Do I need co2 in my goldie tank?

[Budbudford]

Hello,

I am debating whether or not to add the homemade co2 (2 liter bottle
yeast mixture) to my 55 and 75 gallon aquariums. I have some amazon
swords in each that really don't do to well. They tend to stay at
around 5 stems or so, and have yellow leaves on the tips often. The
goldfish: ranchu, butterflies, orandas, leave them alone, but how will
my goldfish react to the co2? Does anyone have any experience with the
homemade method?

Thanks,
Ed

[Donald Kerns]

Budbudford wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I am debating whether or not to add the homemade co2 (2 liter bottle
> yeast mixture) to my 55 and 75 gallon aquariums. I have some amazon
> swords in each that really don't do to well. They tend to stay at
> around 5 stems or so, and have yellow leaves on the tips often. The
> goldfish: ranchu, butterflies, orandas, leave them alone, but how will
> my goldfish react to the co2? Does anyone have any experience with the
> homemade method?

It works. Sorta. Marginally.

You want to be careful adding the CO2, because it can/will change the
pH. Take measurements, take it slow. DIY CO2 is less dangerous that way
than injection.

-D
--
"Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving
that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the
proof." -Galbraith's Law

[[email protected]]

absolutely do not add CO2 to the tank. GF need a lot more oxygen than other fish.
if you have great aeration there should be plenty of CO2 in the water. what is the
pH? Ingrid

(Budbudford) wrote:

>Hello,
>
>I am debating whether or not to add the homemade co2 (2 liter bottle
>yeast mixture) to my 55 and 75 gallon aquariums. I have some amazon
>swords in each that really don't do to well. They tend to stay at
>around 5 stems or so, and have yellow leaves on the tips often. The
>goldfish: ranchu, butterflies, orandas, leave them alone, but how will
>my goldfish react to the co2? Does anyone have any experience with the
>homemade method?
>
>Thanks,
>Ed



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[SamB]

The brown tips can also be an indicator of low iron. There are good Fe
supplements worth trying. MTL CO2 not a good thing. Should be a fair
amount coming from 'goldy'.
SamB

"Budbudford" > wrote in message
om...
> Hello,
>
> I am debating whether or not to add the homemade co2 (2 liter bottle
> yeast mixture) to my 55 and 75 gallon aquariums. I have some amazon
> swords in each that really don't do to well. They tend to stay at
> around 5 stems or so, and have yellow leaves on the tips often. The
> goldfish: ranchu, butterflies, orandas, leave them alone, but how will
> my goldfish react to the co2? Does anyone have any experience with the
> homemade method?
>
> Thanks,
> Ed

[Budbudford]

Hi Ingrid,

There is plenty of areation in the tanks. Both have a 24" bubble wands
with a Profile "adjustable level" pump. I do not have the flow on full
because there is a lot of water movement then.

I just want a better way to take care of the plants, and I thought
that by adding co2, it would take care of it. I do add plant additives
every week when water changes are done.

The pH is around 8.2. The water is very hard here. Ammonia 0, Nitrites
0, Nitrates 20ppm.

Thanks,
Ed


wrote in message >...
> absolutely do not add CO2 to the tank. GF need a lot more oxygen than other fish.
> if you have great aeration there should be plenty of CO2 in the water. what is the
> pH? Ingrid

[Kay]

Budbudford wrote:

> Hi Ingrid,
>
> There is plenty of areation in the tanks. Both have a 24" bubble wands
> with a Profile "adjustable level" pump. I do not have the flow on full
> because there is a lot of water movement then.
>
> I just want a better way to take care of the plants, and I thought
> that by adding co2, it would take care of it. I do add plant additives
> every week when water changes are done.
>
> The pH is around 8.2. The water is very hard here. Ammonia 0, Nitrites
> 0, Nitrates 20ppm.
>
> Thanks,
> Ed
>
>
> wrote in message >...
>
>>absolutely do not add CO2 to the tank. GF need a lot more oxygen than other fish.
>>if you have great aeration there should be plenty of CO2 in the water. what is the
>>pH? Ingrid
I have huge amazon swords 18 incehs in height with lots of chutes and
babies and I don't use c02, I just use seachem flourish and seachem
iron, with the right amount of lighting. I have 130 watts compact
florecent over a 55 US gallon tank. Without the CF lights they were dying.
Kay

[Donald Kerns]

wrote:

> absolutely do not add CO2 to the tank. GF need a lot more oxygen than
> other fish.
> if you have great aeration there should be plenty of CO2 in the water.
> what is the pH? Ingrid
>

Common wisdom is that strong aeration drives off CO2. (Particularly if
you are trying to "inject" extra for plants.)

Also that the O2 and CO2 levels are not strongly related.

Can you explain/clarify/amplify your advice?

What seems to be the canonical (usenet) work is Booth's FAQ
http://www.hallman.org/plant/booth1.html

Thanks, (It's been more years since P-Chem than I care to count this
evening)

-Donald

P.S. One of many CO2, KH, pH charts on the web can be found here...
http://www.sfbaaps.com/reference/table_01.shtml
--
"Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving
that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the
proof." -Galbraith's Law

[[email protected]]

you know. GF and nice landscaping are rather mutually exclusive. It can be done,
but it is hard on both the GF and the plants. GF are characters. the fancy ones are
highly individual and unique, while the commons are just plain friendly as all hell.
they interact with people unlike other fish. frankly, mine are more interactive than
my finches or other people's cats. The best tank for them is bare bottom or just a
bit of glass slag for them to push around, plenty of aeration and one or two friends.
Ingrid

(Budbudford) wrote:

>Hi Ingrid,
>
>There is plenty of areation in the tanks. Both have a 24" bubble wands
>with a Profile "adjustable level" pump. I do not have the flow on full
>because there is a lot of water movement then.
>
>I just want a better way to take care of the plants, and I thought
>that by adding co2, it would take care of it. I do add plant additives
>every week when water changes are done.
>
>The pH is around 8.2. The water is very hard here. Ammonia 0, Nitrites
>0, Nitrates 20ppm.
>
>Thanks,
>Ed
>
>
wrote in message >...
>> absolutely do not add CO2 to the tank. GF need a lot more oxygen than other fish.
>> if you have great aeration there should be plenty of CO2 in the water. what is the
>> pH? Ingrid



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Dark Phoenix]

> wrote in message
...
> you know. GF and nice landscaping are rather mutually exclusive. It can
be done,
> but it is hard on both the GF and the plants. GF are characters. the
fancy ones are
> highly individual and unique, while the commons are just plain friendly as
all hell.
> they interact with people unlike other fish. frankly, mine are more
interactive than
> my finches or other people's cats. The best tank for them is bare bottom
or just a
> bit of glass slag for them to push around, plenty of aeration and one or
two friends.
> Ingrid

Better go tell my fish that- the two commons are kind of aloof, while the
two fancies always want to know what my hands are doing in the tank and
nuzzle at them! Course the commons were born in a pond and had nothing to do
with humans til we brought them home.. but they were just tiny little brown
things then... takes all kinds, I guess! :-)

--
Laurie, Dark Phoenix

"Every dog has it's day, but nights are reserved for cats." -

[[email protected]]

I never had pchem.. avoided it like the plague. sorry. Ingrid

Donald Kerns > wrote:

wrote:
>
>> absolutely do not add CO2 to the tank. GF need a lot more oxygen than
>> other fish.
>> if you have great aeration there should be plenty of CO2 in the water.
>> what is the pH? Ingrid
>>
>
>Common wisdom is that strong aeration drives off CO2. (Particularly if
>you are trying to "inject" extra for plants.)
>
>Also that the O2 and CO2 levels are not strongly related.
>
>Can you explain/clarify/amplify your advice?
>
>What seems to be the canonical (usenet) work is Booth's FAQ
>http://www.hallman.org/plant/booth1.html
>
>Thanks, (It's been more years since P-Chem than I care to count this
>evening)
>
>-Donald
>
>P.S. One of many CO2, KH, pH charts on the web can be found here...
>http://www.sfbaaps.com/reference/table_01.shtml



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Jason Henning]

On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 06:49:03 -0800, Donald Kerns
> wrote:

>> I am debating whether or not to add the homemade co2 (2 liter bottle
>> yeast mixture) to my 55 and 75 gallon aquariums. I have some amazon
>> swords in each that really don't do to well. They tend to stay at
>> around 5 stems or so, and have yellow leaves on the tips often. The
>> goldfish: ranchu, butterflies, orandas, leave them alone, but how will
>> my goldfish react to the co2? Does anyone have any experience with the
>> homemade method?
>
>It works. Sorta. Marginally.
>
>You want to be careful adding the CO2, because it can/will change the
>pH. Take measurements, take it slow. DIY CO2 is less dangerous that way
>than injection.

CO2 bubbled through water will produce carbonic acid and that will of
course lower the pH.

Being a homebrewer, I'm very familiar with co2 production. Your
method, while it work, isn't very efficient or consistent. You will
have huge co2 production when sugar is added that will fall off
sharply as the yeast colony builds and uses the sugar up. It's very
difficult to regulate a steady flow of co2 this way with out
monitoring sugar content, warmth, yeast population, ect.

Along with co2, you'll also be producing esters and probably fusel
alcohols along with the regular ethanol. A lot of the esters will be
air borne, the alcohols will fractionally be airborne. You will end
up blowing this stuff in to your tank where much of will be filtered
into the water.

I've tasted the water that I've had fermenter blow off bubbling
through. It's fugging nasty, certainly not something I'd consider for
a fish tank.

-----------

Are you using any aeration now? I got to think that regular atmosphere
contains enough co2 to be able to provide for the plant's co2
requirement. That and what the fish give off. Plants typically don't
respond to enriched co2 environments any better than normal co2
concentrations.

Cheers,
Jason Henning

[Elizabeth Naime]

Regarding CO2, both DIY and fancy injection...

I have never tried this. I have thought about it, because we do have
lots of plants in the tanks, and theoretically you can have lots of CO2
in the water for the plants and still have lots of O2 for the fish.

When reading up on this, I subscribed to a planted-tank mailing list.
Every four to six, it seemed, someone would post that their DIY setup
misbehaved in some way, killing the fish.

I have plants in my tanks for the amusement (and Salad Bar) of the fish;
for me, risking my fish even a little for the sake of the plants just
doesn't add up. For some of the serious plant-tank enthusiasts, whose
fish are there to groom and add visual interest to the plants, it makes
plenty of sense.


-----------------------------------------
Only know that there is no spork.

[[email protected]]

I am not surprised it could kill fish. just because there is O2 in a room doesnt
mean the build up of CO2 doesnt matter .. this is what happens on airplanes when they
dont provide enough fresh air. it is the same thing in the water except CO2
chemically reacts with the water as well as acting like a gas in the water. GF have
much higher needs for oxygen in tanks than other fish. tropical waters are usually
not very high in oxygen since there is a lot of very lush water plants AND at hotter
temps there is just less oxygen in the water anyway. Ingrid

Elizabeth Naime > wrote:

>Regarding CO2, both DIY and fancy injection...
>
>I have never tried this. I have thought about it, because we do have
>lots of plants in the tanks, and theoretically you can have lots of CO2
>in the water for the plants and still have lots of O2 for the fish.
>
>When reading up on this, I subscribed to a planted-tank mailing list.
>Every four to six, it seemed, someone would post that their DIY setup
>misbehaved in some way, killing the fish.
>
>I have plants in my tanks for the amusement (and Salad Bar) of the fish;
>for me, risking my fish even a little for the sake of the plants just
>doesn't add up. For some of the serious plant-tank enthusiasts, whose
>fish are there to groom and add visual interest to the plants, it makes
>plenty of sense.
>
>
>-----------------------------------------
>Only know that there is no spork.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.