water changes...

[GandSBrock]

I remember a long time ago, when I was a child, we had fish and didn't do just
partial water changes. It was the whole works. Net the fish, put them in a
temporary vase, dump the contents of the aquarium in the tub, rinse the rocks
and scrub the sides of the tank.

So I'm viewing this partial water change with a leery eye. It just doesn't
seem to get clean enough. I did about a 50% water change this past weekend -
yeah, I tried for a 25%, but got carried away with trying to get the bits up
with the vaccuum and the next thing you know, half the water is gone. I think
I've just been feeding them too much and a lot of debris is in the bottom of
the tank. Should I just do the whole shebang and start again with a clean
tank?

Thanks,
Stephanie

[Gail Futoran]

"GandSBrock" > wrote in message
...
> I remember a long time ago, when I was a child, we had
fish and didn't do just
> partial water changes. It was the whole works. Net the
fish, put them in a
> temporary vase, dump the contents of the aquarium in the
tub, rinse the rocks
> and scrub the sides of the tank.

That way you lose all or most of the beneficial bacteria
that convert ammonia to nitrItes, & nitrItes to nitrAtes.
Your tank was probably constantly cycling. Not good for the
fish.
Plus these days a lot of municipal water suppliers (assuming
that's your water source) add chloramines to the water.
Those don't disappear simply by letting water stand for
awhile, as chlorine does. Do you treat water (Prime,
AmQuel, etc.) before replacing it?

> So I'm viewing this partial water change with a leery eye.
It just doesn't
> seem to get clean enough.

They not require pristine water. They DO require water that
is relatively clean, that is, reasonably low in nitrates.

I did about a 50% water change this past weekend -
> yeah, I tried for a 25%, but got carried away with trying
to get the bits up
> with the vaccuum and the next thing you know, half the
water is gone.

Depending on how "old" the water was that you removed,
taking out that much can shock the fish that have become
used to the old water. Better to do smaller and more
frequent (weekly or twice monthly) partial water changes.
You don't need to get every little bit of junk out of the
gravel.

I think
> I've just been feeding them too much and a lot of debris
is in the bottom of
> the tank. Should I just do the whole shebang and start
again with a clean
> tank?
>
> Thanks,
> Stephanie

Get some basic water tests. Those will help you decide how
often & how much to change water. You may be worrying about
a problem that doesn't exist. Most importantly, read some
of the basic info from the Aquaria FAQ:

Home page: http://faq.thekrib.com/
Water tests: http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-tests.html
Partial water changes:
http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-changes.html
Also read about feeding, how much and how often.
http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-addfish.html#feeding

I had a 10 gallon guppy tank about 40 years ago, for a 10
year period or so, and a 10 gallon tropical fish community
tank (gouramis, various tetras, cory cats) for 7 years
recently and did everything wrong. The hardier fish
survived, but didn't thrive. Earlier this year I discovered
the aquaria newsgroups and "got religion", re partial water
changes, testing water, having live plants to help with
nitrates, being more careful about selecting fish, stocking,
feeding, etc. I mention all that because you shouldn't feel
there's anything wrong with going to the beginner pages at
the FAQ. I did, despite nearly 20 years' experience with
tropical fish over a 40 year span. You're never too old to
learn!

Gail

[[email protected]]

most people had goldfish "bowls" with funky type gravel or maybe marbles. there was
no filtration, nothing to suck the poop and rotting food out of the container.
in a properly cycled tank there is both bacteria and algae on most surfaces and these
help significantly with keeping the ammonia and nitrite non existent. gravel of
course needs to be pulled out every 4-6 months and cleaned. the best method for
fancy GF is bare bottom and there is no accumulation of crud at all, it all gets
sucked into the filter, the filter is rinsed to get rid of the solid organic matter
and the water is changed as often or as much as needed to keep the nitrates at or
under 20 ppm. there is nothing magic about old tank water. it is full of organics,
and if small partial changes are done soon the minerals will creep up. I routinely
do 50% or more water changes. The issue of chloramines is a problem. It means that
there is ammonia left over, but the best way to deal with this is amquel or aging the
water in a vat with a filter that converts the ammonia.... or even a veggie filter
that removes and conditions the water overnight.
overfeeding not only fouls the tank, it isnt good for fancy GF. high quality food is
better, feed less,and less "filler" which is in one end and out the other and rots
in the tank. Ingrid


(GandSBrock) wrote:
>I remember a long time ago, when I was a child, we had fish and didn't do just
>partial water changes. It was the whole works. Net the fish, put them in a
>temporary vase, dump the contents of the aquarium in the tub, rinse the rocks
>and scrub the sides of the tank.
>So I'm viewing this partial water change with a leery eye. It just doesn't
>seem to get clean enough. I did about a 50% water change this past weekend -
>yeah, I tried for a 25%, but got carried away with trying to get the bits up
>with the vaccuum and the next thing you know, half the water is gone. I think
>I've just been feeding them too much and a lot of debris is in the bottom of
>the tank. Should I just do the whole shebang and start again with a clean
>tank?
>
>Thanks,
>Stephanie



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Geezer From The Freezer]

ingrid,

Are you suggesting that for my two Moors, I should have a bare bottom
tank? I didn't know this if its true.

[[email protected]]

whatever waxes your skis. Ingrid

Geezer From The Freezer > wrote:

>ingrid,
>
>Are you suggesting that for my two Moors, I should have a bare bottom
>tank? I didn't know this if its true.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Geezer From The Freezer]

wrote:
>
> whatever waxes your skis. Ingrid
>
> Geezer From The Freezer > wrote:
>
> >ingrid,
> >
> >Are you suggesting that for my two Moors, I should have a bare bottom
> >tank? I didn't know this if its true.


umm I don't ski, I snowboard :)

[Tom La Bron]

Geezer,

Ingrid has always been under the notion that gravel in an aquarium with
Goldfish is bad. She especially abhors UGF's. Granted a graveless tank is
easier to maintain especially if you have the tendency of not taking care of
your charges by overstocking your tank and/or overfeeding your fish.
Personally, I would not use gravel without an undergravel filter, but that
is my choice. Gravel in a tank becomes a living organism. If the gravel is
deep enough and undisturbed it usually becomes a breeding ground for
anaerobic bacteria, a bad situation. If an UGF is used with the gravel/sand
it becomes a home for good bacteria that helps in the bioactivity of your
tank and it becomes either all or part of your bio-filtration system.

Here again, even with an UGF I usually use a small outside hang-on power
filter, like a Whisper 100. In any event, I have run UGF's for years on end
with out any problems. It can be done and I will admit that it is
esthetically more pleasing than a plain glass bottom.

HTH

Tom L.L.
"Geezer From The Freezer" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> wrote:
> >
> > whatever waxes your skis. Ingrid
> >
> > Geezer From The Freezer > wrote:
> >
> > >ingrid,
> > >
> > >Are you suggesting that for my two Moors, I should have a bare bottom
> > >tank? I didn't know this if its true.
>
>
> umm I don't ski, I snowboard :)

[Poe Lim]

I use gravel with my GF tanks as well, but as I heavily plant them, the UGF
is not a good idea. The plants actually use the mulm as food, and helps with
circulation in the gravel. Diana Walstad has a good book on the ecology of
the planted aquarium; definitely worth reading, although I don't agree with
everything she says.

Cheers,
Poe

"Tom La Bron" > wrote in message
...

> Personally, I would not use gravel without an undergravel filter, but that
> is my choice. Gravel in a tank becomes a living organism. If the gravel
is
> deep enough and undisturbed it usually becomes a breeding ground for
> anaerobic bacteria, a bad situation. If an UGF is used with the
gravel/sand
> it becomes a home for good bacteria that helps in the bioactivity of your
> tank and it becomes either all or part of your bio-filtration system.

[BErney1014]

>I use gravel with my GF tanks as well, but as I heavily plant them, the
>UGF
>is not a good idea.

I've been running a planted goldfish tank with a deep fluorite substrate for 5
years. I use a undergravel filter, a powerhead with an air injector as the only
filter. I only deep clean 10% at a time. I have plants that grow so big I have
to pull them out to make room for the fish. I pulled over 50 feet of anachris
and 2 pounds of java moss this summer. I keep 2 SAE's and a herd of maylasian
trumpet snails. The snails do a great job under the gravel. I wouldn't use too
many rooted plants in order to keep the plates functioning properly.

[Dark Phoenix]

"BErney1014" > wrote in message
...
> >I use gravel with my GF tanks as well, but as I heavily plant them, the
> >UGF
> >is not a good idea.
>
> I've been running a planted goldfish tank with a deep fluorite substrate
for 5
> years. I use a undergravel filter, a powerhead with an air injector as the
only
> filter. I only deep clean 10% at a time. I have plants that grow so big I
have
> to pull them out to make room for the fish. I pulled over 50 feet of
anachris
> and 2 pounds of java moss this summer. I keep 2 SAE's and a herd of
maylasian
> trumpet snails. The snails do a great job under the gravel. I wouldn't use
too
> many rooted plants in order to keep the plates functioning properly.
>
How big *is* this tank that it can hold that much *excess* plantage?


--
Laurie, Dark Phoenix

You know when people see a cat's litter box, they always say,
"Oh, have you got a cat?" Just once I wanted to say, "No, it's
for
company!"

[BErney1014]

>How big *is* this tank that it can hold that much *excess* plantage?

It's a "deep" tank, 65. They have 4- 30 watt T8 bulbs, electronic ballast. The
system is balanced well enough to allow the plants to grow very well. I dose
some excell but not often. I pulled the java moss 1 pound at a time but the
anachris, when held up in 7 foot strands, had lots of extra runners that added
the footage if measured by the single strand.

[mad]

i have large "river stone" in the bottom of my aquarium. it's small enough
to move around during cleaning, and too large for the fish to pick up. i
don't have the whole bottom covered, just a few 'zen' pieces on the bottom.
mad
--
"Some leaders are born women."
United Nations conference slogan

> From: "Tom La Bron" >
> Organization: MBO
> Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.freshwater.goldfish
> Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 21:15:29 -0500
> Subject: Re: water changes...
>
> Geezer,
>
> Ingrid has always been under the notion that gravel in an aquarium with
> Goldfish is bad. She especially abhors UGF's. Granted a graveless tank is
> easier to maintain especially if you have the tendency of not taking care of
> your charges by overstocking your tank and/or overfeeding your fish.
> Personally, I would not use gravel without an undergravel filter, but that
> is my choice. Gravel in a tank becomes a living organism. If the gravel is
> deep enough and undisturbed it usually becomes a breeding ground for
> anaerobic bacteria, a bad situation. If an UGF is used with the gravel/sand
> it becomes a home for good bacteria that helps in the bioactivity of your
> tank and it becomes either all or part of your bio-filtration system.
>
> Here again, even with an UGF I usually use a small outside hang-on power
> filter, like a Whisper 100. In any event, I have run UGF's for years on end
> with out any problems. It can be done and I will admit that it is
> esthetically more pleasing than a plain glass bottom.
>
> HTH
>
> Tom L.L.
> "Geezer From The Freezer" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> whatever waxes your skis. Ingrid
>>>
>>> Geezer From The Freezer > wrote:
>>>
>>>> ingrid,
>>>>
>>>> Are you suggesting that for my two Moors, I should have a bare bottom
>>>> tank? I didn't know this if its true.
>>
>>
>> umm I don't ski, I snowboard :)
>
>



-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----