humane killing of a 3" goldfish please

[Nick Jones]

Hello all,

One of my goldfish has I'm pretty sure Dropsy and is in a mess. I may need
to kill it myself as it's bad enough to watch.

http://www.geocities.com/tony2kuk/fishkill.html

I read this, any thoughts please on a quick and painless way?

Any replies that might come ASAP will be greatly appreciated.

Nick Jones (UK)

[Bjørn-Eddie Aarøe]

"Nick Jones" > wrote in message
...
> Hello all,
>
> One of my goldfish has I'm pretty sure Dropsy and is in a mess. I may need
> to kill it myself as it's bad enough to watch.
>
> http://www.geocities.com/tony2kuk/fishkill.html
>
> I read this, any thoughts please on a quick and painless way?
>
> Any replies that might come ASAP will be greatly appreciated.
>
> Nick Jones (UK)
>
Plastic bag and a shotgun.
It is both quick and painless since the fish dies faster than its nerves can
register any pain.
The downside: not very pretty...
Maybe a "Best for the fish, worst for the owner" scenario?

Bjørn-Eddie Aarøe

[[email protected]]

dropsy is treatable.
http://users.megapathdsl.net/~solo/puregold/disease/symptom/byname.htm#dropsy
Ingrid

"Nick Jones" > wrote:

>Hello all,
>
>One of my goldfish has I'm pretty sure Dropsy and is in a mess. I may need
>to kill it myself as it's bad enough to watch.
>
>http://www.geocities.com/tony2kuk/fishkill.html
>
>I read this, any thoughts please on a quick and painless way?
>
>Any replies that might come ASAP will be greatly appreciated.
>
>Nick Jones (UK)
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Donald Kerns]

Nick Jones wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> One of my goldfish has I'm pretty sure Dropsy and is in a mess. I may
> need to kill it myself as it's bad enough to watch.
>
> http://www.geocities.com/tony2kuk/fishkill.html
>
> I read this, any thoughts please on a quick and painless way?

The best discussion I've found...

http://fp.marksfish.f9.co.uk/euthanasia.htm

But give treating it a try first!

-D
--
"Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving
that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the
proof." -Galbraith's Law

[Geezer From Freezer]

_Scott_ wrote:
>
> The most humane way I have heard of it to put it in a bag with water and pop
> it in the freezer
>
> cheers
> Scott

I would use oil of cloves, not freezing it. Can you imagine the iced blood in
it's veins - it could
probably feel that if it hadn't passed out.

[Miss Vikki Australia / Mystery Girl]

Well you could make sure it has a vast amount of water in the after life a
ceremonial toilet flushing
perhaps but I am not sure if this would be allowed where you live

I am in Melbourne Australia and I think Melbourne water would frown on it or
perhaps head of the
sewerage plant smiles ?

"Geezer From Freezer" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> _Scott_ wrote:
> >
> > The most humane way I have heard of it to put it in a bag with water and
pop
> > it in the freezer
> >
> > cheers
> > Scott
>
> I would use oil of cloves, not freezing it. Can you imagine the iced blood
in
> it's veins - it could
> probably feel that if it hadn't passed out.

[Mel]

I use clove oil. You can buy it in little bottles in Boots the chemist (and
probably all other chemists). Put the fish in a small container of tank
water (I use a tupperware box), then mix the clove oil in a jam jar with
some tnak water and shake until it goes white. Gradually add a fewd rops at
a time into the fish's container. Swish with your hand an they will go to
sleep. Once you can't see any gilll movement, leave for 10 minutes then put
in the freezer just in case.
Mel.


"Donald Kerns" > wrote in message
...
> Nick Jones wrote:
>
> > Hello all,
> >
> > One of my goldfish has I'm pretty sure Dropsy and is in a mess. I may
> > need to kill it myself as it's bad enough to watch.
> >
> > http://www.geocities.com/tony2kuk/fishkill.html
> >
> > I read this, any thoughts please on a quick and painless way?
>
> The best discussion I've found...
>
> http://fp.marksfish.f9.co.uk/euthanasia.htm
>
> But give treating it a try first!
>
> -D
> --
> "Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving
> that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the
> proof." -Galbraith's Law

[Mel]

Flushing a fish down the toilet is extremely cruel. It would take them ages
to die.
Mel.


"Miss Vikki Australia / Mystery Girl" > wrote in
message ...
> Well you could make sure it has a vast amount of water in the after life a
> ceremonial toilet flushing
> perhaps but I am not sure if this would be allowed where you live
>
> I am in Melbourne Australia and I think Melbourne water would frown on it
or
> perhaps head of the
> sewerage plant smiles ?
>
> "Geezer From Freezer" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> > _Scott_ wrote:
> > >
> > > The most humane way I have heard of it to put it in a bag with water
and
> pop
> > > it in the freezer
> > >
> > > cheers
> > > Scott
> >
> > I would use oil of cloves, not freezing it. Can you imagine the iced
blood
> in
> > it's veins - it could
> > probably feel that if it hadn't passed out.
>
>

[Geezer From Freezer]

Miss Vikki - would you like to be flushed down the toilet? I thought not,
neither do
fish - people who do that have got no thought for the wellfare of animals!
Can you imagine poor little fishy flapping around in other peoples pi?? and sh??
- how
horrible!

[Miss Vikki Australia / Mystery Girl]

They had already died buy that time I would never flush a half dead one oh
no only the ones that had already carked it


"Geezer From Freezer" > wrote in message
...
> Miss Vikki - would you like to be flushed down the toilet? I thought not,
> neither do
> fish - people who do that have got no thought for the wellfare of animals!
> Can you imagine poor little fishy flapping around in other peoples pi??
and sh??
> - how
> horrible!

[charlie]

Hello Nick,

I've had to depend on euthanasia to bring to an end a sick fish at
times. The quickest, most painless way is to prepare an ice bath. Fill
a bowl with ice, had water to the level of the ice and put the fish in
completely covered. It puts them to sleep quick, 30 seconds it's all
over.

charlie

[T]

Or the ice bath shocks thier system.. I reality for aquariums I use the
frdige.. Slowly cooling down the bowl of water with tropicals is fine, now
GF .. that is a different story because they can live in the cool/cold water
no problem, thier metabolisim seriously slows down. I suppose the shock of
water tempeture change might do it, worked fine for guppies...

Timmer..


"charlie" > wrote in message
...
>
> Hello Nick,
>
> I've had to depend on euthanasia to bring to an end a sick fish at
> times. The quickest, most painless way is to prepare an ice bath. Fill
> a bowl with ice, had water to the level of the ice and put the fish in
> completely covered. It puts them to sleep quick, 30 seconds it's all
> over.
>
> charlie
>

[Geezer From Freezer]

I always bury my bigger fish. Little tiny fry will go on the back lawn, to
"sleep" in the
stars!

[MartinOsirus]

easiest way - is put in a plastic bag and put in freezer.

[Geezer From Freezer]

MartinOsirus wrote:
>
> easiest way - is put in a plastic bag and put in freezer.

Easiest yes, nicest no!

[[email protected]]

freezing is not painful.... ask people who have almost died from hypothermia. cold
numbs the pain receptors and the fish is feeling nothing at all when it finally
freezes. be sure to keep the fish in the freezer for a couple days. Ingrid


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Donald Kerns]

wrote:

> freezing is not painful.... ask people who have almost died from
> hypothermia. cold numbs the pain receptors and the fish is feeling
> nothing at all when it finally
> freezes. be sure to keep the fish in the freezer for a couple days.
> Ingrid

Not sure an analogy between a warm blooded mammal and a fish is valid in
this case. There still exists considerable debate within the scientific
community if fish feel pain _at all_.

Given that, there is, for me at least, a significant uncertainty to the
"humaneness" of killing a fish by freezing.

So, for me, I use the "clove oil/alcohol combination anesthetic
overdose" method.

Is it a PITA to find everything and administer? Yes.

But by my lights, it seems the method that stands the strongest chance
of being "humane" in face of significant uncertainty.

-D
--
"Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving
that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the
proof." -Galbraith's Law

[[email protected]]

right.. for us cold water is painful whereas for fish it most likely isnt.
I wont suggest you inhale the clove/alcohol combo, but rub some on your nasal
passages and see how gentle it really is. their gills are sensitive. one reason I
prefer cold water for numbing going into frozen. Ingrid

Donald Kerns > wrote:
>Not sure an analogy between a warm blooded mammal and a fish is valid in
>this case. There still exists considerable debate within the scientific
>community if fish feel pain _at all_.
>
>Given that, there is, for me at least, a significant uncertainty to the
>"humaneness" of killing a fish by freezing.
>
>So, for me, I use the "clove oil/alcohol combination anesthetic
>overdose" method.
>
>Is it a PITA to find everything and administer? Yes.
>
>But by my lights, it seems the method that stands the strongest chance
>of being "humane" in face of significant uncertainty.
>
>-D



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[George Thompson]

I have been conversing with Nick. His fish passed away during the night
some three days ago!

> wrote in message
...
> right.. for us cold water is painful whereas for fish it most likely isnt.
> I wont suggest you inhale the clove/alcohol combo, but rub some on your
nasal
> passages and see how gentle it really is. their gills are sensitive. one
reason I
> prefer cold water for numbing going into frozen. Ingrid
>
> Donald Kerns > wrote:
> >Not sure an analogy between a warm blooded mammal and a fish is valid in
> >this case. There still exists considerable debate within the scientific
> >community if fish feel pain _at all_.
> >
> >Given that, there is, for me at least, a significant uncertainty to the
> >"humaneness" of killing a fish by freezing.
> >
> >So, for me, I use the "clove oil/alcohol combination anesthetic
> >overdose" method.
> >
> >Is it a PITA to find everything and administer? Yes.
> >
> >But by my lights, it seems the method that stands the strongest chance
> >of being "humane" in face of significant uncertainty.
> >
> >-D

[Donald Kerns]

wrote:

> right.. for us cold water is painful whereas for fish it most likely
> isnt. I wont suggest you inhale the clove/alcohol combo, but rub some
> on your nasal
> passages and see how gentle it really is. their gills are sensitive.
> one reason I
> prefer cold water for numbing going into frozen. Ingrid
>

OK, I'm an "try the experiment" sorta guy.

Next time I face the unfortunate task of killing one of my fish I will
perform the experiment. Alcohol/eugenol/water solution at the same
concentration as used on the fish.

Oye, try explaining THAT to LE

"Well officer, I had to put my fish down and... well I was wondering how
it feels and well... That's how I got a snoot-full. HONEST!"

Seeing that clove oil is also sold as a topical anesthesia for
tooth-ache and temporary fillings, only the alcohol should cause a
problem.

Working the math for a first order estimate...

The recommended level is 2ml of clove oil 8ml of alcohol in one gallon
of water (~3800ml). Assuming pure alcohol that would be... ah...0.4
proof plus a 0.05% solution of something that is supposed to be used at
full strength on humans.

Yeah, I'll sign up for that. I did worse at parties in college. ;-)

-D
--
My mother peddles opium, my father's on the dole.
My sister used to walk the streets, but now she's on parole,
My brother runs a restaurant with bedrooms in the rear,
But they don't even speak to me, 'cause I'm an Engineer.

[Mel]

You don't need to use alcohol with the clove oil. It works just fine on it's
own if you shake it up well with a bit of tank water in a jar prior to
using. I should imagine that the alcohol would cause distress to the fish.


"Donald Kerns" > wrote in message
...
> wrote:
>
> > right.. for us cold water is painful whereas for fish it most likely
> > isnt. I wont suggest you inhale the clove/alcohol combo, but rub some
> > on your nasal
> > passages and see how gentle it really is. their gills are sensitive.
> > one reason I
> > prefer cold water for numbing going into frozen. Ingrid
> >
>
> OK, I'm an "try the experiment" sorta guy.
>
> Next time I face the unfortunate task of killing one of my fish I will
> perform the experiment. Alcohol/eugenol/water solution at the same
> concentration as used on the fish.
>
> Oye, try explaining THAT to LE
>
> "Well officer, I had to put my fish down and... well I was wondering how
> it feels and well... That's how I got a snoot-full. HONEST!"
>
> Seeing that clove oil is also sold as a topical anesthesia for
> tooth-ache and temporary fillings, only the alcohol should cause a
> problem.
>
> Working the math for a first order estimate...
>
> The recommended level is 2ml of clove oil 8ml of alcohol in one gallon
> of water (~3800ml). Assuming pure alcohol that would be... ah...0.4
> proof plus a 0.05% solution of something that is supposed to be used at
> full strength on humans.
>
> Yeah, I'll sign up for that. I did worse at parties in college. ;-)
>
> -D
> --
> My mother peddles opium, my father's on the dole.
> My sister used to walk the streets, but now she's on parole,
> My brother runs a restaurant with bedrooms in the rear,
> But they don't even speak to me, 'cause I'm an Engineer.
>

[Tom La Bron]

Folks,

First, you are associating your pain with that of a fish. Fish have two
receptors, humans/mammals have four. Different levels of sensation,
totally.

A British book that I have about Goldfish, suggests wrapping the fish in a
towel and whacking it on a stone paver.

Or you can put the fish in a tub of water, bring it to the kitchen, get out
the cutting board, place it quickly on the board and sever its head with a
large butcher knife.

Even in Freezing as the water starts in that transition period of 32 degree
water to 32 degree ice the fish trashes for bit. I have seen it.

So unless you has access to ms222 and can over dose your fish, no way is
really easy. Clove oil can also be an agonizing experience for you seeing
your fish, if it is not done right. I know people that have tried it and
will never do it again.

Probably the best way is the freezer way because that way you just bag it
and pop it in and close the door and don't have to watch it. Just make sure
you do it at bed time and don't take it out until morning. Hopefully, your
freezer will freeze the water over night.

In any event, generally there is not real easy way for the hobbyist person
to do this.

HTH

Tom L.L.
"Donald Kerns" > wrote in message
...
> wrote:
>
> > right.. for us cold water is painful whereas for fish it most likely
> > isnt. I wont suggest you inhale the clove/alcohol combo, but rub some
> > on your nasal
> > passages and see how gentle it really is. their gills are sensitive.
> > one reason I
> > prefer cold water for numbing going into frozen. Ingrid
> >
>
> OK, I'm an "try the experiment" sorta guy.
>
> Next time I face the unfortunate task of killing one of my fish I will
> perform the experiment. Alcohol/eugenol/water solution at the same
> concentration as used on the fish.
>
> Oye, try explaining THAT to LE
>
> "Well officer, I had to put my fish down and... well I was wondering how
> it feels and well... That's how I got a snoot-full. HONEST!"
>
> Seeing that clove oil is also sold as a topical anesthesia for
> tooth-ache and temporary fillings, only the alcohol should cause a
> problem.
>
> Working the math for a first order estimate...
>
> The recommended level is 2ml of clove oil 8ml of alcohol in one gallon
> of water (~3800ml). Assuming pure alcohol that would be... ah...0.4
> proof plus a 0.05% solution of something that is supposed to be used at
> full strength on humans.
>
> Yeah, I'll sign up for that. I did worse at parties in college. ;-)
>
> -D
> --
> My mother peddles opium, my father's on the dole.
> My sister used to walk the streets, but now she's on parole,
> My brother runs a restaurant with bedrooms in the rear,
> But they don't even speak to me, 'cause I'm an Engineer.
>

[Kodiak]

Damn does the fish really thrash around at 32deg, Oooohh that is so sad...
....:(
About the towel and stone paver, i don't know, I once had the misery of
wacking
a pike on a paved driveway with a baseball bat to try and put it out. It
took 4 Grand slams to
put it out. I swear I will never be in such a predicament again.
....Kodiak


"Tom La Bron" > wrote in message
...
> Folks,
>
> First, you are associating your pain with that of a fish. Fish have two
> receptors, humans/mammals have four. Different levels of sensation,
> totally.
>
> A British book that I have about Goldfish, suggests wrapping the fish in a
> towel and whacking it on a stone paver.
>
> Or you can put the fish in a tub of water, bring it to the kitchen, get
out
> the cutting board, place it quickly on the board and sever its head with a
> large butcher knife.
>
> Even in Freezing as the water starts in that transition period of 32
degree
> water to 32 degree ice the fish trashes for bit. I have seen it.
>
> So unless you has access to ms222 and can over dose your fish, no way is
> really easy. Clove oil can also be an agonizing experience for you
seeing
> your fish, if it is not done right. I know people that have tried it and
> will never do it again.
>
> Probably the best way is the freezer way because that way you just bag it
> and pop it in and close the door and don't have to watch it. Just make
sure
> you do it at bed time and don't take it out until morning. Hopefully,
your
> freezer will freeze the water over night.
>
> In any event, generally there is not real easy way for the hobbyist person
> to do this.
>
> HTH
>
> Tom L.L.
> "Donald Kerns" > wrote in message
> ...
> > wrote:
> >
> > > right.. for us cold water is painful whereas for fish it most likely
> > > isnt. I wont suggest you inhale the clove/alcohol combo, but rub some
> > > on your nasal
> > > passages and see how gentle it really is. their gills are sensitive.
> > > one reason I
> > > prefer cold water for numbing going into frozen. Ingrid
> > >
> >
> > OK, I'm an "try the experiment" sorta guy.
> >
> > Next time I face the unfortunate task of killing one of my fish I will
> > perform the experiment. Alcohol/eugenol/water solution at the same
> > concentration as used on the fish.
> >
> > Oye, try explaining THAT to LE
> >
> > "Well officer, I had to put my fish down and... well I was wondering how
> > it feels and well... That's how I got a snoot-full. HONEST!"
> >
> > Seeing that clove oil is also sold as a topical anesthesia for
> > tooth-ache and temporary fillings, only the alcohol should cause a
> > problem.
> >
> > Working the math for a first order estimate...
> >
> > The recommended level is 2ml of clove oil 8ml of alcohol in one gallon
> > of water (~3800ml). Assuming pure alcohol that would be... ah...0.4
> > proof plus a 0.05% solution of something that is supposed to be used at
> > full strength on humans.
> >
> > Yeah, I'll sign up for that. I did worse at parties in college. ;-)
> >
> > -D
> > --
> > My mother peddles opium, my father's on the dole.
> > My sister used to walk the streets, but now she's on parole,
> > My brother runs a restaurant with bedrooms in the rear,
> > But they don't even speak to me, 'cause I'm an Engineer.
> >
>
>

[Tom La Bron]

Kodiak,

I know what you mean. Having to put a living thing down is one of the
hardest things a person should ever have to do, or at least it should be,
which is why I am glad that I very seldom ever have to deal with it.

The incident that you experienced with the pike though is dealing with a
fish bigger than a Goldfish. You also have to consider that the fish
probably succumbed after the first blow and the result activity of the fish
was probably just nerves. Kind of like cutting the head off a chicken, the
chicken is really dead, but it's body just responding by jumping all over
the place.

HTH

Tom L.L.

Tom L.L.
=====================
"Kodiak" > wrote in message
. ..
> Damn does the fish really thrash around at 32deg, Oooohh that is so sad...
> ...:(
> About the towel and stone paver, i don't know, I once had the misery of
> wacking
> a pike on a paved driveway with a baseball bat to try and put it out. It
> took 4 Grand slams to
> put it out. I swear I will never be in such a predicament again.
> ...Kodiak
>
>
> "Tom La Bron" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Folks,
> >
> > First, you are associating your pain with that of a fish. Fish have two
> > receptors, humans/mammals have four. Different levels of sensation,
> > totally.
> >
> > A British book that I have about Goldfish, suggests wrapping the fish in
a
> > towel and whacking it on a stone paver.
> >
> > Or you can put the fish in a tub of water, bring it to the kitchen, get
> out
> > the cutting board, place it quickly on the board and sever its head with
a
> > large butcher knife.
> >
> > Even in Freezing as the water starts in that transition period of 32
> degree
> > water to 32 degree ice the fish trashes for bit. I have seen it.
> >
> > So unless you has access to ms222 and can over dose your fish, no way is
> > really easy. Clove oil can also be an agonizing experience for you
> seeing
> > your fish, if it is not done right. I know people that have tried it
and
> > will never do it again.
> >
> > Probably the best way is the freezer way because that way you just bag
it
> > and pop it in and close the door and don't have to watch it. Just make
> sure
> > you do it at bed time and don't take it out until morning. Hopefully,
> your
> > freezer will freeze the water over night.
> >
> > In any event, generally there is not real easy way for the hobbyist
person
> > to do this.
> >
> > HTH
> >
> > Tom L.L.
> > "Donald Kerns" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > right.. for us cold water is painful whereas for fish it most likely
> > > > isnt. I wont suggest you inhale the clove/alcohol combo, but rub
some
> > > > on your nasal
> > > > passages and see how gentle it really is. their gills are
sensitive.
> > > > one reason I
> > > > prefer cold water for numbing going into frozen. Ingrid
> > > >
> > >
> > > OK, I'm an "try the experiment" sorta guy.
> > >
> > > Next time I face the unfortunate task of killing one of my fish I will
> > > perform the experiment. Alcohol/eugenol/water solution at the same
> > > concentration as used on the fish.
> > >
> > > Oye, try explaining THAT to LE
> > >
> > > "Well officer, I had to put my fish down and... well I was wondering
how
> > > it feels and well... That's how I got a snoot-full. HONEST!"
> > >
> > > Seeing that clove oil is also sold as a topical anesthesia for
> > > tooth-ache and temporary fillings, only the alcohol should cause a
> > > problem.
> > >
> > > Working the math for a first order estimate...
> > >
> > > The recommended level is 2ml of clove oil 8ml of alcohol in one gallon
> > > of water (~3800ml). Assuming pure alcohol that would be... ah...0.4
> > > proof plus a 0.05% solution of something that is supposed to be used
at
> > > full strength on humans.
> > >
> > > Yeah, I'll sign up for that. I did worse at parties in college. ;-)
> > >
> > > -D
> > > --
> > > My mother peddles opium, my father's on the dole.
> > > My sister used to walk the streets, but now she's on parole,
> > > My brother runs a restaurant with bedrooms in the rear,
> > > But they don't even speak to me, 'cause I'm an Engineer.
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[T]

I have to tell you a story about one of my Bettas I had... My cat knocked
over his bowl before we got home... A three foot drop, There was but a
little insurmountable puddle of water he was laying in, my best guess he was
there for about 20 mins to half an hour. I thought man, this fellow is
toast... To my suprise he wiggled a bit, I jumped back a little suprised,
scooped him of the floor and into a tank, much to my suprise, he was
alive... I know Bettas have a very intresting method of breathing, but never
thought it was this good.. Unfortunantly his dismise came a few monthes
later when he got terribly sick, and well the cat left us a short while
back, seems the local coyotes enjoyed him ( both I actually find rather
saddening ).

Timmer... Cdn in Cali
"Tom La Bron" > wrote in message
...
> Kodiak,
>
> I know what you mean. Having to put a living thing down is one of the
> hardest things a person should ever have to do, or at least it should be,
> which is why I am glad that I very seldom ever have to deal with it.
>
> The incident that you experienced with the pike though is dealing with a
> fish bigger than a Goldfish. You also have to consider that the fish
> probably succumbed after the first blow and the result activity of the
fish
> was probably just nerves. Kind of like cutting the head off a chicken,
the
> chicken is really dead, but it's body just responding by jumping all over
> the place.
>
> HTH
>
> Tom L.L.
>
> Tom L.L.
> =====================
> "Kodiak" > wrote in message
> . ..
> > Damn does the fish really thrash around at 32deg, Oooohh that is so
sad...
> > ...:(
> > About the towel and stone paver, i don't know, I once had the misery of
> > wacking
> > a pike on a paved driveway with a baseball bat to try and put it out. It
> > took 4 Grand slams to
> > put it out. I swear I will never be in such a predicament again.
> > ...Kodiak
> >
> >
> > "Tom La Bron" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Folks,
> > >
> > > First, you are associating your pain with that of a fish. Fish have
two
> > > receptors, humans/mammals have four. Different levels of sensation,
> > > totally.
> > >
> > > A British book that I have about Goldfish, suggests wrapping the fish
in
> a
> > > towel and whacking it on a stone paver.
> > >
> > > Or you can put the fish in a tub of water, bring it to the kitchen,
get
> > out
> > > the cutting board, place it quickly on the board and sever its head
with
> a
> > > large butcher knife.
> > >
> > > Even in Freezing as the water starts in that transition period of 32
> > degree
> > > water to 32 degree ice the fish trashes for bit. I have seen it.
> > >
> > > So unless you has access to ms222 and can over dose your fish, no way
is
> > > really easy. Clove oil can also be an agonizing experience for you
> > seeing
> > > your fish, if it is not done right. I know people that have tried it
> and
> > > will never do it again.
> > >
> > > Probably the best way is the freezer way because that way you just bag
> it
> > > and pop it in and close the door and don't have to watch it. Just
make
> > sure
> > > you do it at bed time and don't take it out until morning. Hopefully,
> > your
> > > freezer will freeze the water over night.
> > >
> > > In any event, generally there is not real easy way for the hobbyist
> person
> > > to do this.
> > >
> > > HTH
> > >
> > > Tom L.L.
> > > "Donald Kerns" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > right.. for us cold water is painful whereas for fish it most
likely
> > > > > isnt. I wont suggest you inhale the clove/alcohol combo, but rub
> some
> > > > > on your nasal
> > > > > passages and see how gentle it really is. their gills are
> sensitive.
> > > > > one reason I
> > > > > prefer cold water for numbing going into frozen. Ingrid
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > OK, I'm an "try the experiment" sorta guy.
> > > >
> > > > Next time I face the unfortunate task of killing one of my fish I
will
> > > > perform the experiment. Alcohol/eugenol/water solution at the same
> > > > concentration as used on the fish.
> > > >
> > > > Oye, try explaining THAT to LE
> > > >
> > > > "Well officer, I had to put my fish down and... well I was wondering
> how
> > > > it feels and well... That's how I got a snoot-full. HONEST!"
> > > >
> > > > Seeing that clove oil is also sold as a topical anesthesia for
> > > > tooth-ache and temporary fillings, only the alcohol should cause a
> > > > problem.
> > > >
> > > > Working the math for a first order estimate...
> > > >
> > > > The recommended level is 2ml of clove oil 8ml of alcohol in one
gallon
> > > > of water (~3800ml). Assuming pure alcohol that would be... ah...0.4
> > > > proof plus a 0.05% solution of something that is supposed to be used
> at
> > > > full strength on humans.
> > > >
> > > > Yeah, I'll sign up for that. I did worse at parties in college.
;-)
> > > >
> > > > -D
> > > > --
> > > > My mother peddles opium, my father's on the dole.
> > > > My sister used to walk the streets, but now she's on parole,
> > > > My brother runs a restaurant with bedrooms in the rear,
> > > > But they don't even speak to me, 'cause I'm an Engineer.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Kodiak]

Tom,
I don't think it was nerves, after the second blow i thought I had him.
15 minutes later i saw the fish move again. then i wacked it again, and 5
minutes later it
moved again. I don't think nerves can last that long. Those freshwater fish
are amazing.

Salt water fish are the opposite. Caught a 15lb Bonita (small tuna) off the
Carolina banks..
straight off the beach with a long fishing rod, took me about 3 minutes to
unhook the fish.
Held it in my hand as i was bringing it back to the water, i could feel it's
heart pounding
and racing in my hand. Just as I was about to drop him in, his heart
stopped. I felt so so bad.
Tried to ressucitate the fish for 15 minutes to no avail. Someone explained
it later,
Seawater fish gills not very good, Sea water has ample oxygenation, hence
not very evolved
gills...

....Kodiak


"Tom La Bron" > wrote in message
...
> Kodiak,
>
> I know what you mean. Having to put a living thing down is one of the
> hardest things a person should ever have to do, or at least it should be,
> which is why I am glad that I very seldom ever have to deal with it.
>
> The incident that you experienced with the pike though is dealing with a
> fish bigger than a Goldfish. You also have to consider that the fish
> probably succumbed after the first blow and the result activity of the
fish
> was probably just nerves. Kind of like cutting the head off a chicken,
the
> chicken is really dead, but it's body just responding by jumping all over
> the place.
>
> HTH
>
> Tom L.L.
>
> Tom L.L.
> =====================
> "Kodiak" > wrote in message
> . ..
> > Damn does the fish really thrash around at 32deg, Oooohh that is so
sad...
> > ...:(
> > About the towel and stone paver, i don't know, I once had the misery of
> > wacking
> > a pike on a paved driveway with a baseball bat to try and put it out. It
> > took 4 Grand slams to
> > put it out. I swear I will never be in such a predicament again.
> > ...Kodiak
> >
> >
> > "Tom La Bron" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Folks,
> > >
> > > First, you are associating your pain with that of a fish. Fish have
two
> > > receptors, humans/mammals have four. Different levels of sensation,
> > > totally.
> > >
> > > A British book that I have about Goldfish, suggests wrapping the fish
in
> a
> > > towel and whacking it on a stone paver.
> > >
> > > Or you can put the fish in a tub of water, bring it to the kitchen,
get
> > out
> > > the cutting board, place it quickly on the board and sever its head
with
> a
> > > large butcher knife.
> > >
> > > Even in Freezing as the water starts in that transition period of 32
> > degree
> > > water to 32 degree ice the fish trashes for bit. I have seen it.
> > >
> > > So unless you has access to ms222 and can over dose your fish, no way
is
> > > really easy. Clove oil can also be an agonizing experience for you
> > seeing
> > > your fish, if it is not done right. I know people that have tried it
> and
> > > will never do it again.
> > >
> > > Probably the best way is the freezer way because that way you just bag
> it
> > > and pop it in and close the door and don't have to watch it. Just
make
> > sure
> > > you do it at bed time and don't take it out until morning. Hopefully,
> > your
> > > freezer will freeze the water over night.
> > >
> > > In any event, generally there is not real easy way for the hobbyist
> person
> > > to do this.
> > >
> > > HTH
> > >
> > > Tom L.L.
> > > "Donald Kerns" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > right.. for us cold water is painful whereas for fish it most
likely
> > > > > isnt. I wont suggest you inhale the clove/alcohol combo, but rub
> some
> > > > > on your nasal
> > > > > passages and see how gentle it really is. their gills are
> sensitive.
> > > > > one reason I
> > > > > prefer cold water for numbing going into frozen. Ingrid
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > OK, I'm an "try the experiment" sorta guy.
> > > >
> > > > Next time I face the unfortunate task of killing one of my fish I
will
> > > > perform the experiment. Alcohol/eugenol/water solution at the same
> > > > concentration as used on the fish.
> > > >
> > > > Oye, try explaining THAT to LE
> > > >
> > > > "Well officer, I had to put my fish down and... well I was wondering
> how
> > > > it feels and well... That's how I got a snoot-full. HONEST!"
> > > >
> > > > Seeing that clove oil is also sold as a topical anesthesia for
> > > > tooth-ache and temporary fillings, only the alcohol should cause a
> > > > problem.
> > > >
> > > > Working the math for a first order estimate...
> > > >
> > > > The recommended level is 2ml of clove oil 8ml of alcohol in one
gallon
> > > > of water (~3800ml). Assuming pure alcohol that would be... ah...0.4
> > > > proof plus a 0.05% solution of something that is supposed to be used
> at
> > > > full strength on humans.
> > > >
> > > > Yeah, I'll sign up for that. I did worse at parties in college.
;-)
> > > >
> > > > -D
> > > > --
> > > > My mother peddles opium, my father's on the dole.
> > > > My sister used to walk the streets, but now she's on parole,
> > > > My brother runs a restaurant with bedrooms in the rear,
> > > > But they don't even speak to me, 'cause I'm an Engineer.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[LoaderLady]

That's apparently a bit of a myth about the chicken, too. When their heads
are cut off, they are still alive. They bleed to death. I saw a
documentary on TV where someone managed to somehow "fix" the artery (I
forget what was done to it), and they kept the headless chicken alive for a
long time (over a year, but I forget exactly) by feeding it through a tube.
I'm not sure why someone would want to do such a thing, but it did prove a
point - a headless chicken is not 'Dead" and acting on nerve impulses, as we
once thought. It's really not dead until it falls down.

It was a few years ago I saw this, and I was doing something else at the
time, and not paying 100% attention, but I got the message. Just thought
I'd share.

--
}<> Tammy <>{
Support the Canakin Project with me, by linking to your favorite store from
this address:
http://www.geocities.com/ontario_canakin All Proceeds will be used to
purchase equipment, fish, etc for the Canakin Project

Watkins Business Opportunity
www.tsginfo.com Enter code TD3796
Me and my fish Thank You!!
"Tom La Bron" > wrote in message
...
> Kodiak,
>
> I know what you mean. Having to put a living thing down is one of the
> hardest things a person should ever have to do, or at least it should be,
> which is why I am glad that I very seldom ever have to deal with it.
>
> The incident that you experienced with the pike though is dealing with a
> fish bigger than a Goldfish. You also have to consider that the fish
> probably succumbed after the first blow and the result activity of the
fish
> was probably just nerves. Kind of like cutting the head off a chicken,
the
> chicken is really dead, but it's body just responding by jumping all over
> the place.
>
> HTH
>
> Tom L.L.
>
> Tom L.L.
> =====================
> "Kodiak" > wrote in message
> . ..
> > Damn does the fish really thrash around at 32deg, Oooohh that is so
sad...
> > ...:(
> > About the towel and stone paver, i don't know, I once had the misery of
> > wacking
> > a pike on a paved driveway with a baseball bat to try and put it out. It
> > took 4 Grand slams to
> > put it out. I swear I will never be in such a predicament again.
> > ...Kodiak
> >
> >
> > "Tom La Bron" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Folks,
> > >
> > > First, you are associating your pain with that of a fish. Fish have
two
> > > receptors, humans/mammals have four. Different levels of sensation,
> > > totally.
> > >
> > > A British book that I have about Goldfish, suggests wrapping the fish
in
> a
> > > towel and whacking it on a stone paver.
> > >
> > > Or you can put the fish in a tub of water, bring it to the kitchen,
get
> > out
> > > the cutting board, place it quickly on the board and sever its head
with
> a
> > > large butcher knife.
> > >
> > > Even in Freezing as the water starts in that transition period of 32
> > degree
> > > water to 32 degree ice the fish trashes for bit. I have seen it.
> > >
> > > So unless you has access to ms222 and can over dose your fish, no way
is
> > > really easy. Clove oil can also be an agonizing experience for you
> > seeing
> > > your fish, if it is not done right. I know people that have tried it
> and
> > > will never do it again.
> > >
> > > Probably the best way is the freezer way because that way you just bag
> it
> > > and pop it in and close the door and don't have to watch it. Just
make
> > sure
> > > you do it at bed time and don't take it out until morning. Hopefully,
> > your
> > > freezer will freeze the water over night.
> > >
> > > In any event, generally there is not real easy way for the hobbyist
> person
> > > to do this.
> > >
> > > HTH
> > >
> > > Tom L.L.
> > > "Donald Kerns" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > right.. for us cold water is painful whereas for fish it most
likely
> > > > > isnt. I wont suggest you inhale the clove/alcohol combo, but rub
> some
> > > > > on your nasal
> > > > > passages and see how gentle it really is. their gills are
> sensitive.
> > > > > one reason I
> > > > > prefer cold water for numbing going into frozen. Ingrid
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > OK, I'm an "try the experiment" sorta guy.
> > > >
> > > > Next time I face the unfortunate task of killing one of my fish I
will
> > > > perform the experiment. Alcohol/eugenol/water solution at the same
> > > > concentration as used on the fish.
> > > >
> > > > Oye, try explaining THAT to LE
> > > >
> > > > "Well officer, I had to put my fish down and... well I was wondering
> how
> > > > it feels and well... That's how I got a snoot-full. HONEST!"
> > > >
> > > > Seeing that clove oil is also sold as a topical anesthesia for
> > > > tooth-ache and temporary fillings, only the alcohol should cause a
> > > > problem.
> > > >
> > > > Working the math for a first order estimate...
> > > >
> > > > The recommended level is 2ml of clove oil 8ml of alcohol in one
gallon
> > > > of water (~3800ml). Assuming pure alcohol that would be... ah...0.4
> > > > proof plus a 0.05% solution of something that is supposed to be used
> at
> > > > full strength on humans.
> > > >
> > > > Yeah, I'll sign up for that. I did worse at parties in college.
;-)
> > > >
> > > > -D
> > > > --
> > > > My mother peddles opium, my father's on the dole.
> > > > My sister used to walk the streets, but now she's on parole,
> > > > My brother runs a restaurant with bedrooms in the rear,
> > > > But they don't even speak to me, 'cause I'm an Engineer.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[George Thompson]

I believe that the head that was cut off was not the entire head. There
was just enough of the brain remaining for the chicken to survive.
There was one farmer who put this to extreme test, and killed a few
hundred in experiment. He did eventually get a chicken that survived
and was fed using a tube. It toured most of the united states until
someone neglected to keep an eye on it and it choked to death.

There has been several scientific studies into it, but to be honest, I
have no wish to look further. I can hardly see how cruel experiments
like that help to further humanity. It just seems something to revive
sideshows.

LoaderLady wrote:
> That's apparently a bit of a myth about the chicken, too. When their heads
> are cut off, they are still alive. They bleed to death. I saw a
> documentary on TV where someone managed to somehow "fix" the artery (I
> forget what was done to it), and they kept the headless chicken alive for a
> long time (over a year, but I forget exactly) by feeding it through a tube.
> I'm not sure why someone would want to do such a thing, but it did prove a
> point - a headless chicken is not 'Dead" and acting on nerve impulses, as we
> once thought. It's really not dead until it falls down.
>
> It was a few years ago I saw this, and I was doing something else at the
> time, and not paying 100% attention, but I got the message. Just thought
> I'd share.
>