Fish problems. Dropsy?

[George Thompson]

Sorry if this comes as a second post, but I'm a little worried, and
I've been off investigating!

Right, stats first:

Temperature is 21'C-22'C (72F) - I'm buying a heater tomorrow. Info
on how they work make/models recommended would be helpful
Nitrites - 0 (not sure if I believe that)
Nitrates - 40 (water change time?)
PH 7.8-8 (steady)

Tank is definately overstocked at the moment. Due to my financial
situation, I'm opting for regular water changes. Goldfish & shubunkin
have been growing expotentially. Now 3" (1" in 1 month) Tank size is
11g and was only temporary. I'm worried about upgrading for 3
reasons.

1.) Top floor flat (3 stories) - floor is wonky and I'm not sure it'll
take much more weight.

2.) Only just bought a new hood for the last one.

3.) will need replacement hood, tank, light bulb & stand. I don't
have any more room!

I suppose the good water quality is the reason for the sudden growth
spurt. I did sell my old hexatank (a whole 1g) but I suspect I can
retrieve it. I still have my new temporary tank (I was going to use
it for brine shrimp, but it's completely impractical for that use. It
is less than 1g (recommended by most LGF as a "perfect starter tank".
I was keeping it for plants and for emergency dips etc.

History:
Fish related - fish swallowed stone about 2/3 weeks ago
Enviromental - change from gravel to pebbles about 2 weeks ago
Enviromental - several water changes, addition of salt (probably too
quickly, but nitrates seem to indicate that the biobugs recovered OK)
Fish related - Fish swimming around at bottom, bit slow. Halved
feeding and alternated between brocolli (bad idea, v.smelly water) and
bloodworm. 1 week ago. Fish on high protein at the moment (no peas
till today)
Enviromental - Finally realised the reason my pump kept stopping after
I turned off the electricity was because small yellow clog meter was
firmly encrusted. Washed pump thoroughly in used tank water. Lots of
crap came out
Enviromental - water change, probably a bit to cold (winter here in
UK, I try and let water stand for 12-24hrs to get to room temperature)

Water is conditioned with a declor when I don't have time or change is
needed urgently.

Conclusions:

I need help here. I understand that this situation is probably my
fault, but the fish seemed to be doing really quite well in their
enviroment (all growing, no illness for six months). Stress & water
temp is probably to blame.

All and every bit of help would be appreciated. I really don't want
to loose my chubby oranda, especially after he's only just started
developing his headpiece :- )

[[email protected]]

(George Thompson) wrote:
>Nitrates - 40 (water change time?)
..... right, get it down to 20 ppm

>feeding and alternated between brocolli (bad idea, v.smelly water) and
>bloodworm. 1 week ago. Fish on high protein at the moment (no peas
>till today)
..... live food is not recommended for fancy GF. not even frozen live food. get high
quality pellets and feed very little. sinking pellets are best.

>Enviromental - water change, probably a bit to cold (winter here in
>UK, I try and let water stand for 12-24hrs to get to room temperature)
.... add dechlor to teh tank and run the correct temp water into the tanks, or, get
another heater and keep it warm while it aerates overnight. city water always needs
to have dechor added to it.

If you think the fish has dropsy, go here
http://users.megapathdsl.net/~solo/puregold/disease/symptom/byname.htm#dropsy



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Mel]

A nice detailed post but you dont mention any symptoms?
Mel.


"George Thompson" > wrote in message
om...
> Sorry if this comes as a second post, but I'm a little worried, and
> I've been off investigating!
>
> Right, stats first:
>
> Temperature is 21'C-22'C (72F) - I'm buying a heater tomorrow. Info
> on how they work make/models recommended would be helpful
> Nitrites - 0 (not sure if I believe that)
> Nitrates - 40 (water change time?)
> PH 7.8-8 (steady)
>
> Tank is definately overstocked at the moment. Due to my financial
> situation, I'm opting for regular water changes. Goldfish & shubunkin
> have been growing expotentially. Now 3" (1" in 1 month) Tank size is
> 11g and was only temporary. I'm worried about upgrading for 3
> reasons.
>
> 1.) Top floor flat (3 stories) - floor is wonky and I'm not sure it'll
> take much more weight.
>
> 2.) Only just bought a new hood for the last one.
>
> 3.) will need replacement hood, tank, light bulb & stand. I don't
> have any more room!
>
> I suppose the good water quality is the reason for the sudden growth
> spurt. I did sell my old hexatank (a whole 1g) but I suspect I can
> retrieve it. I still have my new temporary tank (I was going to use
> it for brine shrimp, but it's completely impractical for that use. It
> is less than 1g (recommended by most LGF as a "perfect starter tank".
> I was keeping it for plants and for emergency dips etc.
>
> History:
> Fish related - fish swallowed stone about 2/3 weeks ago
> Enviromental - change from gravel to pebbles about 2 weeks ago
> Enviromental - several water changes, addition of salt (probably too
> quickly, but nitrates seem to indicate that the biobugs recovered OK)
> Fish related - Fish swimming around at bottom, bit slow. Halved
> feeding and alternated between brocolli (bad idea, v.smelly water) and
> bloodworm. 1 week ago. Fish on high protein at the moment (no peas
> till today)
> Enviromental - Finally realised the reason my pump kept stopping after
> I turned off the electricity was because small yellow clog meter was
> firmly encrusted. Washed pump thoroughly in used tank water. Lots of
> crap came out
> Enviromental - water change, probably a bit to cold (winter here in
> UK, I try and let water stand for 12-24hrs to get to room temperature)
>
> Water is conditioned with a declor when I don't have time or change is
> needed urgently.
>
> Conclusions:
>
> I need help here. I understand that this situation is probably my
> fault, but the fish seemed to be doing really quite well in their
> enviroment (all growing, no illness for six months). Stress & water
> temp is probably to blame.
>
> All and every bit of help would be appreciated. I really don't want
> to loose my chubby oranda, especially after he's only just started
> developing his headpiece :- )

[George Thompson]

Might have helped if I hadn't posted in rec.aquaria.freshwater
first...

My goldfish has suddently had a pine cone effect just behind one of
its gills. it's quite startling and was completely unexpected. It
wasn't there friday (sunday now - almost monday!)

Basically, what do I do? I will post a picture when I find my camera
on http://www.neobard.info/illfish.jpg

if the link doesn't work, I've not taken the pic.

[BErney1014]

>.... live food is not recommended for fancy GF. not even frozen live food.
> get high
>quality pellets and feed very little. sinking pellets are best.

Pure B.S., live food is the best.

[George Thompson]

Definately worse this morning. The scales are coming looseand I can
see like a fluffy substance around where the scales are loose. Fish
is swimming with injured side down. Is this still likely to be
dropsy?

[Geezer From Freezer]

BErney1014 wrote:
>
> >.... live food is not recommended for fancy GF. not even frozen live food.
> > get high
> >quality pellets and feed very little. sinking pellets are best.
>
> Pure B.S., live food is the best.

Maybe best to ask the question to Ingrid why live foods are not best
before shooting her down first!

Ingrid?

Ozz

[George Thompson]

Definately worse this morning. The scales are coming looseand I can
see like a fluffy substance around where the scales are loose. Fish
is swimming with injured side down. Is this still likely to be
dropsy?

[Mel]

I'm not sure. Dropsy usually affects the whole body, not just one part like
your fish.


"George Thompson" > wrote in message
om...
> Definately worse this morning. The scales are coming looseand I can
> see like a fluffy substance around where the scales are loose. Fish
> is swimming with injured side down. Is this still likely to be
> dropsy?

[George Thompson]

thanks Mel. that's what I thought. Could it be bullying? The fish doesn't
act unwell, just like it's inconvienced. Still eating fine and swimming OK.

"Mel" > wrote in message
...
> I'm not sure. Dropsy usually affects the whole body, not just one part
like
> your fish.
>
>
> "George Thompson" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Definately worse this morning. The scales are coming looseand I can
> > see like a fluffy substance around where the scales are loose. Fish
> > is swimming occasionally with injured side down. Is this still likely
to be
> > dropsy?
>
>

[[email protected]]

ok.. this sounds like infection from inside coming out rather than pineconing all
over which is dropsy. you need to feed antibiotic and treat the fish with antibiotic
in the water or potassium permanganate. you can also treat the area topically, altho
this is an internal infection coming out. run the temperature up to 84oF as long as
1. the gills are bright cherry red
2. the slime coat is normal, not thick
Ingrid

(George Thompson) wrote:

>Definately worse this morning. The scales are coming looseand I can
>see like a fluffy substance around where the scales are loose. Fish
>is swimming with injured side down. Is this still likely to be
>dropsy?



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[[email protected]]

You might have noticed that there are a couple people who rarely bother to help
anyone, rather, their main activity is attacking what I say. They are killfiled. I
dont respond to personal attacks. Ingrid


Geezer From Freezer > wrote:

>
>
>BErney1014 wrote:
>>
>> >.... live food is not recommended for fancy GF. not even frozen live food.
>> > get high
>> >quality pellets and feed very little. sinking pellets are best.
>>
>> Pure B.S., live food is the best.
>
>Maybe best to ask the question to Ingrid why live foods are not best
>before shooting her down first!
>
>Ingrid?
>
>Ozz



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Tim Neobard]

Unfortunately my laptop has been lost in the post (great) so I can't get the
pictures off my camera phone. I'm trying to locate the camera now. Infact,
as I wrote this, I looked down at my feet and lo-and-behold. It was there.

Picture will be up within the hour. I've isolated him in a small bowl with
no salt in so I get a better shot of the infection. I'd really appreciate
some help and why on earth are people b*tching about food when my fishy's
life is at stake? Anyway, I appreciate the comment on the food. I wish I
hadn't bought two kilos last week...

> wrote in message
...
> You might have noticed that there are a couple people who rarely bother to
help
> anyone, rather, their main activity is attacking what I say. They are
killfiled. I
> dont respond to personal attacks. Ingrid
>
>
> Geezer From Freezer > wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >BErney1014 wrote:
> >>
> >> >.... live food is not recommended for fancy GF. not even frozen live
food.
> >> > get high
> >> >quality pellets and feed very little. sinking pellets are best.
> >>
> >> Pure B.S., live food is the best.
> >
> >Maybe best to ask the question to Ingrid why live foods are not best
> >before shooting her down first!
> >
> >Ingrid?
> >
> >Ozz
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Tim Neobard]

fish pic available at: http://www.neobard.info/illfish.jpg

I've blown up the irritated areas in the hope it'll aid diagnosis.

"George Thompson" > wrote in message
...
> thanks Mel. that's what I thought. Could it be bullying? The fish doesn't
> act unwell, just like it's inconvienced. Still eating fine and swimming
OK.
>
> "Mel" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I'm not sure. Dropsy usually affects the whole body, not just one part
> like
> > your fish.
> >
> >
> > "George Thompson" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > Definately worse this morning. The scales are coming looseand I can
> > > see like a fluffy substance around where the scales are loose. Fish
> > > is swimming occasionally with injured side down. Is this still likely
> to be
> > > dropsy?
> >
> >
>
>

[Tim Neobard]

btw - this may confuse you - hearing George Thompsons voice from Tim
Neobards account... but my internet is down and my laptop has dissapeared
(blame HP)

"George Thompson" > wrote in message
...
> thanks Mel. that's what I thought. Could it be bullying? The fish doesn't
> act unwell, just like it's inconvienced. Still eating fine and swimming
OK.
>
> "Mel" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I'm not sure. Dropsy usually affects the whole body, not just one part
> like
> > your fish.
> >
> >
> > "George Thompson" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > Definately worse this morning. The scales are coming looseand I can
> > > see like a fluffy substance around where the scales are loose. Fish
> > > is swimming occasionally with injured side down. Is this still likely
> to be
> > > dropsy?
> >
> >
>
>

[[email protected]]

yes, it does look like columnaris.
1. do the peroxide dip
http://users.megapathdsl.net/~solo/puregold/disease/treatment/treatment2.htm#peroxide_dip
2. treat the area topically with antibiotic creme
http://users.megapathdsl.net/~solo/puregold/disease/treatment/trtmnt.htm#topical%20treatment
3. feed antibiotic food .. get kanamycin caps, mix with a teaspoon of water, soak
dry food in it. use the same day. feed the fish one or two pellets per feeding, 3x
per day.

while live food is great for fish in ponds and recommended, Jo Ann Burke the Goldfish
Guru says fish living in tanks dont have the immune system of pond fish and has
cultured pathogens out of live food in the past. She is very leery of anything live
or fresh frozen, esp. tubilaria. now. there is irradiated food which is pathogen
free which is fine. also, brine shrimp arent a problem (altho most of em hit the
filter rather than the fish's mouth and fouls the tank). BTW, some people break out
from handling blood worms.
Ingrid

"Tim Neobard" > wrote:

>fish pic available at: http://www.neobard.info/illfish.jpg
>
>I've blown up the irritated areas in the hope it'll aid diagnosis.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[BErney1014]

>> Pure B.S., live food is the best.
>
>Maybe best to ask the question to Ingrid why live foods are not best
>before shooting her down first!
>
>Ingrid?
>
>Ozz


You can ask her why. I don't care who you believe, but if you knew more about
the subject you wouldn't believe her. Look into it, it's nothing new.

[Tim Neobard]

several problems:

Problem 1: fish worse. I've seen the red anal port & blister appeared - I
concur Ingrid, definately Columnaris. I've isolated in a tank with hastily
prepared conditions. I brought the tank up to temperature as quick as I
could with my new heater & treated the water with anti-clor - belive me,
there was no alternative. The conditions in the small bowl were terrible
and getting worse every minute it was in there.

Problem 2: I've added a product produced by interpret. It's their no 9.
"internal bacteria" and makes no mention of the chemicals used. I can't
find any place that stocks antibiotics, everyone says "you'll have to get
them from a vet" the vets I've spoken to don't have any knowledge or
substances that they'd risk with fish.

Problem 3: I cannot get any antibiotic food. All the shops can stock me
with is "king british medicated fish food" which basically has vitamins in
it.

I think I've lost this fish. I'm annoyed that stockists can't sell
antibiotics. I've also gone out and spent £70 on a £3.99 fish. That's the
price of caring :- (... I've done my best, but tomorrow I've been called
into work - I'll only be around tomorrow morning which is when I have to
book tickets, do laundry & now drive the 30 miles to my LGFS...

At least they had peroxide!

So what I'm doing tomorrow:

1.) getting up at 5am to drive to fish shop as it opens
2.) buying peroxide
3.) driving to B&Q to buy a new bucket
4.) do peroxide dip
5.) return fish to medicated tank - is this a good idea?
6.) do laundry
7.) do tickets

Anything you can recommend to treat this fish I can get in the UK? This
interpret stuff is not an antibiotic, but there seems nothing else on the
market will do the job.

Should I also treat my other fish & the corys?

Please feel free to use my photographs on your site ingrid to aid people in
diagnosing their fish!

> wrote in message
...
> yes, it does look like columnaris.
> 1. do the peroxide dip
>
http://users.megapathdsl.net/~solo/puregold/disease/treatment/treatment2.htm#peroxide_dip
> 2. treat the area topically with antibiotic creme
>
http://users.megapathdsl.net/~solo/puregold/disease/treatment/trtmnt.htm#topical%20treatment
> 3. feed antibiotic food .. get kanamycin caps, mix with a teaspoon of
water, soak
> dry food in it. use the same day. feed the fish one or two pellets per
feeding, 3x
> per day.

[[email protected]]

can you get potassium permanganate? KMNO4? it is used in water softening.
http://users.megapathdsl.net/~solo/puregold/disease/disease.htm
in the treatment says how to make up stock solution. this stuff really kills
columnaris on the outside. so you cannot get antibiotics for inside the tank? not
even sulfa type antibiotics? for food, just soak the dry food in the antibiotic in a
little water. you might consider ordering it online for future fish. Ingrid

"Tim Neobard" > wrote:
>Problem 1: fish worse. I've seen the red anal port & blister appeared - I
>concur Ingrid, definately Columnaris. I've isolated in a tank with hastily
>prepared conditions. I brought the tank up to temperature as quick as I
>could with my new heater & treated the water with anti-clor - belive me,
>there was no alternative. The conditions in the small bowl were terrible
>and getting worse every minute it was in there.
>
>Problem 2: I've added a product produced by interpret. It's their no 9.
>"internal bacteria" and makes no mention of the chemicals used. I can't
>find any place that stocks antibiotics, everyone says "you'll have to get
>them from a vet" the vets I've spoken to don't have any knowledge or
>substances that they'd risk with fish.
>
>Problem 3: I cannot get any antibiotic food. All the shops can stock me
>with is "king british medicated fish food" which basically has vitamins in
>it.
>
>I think I've lost this fish. I'm annoyed that stockists can't sell
>antibiotics. I've also gone out and spent £70 on a £3.99 fish. That's the
>price of caring :- (... I've done my best, but tomorrow I've been called
>into work - I'll only be around tomorrow morning which is when I have to
>book tickets, do laundry & now drive the 30 miles to my LGFS...
>
>At least they had peroxide!
>
>So what I'm doing tomorrow:
>
>1.) getting up at 5am to drive to fish shop as it opens
>2.) buying peroxide
>3.) driving to B&Q to buy a new bucket
>4.) do peroxide dip
>5.) return fish to medicated tank - is this a good idea?
>6.) do laundry
>7.) do tickets
>
>Anything you can recommend to treat this fish I can get in the UK? This
>interpret stuff is not an antibiotic, but there seems nothing else on the
>market will do the job.
>
>Should I also treat my other fish & the corys?
>
>Please feel free to use my photographs on your site ingrid to aid people in
>diagnosing their fish!
>
> wrote in message
...
>> yes, it does look like columnaris.
>> 1. do the peroxide dip
>>
>http://users.megapathdsl.net/~solo/puregold/disease/treatment/treatment2.htm#peroxide_dip
>> 2. treat the area topically with antibiotic creme
>>
>http://users.megapathdsl.net/~solo/puregold/disease/treatment/trtmnt.htm#topical%20treatment
>> 3. feed antibiotic food .. get kanamycin caps, mix with a teaspoon of
>water, soak
>> dry food in it. use the same day. feed the fish one or two pellets per
>feeding, 3x
>> per day.
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Donald Kerns]

Tim Neobard wrote:

> Problem 2: I've added a product produced by interpret. It's their no
> 9.
> "internal bacteria" and makes no mention of the chemicals used. I
> can't find any place that stocks antibiotics, everyone says "you'll
> have to get
> them from a vet" the vets I've spoken to don't have any knowledge or
> substances that they'd risk with fish.
>

May I suggest you get your vet(s) to contact Jo-Anne directly or via
email?

They're probably being "first of all, do no harm" in their ignorance of
fish medications. If they contact somebody who they can recognize as an
"expert" they'll probably do the right thing and follow the expert's
advice...

-Donald
--
"Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving
that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the
proof." -Galbraith's Law

[George Thompson]

Well, I'm pretty pleased with this Interpet stuff. Today the scales are
down (not perfect, you can still see the red underneath) and the anal port
is still red. He's still acting completely freaked - but he seems a bit
better. For 8 hours worth of treatment, I think he's going to be ok. We'll
see.

As for antibiotics, it does look like it'll have to be online in future -
the only problem is customs and whether I can get whoever is sending the
package to classify it as a gift with little value and nothing to do with
chemicals. Airplanes don't take kindly to carrying those kind of substances
as far as I know.

I'm going to go buy the peroxide now. Then I'm going to leave it till this
evening to see whether he's better. If he is, then I'll probably spare him
the stress.

Thank you for your Time Ingrid - but without antibiotics I'm pretty stuffed
with your methods at the moment. I'll pray this works and start looking
towards the black fish market later on!

BTW - puregold is a great resource, but a little confusing. Are you
thinking of upgrading the site?

> wrote in message
...
> can you get potassium permanganate? KMNO4? it is used in water
softening.
> http://users.megapathdsl.net/~solo/puregold/disease/disease.htm
> in the treatment says how to make up stock solution. this stuff really
kills
> columnaris on the outside. so you cannot get antibiotics for inside the
tank? not
> even sulfa type antibiotics? for food, just soak the dry food in the
antibiotic in a
> little water. you might consider ordering it online for future fish.
Ingrid
>

[Mel]

Interpet's anti fungus and finrot treats columnaris.
Mel


"BErney1014" > wrote in message
...
> >> Pure B.S., live food is the best.
> >
> >Maybe best to ask the question to Ingrid why live foods are not best
> >before shooting her down first!
> >
> >Ingrid?
> >
> >Ozz
>
>
> You can ask her why. I don't care who you believe, but if you knew more
about
> the subject you wouldn't believe her. Look into it, it's nothing new.

[BErney1014]

>Interpet's anti fungus and finrot treats columnaris.

Yes, if it looks like fungus, it's called fungus, even though it's a bacteria.
There are quite a few brands in UK to treat with. If I recall the packaging
laws don't require ingredient listings in the UK. Mike Edwards would be a guy
to contact in the UK, he has a web site too.

[[email protected]]

yeah, I am ... over Xmas vacation. maybe send me an email stating what is confusing.

dr-solo@(splice this part out)wi.rr.com

"George Thompson" > wrote:
>BTW - puregold is a great resource, but a little confusing. Are you
>thinking of upgrading the site?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[klara]

In message >,
writes
>can you get potassium permanganate?
Potassium permanganate used to be available from Boots - had to soak my
kids in it when they had chicken pox: amazing effect - bright purple
spots...
Klara
(just visiting)
--

[George Thompson]

The anal port on my chocolate oranda has enlarged considerably and is very
red.

I thought it was going down this morning, but it seems to be getting worse.
Am I going to damage him now with a potassium dip?

He's freaking out a lot when I approach the tank. He just goes absolutely
mental and would probably throw himself out of the tank if he wasn't so
chubby.

Local vets told me no way on the antibiotics - they'd never even heard of a
goldfish swallowing stones, so I'm going to look around if I get time and
see if any of the other local vets will help.

> wrote in message
...
> can you get potassium permanganate? KMNO4? it is used in water
softening.
> http://users.megapathdsl.net/~solo/puregold/disease/disease.htm
> in the treatment says how to make up stock solution. this stuff really
kills
> columnaris on the outside. so you cannot get antibiotics for inside the
tank? not
> even sulfa type antibiotics? for food, just soak the dry food in the
antibiotic in a
> little water. you might consider ordering it online for future fish.
Ingrid

[[email protected]]

this is internal infection, possibly infected eggs. get the heat isnt up to 84o and
if you cannot inject antibiotics I am not sure this fish is going to make it, sorry.
Ingrid


"George Thompson" > wrote:
>The anal port on my chocolate oranda has enlarged considerably and is very
>red.

>Local vets told me no way on the antibiotics - they'd never even heard of a
>goldfish swallowing stones, so I'm going to look around if I get time and
>see if any of the other local vets will help.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[George Thompson]

oh dear, and since the infection had gone down, I was sure he was! I shall
ring round all vets tomorrow!

anyone in Norwich UK who knows where there is a fish vet nearby?

> wrote in message
...
> this is internal infection, possibly infected eggs. get the heat isnt up
to 84o and
> if you cannot inject antibiotics I am not sure this fish is going to make
it, sorry.
> Ingrid
>
>
> "George Thompson" > wrote:
> >The anal port on my chocolate oranda has enlarged considerably and is
very
> >red.
>
> >Local vets told me no way on the antibiotics - they'd never even heard of
a
> >goldfish swallowing stones, so I'm going to look around if I get time and
> >see if any of the other local vets will help.
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> endorsements or recommendations I make.

[George Thompson]

I've found a vet willing, but she needs to know what antibiotic & how much
she should use! She's never injected a fish, so any ideas would help :- )

At least I've found a vet with a little compassion - god only knows what
she'll charge...

> wrote in message
...
> this is internal infection, possibly infected eggs. get the heat isnt up
to 84o and
> if you cannot inject antibiotics I am not sure this fish is going to make
it, sorry.
> Ingrid
>
>
> "George Thompson" > wrote:
> >The anal port on my chocolate oranda has enlarged considerably and is
very
> >red.
>
> >Local vets told me no way on the antibiotics - they'd never even heard of
a
> >goldfish swallowing stones, so I'm going to look around if I get time and
> >see if any of the other local vets will help.
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Azul]

On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 17:24:52 GMT, wrote:

>this is internal infection, possibly infected eggs. get the heat isnt up to 84o and
>if you cannot inject antibiotics I am not sure this fish is going to make it, sorry.
>Ingrid
>
>
>"George Thompson" > wrote:
>>The anal port on my chocolate oranda has enlarged considerably and is very
>>red.
>
>>Local vets told me no way on the antibiotics - they'd never even heard of a
>>goldfish swallowing stones, so I'm going to look around if I get time and
>>see if any of the other local vets will help.
>
This is what happened with Flipper this spring. Put the fish in a
hospital tank. I had a 10G for that purpose. Get some Tri-Sulfa if
you can find it. Aquarium Pharmaceuticals makes it as well as several
other companies. Run the heat up, I put mine up around 80 - 84
degrees and added epsom salt to the water. It took about 3 days
for it to clear up.

Flipper was a bright red from head to tail, looked like blood under
the skin and around the anal port. I can't remember how much
epsom salt to use. One of the galz from here gave me the advice.
Flipper was not eating at all for several days, so it was impossible
to feed antibiotic food.

I did a google search and found the thread that concerned this and
here is nona's info.

>It's 1 tsp epsom salt per gallon of water for 1 to 3 days. When I
>read this I thought it was excessive, but it really did help my fish.

>Nona (another foodie and hapa)

Azul

[Kodiak]

Epsom Salt something you can buy at the pharmacy?
How does it compare advantages/disadvantages to regular salt?
....Kodiak


"Azul" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 17:24:52 GMT, wrote:
>
> >this is internal infection, possibly infected eggs. get the heat isnt up
to 84o and
> >if you cannot inject antibiotics I am not sure this fish is going to make
it, sorry.
> >Ingrid
> >
> >
> >"George Thompson" > wrote:
> >>The anal port on my chocolate oranda has enlarged considerably and is
very
> >>red.
> >
> >>Local vets told me no way on the antibiotics - they'd never even heard
of a
> >>goldfish swallowing stones, so I'm going to look around if I get time
and
> >>see if any of the other local vets will help.
> >
> This is what happened with Flipper this spring. Put the fish in a
> hospital tank. I had a 10G for that purpose. Get some Tri-Sulfa if
> you can find it. Aquarium Pharmaceuticals makes it as well as several
> other companies. Run the heat up, I put mine up around 80 - 84
> degrees and added epsom salt to the water. It took about 3 days
> for it to clear up.
>
> Flipper was a bright red from head to tail, looked like blood under
> the skin and around the anal port. I can't remember how much
> epsom salt to use. One of the galz from here gave me the advice.
> Flipper was not eating at all for several days, so it was impossible
> to feed antibiotic food.
>
> I did a google search and found the thread that concerned this and
> here is nona's info.
>
> >It's 1 tsp epsom salt per gallon of water for 1 to 3 days. When I
> >read this I thought it was excessive, but it really did help my fish.
>
> >Nona (another foodie and hapa)
>
> Azul

[Azul]

Yes, you can buy it at a pharmacy, but this is not something you would
use everyday in a tank. It is a treatment and then you take it out.
Do a Google search for my email address and find the threads on
Flipper and it will give all the info on his/her condition.

It was really weird, cause he would get better, then overnight his
whole body would turn red again. His stomach was hard, but there
was never any pineconing. I was treating with just antibiotic and
heat till I was told about the epsom salt and that with the antibiotic
seemed to do the trick. He has been fine ever since.

Oh BTW, I even put a grain of epsom salt in a pea and fed it to him a
couple of times.


On Fri, 5 Dec 2003 03:09:26 -0500, "Kodiak" > wrote:

>Epsom Salt something you can buy at the pharmacy?
>How does it compare advantages/disadvantages to regular salt?
>...Kodiak
>
>
>"Azul" > wrote in message
...
>> On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 17:24:52 GMT, wrote:
>>
>> >this is internal infection, possibly infected eggs. get the heat isnt up
>to 84o and
>> >if you cannot inject antibiotics I am not sure this fish is going to make
>it, sorry.
>> >Ingrid
>> >
>> >
>> >"George Thompson" > wrote:
>> >>The anal port on my chocolate oranda has enlarged considerably and is
>very
>> >>red.
>> >
>> >>Local vets told me no way on the antibiotics - they'd never even heard
>of a
>> >>goldfish swallowing stones, so I'm going to look around if I get time
>and
>> >>see if any of the other local vets will help.
>> >
>> This is what happened with Flipper this spring. Put the fish in a
>> hospital tank. I had a 10G for that purpose. Get some Tri-Sulfa if
>> you can find it. Aquarium Pharmaceuticals makes it as well as several
>> other companies. Run the heat up, I put mine up around 80 - 84
>> degrees and added epsom salt to the water. It took about 3 days
>> for it to clear up.
>>
>> Flipper was a bright red from head to tail, looked like blood under
>> the skin and around the anal port. I can't remember how much
>> epsom salt to use. One of the galz from here gave me the advice.
>> Flipper was not eating at all for several days, so it was impossible
>> to feed antibiotic food.
>>
>> I did a google search and found the thread that concerned this and
>> here is nona's info.
>>
>> >It's 1 tsp epsom salt per gallon of water for 1 to 3 days. When I
>> >read this I thought it was excessive, but it really did help my fish.
>>
>> >Nona (another foodie and hapa)
>>
>> Azul
>


Azul

[[email protected]]

http://users.megapathdsl.net/~solo/puregold/disease/treatment/what1.htm#Injecting%20antibiotics
Injecting antibiotics
I use Baytril that I get from my vet. Baytril is very stable in the refrigerator
when reconstituted with water. Always ask about stability after reconstitution since
some antibiotics become toxic when they degrade. Some must be hydrated and used
immediately.
The injection site I use is 1/2 way between the ventral fins and the anal port,
just off to one side of the midline. There is a sinus there. Put the bevel of the
needle up, slip under a scale and in at a shallow angle, no more than 45o . Push the
plunger in. If it won't go in, or the antibiotic squirts out, the needle was not
into the sinus. Hold the plunger down when removing the needle.
Goldfish are easy to hold for injections with their head and gills in the water.
They don't struggle when upside down. The only way I have been able to inject Koi is
to put them into a plastic bag to confine them and cover their eyes. They can also
be injected thru a plastic bag.
For goldfish, Baytril is used at 0.1cc per 6 inches of fish. For koi, it is 0.1
cc per 6 inches, with an additional 0.1 cc for fish over 18 inches that are big
around. Two injections can be given 48 hours apart.
Ingrid

"George Thompson" > wrote:

>I've found a vet willing, but she needs to know what antibiotic & how much
>she should use! She's never injected a fish, so any ideas would help :- )
>
>At least I've found a vet with a little compassion - god only knows what
>she'll charge...


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[George Thompson]

£20... oh well

> wrote in message
...
>
http://users.megapathdsl.net/~solo/puregold/disease/treatment/what1.htm#Injecting%20antibiotics
> Injecting antibiotics
> I use Baytril that I get from my vet. Baytril is very stable in the
refrigerator
> when reconstituted with water. Always ask about stability after
reconstitution since
> some antibiotics become toxic when they degrade. Some must be hydrated
and used
> immediately.
> The injection site I use is 1/2 way between the ventral fins and the
anal port,
> just off to one side of the midline. There is a sinus there. Put the
bevel of the
> needle up, slip under a scale and in at a shallow angle, no more than 45o
.. Push the
> plunger in. If it won't go in, or the antibiotic squirts out, the needle
was not
> into the sinus. Hold the plunger down when removing the needle.
> Goldfish are easy to hold for injections with their head and gills in
the water.
> They don't struggle when upside down. The only way I have been able to
inject Koi is
> to put them into a plastic bag to confine them and cover their eyes. They
can also
> be injected thru a plastic bag.
> For goldfish, Baytril is used at 0.1cc per 6 inches of fish. For koi,
it is 0.1
> cc per 6 inches, with an additional 0.1 cc for fish over 18 inches that
are big
> around. Two injections can be given 48 hours apart.
> Ingrid

[George Thompson]

Baytril it was - 2.5%? We injected 0.05cc as he is a 3" fish. Not the
first time this vet has injected a fish, and her prefered method is on the
top of the fish between the head and dorsel fin.

We'll see how (s)he does... if it is infected eggs, is there anything I
ought to look out for? so far all poop has been a kinda reddy brown
colo(u)r

I have a visit on Sunday Morning, which is a little less than 42hrs later
for a re-injection. Does this sound OK?

"George Thompson" > wrote in message
...
> £20... oh well
>
> > wrote in message
> ...
> >
>
http://users.megapathdsl.net/~solo/puregold/disease/treatment/what1.htm#Injecting%20antibiotics
> > Injecting antibiotics
> > I use Baytril that I get from my vet.

[[email protected]]

yes, the top is another good place for experts especially when the abdomen is
distended. yea, baytril is sorta standard
for infected eggs treat as for dropsy, epsom salts and heat 84oF but MUST provide
good aeration.
ruddy brown is blood most likely, but if she isnt oozing greenish OR the water doesnt
stink she could well make it!!!!!!!
sunday morning sounds fine. I dont like to put the injections 24 hrs apart cause if
they do make it this could cause damage to organs.
egg bound fish often wobble in the water, a bit head down, it is subtle. but if she
starts swimming around "booking" picking around looking for food this is a good sign.

Ingrid

"George Thompson" > wrote:

> Baytril it was - 2.5%? We injected 0.05cc as he is a 3" fish. Not the
>first time this vet has injected a fish, and her prefered method is on the
>top of the fish between the head and dorsel fin.
>
>We'll see how (s)he does... if it is infected eggs, is there anything I
>ought to look out for? so far all poop has been a kinda reddy brown
>colo(u)r
>
>I have a visit on Sunday Morning, which is a little less than 42hrs later
>for a re-injection. Does this sound OK?
>


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[George Thompson]

Well, at least I know it's a she now... I'll isolate her from the shubunkin
who has been chasing her for months... I now know why! - he's doing it to
the goldfish now, so I'm paying close attention.

Fish won't eat sinking pellets, but loves the cheap flake food. This is
fortified with vitamins, and I soak it first, so it'll have to do. Comet &
catfish love the sinking food. Typical

The oranda's water is fine. I've done a 30% water change and the lump has
gone down and the scales are growing back. Poop is occasionally
transparent, so I'm presuming this is because of air in flakes and possibly
eggs?

She's head down & wobbling. Moving around a lot more after the injection.
Surely it's too early for that, but never mind... Unfortunately the vet
knocked off a scale, but with a 3" goldfish, I don't think she could help
it. The fish is feeding around a bit.

Should I remove the salt. Because I've removed 30% of the water, should I
just put in epsom salts? or do a complete water change?

Well, if she survives, it's money well spent IMHO.

If she doesn't, I'm turning her tank into a tropical paradise for my
catfish.

My next new post will be "adding up the love" - a historical breakdown of
the entire cost of fishkeeping in my house(s)

> wrote in message
...
> yes, the top is another good place for experts especially when the abdomen
is
> distended. yea, baytril is sorta standard
> for infected eggs treat as for dropsy, epsom salts and heat 84oF but MUST
provide
> good aeration.
> ruddy brown is blood most likely, but if she isnt oozing greenish OR the
water doesnt
> stink she could well make it!!!!!!!
> sunday morning sounds fine. I dont like to put the injections 24 hrs
apart cause if
> they do make it this could cause damage to organs.
> egg bound fish often wobble in the water, a bit head down, it is subtle.
but if she
> starts swimming around "booking" picking around looking for food this is a
good sign.
>
> Ingrid
>
> "George Thompson" > wrote:
>
> > Baytril it was - 2.5%? We injected 0.05cc as he is a 3" fish. Not the
> >first time this vet has injected a fish, and her prefered method is on
the
> >top of the fish between the head and dorsel fin.
> >
> >We'll see how (s)he does... if it is infected eggs, is there anything I
> >ought to look out for? so far all poop has been a kinda reddy brown
> >colo(u)r
> >
> >I have a visit on Sunday Morning, which is a little less than 42hrs later
> >for a re-injection. Does this sound OK?
> >
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> endorsements or recommendations I make.

[BErney1014]

>I've found a vet willing, but she needs to know what antibiotic & how much
>she should use! She's never injected a fish, so any ideas would help :-
>)

The following is from Veterinarian conferences for continued education. This is
the very latest info, you can give it to your Vet, good luck.
==========
Baytril
5-10 mg/kg IM, PO or ICe (IP) every 48 hours for 7-21 days. The bath dose is
2.5 mg/L for 5 hours once daily.

[[email protected]]

yes, clear is reabsorbed eggs. if you mean reacting well to the antibiotic, yes,
that happens fast. yes, put in some epsom and by your next water change more of the
nacl will be gone, then add some more epsom.
I know it is expensive, but it is a learning curve too. next time catch the problem
early, use the actually cheap cures. well except for the baytril. my vet gives me a
syringe full for nothing, course I have 6 dogs I bring to him all the time.
Ingrid

"Poop is occasionally
>transparent, so I'm presuming this is because of air in flakes and possibly
>eggs?
>
>She's head down & wobbling. Moving around a lot more after the injection.
>Surely it's too early for that, but never mind... Unfortunately the vet
>knocked off a scale, but with a 3" goldfish, I don't think she could help
>it. The fish is feeding around a bit.
>
>Should I remove the salt. Because I've removed 30% of the water, should I
>just put in epsom salts? or do a complete water change?
>
>Well, if she survives, it's money well spent IMHO.
>
>If she doesn't, I'm turning her tank into a tropical paradise for my
>catfish.
>
>My next new post will be "adding up the love" - a historical breakdown of
>the entire cost of fishkeeping in my house(s)



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[George Thompson]

her anal port is still bigger. I have been unable to go for the 2nd
injection today. Will go tomorrow. Should the dose be increased?


George Thompson wrote:

> Well, at least I know it's a she now... I'll isolate her from the shubunkin
> who has been chasing her for months... I now know why! - he's doing it to
> the goldfish now, so I'm paying close attention.
>
> Fish won't eat sinking pellets, but loves the cheap flake food. This is
> fortified with vitamins, and I soak it first, so it'll have to do. Comet &
> catfish love the sinking food. Typical
>
> The oranda's water is fine. I've done a 30% water change and the lump has
> gone down and the scales are growing back. Poop is occasionally
> transparent, so I'm presuming this is because of air in flakes and possibly
> eggs?
>
> She's head down & wobbling. Moving around a lot more after the injection.
> Surely it's too early for that, but never mind... Unfortunately the vet
> knocked off a scale, but with a 3" goldfish, I don't think she could help
> it. The fish is feeding around a bit.
>
> Should I remove the salt. Because I've removed 30% of the water, should I
> just put in epsom salts? or do a complete water change?
>
> Well, if she survives, it's money well spent IMHO.
>
> If she doesn't, I'm turning her tank into a tropical paradise for my
> catfish.
>
> My next new post will be "adding up the love" - a historical breakdown of
> the entire cost of fishkeeping in my house(s)
>
> > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>yes, the top is another good place for experts especially when the abdomen
>
> is
>
>>distended. yea, baytril is sorta standard
>>for infected eggs treat as for dropsy, epsom salts and heat 84oF but MUST
>
> provide
>
>>good aeration.
>>ruddy brown is blood most likely, but if she isnt oozing greenish OR the
>
> water doesnt
>
>>stink she could well make it!!!!!!!
>>sunday morning sounds fine. I dont like to put the injections 24 hrs
>
> apart cause if
>
>>they do make it this could cause damage to organs.
>>egg bound fish often wobble in the water, a bit head down, it is subtle.
>
> but if she
>
>>starts swimming around "booking" picking around looking for food this is a
>
> good sign.
>
>>Ingrid
>>
>>"George Thompson" > wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Baytril it was - 2.5%? We injected 0.05cc as he is a 3" fish. Not the
>>>first time this vet has injected a fish, and her prefered method is on
>
> the
>
>>>top of the fish between the head and dorsel fin.
>>>
>>>We'll see how (s)he does... if it is infected eggs, is there anything I
>>>ought to look out for? so far all poop has been a kinda reddy brown
>>>colo(u)r
>>>
>>>I have a visit on Sunday Morning, which is a little less than 42hrs later
>>>for a re-injection. Does this sound OK?
>>>
>>
>>
>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
>>http://puregold.aquaria.net/
>>www.drsolo.com
>>Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
>>compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
>>endorsements or recommendations I make.
>
>
>

[[email protected]]

no, I wouldnt increase the dose, but maybe a third dose 48 hours after the second.
what is the temp? Ingrid

George Thompson > wrote:

>her anal port is still bigger. I have been unable to go for the 2nd
>injection today. Will go tomorrow. Should the dose be increased?
>
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[George Thompson]

I have the temperature gauge set at 84'F, but my thermometer disagrees.
Since I accidently bought the most expensive heater for my tank, I
believe the heater.

wrote:
> no, I wouldnt increase the dose, but maybe a third dose 48 hours after the second.
> what is the temp? Ingrid
>
> George Thompson > wrote:
>
>
>>her anal port is still bigger. I have been unable to go for the 2nd
>>injection today. Will go tomorrow. Should the dose be increased?
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> endorsements or recommendations I make.

[George Thompson]

Most people claim that something has all the bells and whistles on it. Mine
does actually whistle... (the heater)

"George Thompson" > wrote in message
...
> I have the temperature gauge set at 84'F, but my thermometer disagrees.
> Since I accidently bought the most expensive heater for my tank, I
> believe the heater.
>
> wrote:
> > no, I wouldnt increase the dose, but maybe a third dose 48 hours after
the second.
> > what is the temp? Ingrid
> >
> > George Thompson > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>her anal port is still bigger. I have been unable to go for the 2nd
> >>injection today. Will go tomorrow. Should the dose be increased?
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> > http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> > www.drsolo.com
> > Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> > compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> > endorsements or recommendations I make.

[George Thompson]

Well, Vet has given second dose. Fish was very stressed and lost
another scale. She didn't listen to my 45' theory. She's given me a
thermometer with the antibiotic in it for the third. Should I
refrigerate it?



wrote:
> no, I wouldnt increase the dose, but maybe a third dose 48 hours after the second.
> what is the temp? Ingrid
>
> George Thompson > wrote:
>
>
>>her anal port is still bigger. I have been unable to go for the 2nd
>>injection today. Will go tomorrow. Should the dose be increased?
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> endorsements or recommendations I make.

[[email protected]]

yes, in the frig... but a thermometer?? Ingrid

George Thompson > wrote:

>Well, Vet has given second dose. Fish was very stressed and lost
>another scale. She didn't listen to my 45' theory. She's given me a
>thermometer with the antibiotic in it for the third. Should I
>refrigerate it?



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[George Thompson]

Oops, guess I should watch Scrubs and type at the same time...

On a more serious note, the fish swimming oddly. She is leaning with
her injured side up. Fish poop is now the colo(u)r of food, but
occasionally it is thread like and white. I think the anal port is
going down (not quite so red or quite so large).

The medicine she gave me is in a Syringe. She's given me 0.10cc of the
antibiotic, to mix with the food. How should I do that? Should I inject
it instead myself? (obviously not all of it)

What she's done is a little naughty - I've been told not to throw away
the needle and return to the vets when I'm done.

wrote:
> yes, in the frig... but a thermometer?? Ingrid
>
> George Thompson > wrote:
>
>
>>Well, Vet has given second dose. Fish was very stressed and lost
>>another scale. She didn't listen to my 45' theory. She's given me a
>>thermometer with the antibiotic in it for the third. Should I
>>refrigerate it?

[[email protected]]

dont inject yourself. you could harm the fish. if you have dry pellets, soak the
pellets in the baytril, feed a couple at a time. frig the rest. just keep up the
heat and epsom and pristine clean water and hope for the best. when fish curl like
that they have gastric distress and/or no energy. If she is eating the curling is
caused by gastric problem (well we know that). Ingrid

George Thompson > wrote:

>Oops, guess I should watch Scrubs and type at the same time...
>
>On a more serious note, the fish swimming oddly. She is leaning with
>her injured side up. Fish poop is now the colo(u)r of food, but
>occasionally it is thread like and white. I think the anal port is
>going down (not quite so red or quite so large).
>
>The medicine she gave me is in a Syringe. She's given me 0.10cc of the
>antibiotic, to mix with the food. How should I do that? Should I inject
>it instead myself? (obviously not all of it)
>
>What she's done is a little naughty - I've been told not to throw away
>the needle and return to the vets when I'm done.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[George Thompson]

Does three water changes a day constitute pristine?

Well, actually I'm hoovering out the crap at the bottom, and doing a 5%
water change to make up for the bad water I removed.

My dry food is sinking food. Is that OK? (I presume so...)

spake down unto George:

> dont inject yourself. you could harm the fish. if you have dry pellets, soak the
> pellets in the baytril, feed a couple at a time. frig the rest. just keep up the
> heat and epsom and pristine clean water and hope for the best. when fish curl like
> that they have gastric distress and/or no energy. If she is eating the curling is
> caused by gastric problem (well we know that). Ingrid

[[email protected]]

yes, get the crap out. sinking is good. Ingrid

George Thompson > wrote:
>Does three water changes a day constitute pristine?
>
>Well, actually I'm hoovering out the crap at the bottom, and doing a 5%
>water change to make up for the bad water I removed.
>
>My dry food is sinking food. Is that OK? (I presume so...)
>
spake down unto George:
>
>> dont inject yourself. you could harm the fish. if you have dry pellets, soak the
>> pellets in the baytril, feed a couple at a time. frig the rest. just keep up the
>> heat and epsom and pristine clean water and hope for the best. when fish curl like
>> that they have gastric distress and/or no energy. If she is eating the curling is
>> caused by gastric problem (well we know that). Ingrid



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.