aeromonas

[esq.]

I was OT from the original thread , sorry for that.
The old thread addressed live foods, infections in goldfish, ie tubifex worms
and aeromonas bacteria. The aeromonas species is of the types that are known to
be pathogenic to goldfish.
Ingrid gave three references that have 84F as lethal temperatures to the
bacteria. I can't find those books so maybe she could copy from some of them
and post? If her references are correct, rinse live food in luke warm water and
the bacteria is dead. I would like that to be the case.
The info I collected from: Journal of fish biology, Journal of fisheries
science, journal of fish diseases and leaflets from the SRAC, do not agree with
her references. (?)
The growth ranges, in water, for A. Salmonicida is 42.8-94.1F.

[[email protected]]

Jo Ann Burke's phone number is 1-251-649-4790
give her a call, she will be happy to discuss her findings with you. Ingrid

(esq.) wrote:
>I was OT from the original thread , sorry for that.
>The old thread addressed live foods, infections in goldfish, ie tubifex worms
>and aeromonas bacteria. The aeromonas species is of the types that are known to
>be pathogenic to goldfish.
>Ingrid gave three references that have 84F as lethal temperatures to the
>bacteria. I can't find those books so maybe she could copy from some of them
>and post? If her references are correct, rinse live food in luke warm water and
>the bacteria is dead. I would like that to be the case.
>The info I collected from: Journal of fish biology, Journal of fisheries
>science, journal of fish diseases and leaflets from the SRAC, do not agree with
>her references. (?)
>The growth ranges, in water, for A. Salmonicida is 42.8-94.1F.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[esq.]

>give her a call, she will be happy to discuss her findings with you. Ingrid

Ingrid,
84F treatment is dangerous to fish and humans.
Dr. Noga isn't sure what you are trying to cite in his book to support your 84F
treatment, he said:
*Aeromonas survives 37C (98.6F).
*Aeromonas can transfer from fish to infect humans, but not commonly.
*Aeromonas survives freezing and can be freeze dried.
He also sent some unpublished info, what a guy! :-)

[esq.]

>Temperatures at or above 84oF kill the common species of aeromonas that
>infect
>Goldfish

Dr. Noga said; The aeromonas species infecting goldfish survive 84F and are
transferable to humans (98.6F).

Ingrid is inferring I made it up, I quoted from Dr. Noga's letter. Ingrid
referenced Dr. Noga's book, I contacted Dr. Noga and he responded.
The rest of her post is defamation. I suggest Ingrid get the facts and correct
her mistake(s).

[Tom La Bron]

Esq.

Welcome to the world of Ingrid Burke. If she or Jo Ann said it, it is
gospel. And God Help you if you refute her. You noticed she has already
trying to brand you. She knows it is not me because I sign all my messages,
although others have been accused of being me. The last one that I know of
is a young handicapped fellow who was on puregold who was questioning a
story that Ingrid was relating about Jo Ann and he refuted her information
with documented literature from Professors at a University, who told him
that she was wrong. Needless to say, he got kicked off Puregold and he even
received a nasty message from Jo Ann threatening him. Like I said in my
messages about live worms neither Noga or Stoskopf don't say any thing about
84 degrees killing Aeromonas as her message implied. I find it interesting
that she is now discounting Noga who she otherwise quotes all the time.

Ingrid's remark about Jo Ann is a little ridiculous. She was/is a LFS owner
who took a couple of courses and now she is "Jo Ann Burke is the leading
expert on Goldfish care and treatment in the United States and perhaps the
world;" is just a little much to take. I don't know why you say she is such
an expert about Aeromonas because I just got off the phone with a friend who
purchased $600 of fish from her about 6 years ago and when he received them
they were seething with Aeromonas and all she could give him was platitudes
over the phone about curing his fish of which half died. Needless to say,
he never bought or spoke to her again.

Oh and by the way, Ingrid your story has changed I though Ruth was Jo Ann's
teacher, at least that is what she told me, and I haven't spoken to her
lately, but to my knowledge she has never met Noga. I may be wrong, but
somehow I don't think so, at least the last time I spoke to Noga he didn't
know who she was.

Well, Esq. have a good day.

Tom L.L.
-------------------------------------------------------------
"esq." > wrote in message
...
>
> >Temperatures at or above 84oF kill the common species of aeromonas that
> >infect
> >Goldfish
>
> Dr. Noga said; The aeromonas species infecting goldfish survive 84F and
are
> transferable to humans (98.6F).
>
> Ingrid is inferring I made it up, I quoted from Dr. Noga's letter. Ingrid
> referenced Dr. Noga's book, I contacted Dr. Noga and he responded.
> The rest of her post is defamation. I suggest Ingrid get the facts and
correct
> her mistake(s).

[[email protected]]

I give a lot of my time trying to helping people with sick GF on this list and
elsewhere. I make no money from it, in fact I foot the bill for the cost of the
Puregold website and email list, etc. I have no sponsors, I dont get any free
anything from ANYBODY. I choose not to waste any time responding to the repeated,
boring attacks by a couple people and their various "incarnations" on this and other
lists.

If your fish are infected with aeromonas each and every one of you can either take my
advice and run the temp up to 84oF and save the fish like many, many other people
have done, or, you can wait for the pearls of wisdom from those who's main
contribution to this list is attacking the advice I give and/or pass along from Jo
Ann Burke, Noga, and others.

I will only say this.... these "incarnations" appear suddenly, have no history on the
internet and after being "outted" they disappear again. While I have no absolute
"proof" that any of the 6 or 7 "incarnations" actually are this person, he did
accidently post his intentions of making up a whole new persona and address and again
sneak back onto Puregold, my goldfish list. Evidently this was meant to go privately
to somebody but ended up on another GF list.

http://makeashorterlink.com/?H34532247
"Well, I will talk at you later and by the way the new person on puregold is not
me. I wish I had thought of the name. I will be signing on today probably
under name Pathimoho is Osage Language for Pawnee Tribe.
Well, I got to run. Talk at you later.
God Bless and Keep You and Yours,
Regards from Pawnee America and hope you have a Great "Pop Goes The Weasel Day
Tom La Bron"

Since I am quite sure this person is bogus, they too go onto the killfile list and I
wont be responding to any more attacks. Ingrid



(esq.) wrote:
>Path: twister.rdc-kc.rr.com!cyclone.kc.rr.com!ngpeer.news.aol.com!au drey-m2.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
>Lines: 12
>X-Admin:
>From: (esq.)
>Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.freshwater.goldfish
>Date: 31 Jan 2004 16:13:29 GMT
>References: >
>Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
>Subject: Re: aeromonas
>Message-ID: >
>Xref: cyclone.kc.rr.com rec.aquaria.freshwater.goldfish:37084
>
>
>>Temperatures at or above 84oF kill the common species of aeromonas that
>>infect
>>Goldfish
>
>Dr. Noga said; The aeromonas species infecting goldfish survive 84F and are
>transferable to humans (98.6F).
>
>Ingrid is inferring I made it up, I quoted from Dr. Noga's letter. Ingrid
>referenced Dr. Noga's book, I contacted Dr. Noga and he responded.
>The rest of her post is defamation. I suggest Ingrid get the facts and correct
>her mistake(s).



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Tom La Bron]

Ingrid, Ingrid, Ingrid,

I have admitted to sneaking on to your precious Puregold site before and
have I published the inflammatory emails that you sent me calling me all
sorts of names; no, of course not, I haven't. But just like me, you and Jo
Ann, have taken on other email addy names and have done the same thing never
using your real names . But I have only been on your site twice and how
many people have you kicked off the list thinking it was me. And the reason
they were kicked off your list is because they did not take your diatribes
as the "whole truth and nothing but the truth," attitude. Just like here,
in this one, even Noga, a respected individual in the Aquaculture community
doing research on fish and fish diseases having written a book that is
valued by the entire aquaculture community and you are going to put up Jo
Ann's photocopied publication on the same level and say that he is not into
Goldfish so what he says is not valid in this case. If that is the case I
hope to never see another reference from you using Noga as a source. You
also better take it off your website and a source. After I was first on
your list under my own name and was kicked off after proving what you said
was not correct. I got on again under a different name, and was kicked off
again because I refuted some of the thing you said that were not true. But
I was only on your list under a different name once. So that make only
twice I was on your list total. I have never used that email addy, and the
proof is in the signature line since I have never used the remark "pop goes
....." Golly Ingrid I am flattered knowing that you have kept an email, but
in this case you didn't cut and paste very well.

Oh and by the way, I am not Esq. if that is what you are getting at.
Everytime some one confronts you, you always start accusing people of
something sinister. Sorry, Esq., it looks like you have been added to
Ingrid's killfile, which means you are dead to her, because you are too
formidable and are not afraid to give the correct information even though it
refutes what she is saying. I think I found six scholarly dissertations
refuting what she said including the Noga and Stoskopf reference books.

Oh, Ingrid, you said that we were attacking the information of Noga, I am
sorry missy it was you that refuted his advice. I have never attacked any
thing that Noga has said, it is you that were inferring that his assessment
agreed with your temperature theory and Esq presented information directly
from Noga that refuted what you were implying. You said, "Goldfish has
never been one of Dr. Noga's research interests as far as I know." Now you
are imply that his disease research does not apply to Goldfish. Come on
get your facts straight. Sorry, you can't have your cake and eat it too in
this case.

Esq, if you are reading this, I would very much like a copy of the Noga
letter for my files, if you don't mind.

So it looks like this thread is dead with Ingrid going off in huff.

Hope you have a nice day.

Tom L.L.
====================================
> wrote in message
...
> I give a lot of my time trying to helping people with sick GF on this list
and
> elsewhere. I make no money from it, in fact I foot the bill for the cost
of the
> Puregold website and email list, etc. I have no sponsors, I dont get any
free
> anything from ANYBODY. I choose not to waste any time responding to the
repeated,
> boring attacks by a couple people and their various "incarnations" on this
and other
> lists.
>
> If your fish are infected with aeromonas each and every one of you can
either take my
> advice and run the temp up to 84oF and save the fish like many, many other
people
> have done, or, you can wait for the pearls of wisdom from those who's
main
> contribution to this list is attacking the advice I give and/or pass along
from Jo
> Ann Burke, Noga, and others.
>
> I will only say this.... these "incarnations" appear suddenly, have no
history on the
> internet and after being "outted" they disappear again. While I have no
absolute
> "proof" that any of the 6 or 7 "incarnations" actually are this person,
he did
> accidently post his intentions of making up a whole new persona and
address and again
> sneak back onto Puregold, my goldfish list. Evidently this was meant to
go privately
> to somebody but ended up on another GF list.
>
> http://makeashorterlink.com/?H34532247
> "Well, I will talk at you later and by the way the new person on puregold
is not
> me. I wish I had thought of the name. I will be signing on today
probably
> under name Pathimoho is Osage Language for Pawnee
Tribe.
> Well, I got to run. Talk at you later.
> God Bless and Keep You and Yours,
> Regards from Pawnee America and hope you have a Great "Pop Goes The
Weasel Day
> Tom La Bron"
>
> Since I am quite sure this person is bogus, they too go onto the killfile
list and I
> wont be responding to any more attacks. Ingrid
>
>
>
> (esq.) wrote:
> >Path:
twister.rdc-kc.rr.com!cyclone.kc.rr.com!ngpeer.news.aol.com!au drey-m2.news.a
ol.com!not-for-mail
> >Lines: 12
> >X-Admin:
> >From: (esq.)
> >Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.freshwater.goldfish
> >Date: 31 Jan 2004 16:13:29 GMT
> >References: >
> >Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
> >Subject: Re: aeromonas
> >Message-ID: >
> >Xref: cyclone.kc.rr.com rec.aquaria.freshwater.goldfish:37084
> >
> >
> >>Temperatures at or above 84oF kill the common species of aeromonas that
> >>infect
> >>Goldfish
> >
> >Dr. Noga said; The aeromonas species infecting goldfish survive 84F and
are
> >transferable to humans (98.6F).
> >
> >Ingrid is inferring I made it up, I quoted from Dr. Noga's letter. Ingrid
> >referenced Dr. Noga's book, I contacted Dr. Noga and he responded.
> >The rest of her post is defamation. I suggest Ingrid get the facts and
correct
> >her mistake(s).
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> endorsements or recommendations I make.

[BErney1014]

>Since I am quite sure this person is bogus, they too go onto the killfile
>list and I
>wont be responding to any more attacks. Ingrid

Are you referring to me, Ingrid? I'm a real person, I am not attacking you, I
don't know why you run away from the subject this way. You sound very troubled,
I hope I have not caused you to become upset. Every word I wrote is 100% fact,
sourced from a great deal of time spent in searches. Your information, you said
came from your 3 sources, is not in them if I understand the post by Tom. I am
only trying to help myself. If the treatment you advise is wrong, you are
harming fish, not helping. If the fish have columnaris, you are giving a death
sentence with heat. That is not good medicine.
Best wishes.

[esq.]

snip
>contribution to this list is attacking the advice I give and/or pass along
snip

The comments directed toward me are uncalled for and unwarranted.
Dr. Ingrid is free to make all the mistakes she wants, but don't complain when
they are noticed, correct them and move on.