Oscar Calling Dr. Solo

[Kodiak]

This is about Oscars, my apologies to everyone for any annoyance..
I know I shouldn't be posting this here,
but would appreciate any advice from you Ingrid,
or anyone else please...

Bought two little Tiger Oscars last night, they are just over 1" long.
I got them from the LFS in a bag with about 6 cups of water.
They had to remain in the bag for 4 hours is this bad?
I put them in a small 5gal Qtine tank, I know it's small this is only
temporary.
The tank hasn't been used in a while so i cleaned it thouroghly, added
dechlorinated water that i let sit for 24 hours in a seperate container with
an airstone
and also added some aquasafe tapwater conditioner (2 capfuls)
I used a Brand new Aquaclear Mini filter with new sponge, and used lavarock
and Ehfi Substrat media from another tank with already established filter
media.
I let the bag soak for 30 minutes to adjust temp before releasing fish
I also added 0.1% salt solution a few hours later.
there is no gravel or airstone in the tank.

Fish have been huddled sitting in a bottom corner since last night,
they are slightly leaned over, they are not swimming around,
and they are not eating. They looked fine at the LFS.

Here are my parameters;
Temp 67degF
NaCl 0.1%
PH 7.5
Ammo 0.1ppm (toxic ammo should be )
N02 0ppm
N03 didn't bother since it's new tank with fresh water
GH 60ppm
KH 30ppm

I am thinking to crank temp up, what temp is good?
Is PH 7.5 too low?
GH/KH a bit on the soft side, do I need to Buff up?
Was the 4 hour transit brutal to them (a bag with 6cups LFS water)?
Any ideas, it's my first time with Oscars..
Help appreciated, thanks in advance...

....Kodiak

[SamB]

They need 72 to 76 F and would be happier in slightly acid water. How cold
did they get in transit? Time in the bag shouldn't have done any permanent
damage.
SamB
"Kodiak" > wrote in message
...
> This is about Oscars, my apologies to everyone for any annoyance..
> I know I shouldn't be posting this here,
> but would appreciate any advice from you Ingrid,
> or anyone else please...
>
> Bought two little Tiger Oscars last night, they are just over 1" long.
> I got them from the LFS in a bag with about 6 cups of water.
> They had to remain in the bag for 4 hours is this bad?
> I put them in a small 5gal Qtine tank, I know it's small this is only
> temporary.
> The tank hasn't been used in a while so i cleaned it thouroghly, added
> dechlorinated water that i let sit for 24 hours in a seperate container
with
> an airstone
> and also added some aquasafe tapwater conditioner (2 capfuls)
> I used a Brand new Aquaclear Mini filter with new sponge, and used
lavarock
> and Ehfi Substrat media from another tank with already established filter
> media.
> I let the bag soak for 30 minutes to adjust temp before releasing fish
> I also added 0.1% salt solution a few hours later.
> there is no gravel or airstone in the tank.
>
> Fish have been huddled sitting in a bottom corner since last night,
> they are slightly leaned over, they are not swimming around,
> and they are not eating. They looked fine at the LFS.
>
> Here are my parameters;
> Temp 67degF
> NaCl 0.1%
> PH 7.5
> Ammo 0.1ppm (toxic ammo should be )
> N02 0ppm
> N03 didn't bother since it's new tank with fresh water
> GH 60ppm
> KH 30ppm
>
> I am thinking to crank temp up, what temp is good?
> Is PH 7.5 too low?
> GH/KH a bit on the soft side, do I need to Buff up?
> Was the 4 hour transit brutal to them (a bag with 6cups LFS water)?
> Any ideas, it's my first time with Oscars..
> Help appreciated, thanks in advance...
>
> ...Kodiak
>
>
>
>

[[email protected]]

I know less than zero about oscars, but yes, 4 hours in a little bit of water is
rough on any fish.
do not increase temp as that increases oxygen demand. right now their gills are
compromised, so you want pristine water, polyaqua and a bit of salt, only 1 teaspoon
per 5 gallons. keep the water coolish and excellent aeration without pushing them
around.. use a big airstone about 1" off the bottom.
use that ammonia slurper.. stuff you squirt in and it sops up ammonia, use the
ammonia test kit goes with that, but mostly get a 40 gallon rubbermaid tub and move
them into that until they are up on their fins and running around. more water is
superior to almost anything in helping fish thru quarantine. Ingrid

"Kodiak" > wrote:
>and also added some aquasafe tapwater conditioner (2 capfuls)
>I used a Brand new Aquaclear Mini filter with new sponge, and used lavarock
>and Ehfi Substrat media from another tank with already established filter
>media.
>I let the bag soak for 30 minutes to adjust temp before releasing fish
>I also added 0.1% salt solution a few hours later.
>there is no gravel or airstone in the tank.
>
>Fish have been huddled sitting in a bottom corner since last night,
>they are slightly leaned over, they are not swimming around,
>and they are not eating. They looked fine at the LFS.
>
>Here are my parameters;
>Temp 67degF
>NaCl 0.1%
>PH 7.5
>Ammo 0.1ppm (toxic ammo should be )
>N02 0ppm
>N03 didn't bother since it's new tank with fresh water
>GH 60ppm
>KH 30ppm
>
>I am thinking to crank temp up, what temp is good?
>Is PH 7.5 too low?
>GH/KH a bit on the soft side, do I need to Buff up?
>Was the 4 hour transit brutal to them (a bag with 6cups LFS water)?
>Any ideas, it's my first time with Oscars..
>Help appreciated, thanks in advance...
>
>...Kodiak
>
>
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Kodiak]

1 teaspoon per 5 gallons is only 0.035% salt, I put almost
1 tablespoon so I'm hovering about 0.09% you think it's too
hard for a "gill compromised" fish? I will do a small water
change tonight and get it down.

I can't find this polyaqua product anywhere, we are not as
well equipped in Canada. Is it much different than the Aqua
Plus tap water conditioner? I imagine polyaqua to have additional
gill soothing/healing medication? you also mentioned novaqua
(kordon) and Amquel in previous posts, what are the differences,
which is the best? I will go to a new place tomorrow and try to
find anyone of those.

Keeping the airstone 1" off the bottom, is that to minimize them
getting shoved around and tireing them out?

I cranked up the temp to 78degF and they seem to be doing much
better but you got me scared about the loss of oxygen at higher
temp, I will stick an airstone in there now, but I'm worried they will
get shoved around as you said so I'll mount the airstone up high 1"
below the surface.

....Kodiak



> wrote in message
...
> I know less than zero about oscars, but yes, 4 hours in a little bit of
water is
> rough on any fish.
> do not increase temp as that increases oxygen demand. right now their
gills are
> compromised, so you want pristine water, polyaqua and a bit of salt, only
1 teaspoon
> per 5 gallons. keep the water coolish and excellent aeration without
pushing them
> around.. use a big airstone about 1" off the bottom.
> use that ammonia slurper.. stuff you squirt in and it sops up ammonia, use
the
> ammonia test kit goes with that, but mostly get a 40 gallon rubbermaid tub
and move
> them into that until they are up on their fins and running around. more
water is
> superior to almost anything in helping fish thru quarantine. Ingrid
>
> "Kodiak" > wrote:
> >and also added some aquasafe tapwater conditioner (2 capfuls)
> >I used a Brand new Aquaclear Mini filter with new sponge, and used
lavarock
> >and Ehfi Substrat media from another tank with already established filter
> >media.
> >I let the bag soak for 30 minutes to adjust temp before releasing fish
> >I also added 0.1% salt solution a few hours later.
> >there is no gravel or airstone in the tank.
> >
> >Fish have been huddled sitting in a bottom corner since last night,
> >they are slightly leaned over, they are not swimming around,
> >and they are not eating. They looked fine at the LFS.
> >
> >Here are my parameters;
> >Temp 67degF
> >NaCl 0.1%
> >PH 7.5
> >Ammo 0.1ppm (toxic ammo should be )
> >N02 0ppm
> >N03 didn't bother since it's new tank with fresh water
> >GH 60ppm
> >KH 30ppm
> >
> >I am thinking to crank temp up, what temp is good?
> >Is PH 7.5 too low?
> >GH/KH a bit on the soft side, do I need to Buff up?
> >Was the 4 hour transit brutal to them (a bag with 6cups LFS water)?
> >Any ideas, it's my first time with Oscars..
> >Help appreciated, thanks in advance...
> >
> >...Kodiak
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> endorsements or recommendations I make.

[T]

Myself, I have never had much luck with the smaller Oscars.. Why, I really
don't know. I really try to get the Oscars that are around 2inches or
slightly larger, as they seem to handle stress a lot better.. Being in a bag
of water for 4 hrs probably stressed them out badly, from being confined in
a small bag to ammonia problems.. If I have to take fish any distance like
that, I put the bags inside of a ice chest ( with no ice of course.. ) to
keep the temperature from changing drastically.. Your Oscars will much enjoy
a warmer temp as well.. They will live in water temperatures just under 70F
when they are larger, but the preference would be from about 73f to 78f for
thier health. Some people also believe Oscars are easy fish to care for, I
believe this to false as they require a lot of time and maintainence to keep
them healthy.. Hopefully these fellows make it through this part of thier
journey..

Tim...
> wrote in message
...
> I know less than zero about oscars, but yes, 4 hours in a little bit of
water is
> rough on any fish.
> do not increase temp as that increases oxygen demand. right now their
gills are
> compromised, so you want pristine water, polyaqua and a bit of salt, only
1 teaspoon
> per 5 gallons. keep the water coolish and excellent aeration without
pushing them
> around.. use a big airstone about 1" off the bottom.
> use that ammonia slurper.. stuff you squirt in and it sops up ammonia, use
the
> ammonia test kit goes with that, but mostly get a 40 gallon rubbermaid tub
and move
> them into that until they are up on their fins and running around. more
water is
> superior to almost anything in helping fish thru quarantine. Ingrid
>
> "Kodiak" > wrote:
> >and also added some aquasafe tapwater conditioner (2 capfuls)
> >I used a Brand new Aquaclear Mini filter with new sponge, and used
lavarock
> >and Ehfi Substrat media from another tank with already established filter
> >media.
> >I let the bag soak for 30 minutes to adjust temp before releasing fish
> >I also added 0.1% salt solution a few hours later.
> >there is no gravel or airstone in the tank.
> >
> >Fish have been huddled sitting in a bottom corner since last night,
> >they are slightly leaned over, they are not swimming around,
> >and they are not eating. They looked fine at the LFS.
> >
> >Here are my parameters;
> >Temp 67degF
> >NaCl 0.1%
> >PH 7.5
> >Ammo 0.1ppm (toxic ammo should be )
> >N02 0ppm
> >N03 didn't bother since it's new tank with fresh water
> >GH 60ppm
> >KH 30ppm
> >
> >I am thinking to crank temp up, what temp is good?
> >Is PH 7.5 too low?
> >GH/KH a bit on the soft side, do I need to Buff up?
> >Was the 4 hour transit brutal to them (a bag with 6cups LFS water)?
> >Any ideas, it's my first time with Oscars..
> >Help appreciated, thanks in advance...
> >
> >...Kodiak
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Kodiak]

Brought the temp up slowly to 78, then to 80.
They seem to be doing alot better, they actually
ate a bit. Hope they will be Ok now. Thanks for
the feedback. I'll keep you posted on
Oscar and Felix... ...;)
....Kodiak

"T" > wrote in message
link.net...
> Myself, I have never had much luck with the smaller Oscars.. Why, I
really
> don't know. I really try to get the Oscars that are around 2inches or
> slightly larger, as they seem to handle stress a lot better.. Being in a
bag
> of water for 4 hrs probably stressed them out badly, from being confined
in
> a small bag to ammonia problems.. If I have to take fish any distance
like
> that, I put the bags inside of a ice chest ( with no ice of course.. ) to
> keep the temperature from changing drastically.. Your Oscars will much
enjoy
> a warmer temp as well.. They will live in water temperatures just under
70F
> when they are larger, but the preference would be from about 73f to 78f
for
> thier health. Some people also believe Oscars are easy fish to care for, I
> believe this to false as they require a lot of time and maintainence to
keep
> them healthy.. Hopefully these fellows make it through this part of thier
> journey..
>
> Tim...
> > wrote in message
> ...
> > I know less than zero about oscars, but yes, 4 hours in a little bit of
> water is
> > rough on any fish.
> > do not increase temp as that increases oxygen demand. right now their
> gills are
> > compromised, so you want pristine water, polyaqua and a bit of salt,
only
> 1 teaspoon
> > per 5 gallons. keep the water coolish and excellent aeration without
> pushing them
> > around.. use a big airstone about 1" off the bottom.
> > use that ammonia slurper.. stuff you squirt in and it sops up ammonia,
use
> the
> > ammonia test kit goes with that, but mostly get a 40 gallon rubbermaid
tub
> and move
> > them into that until they are up on their fins and running around. more
> water is
> > superior to almost anything in helping fish thru quarantine. Ingrid
> >
> > "Kodiak" > wrote:
> > >and also added some aquasafe tapwater conditioner (2 capfuls)
> > >I used a Brand new Aquaclear Mini filter with new sponge, and used
> lavarock
> > >and Ehfi Substrat media from another tank with already established
filter
> > >media.
> > >I let the bag soak for 30 minutes to adjust temp before releasing fish
> > >I also added 0.1% salt solution a few hours later.
> > >there is no gravel or airstone in the tank.
> > >
> > >Fish have been huddled sitting in a bottom corner since last night,
> > >they are slightly leaned over, they are not swimming around,
> > >and they are not eating. They looked fine at the LFS.
> > >
> > >Here are my parameters;
> > >Temp 67degF
> > >NaCl 0.1%
> > >PH 7.5
> > >Ammo 0.1ppm (toxic ammo should be )
> > >N02 0ppm
> > >N03 didn't bother since it's new tank with fresh water
> > >GH 60ppm
> > >KH 30ppm
> > >
> > >I am thinking to crank temp up, what temp is good?
> > >Is PH 7.5 too low?
> > >GH/KH a bit on the soft side, do I need to Buff up?
> > >Was the 4 hour transit brutal to them (a bag with 6cups LFS water)?
> > >Any ideas, it's my first time with Oscars..
> > >Help appreciated, thanks in advance...
> > >
> > >...Kodiak
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> > http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> > www.drsolo.com
> > Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> > compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> > endorsements or recommendations I make.
>
>

[[email protected]]

I dont know anything about aqua plus, so dont use it. polyaqua is available online.
I save it for emergency and use novaqua the rest of the time. polyaqua is what Jo
Ann recommends for burned gills. it got something soothes gills.
yeah, fish sit next to airstones off the bottom. I think it may increase rate of
water movement up.
yeah, if you got airstone, then go for the recommended temp for the fish. Ingrid

"Kodiak" > wrote:
>I can't find this polyaqua product anywhere, we are not as
>well equipped in Canada. Is it much different than the Aqua
> Plus tap water conditioner? I imagine polyaqua to have additional
>gill soothing/healing medication? you also mentioned novaqua
>(kordon) and Amquel in previous posts, what are the differences,
>which is the best? I will go to a new place tomorrow and try to
>find anyone of those.
>
>Keeping the airstone 1" off the bottom, is that to minimize them
>getting shoved around and tireing them out?
>
>I cranked up the temp to 78degF and they seem to be doing much
>better but you got me scared about the loss of oxygen at higher
>temp, I will stick an airstone in there now, but I'm worried they will
>get shoved around as you said so I'll mount the airstone up high 1"
>below the surface.
>
>...Kodiak
>
>
>
> wrote in message
...
>> I know less than zero about oscars, but yes, 4 hours in a little bit of
>water is
>> rough on any fish.
>> do not increase temp as that increases oxygen demand. right now their
>gills are
>> compromised, so you want pristine water, polyaqua and a bit of salt, only
>1 teaspoon
>> per 5 gallons. keep the water coolish and excellent aeration without
>pushing them
>> around.. use a big airstone about 1" off the bottom.
>> use that ammonia slurper.. stuff you squirt in and it sops up ammonia, use
>the
>> ammonia test kit goes with that, but mostly get a 40 gallon rubbermaid tub
>and move
>> them into that until they are up on their fins and running around. more
>water is
>> superior to almost anything in helping fish thru quarantine. Ingrid
>>
>> "Kodiak" > wrote:
>> >and also added some aquasafe tapwater conditioner (2 capfuls)
>> >I used a Brand new Aquaclear Mini filter with new sponge, and used
>lavarock
>> >and Ehfi Substrat media from another tank with already established filter
>> >media.
>> >I let the bag soak for 30 minutes to adjust temp before releasing fish
>> >I also added 0.1% salt solution a few hours later.
>> >there is no gravel or airstone in the tank.
>> >
>> >Fish have been huddled sitting in a bottom corner since last night,
>> >they are slightly leaned over, they are not swimming around,
>> >and they are not eating. They looked fine at the LFS.
>> >
>> >Here are my parameters;
>> >Temp 67degF
>> >NaCl 0.1%
>> >PH 7.5
>> >Ammo 0.1ppm (toxic ammo should be )
>> >N02 0ppm
>> >N03 didn't bother since it's new tank with fresh water
>> >GH 60ppm
>> >KH 30ppm
>> >
>> >I am thinking to crank temp up, what temp is good?
>> >Is PH 7.5 too low?
>> >GH/KH a bit on the soft side, do I need to Buff up?
>> >Was the 4 hour transit brutal to them (a bag with 6cups LFS water)?
>> >Any ideas, it's my first time with Oscars..
>> >Help appreciated, thanks in advance...
>> >
>> >...Kodiak
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
>> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
>> www.drsolo.com
>> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
>> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
>> endorsements or recommendations I make.
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[[email protected]]

this is true for GF. 4 inches and they seem to be hardier. for koi it is 7 inches.
I think they are more mature and any lethal genes or those with poor immunity die off
before they get to the size. Ingrid

"T" > wrote:
> Myself, I have never had much luck with the smaller Oscars.. Why, I really
>don't know. I really try to get the Oscars that are around 2inches or
>slightly larger, as they seem to handle stress a lot better..


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Geezer From Freezer]

everytime I've introduced a new fish from those bags into a tank they've always
gone
lethargic, i'm not sure if its due the PH difference or hardness difference, but
the fish
I've had seem to come round after a day or two.

[[email protected]]

less fish per bag, more water, pure oxygen not just air blown into bags, squirt of
ammolock or whatever. then open bag immediately and do a 1 minute salt dip and put
the fish into the fresh water of the quarantine tank that has a bit of polyaqua and a
bit of salt. will do much better. Ingrid

Geezer From Freezer > wrote:

>
>everytime I've introduced a new fish from those bags into a tank they've always
>gone
>lethargic, i'm not sure if its due the PH difference or hardness difference, but
>the fish
>I've had seem to come round after a day or two.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Kodiak]

Thank you very much everybody, Oscar and
Felix seem to be doing great now. The airstone
and the temperature rise did wonders.
They are eating very well.
....Kodiak

> wrote in message
...
> this is true for GF. 4 inches and they seem to be hardier. for koi it is
7 inches.
> I think they are more mature and any lethal genes or those with poor
immunity die off
> before they get to the size. Ingrid
>
> "T" > wrote:
> > Myself, I have never had much luck with the smaller Oscars.. Why, I
really
> >don't know. I really try to get the Oscars that are around 2inches or
> >slightly larger, as they seem to handle stress a lot better..
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Geezer From Freezer]

Ingrid, what is this polyaqua - I've never heard of it before

[[email protected]]

put out by kordon (I think) it is a variation of novaqua. order it online. Ingrid

Geezer From Freezer > wrote:

>Ingrid, what is this polyaqua - I've never heard of it before



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.