Salts

[Babel Fish]

Hi,

Can anyone give me some advice about using salts in coldwater goldfish
tanks? I am keen to avoid any kind of disease and have read advice in
emergencies of adding salts to the water. I just wondered if anyone uses
salts as a norm to keep water disease free. If so, any tips on which to buy
in the UK?

Thanks.

[Kodiak]

Refer to the Goldfish Bible

http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/home.html

snipped from site---> see also S.alt dip, peroxide dip etc...
SALT
MECHANISM OF ACTION:
Fish cells are saltier on the inside than the fresh water outside. When
there is unequal concentrations of salts, the area with higher salts will
lose salt to the area with lower salts. At the same time, water will move
from the area of lower salts into the area of higher salts to dilute the
salts. This is called osmosis. It is the reason that blood on clothes is
removed by soaking in plain water ... it lyses the blood cells and dilutes
the iron out of the cloth.
All animals that live in fresh water have to expend energy to hang onto
their salts AND to keep the fresh water out. Most of the fresh water fish
can no longer deal with "salt water" conditions (altho ocean going salmon
can go back and forth from salt to fresh water).
But adding some salt to the tank water lowers this energy expenditure. Salt
also does one other thing, it stimulates the production of slime. Fish dont
have much in the way of antibody, but they do have a secretory kind that is
added to the slime coat where it reacts with parasites. But having a
continuous production of slime, parasites have a harder time getting to the
skin of the fish and shedding of the slime coat sheds many of the parasites
as well. Normally, healthy fish are resistant to even pathogenic strains of
bacteria. However, fish suffering mechanical damage from handling or
spawning that removes the slime coat and/or opens a wound, those that have a
primary infestation with a parasite that opens the slime coat and punctures
the skin of the fish and when water quality/oxygen levels/temperature are so
poor that the immune system of the fish is dysfunctional or there are
infected fish shedding large numbers of bacteria in the pond can result in
bacterial infection.

What salt dips do:
1. Helps fish that have been shipped recover their electrolytes
2. Strip off the slime coat and chemically knock off a lot of parasites.. it
seems to be more of a shock to parasites than the fish
3. A fish that has been dipped is more susceptible to medications once the
slime coat protectant is gone AND the remaining parasites are exposed to
medications.

What low concentrations of salt does:
1. Provide needed minerals (if solar salt is used)
2. Stimulates slime coat production. Fish have antibodies and other anti
microbial agents which are excreted into the slime coat where they bind to
parasites.
3. Appears to protect fish against nitrite poisoning

CONCENTRATIONS:
Percent (%) is a measure of the number of grams of a chemical per 100 ml of
water. So 0.3% salt solution means there is 0.3 grams of salt per 100 ml of
water.
THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT IS READ ON A SALT METER - please read the
instruction manual that comes with the meter to translate what the METER
says with what the concentration is in percent (%)

A solution of one teaspoon per gallon is 0.132% salt. So 1 tablespoon per 5
gallons is around 0.1%
A LOW concentration is up to 0.1%. This concentration will not hurt most
plants and is what is typically used in ponds and tanks. Addition to fresh
water is done over 3 days.

A MEDIUM concentration is up to 0.5% . Addition from 0.1% up to 0.5%
should be done over a couple of days.

HIGH concentrations are up to 0.9% which is isotonic or the concentration
within the fish. This concentration is used for medical reasons for very
short baths. THIS CONCENTRATION CAN BE DEADLY TO FISH.

mild nitrite protection = 0.1% (3/4 teaspoon per US gallon)
preventive and nitrite protection = 0.3 % (2 1/2 teaspoons/gallon)


What kind of salt
Noga recommends "solar" salt WITHOUT ANTI-CAKING additives. The additive is
sodium ferrocyanide (yellow prussiate of soda) which makes hydrogen cyanide
when exposed to fish. On the topic of salt, p. 295 talks about salt dips
for treatment of ecoparasites, columnaris and bacterial gill disease, and
how salt dips remove the excess mucus making medications more effective
against pathogens. Solar salt can be bought in food stores, in crystal
form, no additives for water softening in big bags for cheap. Rock salt
dissolves slowly. This means it will not flash burn the gills or skin like
adding finely crushed table salt will. Almost all GF books specifically say
no iodine.



--
....Kodiak
"Babel Fish" > wrote in message
...
> Hi,
>
> Can anyone give me some advice about using salts in coldwater goldfish
> tanks? I am keen to avoid any kind of disease and have read advice in
> emergencies of adding salts to the water. I just wondered if anyone uses
> salts as a norm to keep water disease free. If so, any tips on which to
buy
> in the UK?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>

[Vissy Dartae]

"Babel Fish" > wrote in message >...

> Can anyone give me some advice about using salts in coldwater goldfish
> tanks? I am keen to avoid any kind of disease and have read advice in
> emergencies of adding salts to the water. I just wondered if anyone uses
> salts as a norm to keep water disease free. If so, any tips on which to buy
> in the UK?

I don't think it's an insurance policy against disease, but a low
level of salt (up to 0.3%) destroys most ciliated protozoa parasites
like Ich. However for everyday purposes that's a little too salty and
can irritate some goldfish. Some folks salt routinely to 0.1%.
Others on this board will have more advice on this, I'm sure.

The rule is to use pure NaCl with no additives. Table salt often has
additive. Aquarium salt can be purchased at your LFS. Pickling salt
can be purchased at a grocery store, and the stuff I buy has no
additives. Check the label.

[GiveMeABMW]

A LOW concentration is up to 0.1%. This concentration will not hurt most
plants and is what is typically used in ponds and tanks. Addition to fresh
water is done over 3 days. >>>>

Should you keep a 0.1% concentration at all times? If so, how often do you have
to add salt?

[Tom La Bron]

Babel Fish,

First point, Goldfish are not coldwater fish, trout and salmon as coldwater
fish. Goldfish can live in coldwater, but they are classified as Warmwater
fish. Warmwater fish spawn in warm water.

Second point. Concentrate on the three points of good Goldfish health. 1
Clean Water, 2. Clear Water, and last but not least 3. Clean water. Leave
the salt on the table for your fish and chips and keep it out of the water.
I don't use salt. Have never used salt because it is not necessary. No
amount of salt is going to keep away disease if you don't follow the three
points of Goldfish Health.

HTH

Tom L.L.
==============================
"Babel Fish" > wrote in message
...
> Hi,
>
> Can anyone give me some advice about using salts in coldwater goldfish
> tanks? I am keen to avoid any kind of disease and have read advice in
> emergencies of adding salts to the water. I just wondered if anyone uses
> salts as a norm to keep water disease free. If so, any tips on which to
buy
> in the UK?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>

[[email protected]]

GF arent coldwater fish.
at one time salt may have been used as treatment for diseases but it was probably
never very effective, there are so much better things to use now. Salt is most
effective at very low concentrations, 0.05-0.1% as a stimulant to the slime coat.
And as a 3% dip for 30 seconds to a minute to strip off the parasite loaded slime
coat. in between it is just very tricky to use for long periods of time without
damaging the fish.
Jo Ann Burke, the leading Goldfish expert in teh US, maybe in the world recommends
the low salt concentration for disease prevention.
The single most important thing you can do to prevent disease is the use the "closed
tank" principle. Once you have 1 GF per 10 gallons in there, do not add any more.
Do not rearrange the fish, swap from one tank to another. Dont even move the tank
around. And dont use gravel or anything that can hold bacteria on the bottom of the
tank. It may be stress, but even introducing fish from another well quarantined tank
seems to result in loss of the fish already in the tank. And try to get all males.
Females got eggs, become egg bound. Ingrid


"Babel Fish" > wrote:
>Can anyone give me some advice about using salts in coldwater goldfish
>tanks? I am keen to avoid any kind of disease and have read advice in
>emergencies of adding salts to the water. I just wondered if anyone uses
>salts as a norm to keep water disease free. If so, any tips on which to buy
>in the UK?
>
>Thanks.
>
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[[email protected]]

salt between 0.1%- 0.3% is very hard on the fish if left in all the time. and who
knows how well salt works to kill ich since just moving them to fresh water every day
gets rid of the ich in the same time. ich have a cycle. if the fish can survive the
ich outbreak and be moved away from the new ich the fish become immune.
it is even cheaper to use pure crystal solar salt for water softeners. find big bags
come in plastic ... very cheap. Ingrid

>I don't think it's an insurance policy against disease, but a low
>level of salt (up to 0.3%) destroys most ciliated protozoa parasites
>like Ich. However for everyday purposes that's a little too salty and
>can irritate some goldfish. Some folks salt routinely to 0.1%.
>Others on this board will have more advice on this, I'm sure.
>
>The rule is to use pure NaCl with no additives. Table salt often has
>additive. Aquarium salt can be purchased at your LFS. Pickling salt
>can be purchased at a grocery store, and the stuff I buy has no
>additives. Check the label.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[[email protected]]

it is best to keep between 0.05-0.1%, but you can add it, then do water changes for a
while and then check the salt level, add it again. aq pharm has a pond salt test kit
works fine. just be sure to test before adding. Ingrid

(GiveMeABMW) wrote:
>Should you keep a 0.1% concentration at all times? If so, how often do you have
>to add salt?



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.