oranda sits on the bottom of tank

[Alkad Mzu]

my oranda sits on the bottom of the tank.
and is also losing some scales on both sides of the body.
orginally missing one scale on the left side of body the about
a week later i noticed she's missing more and now on both sides.
the goldfish is about an inch and a half long and generally very energetic
but there are time when it just sits there on the bottom of the tank


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[blove]

what size tank is it in? what are the water parameters (ammonia, nitrite,
nitrate)? and is there anything in the tank that is kinda sharp that the
goldfish can injure itself on?

"Alkad Mzu" > wrote in message
news:pan.2004.01.18.03.50.46.17361@linuxquestions. org...
> my oranda sits on the bottom of the tank.
> and is also losing some scales on both sides of the body.
> orginally missing one scale on the left side of body the about
> a week later i noticed she's missing more and now on both sides.
> the goldfish is about an inch and a half long and generally very energetic
> but there are time when it just sits there on the bottom of the tank
>
>
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[[email protected]]

EMERGENCY
1. check the water parameters: pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrates
2. do the fish physical
3. change some or all of the water, add 1 teaspoon salt per 5 gallons water
4. from the water parameters and physical decide on a course of action
5. if there is nothing specific, do the tub to tub method

if you got a pleco in the tank, get it out.

"Alkad Mzu" > wrote:

>my oranda sits on the bottom of the tank.
>and is also losing some scales on both sides of the body.
>orginally missing one scale on the left side of body the about
>a week later i noticed she's missing more and now on both sides.
>the goldfish is about an inch and a half long and generally very energetic
>but there are time when it just sits there on the bottom of the tank
>
>
>----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
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>---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Alkad Mzu]

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 04:50:34 +0000, dr-sol wrote:

> EMERGENCY
> 1. check the water parameters: pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrates
> 2. do the fish physical
> 3. change some or all of the water, add 1 teaspoon salt per 5 gallons water
> 4. from the water parameters and physical decide on a course of action
> 5. if there is nothing specific, do the tub to tub method
>
> if you got a pleco in the tank, get it out.
>
> "Alkad Mzu" > wrote:
>
>>my oranda sits on the bottom of the tank.
>>and is also losing some scales on both sides of the body.
>>orginally missing one scale on the left side of body the about
>>a week later i noticed she's missing more and now on both sides.
>>the goldfish is about an inch and a half long and generally very energetic
>>but there are time when it just sits there on the bottom of the tank
>>
>>
>>----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
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>>---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> endorsements or recommendations I make.


10 gallon two small fish.
one is the oranda and the other is fantail.
the oranda tend to sit on the bottom of tank and comes up to eat
then usually swims normally and does all the things indicative of a
healthy fish but within the hour the fish resumes it's seemingly preffered
position.

nitrite= .25
amonia= .5 -1.
ph= 7.6
I change 25-30% of water every two days
and add 3table spoons of aquarium salt every four days( to compensate for an undersized
tank) and 10 ml of stress zyme on water changes. im almost sure that
having a 10 gallon tank is the source of the problem so im going to cough
up some cash for a 20 to 30 gallon setup. advice on how to get the fish
from one tank to the other asap will be greatly appreciated. thanks for al
the help this group is awesome.


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[Donald Kerns]

Alkad Mzu wrote:

> nitrite= .25
> amonia= .5 -1.
>

Whoop-whoop-whoop.

Cycle / biofilter problem.

Water changes, big water changes (like 50%) are needed.

If you can, get some AmQuel to hammer back the ammonia (in the short
term). If you haven't salt to 1 teaspoon (+) of aquarium salt per 5
gallons (helps with the nitrite).

Cut back feeding to once everyother day until the ammonia and nitrite
come under control...

-D
--
"Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving
that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the
proof." -Galbraith's Law

[LoaderLady]

You might want to ease up on the salt. 2 tbsp in your tank period is
plenty. The salt should be aqua salt or coarse pickling salt (not table
salt). If you do a 50% water change, only add 1 more tbsp of salt.

Would the ammonia cause the fish to loose scales? I had an oranda loose
scales, but it was because he got caught in the siphon (it's amazing how
quick this can happen!). I've never heard of anything besides accidents
causing lost scales. Is the fish rubbing on the gravel a lot, maybe?

--
}<> Tammy <>{
Support the Canakin Project with me, by linking to your favorite store from
this address:
http://www.geocities.com/ontario_canakin All Proceeds will be used to
purchase equipment, fish, etc for the Canakin Project

Watkins Business Opportunity
www.tsginfo.com Enter code TD3796
Me and my fish Thank You!!
"Alkad Mzu" > wrote in message
news:pan.2004.01.18.17.14.56.845729@linuxquestions .org...
> On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 04:50:34 +0000, dr-sol wrote:
>
> > EMERGENCY
> > 1. check the water parameters: pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrates
> > 2. do the fish physical
> > 3. change some or all of the water, add 1 teaspoon salt per 5 gallons
water
> > 4. from the water parameters and physical decide on a course of action
> > 5. if there is nothing specific, do the tub to tub method
> >
> > if you got a pleco in the tank, get it out.
> >
> > "Alkad Mzu" > wrote:
> >
> >>my oranda sits on the bottom of the tank.
> >>and is also losing some scales on both sides of the body.
> >>orginally missing one scale on the left side of body the about
> >>a week later i noticed she's missing more and now on both sides.
> >>the goldfish is about an inch and a half long and generally very
energetic
> >>but there are time when it just sits there on the bottom of the tank
> >>
> >>
> >>----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
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Newsgroups
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Encryption =---
> >
> >
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> > http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> > www.drsolo.com
> > Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> > compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> > endorsements or recommendations I make.
>
>
> 10 gallon two small fish.
> one is the oranda and the other is fantail.
> the oranda tend to sit on the bottom of tank and comes up to eat
> then usually swims normally and does all the things indicative of a
> healthy fish but within the hour the fish resumes it's seemingly preffered
> position.
>
> nitrite= .25
> amonia= .5 -1.
> ph= 7.6
> I change 25-30% of water every two days
> and add 3table spoons of aquarium salt every four days( to compensate for
an undersized
> tank) and 10 ml of stress zyme on water changes. im almost sure that
> having a 10 gallon tank is the source of the problem so im going to cough
> up some cash for a 20 to 30 gallon setup. advice on how to get the fish
> from one tank to the other asap will be greatly appreciated. thanks for al
> the help this group is awesome.
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
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Newsgroups
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[[email protected]]

oh yeah.. the ammonia and the nitrites are too high and it is considered toxic
water. and yes, the toxic water can cause the fish to rub and dart and go nuts... or
sit fins clamped on teh bottom too. Ingrid

"LoaderLady" > wrote:

>You might want to ease up on the salt. 2 tbsp in your tank period is
>plenty. The salt should be aqua salt or coarse pickling salt (not table
>salt). If you do a 50% water change, only add 1 more tbsp of salt.
>
>Would the ammonia cause the fish to loose scales? I had an oranda loose
>scales, but it was because he got caught in the siphon (it's amazing how
>quick this can happen!). I've never heard of anything besides accidents
>causing lost scales. Is the fish rubbing on the gravel a lot, maybe?



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Geezer From Freezer]

Alkad Mzu wrote:

> I change 25-30% of water every two days
> and add 3table spoons of aquarium salt every four days( to compensate for an undersized
> tank)

Hmm if you are adding 3 table spoons every four days and only taking out 50-60%
of the water
your salt levels are going to rise considerably!

[alkad mzu]

whats a pleco
> wrote in message
...
> EMERGENCY
> 1. check the water parameters: pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrates
> 2. do the fish physical
> 3. change some or all of the water, add 1 teaspoon salt per 5 gallons
water
> 4. from the water parameters and physical decide on a course of action
> 5. if there is nothing specific, do the tub to tub method
>
> if you got a pleco in the tank, get it out.
>
> "Alkad Mzu" > wrote:
>
> >my oranda sits on the bottom of the tank.
> >and is also losing some scales on both sides of the body.
> >orginally missing one scale on the left side of body the about
> >a week later i noticed she's missing more and now on both sides.
> >the goldfish is about an inch and a half long and generally very
energetic
> >but there are time when it just sits there on the bottom of the tank
> >
> >
> >----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
> >http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000
Newsgroups
> >---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via
Encryption =---
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> endorsements or recommendations I make.

[LoaderLady]

You would know the pleco as an "algae eater", which is what they are sold as
in department stores. I assume they are the same thing...

[Donald Kerns]

LoaderLady wrote:

> You would know the pleco as an "algae eater", which is what they are
> sold as
> in department stores. I assume they are the same thing...

Well... sorta...

another name might be "Sucker mouth catfish"...

There are more algae eaters than just plecos...

CAE,
SAE

-D
--
"Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving
that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the
proof." -Galbraith's Law

[alkad mzu]

On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 23:18:54 -0800, Donald Kerns wrote:

> LoaderLady wrote:
>
>> You would know the pleco as an "algae eater", which is what they are
>> sold as
>> in department stores. I assume they are the same thing...
>
> Well... sorta...
>
> another name might be "Sucker mouth catfish"...
>
> There are more algae eaters than just plecos...
>
> CAE,
> SAE
>
> -D
got it.
I dont have a pleco.
I only have two fish. a fantail and an oranda.
the fantail is thriving but the oranda was sitting at the bottom of the
tank.
However I am please to say that I think its going to make it.
I did an almost comlpete water change and brought the ph to
7.6 which for whatever reasons is the lowest number on the kit's chart
and amonia levels to 0.0. the nitrite is an other story, no matter how
much
water changing i do the lowest i can get to is .25. I'm going to hunt down
this Amquel. I found it online but I need it sooner and there are no
aquarium stores near me -in fact I looked in the
yellow pages and found one aquarium store seven miles away
in the borough i live in.

Im afraid NYC has turned into a very cold place,
and I'm not talking about the weather.

as for the fish it's no longer sitting at the bottom. its doing quite
normal swimming but the nitrite results tell me that my problems are
still a bay.


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[[email protected]]

amquel wont help nitrites. get a new test kit. if there is no ammonia, and you have
some nitrates then you really shouldnt have any nitrites at all... altho DO test your
tap water. Ingrid

"alkad mzu" > wrote:
>7.6 which for whatever reasons is the lowest number on the kit's chart
>and amonia levels to 0.0. the nitrite is an other story, no matter how
>much
>water changing i do the lowest i can get to is .25.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[alkad mzu]

On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 16:49:48 +0000, dr-sol wrote:

> amquel wont help nitrites. get a new test kit. if there is no ammonia, and you have
> some nitrates then you really shouldnt have any nitrites at all... altho DO test your
> tap water. Ingrid
>
> "alkad mzu" > wrote:
>>7.6 which for whatever reasons is the lowest number on the kit's chart
>>and amonia levels to 0.0. the nitrite is an other story, no matter how
>>much
>>water changing i do the lowest i can get to is .25.
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> endorsements or recommendations I make.
Im glad you said this.
my first reaction was to test the tap water and it was negative.
I guess there is some sort of flaw in the test kit.
Aquarium pharmacuticals makes the test kits i use. they seem to have a
pretty strong hold on my local petstore. I say this becouse I recently
took a closer look at the fish care products I've purchased from that
petstore and they all share aquarium pharmacuticals inc. as their
distributors.






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[[email protected]]

I use the aq.pharm stuff seems to work fine, BUT, if it been sitting around a while
it gets old. Ingrid

"alkad mzu" > wrote:
>my first reaction was to test the tap water and it was negative.
>I guess there is some sort of flaw in the test kit.
>Aquarium pharmacuticals makes the test kits i use. they seem to have a
>pretty strong hold on my local petstore. I say this becouse I recently
>took a closer look at the fish care products I've purchased from that
>petstore and they all share aquarium pharmacuticals inc. as their
>distributors.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[alkad mzu]

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 14:23:17 +0000, dr-sol wrote:

> I use the aq.pharm stuff seems to work fine, BUT, if it been sitting around a while
> it gets old. Ingrid
>
> "alkad mzu" > wrote:
>>my first reaction was to test the tap water and it was negative.
>>I guess there is some sort of flaw in the test kit.
>>Aquarium pharmacuticals makes the test kits i use. they seem to have a
>>pretty strong hold on my local petstore. I say this becouse I recently
>>took a closer look at the fish care products I've purchased from that
>>petstore and they all share aquarium pharmacuticals inc. as their
>>distributors.
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> endorsements or recommendations I make.
thanks Ingrid for the reply.
now I don't know if this should become a new thread
but here goes anyway.

I had ordered an aqua clear 500 filter.
I didnt know that it was going to be so big. pumps 500 galons an hour!
at this point my oranda' condition after improving slightly was now
deteriorating and the fantail was now also sitting at the bottom of the
tank with the occasional darting here and there. I didnt know what else to
do and figured they were both dead anyway so I put the aquaclear 5 to
work.
I followed all the instructions like rinsing the carbon filled bag and so
on and after about 45min to an 1hr the fish began to take on new life and
the water is crystal clear. this was tuesday morn. today I arrived from
work and the fish look great they are swimming around, picking at gravel
and look apparently content, strong and energetic. I have done searches on

google hoping to find literature and the outcome of overfiltering to this
extent. any thoughts or advise will be greatly apreciated


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[MartinOsirus]

> the outcome of overfiltering to this
>extent. any thoughts or advise will be greatly apreciated

Overfiltering is definitely the way to go with all aquarium fish - especially
goldfish.

[alkad mzu]

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 17:23:56 -0500, alkad mzu wrote:

> On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 14:23:17 +0000, dr-sol wrote:
>
>> I use the aq.pharm stuff seems to work fine, BUT, if it been sitting around a while
>> it gets old. Ingrid
>>
>> "alkad mzu" > wrote:
>>>my first reaction was to test the tap water and it was negative.
>>>I guess there is some sort of flaw in the test kit.
>>>Aquarium pharmacuticals makes the test kits i use. they seem to have a
>>>pretty strong hold on my local petstore. I say this becouse I recently
>>>took a closer look at the fish care products I've purchased from that
>>>petstore and they all share aquarium pharmacuticals inc. as their
>>>distributors.
>>
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
>> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
>> www.drsolo.com
>> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
>> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
>> endorsements or recommendations I make.
> thanks Ingrid for the reply.
> now I don't know if this should become a new thread
> but here goes anyway.
>
> I had ordered an aqua clear 500 filter.
> I didnt know that it was going to be so big. pumps 500 galons an hour!
> at this point my oranda' condition after improving slightly was now
> deteriorating and the fantail was now also sitting at the bottom of the
> tank with the occasional darting here and there. I didnt know what else to
> do and figured they were both dead anyway so I put the aquaclear 5 to
> work.
> I followed all the instructions like rinsing the carbon filled bag and so
> on and after about 45min to an 1hr the fish began to take on new life and
> the water is crystal clear. this was tuesday morn. today I arrived from
> work and the fish look great they are swimming around, picking at gravel
> and look apparently content, strong and energetic. I have done searches on
>
> google hoping to find literature and the outcome of overfiltering to this
> extent. any thoughts or advise will be greatly apreciated
>
>
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also the filter suggest that that you include the amonia neutralizar
but i'm afraid to put it in the filter for fear of the bag of amonia
neutralizer poluting the tank. I say this because no matter how much I
rinse it, it always leaks residue and im shure that if this were
happenning in the tank it would not be a pretty thing to watch.
thanks again



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[[email protected]]

there was something toxic in your tanks. you got gravel? well definitely you could
have something toxic brewing down in that gravel. the filter and carbon will pull
the toxins out for a week or two, then overwhelm the new filter as well. move the
fish to aerated tub of water, pull that gravel out and clean it. Ingrid

"alkad mzu" > wrote:
>I followed all the instructions like rinsing the carbon filled bag and so
>on and after about 45min to an 1hr the fish began to take on new life and
>the water is crystal clear. this was tuesday morn. today I arrived from
>work and the fish look great they are swimming around, picking at gravel
>and look apparently content, strong and energetic. I have done searches on



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[alkad mzu]

On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 01:12:58 +0000, MartinOsirus wrote:

>> the outcome of overfiltering to this
>>extent. any thoughts or advise will be greatly apreciated
>
> Overfiltering is definitely the way to go with all aquarium fish - especially
> goldfish.

also the filter suggest that that you include the amonia neutralizar
but i'm afraid to put it in the filter for fear of the bag of amonia
neutralizer poluting the tank. I say this because no matter how much I
rinse it, it always leaks residue and im shure that if this were
happenning in the tank it would not be a pretty thing to watch.
thanks again



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[alkad mzu]

On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 19:41:25 -0500, alkad mzu wrote:

> On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 01:12:58 +0000, MartinOsirus wrote:
>
>>> the outcome of overfiltering to this
>>>extent. any thoughts or advise will be greatly apreciated
>>
>> Overfiltering is definitely the way to go with all aquarium fish - especially
>> goldfish.
>
> also the filter suggest that that you include the amonia neutralizar
> but i'm afraid to put it in the filter for fear of the bag of amonia
> neutralizer poluting the tank. I say this because no matter how much I
> rinse it, it always leaks residue and im shure that if this were
> happenning in the tank it would not be a pretty thing to watch.
> thanks again
>
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
> http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
> ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

this is in response to my own concern.
after temporarily giving up on on the bag of amonia neutralizer,
I decided to resume the installation. ( I imagine someone with a pond
is probably reading this and saying "installation?" gimme a break).
I had been using a 10gallon rubber bucket and a 1 gallon plastic pitcher for
water changes. I find it easier to keep track of the percentage of water
changing by using a 1 gallon pitcher intsead of a python.

I filled the 10 gallon bucket with 7 or 8 gallons of the aquariums
water, hung my old whisper 30 on it, 1 teaspoon of aquarium salt, and
2 teaspoons of aquarium pharmacutical brand stress zyme.
I kept the two gfs in there for 1.5 hours while I installed the amonia
neutralizer bag on on my filter. now, if anyone reading this notices
that I maybe doing something wrong please let me know.
the filter i have is an aquaclear 500 and it sais on the boxthat it pumps
500 gallons an hour. I have a 10 gallon tank. I imagine all of my tanks
water get filtered 50 times in one hour. before i got this filter I had a
nitrite problem that wouldnt go a way no matter how much of the water
I changed. it was about to kill my oranda. the new filter got the fish
well again. long story short: Amonia neutralizer was installed and gfs are
doing fine. I had been slowly removing all the gravel from since i read
that gravel isnt good for goldfish four days ago and finally got it all
out
on friday. and i also noticed after testing the buckets water for nitrite
levels that the nitrite leves were back proving that the whisper 30,
although claiming to filter a 30 gallon tank, cant even properly filter a
bucket with two fish and 8 gallons of water. the same water was tested
while in the aquarium with the aqua500 and nitrite levels were 0.0


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[Azul]

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 02:45:00 -0500, "alkad mzu" >
wrote:

>I had been slowly removing all the gravel from since i read
>that gravel isnt good for goldfish four days ago and finally got it all
>out
>on friday. and i also noticed after testing the buckets water for nitrite
>levels that the nitrite leves were back proving that the whisper 30,
>although claiming to filter a 30 gallon tank, cant even properly filter a
>bucket with two fish and 8 gallons of water. the same water was tested
>while in the aquarium with the aqua500 and nitrite levels were 0.0

Did you read the articles on cycling? It is not something that
happens over night. It will take several weeks unless you have access
to a product called Biospria.

The fish produce ammonia as waste. It will take a while for the
bacteria that transform the ammonia to nitrite to establish
themselves. As this happens you will see the nitrite levels rise. You
must keep doing the water changes and watch the levels. The second
set of bacteria will start to establish themselves in the filter and
you will see the appearance of nitrAte. Slowly the level of nitrIte
will go down as the level of nitrAte goes up.

As I said it takes weeks. Then you should see the nitrIte level at 0
once the tank is cycled.

Just because all the water is going thru the filter right now does NOT
mean that it will remove the nitrIte or the ammonia. But once the
filter is cycled it will.

In my Aquaclears, I have two sponges and a little bag filled with
polyester batting. When I change the filter media, I only change one
thing at a time. Like one sponge.... or the polyester. That way my
tank never has to recycle itself completely. The sponges and bag get
rinsed in a bucket of old tank water and then put back in the filter
every time I do a water change.

Read these two sites for more info of beginning fish keeping:

The Beginner FAQ (Basic Fish keeping, not specific to goldies)

http://fins.actwin.com/mirror/begin.html

PureGold - Care of Goldfish

http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/care/care.htm

Azul

[alkad mzu]

On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 14:36:14 +0000, dr-sol wrote:

> there was something toxic in your tanks. you got gravel? well definitely you could
> have something toxic brewing down in that gravel. the filter and carbon will pull
> the toxins out for a week or two, then overwhelm the new filter as well. move the
> fish to aerated tub of water, pull that gravel out and clean it. Ingrid
>
> "alkad mzu" > wrote:
> >I followed all the instructions like rinsing the carbon filled bag and so
>>on and after about 45min to an 1hr the fish began to take on new life and
>>the water is crystal clear. this was tuesday morn. today I arrived from
>>work and the fish look great they are swimming around, picking at gravel
>>and look apparently content, strong and energetic. I have done searches on
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> endorsements or recommendations I make.

thanks they'r doing fine I got rid of the gravel (based on info on your
site)
thanks drsolo. you've probably seen these pics of the fish already. the
pics on my site are reacent and show my two very happy gfs.
http://www.alkadmzu.com
pics labeled buddy are of my dog
and the ones labeled fish are current pics
of the two little goldfish the info on puregold have helped make happy and
heathy.
there is on labeld fish spongebob, that one was taken before the oranda
got sick.
ps. the site is safe and contains nothing but pics of my pets and no pics
of people.



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[alkad mzu]

On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 18:24:50 -0500, alkad mzu wrote:

> On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 14:36:14 +0000, dr-sol wrote:
>
>> there was something toxic in your tanks. you got gravel? well definitely you could
>> have something toxic brewing down in that gravel. the filter and carbon will pull
>> the toxins out for a week or two, then overwhelm the new filter as well. move the
>> fish to aerated tub of water, pull that gravel out and clean it. Ingrid
>>
>> "alkad mzu" > wrote:
>> >I followed all the instructions like rinsing the carbon filled bag and so
>>>on and after about 45min to an 1hr the fish began to take on new life and
>>>the water is crystal clear. this was tuesday morn. today I arrived from
>>>work and the fish look great they are swimming around, picking at gravel
>>>and look apparently content, strong and energetic. I have done searches on
>>
>>
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
>> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
>> www.drsolo.com
>> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
>> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
>> endorsements or recommendations I make.
>
> thanks they'r doing fine I got rid of the gravel (based on info on your
> site)
> thanks drsolo. you've probably seen these pics of the fish already. the
> pics on my site are reacent and show my two very happy gfs.
> http://www.alkadmzu.com
> pics labeled buddy are of my dog
> and the ones labeled fish are current pics
> of the two little goldfish the info on puregold have helped make happy and
> heathy.
> there is on labeld fish spongebob, that one was taken before the oranda
> got sick.
> ps. the site is safe and contains nothing but pics of my pets and no pics
> of people.
>
>
>
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> ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---


whoops it seems I wrote the reply to your mesage
be for i read your entire post.
when you said to clean the gravel, was i supposed to clean it and put it
back in the tank? i have had the tank with no gravel, a rock and an
airstone for four days now. the tank is definately cleaner and the fish
seem to be doing good four days and counting.


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[[email protected]]

keep a very close eye on the water parameters as the gravel does carry quite a bit of
the biofilter. I do advise cleaning the gravel, putting it back and slowly removing
it one handful per day. but ONLY if the tank is overstocked. as long as there isnt
any ammonia or nitrite spike AND you like the look of the bare tank, leave the gravel
out for the health of the fish and the ease of taking care of water quality. Ingrid

"alkad mzu" > wrote:
>whoops it seems I wrote the reply to your mesage
>be for i read your entire post.
>when you said to clean the gravel, was i supposed to clean it and put it
>back in the tank? i have had the tank with no gravel, a rock and an
>airstone for four days now. the tank is definately cleaner and the fish
>seem to be doing good four days and counting.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[alkad mzu]

On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 00:58:29 +0000, dr-sol wrote:

> keep a very close eye on the water parameters as the gravel does carry quite a bit of
> the biofilter. I do advise cleaning the gravel, putting it back and slowly removing
> it one handful per day. but ONLY if the tank is overstocked. as long as there isnt
> any ammonia or nitrite spike AND you like the look of the bare tank, leave the gravel
> out for the health of the fish and the ease of taking care of water quality. Ingrid
>
> "alkad mzu" > wrote:
>>whoops it seems I wrote the reply to your mesage
>>be for i read your entire post.
>>when you said to clean the gravel, was i supposed to clean it and put it
>>back in the tank? i have had the tank with no gravel, a rock and an
>>airstone for four days now. the tank is definately cleaner and the fish
>>seem to be doing good four days and counting.
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> endorsements or recommendations I make.

wow!
you said a mouthful when saying keep a close eye.
as I was writing the last post the oranda began to float sideways.
I remembered that there was a post in this group where some's fish had the
same problem and the solution given was to change 50% of water and feed
green peas. I did that and the fish was well within the hour.
poor thing coudnt stay down. I took it in my hands while still
in the water to do the fish physical and noticed it was still very strong.
it seemed like gas becaused she pooped a lining (simular to that of which
suasage is wrapped)with tiny bubbles and very little green.
what could of cuased the gas? maby my air stone was wearring out and
filling the tank with bubbles to small in size that would be spread
through
out the tank by the curents formed by the waterfal effect of the filter.
I put in a new airstone of the same kind

two questions how much is too much green peas? i notice that a single pea
doesnt seem like enough.
can you point me to any literature that describes general healthy
goldfish behavior? i ask this becuase I test the water every day and
am aware that a 10g tank is subject to drastically different water
conditions in short spans of time and can upset the fish therefore
changing their behavior ei: when i first installed the new filter,
the fish -specialy the oranda- was often sucking in water very
vigorously making a trumpet like shape with its mouth and gills
venting largely in and out very noticeable.

ps thank you drsolo for the quick replies last night. like i said, after
i wrote my last message I had to take care of the oranda.
and I dont have any algea eaters but will get a 30 gallon for the
two fish on friday and in the future consider getting a third one.
thankyou again


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[[email protected]]

http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/care/care1.htm#buying%20a%20new%20goldfish
healthy gf are busy, busy
http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/disease/technique/technique.html#JoAnns_diagnosis_by_poop
it is not your airstone. it is gas from overfeeding or wrong kind of food AND
overfeeding. look at
http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/disease/symptom/symptom.htm#floating%20problems
GF get gas. they can eat bubbles of air when they are constipated too.
your welcome. Ingrid

"alkad mzu" > wrote:
>it seemed like gas becaused she pooped a lining (simular to that of which
>suasage is wrapped)with tiny bubbles and very little green.
>what could of cuased the gas?
>can you point me to any literature that describes general healthy
>goldfish behavior? i ask this becuase I test the water every day and
>am aware that a 10g tank is subject to drastically different water
>conditions in short spans of time and can upset the fish therefore
>changing their behavior ei: when i first installed the new filter,
>the fish -specialy the oranda- was often sucking in water very
>vigorously making a trumpet like shape with its mouth and gills
>venting largely in and out very noticeable.
>
>ps thank you drsolo for the quick replies last night. like i said, after
>i wrote my last message I had to take care of the oranda.
>and I dont have any algea eaters but will get a 30 gallon for the
>two fish on friday and in the future consider getting a third one.
>thankyou again


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.