Lack of oxygen, AirStone required?

[Graeme]

Hi,

I have around a 17G tank, and a Fluval 2 Plus filter. This is positioned at
the top of the tank, so the output causes the water to "roll" which I was
told is good. This filter also features a "Air Flow Control" which sticks
out the top of the water, and pulls in air creating added aeration.

This however, I have found, isn't very good, and at times fails to work, but
just tapping the filter will bring the flow back to life - the filter does
work at all times, just the air control flow fails (so no bubbles are
outputted)

So I am thinking of purchasing an Air Pump and Airstone, as I believe my
tank may lack oxygen, as my Black Moor (the others are fine) does tend to go
to the surface quite a bit - ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate between 25-30.
My fish are bottom feed, and has been for a while now, so I don't think it
is an issue of the black moor taking in air and floating.

I haven't purchased a air pump/stone before, but I am looking at a TetraTec
Whisper pump (it is the newest model, re-designed). Other brands I can
purchase is Interpet, Hagen or Rena.

Now for the airstone, number of different makes and brands, but I guess they
all do the same time, should there be a feature(s) I should be looking for?
I have seen a Hagen Aqua Fizzzz Airstone, which is meant to diffuse water is
every direction and accelerates oxygen replenishment.

Or an Interpet Ceramic Long life airstone?

Also if I do purchase the Whisper pump do I need to purchase the Non-Return
check valve for it, or is one included in the box normally?

Any pointers would be great. Thanks!

Graeme

[Carlos]

I wouldnt go that way. Air stones and air pumps tend to be unreliable at
times. You say that as you tap the filter the air feature comes to life,
isnt that a bit unrealiable? Fluval 2 is an internal filter, right? My
experience has been very good with canister filters, they tend to be very
realiable (Aquaclear and Whisper) and they are easy to clean. I would
purchase a canister (they are really cheap in that size) and really make a
splash out of that water, take out all that CO2 and bring more oxygen into
your water.

take care

"Graeme" > wrote in message
...
> Hi,
>
> I have around a 17G tank, and a Fluval 2 Plus filter. This is positioned
at
> the top of the tank, so the output causes the water to "roll" which I was
> told is good. This filter also features a "Air Flow Control" which sticks
> out the top of the water, and pulls in air creating added aeration.
>
> This however, I have found, isn't very good, and at times fails to work,
but
> just tapping the filter will bring the flow back to life - the filter does
> work at all times, just the air control flow fails (so no bubbles are
> outputted)
>
> So I am thinking of purchasing an Air Pump and Airstone, as I believe my
> tank may lack oxygen, as my Black Moor (the others are fine) does tend to
go
> to the surface quite a bit - ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate between 25-30.
> My fish are bottom feed, and has been for a while now, so I don't think it
> is an issue of the black moor taking in air and floating.
>
> I haven't purchased a air pump/stone before, but I am looking at a
TetraTec
> Whisper pump (it is the newest model, re-designed). Other brands I can
> purchase is Interpet, Hagen or Rena.
>
> Now for the airstone, number of different makes and brands, but I guess
they
> all do the same time, should there be a feature(s) I should be looking
for?
> I have seen a Hagen Aqua Fizzzz Airstone, which is meant to diffuse water
is
> every direction and accelerates oxygen replenishment.
>
> Or an Interpet Ceramic Long life airstone?
>
> Also if I do purchase the Whisper pump do I need to purchase the
Non-Return
> check valve for it, or is one included in the box normally?
>
> Any pointers would be great. Thanks!
>
> Graeme
>
>

[[email protected]]

disturbing the surface helps with oxygenation, but doesnt come even close to the
oxygenation levels of an air pump and a good airstone. waterfalls penetrate the
water from the top, power heads push the air around on the surface or create a
horizontal aeration.
Air stones move the water from the bottom of the tank to the top and this drags water
from the top down to the bottom on the opposite side making a big circle.
any air pump is fine, no they dont usually come with a back flow so do get one if the
air pump is going to sit lower than the tank.... if the air pump is going to be
suspended higher than the tank it isnt needed.
the best air stones are sintered glass. they can easily be cleaned with muriatic
acid. get them from aquatic ecosystems (online). OR, get the cheap big green or
blue ones and replace when needed. clogged air stones make the air pump noisy and
shorten the life of the air pump by causing a back pressure.
if you like the look, an air curtain is fine as well. against the back wall and
above the gravel tho. Ingrid

"Graeme" > wrote:
>I have around a 17G tank, and a Fluval 2 Plus filter. This is positioned at
>the top of the tank, so the output causes the water to "roll" which I was
>told is good. This filter also features a "Air Flow Control" which sticks
>out the top of the water, and pulls in air creating added aeration.
>
>This however, I have found, isn't very good, and at times fails to work, but
>just tapping the filter will bring the flow back to life - the filter does
>work at all times, just the air control flow fails (so no bubbles are
>outputted)
>
>So I am thinking of purchasing an Air Pump and Airstone, as I believe my
>tank may lack oxygen, as my Black Moor (the others are fine) does tend to go
>to the surface quite a bit - ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate between 25-30.
>My fish are bottom feed, and has been for a while now, so I don't think it
>is an issue of the black moor taking in air and floating.
>
>I haven't purchased a air pump/stone before, but I am looking at a TetraTec
>Whisper pump (it is the newest model, re-designed). Other brands I can
>purchase is Interpet, Hagen or Rena.
>
>Now for the airstone, number of different makes and brands, but I guess they
>all do the same time, should there be a feature(s) I should be looking for?
>I have seen a Hagen Aqua Fizzzz Airstone, which is meant to diffuse water is
>every direction and accelerates oxygen replenishment.
>
>Or an Interpet Ceramic Long life airstone?
>
>Also if I do purchase the Whisper pump do I need to purchase the Non-Return
>check valve for it, or is one included in the box normally?
>
>Any pointers would be great. Thanks!
>
>Graeme
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Carlos]

yeah that maybe true, but.......power heads can not come close to a canister
or an internal filter in achieving the cleaning result. Graeme has an
internal filter. To achieve a very good aeration you can add a power head.
But my point is in how easy it is to clean a canister compared to an
internal like the Fluval 2.

Also if you have an internal filter and a power head wouldnt that be too
crampy in such a small tank (17 gals), and wouldnt that be a bit in a
temperature increase inside the tank. Canisters have the ability to be
outside, dont crowd the tank, dont contaminate visually inside, are easy to
clean, achieve a very good result in aeration and they do not contribute to
a temperature rise. Also you can put which ever media you prefer inside.
And you can add an air pump if you like to the Whisper and Acquaclear, it
goes conected inside the impeller with an airline tubing.

I hope this helps :-)




> wrote in message
...
> disturbing the surface helps with oxygenation, but doesnt come even close
to the
> oxygenation levels of an air pump and a good airstone. waterfalls
penetrate the
> water from the top, power heads push the air around on the surface or
create a
> horizontal aeration.
> Air stones move the water from the bottom of the tank to the top and this
drags water
> from the top down to the bottom on the opposite side making a big circle.
> any air pump is fine, no they dont usually come with a back flow so do get
one if the
> air pump is going to sit lower than the tank.... if the air pump is going
to be
> suspended higher than the tank it isnt needed.
> the best air stones are sintered glass. they can easily be cleaned with
muriatic
> acid. get them from aquatic ecosystems (online). OR, get the cheap big
green or
> blue ones and replace when needed. clogged air stones make the air pump
noisy and
> shorten the life of the air pump by causing a back pressure.
> if you like the look, an air curtain is fine as well. against the back
wall and
> above the gravel tho. Ingrid
>
> "Graeme" > wrote:
> >I have around a 17G tank, and a Fluval 2 Plus filter. This is positioned
at
> >the top of the tank, so the output causes the water to "roll" which I was
> >told is good. This filter also features a "Air Flow Control" which
sticks
> >out the top of the water, and pulls in air creating added aeration.
> >
> >This however, I have found, isn't very good, and at times fails to work,
but
> >just tapping the filter will bring the flow back to life - the filter
does
> >work at all times, just the air control flow fails (so no bubbles are
> >outputted)
> >
> >So I am thinking of purchasing an Air Pump and Airstone, as I believe my
> >tank may lack oxygen, as my Black Moor (the others are fine) does tend to
go
> >to the surface quite a bit - ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate between 25-30.
> >My fish are bottom feed, and has been for a while now, so I don't think
it
> >is an issue of the black moor taking in air and floating.
> >
> >I haven't purchased a air pump/stone before, but I am looking at a
TetraTec
> >Whisper pump (it is the newest model, re-designed). Other brands I can
> >purchase is Interpet, Hagen or Rena.
> >
> >Now for the airstone, number of different makes and brands, but I guess
they
> >all do the same time, should there be a feature(s) I should be looking
for?
> >I have seen a Hagen Aqua Fizzzz Airstone, which is meant to diffuse water
is
> >every direction and accelerates oxygen replenishment.
> >
> >Or an Interpet Ceramic Long life airstone?
> >
> >Also if I do purchase the Whisper pump do I need to purchase the
Non-Return
> >check valve for it, or is one included in the box normally?
> >
> >Any pointers would be great. Thanks!
> >
> >Graeme
> >
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Graeme]

"Carlos" > wrote in message
...
> yeah that maybe true, but.......power heads can not come close to a
canister
> or an internal filter in achieving the cleaning result. Graeme has an
> internal filter. To achieve a very good aeration you can add a power
head.
> But my point is in how easy it is to clean a canister compared to an
> internal like the Fluval 2.

Because I am a bit of a newbie still, I take it by canister filters you are
talking about extenal ones? Such as the Eheim Ecco Power Filters? How do
they achieve better aeration compared to internal filters?

Is it just the case that the output is released above the water level?
Another plus point is that I lose the filter inside the tank, which creates
just a bit more room.

And is a Power Head just something which rotates or moves water around the
tank, and does nothing else (ie, it isn't a filter on its own, just moves
water).

Graeme


> Also if you have an internal filter and a power head wouldnt that be too
> crampy in such a small tank (17 gals), and wouldnt that be a bit in a
> temperature increase inside the tank. Canisters have the ability to be
> outside, dont crowd the tank, dont contaminate visually inside, are easy
to
> clean, achieve a very good result in aeration and they do not contribute
to
> a temperature rise. Also you can put which ever media you prefer inside.
> And you can add an air pump if you like to the Whisper and Acquaclear, it
> goes conected inside the impeller with an airline tubing.
>
> I hope this helps :-)
>
>
>
>
> > wrote in message
> ...
> > disturbing the surface helps with oxygenation, but doesnt come even
close
> to the
> > oxygenation levels of an air pump and a good airstone. waterfalls
> penetrate the
> > water from the top, power heads push the air around on the surface or
> create a
> > horizontal aeration.
> > Air stones move the water from the bottom of the tank to the top and
this
> drags water
> > from the top down to the bottom on the opposite side making a big
circle.
> > any air pump is fine, no they dont usually come with a back flow so do
get
> one if the
> > air pump is going to sit lower than the tank.... if the air pump is
going
> to be
> > suspended higher than the tank it isnt needed.
> > the best air stones are sintered glass. they can easily be cleaned with
> muriatic
> > acid. get them from aquatic ecosystems (online). OR, get the cheap big
> green or
> > blue ones and replace when needed. clogged air stones make the air pump
> noisy and
> > shorten the life of the air pump by causing a back pressure.
> > if you like the look, an air curtain is fine as well. against the back
> wall and
> > above the gravel tho. Ingrid
> >
> > "Graeme" > wrote:
> > >I have around a 17G tank, and a Fluval 2 Plus filter. This is
positioned
> at
> > >the top of the tank, so the output causes the water to "roll" which I
was
> > >told is good. This filter also features a "Air Flow Control" which
> sticks
> > >out the top of the water, and pulls in air creating added aeration.
> > >
> > >This however, I have found, isn't very good, and at times fails to
work,
> but
> > >just tapping the filter will bring the flow back to life - the filter
> does
> > >work at all times, just the air control flow fails (so no bubbles are
> > >outputted)
> > >
> > >So I am thinking of purchasing an Air Pump and Airstone, as I believe
my
> > >tank may lack oxygen, as my Black Moor (the others are fine) does tend
to
> go
> > >to the surface quite a bit - ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate between
25-30.
> > >My fish are bottom feed, and has been for a while now, so I don't think
> it
> > >is an issue of the black moor taking in air and floating.
> > >
> > >I haven't purchased a air pump/stone before, but I am looking at a
> TetraTec
> > >Whisper pump (it is the newest model, re-designed). Other brands I can
> > >purchase is Interpet, Hagen or Rena.
> > >
> > >Now for the airstone, number of different makes and brands, but I guess
> they
> > >all do the same time, should there be a feature(s) I should be looking
> for?
> > >I have seen a Hagen Aqua Fizzzz Airstone, which is meant to diffuse
water
> is
> > >every direction and accelerates oxygen replenishment.
> > >
> > >Or an Interpet Ceramic Long life airstone?
> > >
> > >Also if I do purchase the Whisper pump do I need to purchase the
> Non-Return
> > >check valve for it, or is one included in the box normally?
> > >
> > >Any pointers would be great. Thanks!
> > >
> > >Graeme
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> > http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> > www.drsolo.com
> > Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> > compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> > endorsements or recommendations I make.
>
>

[Dark Phoenix]

> wrote in message
...
.. clogged air stones make the air pump noisy and
> shorten the life of the air pump by causing a back pressure.
Ingrid

What is it that clogs them? Mine is putting out less bubbles than before,
but it's still bright blue, not 'algae looking'
Thanks,

--
Laurie, Dark Phoenix

"Every dog has it's day, but nights are reserved for cats." -

[LoaderLady]

"Carlos" > wrote in message
...
> yeah that maybe true, but.......power heads can not come close to a
canister
> or an internal filter in achieving the cleaning result. Graeme has an
> internal filter. To achieve a very good aeration you can add a power
head.
> But my point is in how easy it is to clean a canister compared to an
> internal like the Fluval 2.
>
> Also if you have an internal filter and a power head wouldnt that be too
> crampy in such a small tank (17 gals), and wouldnt that be a bit in a
> temperature increase inside the tank. Canisters have the ability to be
> outside, dont crowd the tank, dont contaminate visually inside, are easy
to
> clean, achieve a very good result in aeration and they do not contribute
to
> a temperature rise. Also you can put which ever media you prefer inside.
> And you can add an air pump if you like to the Whisper and Acquaclear, it
> goes conected inside the impeller with an airline tubing.

Whispers and Aqua Clear are power filters, not canisters. A canister sits
generally under the tank. Power filters hang over the top. I use power
filters (not a power head - and btw, some power heads do come with filters,
but are mostly for circulation). I've never used a canister, but would like
to try one someday :-)

[Tom La Bron]

Graeme,

The Rena Microbubble airstone is one of the best. It has been recommended
by many becuase of the fine bubbles it puts into the water which is what you
want and it is easy to clean when and if necessary.

HTH

Tom L.L.
"Graeme" > wrote in message
...
> Hi,
>
> I have around a 17G tank, and a Fluval 2 Plus filter. This is positioned
at
> the top of the tank, so the output causes the water to "roll" which I was
> told is good. This filter also features a "Air Flow Control" which sticks
> out the top of the water, and pulls in air creating added aeration.
>
> This however, I have found, isn't very good, and at times fails to work,
but
> just tapping the filter will bring the flow back to life - the filter does
> work at all times, just the air control flow fails (so no bubbles are
> outputted)
>
> So I am thinking of purchasing an Air Pump and Airstone, as I believe my
> tank may lack oxygen, as my Black Moor (the others are fine) does tend to
go
> to the surface quite a bit - ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate between 25-30.
> My fish are bottom feed, and has been for a while now, so I don't think it
> is an issue of the black moor taking in air and floating.
>
> I haven't purchased a air pump/stone before, but I am looking at a
TetraTec
> Whisper pump (it is the newest model, re-designed). Other brands I can
> purchase is Interpet, Hagen or Rena.
>
> Now for the airstone, number of different makes and brands, but I guess
they
> all do the same time, should there be a feature(s) I should be looking
for?
> I have seen a Hagen Aqua Fizzzz Airstone, which is meant to diffuse water
is
> every direction and accelerates oxygen replenishment.
>
> Or an Interpet Ceramic Long life airstone?
>
> Also if I do purchase the Whisper pump do I need to purchase the
Non-Return
> check valve for it, or is one included in the box normally?
>
> Any pointers would be great. Thanks!
>
> Graeme
>
>

[Carlos]

i think its the use that clogs them, they seem to just die. in marine tanks
it is recomended to change the stone of a skimmer about 6 months or so,
because of this cloggin. i dont like stones or air pumps, they seem to be
to tiresome, the noise, maintenance, unreliability, etc. i like canisters,
but thats just my opinion.

you wont believe i have a Whisper C since almost 10 years or more, and its
working just like the first time, its a little work horse. and i have use
it in marine and fresh water tanks.

the ones who likes a lot of water circulation can get a nice Power Head,
they are also very realiable, but that also depends on what type of biotope
you are creating.

take care.


"Dark Phoenix" > wrote in message
...
>
> > wrote in message
> ...
> . clogged air stones make the air pump noisy and
> > shorten the life of the air pump by causing a back pressure.
> Ingrid
>
> What is it that clogs them? Mine is putting out less bubbles than before,
> but it's still bright blue, not 'algae looking'
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Laurie, Dark Phoenix
>
> "Every dog has it's day, but nights are reserved for cats." -
>
>

[[email protected]]

whatever is clogging them is organic cause the muriatic acid dissolves it... or it
could be something like calcium. Ingrid

"Dark Phoenix" > wrote:

>
> wrote in message
...
>. clogged air stones make the air pump noisy and
>> shorten the life of the air pump by causing a back pressure.
> Ingrid
>
>What is it that clogs them? Mine is putting out less bubbles than before,
>but it's still bright blue, not 'algae looking'
>Thanks,



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[[email protected]]

there seems to be confusion about what is meant by filters, etc.
undergravel filters are a plate with gravel over the top powered by an airstone down
a riser OR a powerhead that moves the water up and out of the riser creating a vacuum
that pulls water thru the gravel and plate (or pushes it thru if this is a reverse
UGF).
Internal filters are like a sponge and usually powered by an airstone. these are
usually used in fry tanks.
Hang on the back filters are external and use a small pump to move water into the
filter which flows thru the filter and back into the tank by gravity. Whispers and
Aquaclears are of this kind.
Cannisters are sealed and the pump pushes water thru the media under pressure.
Air pumps are also used as stand alones. typical air pumps have two outlets to run 2
airstones. it is used to increase aeration and help handle the increased wastes put
out by Goldfish and meet the higher aeration needs of goldfish.
Ingrid

"Carlos" > wrote:

>i think its the use that clogs them, they seem to just die. in marine tanks
>it is recomended to change the stone of a skimmer about 6 months or so,
>because of this cloggin. i dont like stones or air pumps, they seem to be
>to tiresome, the noise, maintenance, unreliability, etc. i like canisters,
>but thats just my opinion.
>
>you wont believe i have a Whisper C since almost 10 years or more, and its
>working just like the first time, its a little work horse. and i have use
>it in marine and fresh water tanks.
>
>the ones who likes a lot of water circulation can get a nice Power Head,
>they are also very realiable, but that also depends on what type of biotope
>you are creating.
>
>take care.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Carlos]

correction : Whispers and Aquaclear are power filters not canisters as I
said before.


"Tom La Bron" > wrote in message
...
> Graeme,
>
> The Rena Microbubble airstone is one of the best. It has been recommended
> by many becuase of the fine bubbles it puts into the water which is what
you
> want and it is easy to clean when and if necessary.
>
> HTH
>
> Tom L.L.
> "Graeme" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have around a 17G tank, and a Fluval 2 Plus filter. This is
positioned
> at
> > the top of the tank, so the output causes the water to "roll" which I
was
> > told is good. This filter also features a "Air Flow Control" which
sticks
> > out the top of the water, and pulls in air creating added aeration.
> >
> > This however, I have found, isn't very good, and at times fails to work,
> but
> > just tapping the filter will bring the flow back to life - the filter
does
> > work at all times, just the air control flow fails (so no bubbles are
> > outputted)
> >
> > So I am thinking of purchasing an Air Pump and Airstone, as I believe my
> > tank may lack oxygen, as my Black Moor (the others are fine) does tend
to
> go
> > to the surface quite a bit - ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate between
25-30.
> > My fish are bottom feed, and has been for a while now, so I don't think
it
> > is an issue of the black moor taking in air and floating.
> >
> > I haven't purchased a air pump/stone before, but I am looking at a
> TetraTec
> > Whisper pump (it is the newest model, re-designed). Other brands I can
> > purchase is Interpet, Hagen or Rena.
> >
> > Now for the airstone, number of different makes and brands, but I guess
> they
> > all do the same time, should there be a feature(s) I should be looking
> for?
> > I have seen a Hagen Aqua Fizzzz Airstone, which is meant to diffuse
water
> is
> > every direction and accelerates oxygen replenishment.
> >
> > Or an Interpet Ceramic Long life airstone?
> >
> > Also if I do purchase the Whisper pump do I need to purchase the
> Non-Return
> > check valve for it, or is one included in the box normally?
> >
> > Any pointers would be great. Thanks!
> >
> > Graeme
> >
> >
>
>

[Steve]

As well as havinga fluval filter i also have an under gravel filter (mainly
cos it came witht the tank) and have a airstone down the tube of that. Is
that still adding oxygen to the wateror would it be better taking it out?

[[email protected]]

as long as you have UGF, dont take it out. but I would put in another good sized
airstone to move and aerate the water. think about removing the gravel and UGF.
Ingrid

"Steve" > wrote:

>As well as havinga fluval filter i also have an under gravel filter (mainly
>cos it came witht the tank) and have a airstone down the tube of that. Is
>that still adding oxygen to the wateror would it be better taking it out?
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.