Moving fish to new tank

[Dark Phoenix]

I've got the new 50 gal filled, the filter running, and am waiting for the
temp to come up. I put in the castle and troll and some of the glass marbles
from the 10 gal tank, and threw in the old filter (rinsed the gross big
stuff off with a little cold, non-chlorinated well water but that's it) I
don't have any plants to move to it at the moment- there was a recent
feeding frenzy. (why do they ignore the plants for days or weeks, and then
suddenly go nuts for them????)

When the temp comes up, I plan to move one fish over. Now, I doubt I can set
the heater accurately enough to get the two tanks perfectly matched, so I
figure on putting the 'test fish' in a bag and doing the "float the bag in
the new tank and slowly add the new tank water" routine, like I'd brought a
new fish home. Which leads to the question that is the whole point of this
post - is there something special about the bags the fish store uses? Or,
since I'll be sitting here watching it the whole time, thus limiting the
chance of the fish getting into a corner, can I use a clean new food baggie?
Or should I stop by and bum four fish bags from the LFS?
Thanks,

--
Laurie, Dark Phoenix

"Every dog has it's day, but nights are reserved for cats." -

[Azul]

On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 15:39:01 -0800, "Dark Phoenix"
> wrote:

>I've got the new 50 gal filled, the filter running, and am waiting for the
>temp to come up. I put in the castle and troll and some of the glass marbles
>from the 10 gal tank, and threw in the old filter (rinsed the gross big
>stuff off with a little cold, non-chlorinated well water but that's it) I
>don't have any plants to move to it at the moment- there was a recent
>feeding frenzy. (why do they ignore the plants for days or weeks, and then
>suddenly go nuts for them????)
>
>When the temp comes up, I plan to move one fish over. Now, I doubt I can set
>the heater accurately enough to get the two tanks perfectly matched, so I
>figure on putting the 'test fish' in a bag and doing the "float the bag in
>the new tank and slowly add the new tank water" routine, like I'd brought a
>new fish home. Which leads to the question that is the whole point of this
>post - is there something special about the bags the fish store uses? Or,
>since I'll be sitting here watching it the whole time, thus limiting the
>chance of the fish getting into a corner, can I use a clean new food baggie?
>Or should I stop by and bum four fish bags from the LFS?
>Thanks,
If you can get the water to within a couple of degrees of each other
you can swap them out with no problem. They can take about 4 degrees
of change without stressing them out.(I believe that is what Ingrid
said). If your heaters have thermostats on them you should be able to
set them to the same thing and get them to about the same temp without
too much trouble.

I use the same type heater in every tank. They usually stay within a
degree or two of each other, depending on the ambient room temp.
My upstairs is about 5 degrees warmer than the downstairs.

Hope this helps. Oh yeah. I have the same type thermometer in every
tank too.

Azul

[LoaderLady]

I moved my fish by putting them in a tupperware-type container with water
from their tank, and then added water from the other tank a bit at a time to
set the temp and it worked. I have tried using sandwich bags, too. Use
Ziploc, though since cheaper brands don't do the trick.

As for temp, I don't use heaters. My house is fairly warm as it is and the
tanks stay around 74/5 degrees anyways. I just got some Angel's however, so
I'll probably have to dig the heaters out now. LOL.

Hope this helps.

Tammy

[Carlos]

also watch the water parameters, amonia, nitrates, ph, kh etc.

the bag thing is for easiness in handling and cheap transport. there are
new bags which can keep oxygen in and get co2 out, i wonder how, they are
the new thing at pet shops.

water temp rise can trigger something else, goldfish start their sexual
activity in spring (when the temperatures start to rise) so this moving that
you are doing can trigger their time-sex clock :-)

take care


"Azul" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 15:39:01 -0800, "Dark Phoenix"
> > wrote:
>
> >I've got the new 50 gal filled, the filter running, and am waiting for
the
> >temp to come up. I put in the castle and troll and some of the glass
marbles
> >from the 10 gal tank, and threw in the old filter (rinsed the gross big
> >stuff off with a little cold, non-chlorinated well water but that's it) I
> >don't have any plants to move to it at the moment- there was a recent
> >feeding frenzy. (why do they ignore the plants for days or weeks, and
then
> >suddenly go nuts for them????)
> >
> >When the temp comes up, I plan to move one fish over. Now, I doubt I can
set
> >the heater accurately enough to get the two tanks perfectly matched, so I
> >figure on putting the 'test fish' in a bag and doing the "float the bag
in
> >the new tank and slowly add the new tank water" routine, like I'd brought
a
> >new fish home. Which leads to the question that is the whole point of
this
> >post - is there something special about the bags the fish store uses? Or,
> >since I'll be sitting here watching it the whole time, thus limiting the
> >chance of the fish getting into a corner, can I use a clean new food
baggie?
> >Or should I stop by and bum four fish bags from the LFS?
> >Thanks,
> If you can get the water to within a couple of degrees of each other
> you can swap them out with no problem. They can take about 4 degrees
> of change without stressing them out.(I believe that is what Ingrid
> said). If your heaters have thermostats on them you should be able to
> set them to the same thing and get them to about the same temp without
> too much trouble.
>
> I use the same type heater in every tank. They usually stay within a
> degree or two of each other, depending on the ambient room temp.
> My upstairs is about 5 degrees warmer than the downstairs.
>
> Hope this helps. Oh yeah. I have the same type thermometer in every
> tank too.
>
> Azul

[Loewen-Roberts]

The tupperware is an excellent idea.

Get as much water from the old tank to the new one, to help cycle it right
away too.
"LoaderLady" > wrote in message
...
> I moved my fish by putting them in a tupperware-type container with water
> from their tank, and then added water from the other tank a bit at a time
to
> set the temp and it worked. I have tried using sandwich bags, too. Use
> Ziploc, though since cheaper brands don't do the trick.
>
> As for temp, I don't use heaters. My house is fairly warm as it is and
the
> tanks stay around 74/5 degrees anyways. I just got some Angel's however,
so
> I'll probably have to dig the heaters out now. LOL.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Tammy
>
>

[Dark Phoenix]

> wrote in message
...
> did you do a salt brine treatment of the new 50 gallon? how did you clean
and
> prepare the new 50 gallon? Ingrid

Wellll.... filling and draining the 50 an extra time seemed like a nightmare
(I don't have a python.. another thing to save up for- and soon I hope! Not
looking forward to the water changes on THIS one!) so after leaving it open
to the air for a couple of weeks, most of the smell was gone. Then I made up
a strong salt solution and sloshed it about on the corners, repeating
several times and getting it as wet as possible. Then I sopped that out and
let it sit a day before starting to fill. (hides head)

I moved Homer over this afternoon. He seemed very upset for quite awhile,
like he couldn't swim, and I was worried I'd hurt him with the net. Then I
put some brine shrimp in and suddenly all was wonderful. Now he's exploring.
Probably hoping he missed a shrimp. Now to figure out how long it'll be
before moving the other three over.... guess there's no way of knowing other
than watching the ammonia go up and then down??
Thanks,

--
Laurie, Dark Phoenix

"Every dog has it's day, but nights are reserved for cats." -

[T]

When I move fish around ( I keep the temps reativly close, withing two or
three degrees ) I scoop here and deposit there.. Keep in mind I do this on
fully cycled tanks of my own. I have had no problems doing this, even with
the tempermental African Cic's.. I have not lost a fish using this method,
although it is probably not advisable. But keep in mind the water temps are
very close if not identicle, the tanks are fully cycled and the water
parameters are very very close together..

Tim..


"Dark Phoenix" > wrote in message
...
>
> > wrote in message
> ...
> > did you do a salt brine treatment of the new 50 gallon? how did you
clean
> and
> > prepare the new 50 gallon? Ingrid
>
> Wellll.... filling and draining the 50 an extra time seemed like a
nightmare
> (I don't have a python.. another thing to save up for- and soon I hope!
Not
> looking forward to the water changes on THIS one!) so after leaving it
open
> to the air for a couple of weeks, most of the smell was gone. Then I made
up
> a strong salt solution and sloshed it about on the corners, repeating
> several times and getting it as wet as possible. Then I sopped that out
and
> let it sit a day before starting to fill. (hides head)
>
> I moved Homer over this afternoon. He seemed very upset for quite awhile,
> like he couldn't swim, and I was worried I'd hurt him with the net. Then I
> put some brine shrimp in and suddenly all was wonderful. Now he's
exploring.
> Probably hoping he missed a shrimp. Now to figure out how long it'll be
> before moving the other three over.... guess there's no way of knowing
other
> than watching the ammonia go up and then down??
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Laurie, Dark Phoenix
>
> "Every dog has it's day, but nights are reserved for cats." -
>
>

[[email protected]]

the biobugs are not in the water unless the water is really cloudy white. they
adhere to the filter media and make extensive colonies on substrate. Ingrid

>Get as much water from the old tank to the new one, to help cycle it right
>away too.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[[email protected]]

DONT USE NETS with Goldfish. use a plastic zip lock or some kind of dish.
watch the ammonia, but if you can move all the media filters over to the new tank
with the fish the tank should cycle in a couple days. if you move 1/2 the media
over, it will cycle in 4-5 days. without established biobug colonies it can take up
to a month if you dont use Biospira. Ingrid

"Dark Phoenix" > wrote:
I was worried I'd hurt him with the net. Then I
>put some brine shrimp in and suddenly all was wonderful. Now he's exploring.
>Probably hoping he missed a shrimp. Now to figure out how long it'll be
>before moving the other three over.... guess there's no way of knowing other
>than watching the ammonia go up and then down??
>Thanks,



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Carlos]

Ingrid,

Could you explain why not to use nets?

thanks


> wrote in message
...
> DONT USE NETS with Goldfish. use a plastic zip lock or some kind of dish.
> watch the ammonia, but if you can move all the media filters over to the
new tank
> with the fish the tank should cycle in a couple days. if you move 1/2 the
media
> over, it will cycle in 4-5 days. without established biobug colonies it
can take up
> to a month if you dont use Biospira. Ingrid
>
> "Dark Phoenix" > wrote:
> I was worried I'd hurt him with the net. Then I
> >put some brine shrimp in and suddenly all was wonderful. Now he's
exploring.
> >Probably hoping he missed a shrimp. Now to figure out how long it'll be
> >before moving the other three over.... guess there's no way of knowing
other
> >than watching the ammonia go up and then down??
> >Thanks,
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> endorsements or recommendations I make.

[[email protected]]

it strips off the slime coat and it is too easy to snag a scale. removing either
opens up the skin to infection. Ingrid

"Carlos" > wrote:
>Could you explain why not to use nets?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Carlos]

ok. i have several nets, now I know why do fish fear them, it gets them
strip of their precious slime.


> wrote in message
...
> it strips off the slime coat and it is too easy to snag a scale.
removing either
> opens up the skin to infection. Ingrid
>
> "Carlos" > wrote:
> >Could you explain why not to use nets?
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> endorsements or recommendations I make.

[[email protected]]

nahhh... it is something coming to get em. nearly any GF can be picked up by hand if
you move slowly. better is using a glass or clear plastic bowl of some kind. least
stressful. Ingrid

"Carlos" > wrote:

>ok. i have several nets, now I know why do fish fear them, it gets them
>strip of their precious slime.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Dark Phoenix]

> wrote in message
...
> DONT USE NETS with Goldfish. use a plastic zip lock or some kind of dish.
> watch the ammonia, but if you can move all the media filters over to the
new tank
> with the fish the tank should cycle in a couple days. if you move 1/2 the
media
> over, it will cycle in 4-5 days. without established biobug colonies it
can take up
> to a month if you dont use Biospira. Ingrid

Wow, that fast! I moved the filter media, but it's real small (from a 5-15
hang on the back) and the new tank is 50 gal, so I didn't realize it'd grow
that fast. I figured it'd take quite a while for one 2" fish to crap up 50
gals enough to feed the biobugs. Maybe I should go ahead and move his
buddies over. (NOT with a net! Usually I can catch them with my hands, but
when I went to move Homer, he freaked and I was afraid he'd jump and I'd be
chasing him under the sofa)

Thanks,

--
Laurie, Dark Phoenix

"Every dog has it's day, but nights are reserved for cats." -

[Tom La Bron]

Carlos,

Believe what you want, but I have used nets for the last 40plus years and
have never had a problem, neither with scale loss or disease wise like
Ingrid suggests. What a bunch of horse manure. You would have to use the
net with the finesse of a Cave Troll to loose scales on a fish. As far as
the slime coat goes it is a lot more cohesive than usually thought, which is
why have to do a "scrape on a fish" if you are looking for parasites, plus
the slime coat is always being manufactured and replaced by new as the fish
lives from day to day. It is not a static coating on the fish. If you are
that worried about nets use ones with a finer mesh. If you think it is
better to use your hands then why do your hands always feel slimy after
handling a fish.

That's all right Carlos, a couple of years ago Ingrid was recommending
feverishly that every one wear special plastic gloves (like surgical gloves)
all the way to their armpits, if necessary, every time that put their hands
in their tank water. I wonder why now she is touting catching fish in an
individual's bare hands. It sure would be interesting if she would keep her
recommendations in line with other recommendations.

Tom L.L.
-------------------------------------------------
"Carlos" > wrote in message
...
> ok. i have several nets, now I know why do fish fear them, it gets them
> strip of their precious slime.
>
>
> > wrote in message
> ...
> > it strips off the slime coat and it is too easy to snag a scale.
> removing either
> > opens up the skin to infection. Ingrid
> >
> > "Carlos" > wrote:
> > >Could you explain why not to use nets?
> >
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> > http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> > www.drsolo.com
> > Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> > compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> > endorsements or recommendations I make.
>
>

[[email protected]]

the filter already on the tank with the same number of fish is going to be able to
pretty well handle the same number of fish in a new tank. only deficit is glass has
a lot of biobugs adhered, and of course any algae that slurps up wastes. the reason
for bigger filters on bigger tanks is the fish from the smaller tank are going to
grow in more water and will need more filtration and the tendency for an empty tank
to fill up to capacity. If Homer is a single tail, then yeah... they arent very easy
to catch ... they are more like koi, very agile, very strong. but I dont recommend
walking any distance with a fish in my hand... use your hands to get them into a bag
or bowl for "travel" to the new tank.... unless the tank is right next to the old
one. Ingrid

"Dark Phoenix" > wrote:
>Wow, that fast! I moved the filter media, but it's real small (from a 5-15
>hang on the back) and the new tank is 50 gal, so I didn't realize it'd grow
>that fast. I figured it'd take quite a while for one 2" fish to crap up 50
>gals enough to feed the biobugs. Maybe I should go ahead and move his
>buddies over. (NOT with a net! Usually I can catch them with my hands, but
>when I went to move Homer, he freaked and I was afraid he'd jump and I'd be
>chasing him under the sofa)
>
>Thanks,



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Dark Phoenix]

> wrote in message
...
> the filter already on the tank with the same number of fish is going to be
able to
> pretty well handle the same number of fish in a new tank. only deficit is
glass has
> a lot of biobugs adhered, and of course any algae that slurps up wastes.
the reason
> for bigger filters on bigger tanks is the fish from the smaller tank are
going to
> grow in more water and will need more filtration and the tendency for an
empty tank
> to fill up to capacity. If Homer is a single tail, then yeah... they
arent very easy
> to catch ... they are more like koi, very agile, very strong. but I dont
recommend
> walking any distance with a fish in my hand... use your hands to get them
into a bag
> or bowl for "travel" to the new tank.... unless the tank is right next to
the old
> one. Ingrid

Woo-Hoo! In they go! I think Homer is lonely over there by himself. (I know,
they don't school, but he keeps looking towards the old tank...)

Homer is a common who was supposed to be a Comet. But he and Ophelia have
these stubby little tails...
thanks!

--
Laurie, Dark Phoenix

"Every dog has it's day, but nights are reserved for cats." -

[[email protected]]

water softening salt is what is in our water after the softening cycle is done. it
better be pure!!!! just get the pure solar salt crystals, no additives, not those
little while pellets. I would say nothing looks like pellets cause it could mean
there are additives. Ingrid

"Kodiak" > wrote:

>Hi Ingrid,
> I thought Water softening salt was not pure enough,
>i guess it's ok if your just washing the tank right?
>
> Speaking of salt, some guy told me you could use Septic
>Safeguard (Big Salt Pellets) from Wally World, Do you
>recommend for fish?
>...Kodiak


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Kodiak]

We did a post on this a while back, I bought a 20KG bag of
water softening salt;

Swifto Brand "Crystal Plus" water softener salt
20KG bag (44lbs) for $3.50
Improved Resin Clean Formula
Inhibits Rust buildup and stains
99.8% Pure Evaporated Salt
Compacted for Maximum hardness
High Purity Brine reduces maintenance

But you recommended against it. I see where your going with this,
this salt is in gravel shaped rock size, it is not 100%, I imagine as you
say
anything rock size must have additives. However this septic safeguard salt,
isn't that for drinking water (even though it's pellet shaped)?

My freind lives in an apartment where the water is obvuiusly softened,
I'm not sure it's safe to use that water for his fish, what do you think?

....Kodiak


> wrote in message
...
> water softening salt is what is in our water after the softening cycle is
done. it
> better be pure!!!! just get the pure solar salt crystals, no additives,
not those
> little while pellets. I would say nothing looks like pellets cause it
could mean
> there are additives. Ingrid
>
> "Kodiak" > wrote:
>
> >Hi Ingrid,
> > I thought Water softening salt was not pure enough,
> >i guess it's ok if your just washing the tank right?
> >
> > Speaking of salt, some guy told me you could use Septic
> >Safeguard (Big Salt Pellets) from Wally World, Do you
> >recommend for fish?
> >...Kodiak
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> endorsements or recommendations I make.

[[email protected]]

it is for drinking water, but the additives are human safe, not necessarily fish
safe. what you want is 100% pure solar salt looks like big rough crystals, not
little pellets.
right. when I lived with my mother I made sure her salt for softening water had no
additives either. but of course putting salt into the water with the fish is much
more concentrated. INgrid

"Kodiak" > wrote:

>We did a post on this a while back, I bought a 20KG bag of
>water softening salt;
>
>Swifto Brand "Crystal Plus" water softener salt
>20KG bag (44lbs) for $3.50
>Improved Resin Clean Formula
>Inhibits Rust buildup and stains
>99.8% Pure Evaporated Salt
>Compacted for Maximum hardness
>High Purity Brine reduces maintenance
>
>But you recommended against it. I see where your going with this,
>this salt is in gravel shaped rock size, it is not 100%, I imagine as you
>say
>anything rock size must have additives. However this septic safeguard salt,
>isn't that for drinking water (even though it's pellet shaped)?
>
>My freind lives in an apartment where the water is obvuiusly softened,
>I'm not sure it's safe to use that water for his fish, what do you think?
>
>...Kodiak
>
>
> wrote in message
...
>> water softening salt is what is in our water after the softening cycle is
>done. it
>> better be pure!!!! just get the pure solar salt crystals, no additives,
>not those
>> little while pellets. I would say nothing looks like pellets cause it
>could mean
>> there are additives. Ingrid
>>
>> "Kodiak" > wrote:
>>
>> >Hi Ingrid,
>> > I thought Water softening salt was not pure enough,
>> >i guess it's ok if your just washing the tank right?
>> >
>> > Speaking of salt, some guy told me you could use Septic
>> >Safeguard (Big Salt Pellets) from Wally World, Do you
>> >recommend for fish?
>> >...Kodiak
>>
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
>> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
>> www.drsolo.com
>> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
>> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
>> endorsements or recommendations I make.
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.