What have I done? (Ihope enough)

[D.W.]

My Setup:
10G
Penguin Mini w/Bio Wheel (100 gph)
18" air stone
2 Pearl Scales ("Pearl" and "Bonnet") each about 2 1/4"

Water Test:
Nitrate 20ppm
Nitrite 0
Hardness(GH) Between soft and hard.
Alkalinity(KH) 120ppm
pH 7.2
Ammonia 0

2 15% water changes a week
I try to keep conditions consistantly at these levels.

About a month ago I noticed that Pearl had what looked like veins
(thin red trails), showing prominantly in her tails. She did not show
symptoms like this in any of her other fins and she was very active. I
checked the PureGold website(Thank You Ingrid for such a wonderful
resource) and it indicated nitrite? but my water has been very
consistent(I test weekly) and it had been months since the tank had
cycled. Both had been undergowing color changes around the same time
so I naively thought that maybe this could be part of it.
She hadn't shown any problems since, until now.

Three days ago, she started floating. This I am sure was caused by me
having over fed, and not having soaked the food(TetraFin flakes, peas
occasionally). So I reduced my feedings to twice a day. She got better
and it even looked like the redness in her tails was dissipating, but
then this morning it was worse then ever! Since, I add salt with each
water change, about a 3/4 a tsp, I thought maybe salt had built up
and was causing it. So I did a water change and didn't add salt. Now I
dont know how to proceed. What could be causing her redness. It seems
so strange to me that Bonnet has not shown any symptoms.

Currently, I have imposed on them a few days fast that I will end with
peas. I am wondering though about how to rule out the salt buildup.
Are there Salinity test strips or would I need to by an expensive
meter. Would a LFS be able to do the test for me? Also, are the
conditions they are in adequate for now.
I realize Ingrid, that your website recommends 20 gals., thats why I
have been so diligent with water upkeep. I will be moving next June,
so I want to wait until then so I will only have to move one tank.

You all are really a great community.

Thanks

[George Thompson]

20 Nitrate is high. I'm in Norwich UK and the same is true here. I think
there's some products you can buy to make it safe, but I've not had a chance
to experiment with them...

"D.W." > wrote in message
om...
> My Setup:
> 10G
> Penguin Mini w/Bio Wheel (100 gph)
> 18" air stone
> 2 Pearl Scales ("Pearl" and "Bonnet") each about 2 1/4"
>
> Water Test:
> Nitrate 20ppm
> Nitrite 0
> Hardness(GH) Between soft and hard.
> Alkalinity(KH) 120ppm
> pH 7.2
> Ammonia 0
>
> 2 15% water changes a week
> I try to keep conditions consistantly at these levels.
>
> About a month ago I noticed that Pearl had what looked like veins
> (thin red trails), showing prominantly in her tails. She did not show
> symptoms like this in any of her other fins and she was very active. I
> checked the PureGold website(Thank You Ingrid for such a wonderful
> resource) and it indicated nitrite? but my water has been very
> consistent(I test weekly) and it had been months since the tank had
> cycled. Both had been undergowing color changes around the same time
> so I naively thought that maybe this could be part of it.
> She hadn't shown any problems since, until now.
>
> Three days ago, she started floating. This I am sure was caused by me
> having over fed, and not having soaked the food(TetraFin flakes, peas
> occasionally). So I reduced my feedings to twice a day. She got better
> and it even looked like the redness in her tails was dissipating, but
> then this morning it was worse then ever! Since, I add salt with each
> water change, about a 3/4 a tsp, I thought maybe salt had built up
> and was causing it. So I did a water change and didn't add salt. Now I
> dont know how to proceed. What could be causing her redness. It seems
> so strange to me that Bonnet has not shown any symptoms.
>
> Currently, I have imposed on them a few days fast that I will end with
> peas. I am wondering though about how to rule out the salt buildup.
> Are there Salinity test strips or would I need to by an expensive
> meter. Would a LFS be able to do the test for me? Also, are the
> conditions they are in adequate for now.
> I realize Ingrid, that your website recommends 20 gals., thats why I
> have been so diligent with water upkeep. I will be moving next June,
> so I want to wait until then so I will only have to move one tank.
>
> You all are really a great community.
>
> Thanks

[Gunther]

In article >,
says...
> 20 Nitrate is high. I'm in Norwich UK and the same is true here. I think
> there's some products you can buy to make it safe, but I've not had a chance
> to experiment with them...

20ppm nitrate isn't that high, in itself, but it might
indicate that 2x15%/week isn't agressive enough.
If you can't get a 20G tank, start doing 2x50%/week.
And note that pearls are notoriously sensitive to
water quality.
Gunther

>
> "D.W." > wrote in message
> om...
> > My Setup:
> > 10G
> > Penguin Mini w/Bio Wheel (100 gph)
> > 18" air stone
> > 2 Pearl Scales ("Pearl" and "Bonnet") each about 2 1/4"
> >
> > Water Test:
> > Nitrate 20ppm
> > Nitrite 0
> > Hardness(GH) Between soft and hard.
> > Alkalinity(KH) 120ppm
> > pH 7.2
> > Ammonia 0
> >
> > 2 15% water changes a week
> > I try to keep conditions consistantly at these levels.
> >
> > About a month ago I noticed that Pearl had what looked like veins
> > (thin red trails), showing prominantly in her tails. She did not show
> > symptoms like this in any of her other fins and she was very active. I
> > checked the PureGold website(Thank You Ingrid for such a wonderful
> > resource) and it indicated nitrite? but my water has been very
> > consistent(I test weekly) and it had been months since the tank had
> > cycled. Both had been undergowing color changes around the same time
> > so I naively thought that maybe this could be part of it.
> > She hadn't shown any problems since, until now.
> >
> > Three days ago, she started floating. This I am sure was caused by me
> > having over fed, and not having soaked the food(TetraFin flakes, peas
> > occasionally). So I reduced my feedings to twice a day. She got better
> > and it even looked like the redness in her tails was dissipating, but
> > then this morning it was worse then ever! Since, I add salt with each
> > water change, about a 3/4 a tsp, I thought maybe salt had built up
> > and was causing it. So I did a water change and didn't add salt. Now I
> > dont know how to proceed. What could be causing her redness. It seems
> > so strange to me that Bonnet has not shown any symptoms.
> >
> > Currently, I have imposed on them a few days fast that I will end with
> > peas. I am wondering though about how to rule out the salt buildup.
> > Are there Salinity test strips or would I need to by an expensive
> > meter. Would a LFS be able to do the test for me? Also, are the
> > conditions they are in adequate for now.
> > I realize Ingrid, that your website recommends 20 gals., thats why I
> > have been so diligent with water upkeep. I will be moving next June,
> > so I want to wait until then so I will only have to move one tank.
> >
> > You all are really a great community.
> >
> > Thanks
>
>
>

[[email protected]]

Gunther is right, pearls are sensitive

water changes, water changes, water changes... add 1 teaspoon salt per 5 gallons, no
additives, dissolve first, add slowly.
http://users.megapathdsl.net/~solo/puregold/care/care3.htm#PEARL
big airstone in there to move the ammonia away from the fish while it sleeps.
Ingrid

Gunther > wrote:
>20ppm nitrate isn't that high, in itself, but it might
>indicate that 2x15%/week isn't agressive enough.
>If you can't get a 20G tank, start doing 2x50%/week.
>And note that pearls are notoriously sensitive to
>water quality.
>Gunther


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[D.W.]

I didn't think nitrate was that dangerous to fish. The test strips I
use indicate that 20ppm(mg/L) is safe. Cleaner water can never hurt
though. So, I will change more each time.

I wish I new what had caused it, but overnight, after a whole month,
almost all of the red veins in her tails have disappeared! All I had
changed was the food, they are currently on a fast, and the salt, I
didn't add any the last water change. What seems more likely to have
caused her the problem?


Thank You for the responses.



(D.W.) wrote in message >...
> My Setup:
> 10G
> Penguin Mini w/Bio Wheel (100 gph)
> 18" air stone
> 2 Pearl Scales ("Pearl" and "Bonnet") each about 2 1/4"
>
> Water Test:
> Nitrate 20ppm
> Nitrite 0
> Hardness(GH) Between soft and hard.
> Alkalinity(KH) 120ppm
> pH 7.2
> Ammonia 0
>
> 2 15% water changes a week
> I try to keep conditions consistantly at these levels.
>

[[email protected]]

most info is old and meant for commons, not fancies, not for long flowing fins, not
pearls, not big round fish. it isnt just nitrates, but accumulation of ammonia if
there isnt great aeration the kind moves the water up from bottom of tank and away
from resting fish.
too much food, and especially too much low quality food can cause problems with
ammonia.
oh yeah... salt over 0.1% will definitely cause problems with fins and pearls.
Ingrid

(D.W.) wrote:

>I didn't think nitrate was that dangerous to fish. The test strips I
>use indicate that 20ppm(mg/L) is safe. Cleaner water can never hurt
>though. So, I will change more each time.
>
>I wish I new what had caused it, but overnight, after a whole month,
>almost all of the red veins in her tails have disappeared! All I had
>changed was the food, they are currently on a fast, and the salt, I
>didn't add any the last water change. What seems more likely to have
>caused her the problem?
>
>
>Thank You for the responses.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Gunther]

In article >,
says...
> I didn't think nitrate was that dangerous to fish. The test strips I
> use indicate that 20ppm(mg/L) is safe. Cleaner water can never hurt
> though. So, I will change more each time.
>
> I wish I new what had caused it, but overnight, after a whole month,
> almost all of the red veins in her tails have disappeared! All I had
> changed was the food, they are currently on a fast, and the salt, I
> didn't add any the last water change. What seems more likely to have
> caused her the problem?

20ppm probably IS safe for a while, but there's no guarantee
on the margin of error for any test, so you could have had higher.
It could still be nitrates or ???
Test strips aren't 100% reliable, I suspect, particularly
if they were old or if you confused or mixed up nitrAte
tests with nitrIte strips.

The point is, goldfish in general and fancies in particular
(and pearlscales are one of the fanciest and most handsome, IMO)
need the best water you can provide them with, and big water
changes are _always_ the first course of treatment for any problem.
The best medicine you have is your siphon, bucket, and some dechlor.

If you take care to provide lots of bio-filtration media
(sponge filters, etc) then it's safe and wise to do 50% or more
at each water change. If you have a dangerous toxin at lethal
levels, 15% may not make any significant difference.
Remember, if you have X-ppm of a toxin and do a 50% change,
you still have X/2 ppm of that toxin in the resulting water.

I just scanned my fish diaries for all three of my tanks
(what? you mean you don't keep one?!?!) and see that the
smallest PWC I've done in the past year was 60%, and most
are 75-90%, usually 7 to 10 days apart. [I've tried going
as long as 14 days, but decided it's too risky for too little
gain.] Caution, however: big PWCs require you to pay more
attention to water temperatures. Make sure the new water is
the same temp as the old.

Of course, your mileage may vary.
Gunther

[D.W.]

Now there is more. Please help.

The red veins in her tails are gone, but now she has developed, a red
spot under her jaw and on an area about half the size of a dime she
has developed little red spots, very small, about the size of a pin
head. She also is a little dropsied. I hope I have caught the signs
early enough, so I can treat it. What do I need to treat for? Should I
end their fast early, so she can get some food for strength? So far
what I have done is added a heater and brought the tank to 80 degrees.

I have some more questions about the salt. I didnt add any salt the
last water change, when I changed two gallons, and then today I took a
small sample, a film canister full, to Petsmart. She tested the water
and she said it was .77 . After, asking me what size the aquarium was
she said that it was "good". I don't know how to interpret the
results. I also bought a heater while I was there. And after adding it
to the tank I added an additional gallon of water to cover the
heater's fill line. I am now absolutely clueless
about the salt content. How can I balance it? I have been using Doc
Wellfish's Aquarium salt. Is that a good brand?


I am going to start changing 20% of the water every three days. As
far, as what treatments to use, I'd appreciate some advice.

Thank You

[[email protected]]

red dots could be costia or it could be the HIGH SALT. no... 0.77 is not good, dont
go higher than 0.1%. get an aquarium pharm pond salt test kit.

dont bring the temp to 80, that is some kind of compromise that wont do any good at
all. read everything about dropsy
http://users.megapathdsl.net/~solo/puregold/disease/symptom/byname.htm#dropsy
if you got parasites, increasing the temp could make them explode in population. you
gotta treat for parasites first, then run the temp up
QC+salt+ heat = dead fish so dont do that

(D.W.) wrote:
>The red veins in her tails are gone, but now she has developed, a red
>spot under her jaw and on an area about half the size of a dime she
>has developed little red spots, very small, about the size of a pin
>head. She also is a little dropsied. I hope I have caught the signs
>early enough, so I can treat it. What do I need to treat for? Should I
>end their fast early, so she can get some food for strength? So far
>what I have done is added a heater and brought the tank to 80 degrees.
>
>I have some more questions about the salt. I didnt add any salt the
>last water change, when I changed two gallons, and then today I took a
>small sample, a film canister full, to Petsmart. She tested the water
>and she said it was .77 . After, asking me what size the aquarium was
>she said that it was "good". I don't know how to interpret the
>results. I also bought a heater while I was there. And after adding it
>to the tank I added an additional gallon of water to cover the
>heater's fill line. I am now absolutely clueless
>about the salt content. How can I balance it? I have been using Doc
>Wellfish's Aquarium salt. Is that a good brand?
>
>
>I am going to start changing 20% of the water every three days. As
>far, as what treatments to use, I'd appreciate some advice.
>
>Thank You



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[E.Otter]

I bought the Aquaria Pharm Salt Test kit from Petsmart ('cause I'm paranoid
and want to avoid too much salt over time). It was in their pond section.
Its pretty easy to use and even includes guidlines for when you should add
more salt or do a water change without salt. Although its designed for
testing ponds it works just as well for tanks.

Any brand of aquaria salt is just as good as any other brand. Its just pure
salt. You could eat it if you wanted to. No rocket science needed to make
that stuff.

E.Otter