GF and Plants Friendly Substrate?

[Underwater]

I've finally got some aquatic plants established in my tank that are growing
and able to survive the goldfish. My goldfish are still under 3 to 4 inches
but they love to rip up tender plants.

I have pea gravel in the tank. The fish are getting bigger now and I've
read a lot of warnings here about the fish swallowing gravel.

My question is, what if anything should I put in the bottom of the tank that
will work for the fish and the plants in the aquarium?

Could I dump a load of marbles on top of the gravel?

Thanks.

[Geezer From The Freezer]

Underwater wrote:
>
> I've finally got some aquatic plants established in my tank that are growing
> and able to survive the goldfish. My goldfish are still under 3 to 4 inches
> but they love to rip up tender plants.
>
> I have pea gravel in the tank. The fish are getting bigger now and I've
> read a lot of warnings here about the fish swallowing gravel.
>
> My question is, what if anything should I put in the bottom of the tank that
> will work for the fish and the plants in the aquarium?
>
> Could I dump a load of marbles on top of the gravel?
>
> Thanks.

Underwater,

I've had the same dilemma as you. I'm considering one of the following:

Sand substrate
No Substrate
Pebble Substrate

Still yet to make my mind up.

[Geezer From The Freezer]

Mel

its such a dilemma isn't it!
What are you going to do? Have a bare bottom tank?

I spent 15 quid on sand yesterday, now I don't know if I should
use it, get cobbles (big rounded ones) or go for bare bottom.

[Poe Lim]

The worry I think is more on the GF choking on the gravel (I've only seen it
happen once, and the GF had this pebble stuck in its mouth for several
weeks, but was otherwise fine), hence anything that is smaller than the GF's
mouth should be fine. Mine seems happy with 2-3mm gravel.

Cheers,
Poe

"Underwater" > wrote in message
...

> I have pea gravel in the tank. The fish are getting bigger now and I've
> read a lot of warnings here about the fish swallowing gravel.

[Mel]

I want to go bare bottom but have loads of sandy bits left in the bottom
which wont come out with my gravel vac and which I can't get out with my
hands. I think I might try scraping them up with a credit card type thing
into a little pile and moving it under one of my pieces of bogwood so I
can't see it! Bit like sweeping the dirt under the carpet but can't think of
anything else!
It does look really smart actually. I was worried that I'd be able to see
through the bottom of the tank and it would look ugly but it actually looks
mirrored when the tanks full. I plan on getting some little terracotta pots
to pot my plants in otherwise it would look too bare.
Once the fish got back in the tank after I took it all out they were a bit
confused and kept sucking around the bottom wondering why there was nothing
there!
I usually feed my fish in a little dish so that the sinking food doesn't
sink into the gravel, but now it's bare bottomed they can get it all and
there's no waste so it should stay much cleaner.
Personally I wouldn't use sand, because it is quite sharp and might damage
their gills. You know what it's like when you go to the beach too - it gets
everywhere so there is the chance that grains of it could get in eyes etc
and cause infections.
Mel.

"Geezer From The Freezer" > wrote in message
...
> Mel
>
> its such a dilemma isn't it!
> What are you going to do? Have a bare bottom tank?
>
> I spent 15 quid on sand yesterday, now I don't know if I should
> use it, get cobbles (big rounded ones) or go for bare bottom.

[Geezer From The Freezer]

Poe Lim wrote:
>
> The worry I think is more on the GF choking on the gravel (I've only seen it
> happen once, and the GF had this pebble stuck in its mouth for several
> weeks, but was otherwise fine), hence anything that is smaller than the GF's
> mouth should be fine. Mine seems happy with 2-3mm gravel.

I think I'm going to section a portion of my tank with large cobbles
that definitely won't fit in their mouth, a big rock, have some bare
bottom and have plants in a pot with sand and also my cave/bridge
from my current tank.

[Toni]

"Mel" > wrote in message
...
> I want to go bare bottom but have loads of sandy bits left in the bottom
> which wont come out with my gravel vac and which I can't get out with my
> hands. I think I might try scraping them up with a credit card type thing
> into a little pile and moving it under one of my pieces of bogwood so I
> can't see it! Bit like sweeping the dirt under the carpet but can't think
of
> anything else!


A simple siphon hose (with*out* gravel vac attachment) will suck it right
out.
With my perfectly clean barebottom tank bits like that would drive me nuts!


--
Toni
http://www.cearbhaill.com/goldfish.htm

[axemanchris]

I put coloured glass pebbles in my tank. They look very pretty, are good for
holding down plants & won't gag the fish.

Jacqui

"Geezer From The Freezer" > wrote in message
...
> Mel
>
> its such a dilemma isn't it!
> What are you going to do? Have a bare bottom tank?
>
> I spent 15 quid on sand yesterday, now I don't know if I should
> use it, get cobbles (big rounded ones) or go for bare bottom.

[Underwater]

"Geezer From The Freezer" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Poe Lim wrote:
> >
> > The worry I think is more on the GF choking on the gravel (I've only
seen it
> > happen once, and the GF had this pebble stuck in its mouth for several
> > weeks, but was otherwise fine), hence anything that is smaller than the
GF's
> > mouth should be fine. Mine seems happy with 2-3mm gravel.
>
> I think I'm going to section a portion of my tank with large cobbles
> that definitely won't fit in their mouth, a big rock, have some bare
> bottom and have plants in a pot with sand and also my cave/bridge
> from my current tank.

This sounds like a good solution. After posting the question I started
thinking about using 1" or larger river rock, possibly on top of some
gravel.

I've been using an Aquaclear filter that draws water through an under-gravel
filter. I really like the waterfall effect of the Aquaclear, it gives nice
aeration and a current for the fish to play in without too much current. I
also like the way the waste decomposes in the UGF. As I mentioned, I
finally got some plants that are growing well and are too tough to be ripped
up by the fish, which cuts down on the frequency of water changes by
removing nitrates. So my tank looks natural and the water stays good with
very little tank maintenance. But the fish are getting big and if they end
up choking on gravel it's no good.

I think bigger rocks instead of or on top of a thin layer of gravel may be a
solution.

Thanks for any input or experience with this problem.

[Toni]

"Underwater" > wrote in message
...
> As I mentioned, I
> finally got some plants that are growing well and are too tough to be
ripped
> up by the fish, which cuts down on the frequency of water changes by
> removing nitrates. So my tank looks natural and the water stays good with
> very little tank maintenance. But the fish are getting big and if they
end
> up choking on gravel it's no good.
>
> I think bigger rocks instead of or on top of a thin layer of gravel may be
a
> solution.
>
> Thanks for any input or experience with this problem.


In my barebottom goldfish tank I have a selection of plants attached to
driftwood.
I tried plants in clay pots, plants attached to rocks, and this works much
better. They are so lightweight that I can scoot them around with the siphon
while vacuuming and not worry that they will tip over and crack my glass.
This always bugged me with the pots and rocks- one slip of the grip and
*crash*.


--
Toni
http://www.cearbhaill.com/goldfish.htm.

[Geezer From The Freezer]

Toni, good thought. That is why initially I was considering a
thin layer of sand (which I wont now). Plastic pots are ok, I wouldn't
use clay pots as they'd probably wear away anyway.

[Toni]

"Geezer From The Freezer" > wrote in message
...
> Toni, good thought. That is why initially I was considering a
> thin layer of sand (which I wont now). Plastic pots are ok, I wouldn't
> use clay pots as they'd probably wear away anyway.


It's the kind of thing that if I dropped a rock or a clay pot and ruined my
tank I would kick myself into next week. Some problems are just easier to
prevent <g>.
And just scooting the wood around is much faster than removing all the suff,
vacuuming, and putting it back. I just did a 25% water change in something
like 15 minutes.


--
Toni
http://www.cearbhaill.com/aquarium.htm

[Mel]

How do you attach the plants to the driftwood?
Mel.

"Toni" > wrote in message
link.net...
>
> "Underwater" > wrote in message
> ...
> > As I mentioned, I
> > finally got some plants that are growing well and are too tough to be
> ripped
> > up by the fish, which cuts down on the frequency of water changes by
> > removing nitrates. So my tank looks natural and the water stays good
with
> > very little tank maintenance. But the fish are getting big and if they
> end
> > up choking on gravel it's no good.
> >
> > I think bigger rocks instead of or on top of a thin layer of gravel may
be
> a
> > solution.
> >
> > Thanks for any input or experience with this problem.
>
>
> In my barebottom goldfish tank I have a selection of plants attached to
> driftwood.
> I tried plants in clay pots, plants attached to rocks, and this works much
> better. They are so lightweight that I can scoot them around with the
siphon
> while vacuuming and not worry that they will tip over and crack my glass.
> This always bugged me with the pots and rocks- one slip of the grip and
> *crash*.
>
>
> --
> Toni
> http://www.cearbhaill.com/goldfish.htm.
>
>

[Toni]

"Mel" > wrote in message
...
> How do you attach the plants to the driftwood?
> Mel.


Initially I use fine fishing line until the plants attach themselves
securely. I've also seen cotton thread recommended, but when I tried it the
thread let loose before the plants rooted. Even rubber bands will work.

--
Toni
http://www.cearbhaill.com/aquarium.htm

[Jan Sacharuk]

In article >, Mel wrote:
> I had a fish almost choke to death last night on the gravel in her tank. I
> came home to find her laying on the bottom, looking dead. I picked her out

I had a similar scare last night, though my fish wasn't choking. He
managed to get an oddly shaped piece of gravel caught in his mouth,
but he seemed generally unconcerned by it, for some reason, despite it
holding his mouth open. In the normal course of his incredibly fast
swimming, he bumped the tank and the rock popped out.

I worry about the gravel from time to time, but my fish do seem to
love it. We even named one of them 'Pebbles', because she likes moving
gravel around. She doesn't just forage, she seems to like moving it it
a way that seems purposeful. The fancies don't seem to care as much,
but the commons would probably be pretty sad without it.

I figure I'll just keep a close eye on them, and make sure I'm there
to help them if they need it.

JS

--
========================= ========================
Jan Sacharuk Member in Good Standing of The Discordian Solidarity
Turn on viewing of the X-Geek-Code header to see my Geek Code
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"Bored now. This is the part that's less fun. When there isn't any
screaming." - Evil Willow, Buffy the Vampire Slayer

[Mat]

Geezer,

These pebbles your thing about getting are they the sort of size of the
pebbles that are on the beach and if you washed them really hard and
carefully would go perfectly in your tank?

If so can you please tell me because this could save my goldfish!

Thanks

Mat
"Geezer From The Freezer" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Underwater wrote:
> >
> > I've finally got some aquatic plants established in my tank that are
growing
> > and able to survive the goldfish. My goldfish are still under 3 to 4
inches
> > but they love to rip up tender plants.
> >
> > I have pea gravel in the tank. The fish are getting bigger now and I've
> > read a lot of warnings here about the fish swallowing gravel.
> >
> > My question is, what if anything should I put in the bottom of the tank
that
> > will work for the fish and the plants in the aquarium?
> >
> > Could I dump a load of marbles on top of the gravel?
> >
> > Thanks.
>
> Underwater,
>
> I've had the same dilemma as you. I'm considering one of the following:
>
> Sand substrate
> No Substrate
> Pebble Substrate
>
> Still yet to make my mind up.

[Mat]

I also have an underwater gravel filter would this be ok with it too?

Thanks Mat
"Geezer From The Freezer" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Underwater wrote:
> >
> > I've finally got some aquatic plants established in my tank that are
growing
> > and able to survive the goldfish. My goldfish are still under 3 to 4
inches
> > but they love to rip up tender plants.
> >
> > I have pea gravel in the tank. The fish are getting bigger now and I've
> > read a lot of warnings here about the fish swallowing gravel.
> >
> > My question is, what if anything should I put in the bottom of the tank
that
> > will work for the fish and the plants in the aquarium?
> >
> > Could I dump a load of marbles on top of the gravel?
> >
> > Thanks.
>
> Underwater,
>
> I've had the same dilemma as you. I'm considering one of the following:
>
> Sand substrate
> No Substrate
> Pebble Substrate
>
> Still yet to make my mind up.

[Geezer From The Freezer]

Mat, yes similar type, but the right size so that they would not fit in
the mouth. I assume a UGF would be ok, but I'm no expert.