck

francis

[Azul]

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 13:25:14 +0100, "Mel" > wrote:

>The black marks are ammonia or nitrite burns.

Hi,

Just started to read this thread. From everything I have read
the black comes as they are healing. You said one of the fish
had them when you bought it and then they went away. That
is because he/she completely healed. If they come back that
is because they have been burned again and are once again
in the healing process.

No matter what the problem with a fish. The very first thing to
do is water change, water change and water change. This
seems to be the root of many many problems and doing it
does not harm the fish.

Good luck with your guys.

Azul

[Georgi Kirkwood]

Hi

Yes I dechlorinate the water before I add it to the tank, I was advised to
do that by my friendly advisor in the fish shop when I first got the fish.

Georgi
"stompbox" > wrote in message
om...
> Hello:
>
> I just read the thread of messages about the black marks on your fish.
> When you change the water - are you treating the water before you put
> it in the tank? You can treat water by letting it age or using a
> chemical that removes or neutralizes some of the chcemicals found in
> tap water.
>
> A combination of these methods is the best because if you age the
> water, that is let it sit around in an open container for a number of
> hours, the water should be very close in temperature to the water in
> your aquarium.
>
> Tap Water conditioner should be easy to find at a fish store.
>
> good luck
>
> francis

[Georgi Kirkwood]

Thank you Azul

I did another 30% change today as advised by Mel in her posts, and will do
another on Monday.

Georgia
"Azul" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 13:25:14 +0100, "Mel" > wrote:
>
> >The black marks are ammonia or nitrite burns.
>
> Hi,
>
> Just started to read this thread. From everything I have read
> the black comes as they are healing. You said one of the fish
> had them when you bought it and then they went away. That
> is because he/she completely healed. If they come back that
> is because they have been burned again and are once again
> in the healing process.
>
> No matter what the problem with a fish. The very first thing to
> do is water change, water change and water change. This
> seems to be the root of many many problems and doing it
> does not harm the fish.
>
> Good luck with your guys.
>
> Azul

[[email protected]]

as Mel says, lighter not darker and the black is a sign of HEALING ... AFTER the
ammonia burn, so there cannot be ammonia spikes or nitrite spikes when teh fish is
healing or the fish WONT be healing, it would be dead.
if this is a new tank, then all is now well, if this was a cycled tank,then better
try to figure out what went wrong to cause an ammonia spike. Ingrid

"Mel" > wrote:
Colour changes are common in fish but usually they
-----> <turn lighter not darker if this happens.>!!!!!!
> What readings did you get on your tests?
>Ammonia should be at 0, nitrites at 0 and nitrates under 20. If higher then
>they will cause distress and burns to your fish. Sometimes on the test kit
>instructions they do say that amounts higher than these are in safe ranges
>but it really is best and healthier for your fish if you keep them at the
>levels I stated above.
>Mel.


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