concerned - goldfish in outdoor pond LONGish

[Nicola B]

Hi all,

First of all may I apologise if the answers to my questions are in the FAQs.
I have been surfing online for an hour now trying to get some information
about how to keep my fish healthy and I only just now found your FAQs. At 7
months pregnant I just don't have the brain power to keep trawling through
yet more information so I am hoping some of you nice people out there can
help me!

I have a pond set up outside my front door in a large pot. I did a lot of
reading up on pot gardens on the internet before doing this and did not
undertake it lightly. I tried to do everything right.
It is 50cm across the inside rim and around 30cm or 40cm deep I think. This
pot faces East-ish and so gets all the morning sun once the sun is up over
the fence, until the sun goes over the roof around noon.

I put an inch or so of river sand in the bottom, and after treating the
water for chlorine and clroamine installed a pot with a miniature water lily
in it, two pots of narrow valsinaria and two pots of rainbow nardoo. Small
shallow pots, but nevertheless you couldn't fit another pot in there without
shuffling things around to make room. These plants had been bought mail
order and smelt a little when I unpacked them, they had been sitting with
bare roots in their damp newspaper packaging, for 6 days before they got to
me.

Then I added a Tablespoon of salt from the pet shop. I left the pot sitting
with plants in it for a week and then tested the ph. It was a little low,
6.8 I think so I treated it with the 'ph up' that came with the test kit and
it came up to 7.0 or 7.2. Being slightly enthusiastic, I then bought two
small regular goldfish thinking I coudl fix the ph gradually over the next
week. Pot was full of mosquito larvae for them to eat.

Well after a couple of days one of the goldfish turned belly up and I had to
flush him. Poor Arthur. I kept testing the ph every few days and adjusting,
and removing dead plant matter from the water in case that was upsetting the
fish. There was a little of that so I trimmed it off. Now I have one
goldfish left but I am worried about her. She is sluggish, does not swim
around much and hides down the sides of the pots a lot. After the reading I
have done today I have some theories:

1. Maybe the pot has too much foliage covering the water surface.
2. Maybe the pot needs a filter. (Do not see how I can do this. No way to
power it, outside.)
3. Maybe I need to change the water. But none of the pre-reading I did
mentioned that part.
4. Maybe she has eaten all the mosquito larva and is hungry. But I have
noticed the valsinaria is looking well picked over, I think she is eating
that.
5. Maybe I should not have bought goldfish, maybe there is a hardier fish I
coudl have bought.
2. Maybe I am confused about ph testing and am 'adjusting' things the wrong
way. Yesterday I noticed the ph seemed alarmingly low (7.0-6.8) and so I
added a large-ish dose of 'ph up'. Then this morning I tested again and it
was firmly down to 6.8 so I added another dose of ph up. BUT now I am
reading a little about ph testing and I am confused. Is a low ph a low
number, because that is what I am assuming. My ph test kit does not say. But
I am now wondering whether a low ph means low in the sense of further down
the scale towards 14. Can someone PLEASE help me out here. I'm not an idiot,
I have a degree. But I do not remember ph info from early high school.

Please help me save my fish!

Thanking you all in advance,
Nicola

[Jon Pike]

"Nicola B" > wrote in
:

> 1. Maybe the pot has too much foliage covering the water surface.

Not likely. If that was anything related to the problem you'd see them
surface breathing, or gulping for air.

> 2. Maybe the pot needs a filter. (Do not see how I can do this. No way
> to power it, outside.)

ALL aquariums need filters. Does your house not have a few outlets
outside? Can you run one from inside the house?

> 3. Maybe I need to change the water. But none of the pre-reading I did
> mentioned that part.

If it's new water, that's probably not the case.

> 4. Maybe she has eaten all the mosquito larva and is hungry. But I
> have noticed the valsinaria is looking well picked over, I think she
> is eating that.

Are you not feeding them fish food?
It -could- be that whatever plants are in there aren't good for fishes,
but I haven't heard of that ever. And I'm not botanist.

> 5. Maybe I should not have bought goldfish, maybe there is a hardier
> fish I coudl have bought.

I don't think there's a hardier fish in existance.

> 2. Maybe I am confused about ph testing and am 'adjusting' things the
> wrong way. Yesterday I noticed the ph seemed alarmingly low (7.0-6.8)

7.0's exactly neutral... so, that's not really alarmingly low. Goldfishes
can also tolerate a reasonably large range of ph.

> and so I added a large-ish dose of 'ph up'. Then this morning I tested
> again and it was firmly down to 6.8 so I added another dose of ph up.
> BUT now I am reading a little about ph testing and I am confused. Is a
> low ph a low number, because that is what I am assuming.

Yes, the lower the ph, the more acidic the water. Basically you've been
adding acid to your fish water :)

> My ph test
> kit does not say. But I am now wondering whether a low ph means low in
> the sense of further down the scale towards 14. Can someone PLEASE
> help me out here. I'm not an idiot, I have a degree. But I do not
> remember ph info from early high school.

You didn't mention any of the three big tests, ammonium, nitrate,
nitrite. Normal tap water is usually in a fine ph range for goldfishes,
so that's not normally as much of a concern.
I also don't know where you're posting from, but you didn't mention the
temperature of your tank at all. For indoors tanks, for goldfish, this
usually isn't an issue either (since they tolerate most any condition
that people put up with indoors, including my 80'f tank room temp for my
lizards(they're tolerating it so well they're breeding)), but for
outdoors tanks it can very much be an issue.

--
http://www.neopets.com/refer.phtml?username=moosespet

[Donald K]

Nicola B wrote:

> Please help me save my fish!
>

[background]
I run a tub garden in 1/2 a wine barrel. No filter, but I do keep a air
stone running in it... It is about 25-30 US gallons.


Step 1) Stop mucking with the pH, it isn't that big a deal for goldfish.
They like a stable ph (within reason say... 6.5 to 8 ish) more than
they like any particular ph.

Honest. Don't worry so much about it.


Step 2) If you have some way of pre-treating the water for
chlorine/chloramine, try changing 50% of the water. (Remove the old
water, put the treated water in.) There are all sorts of things that
could be wrong, from the pond not being mature enough to convert the
fish's wastes to non-toxic chemicals to there being nasty chemicals in
the soil of the plants you've added. Changing the water dilutes all of
that nastyness... This is probably the #1 best thing you can do at the
moment.


You didn't say what sort of goldfish you added. If they were the 6 per
dollar "feeder" goldfish you get at the pet store it isn't too
surprising that one of them died on you...

You didn't say where you lived, so it is hard to tell if they are at a
close to normal temperature. The colder the water, the lower the fish's
metabolism. They stop eating in the mid 50 deg F range.

In general goldfish aren't recommended for small tub gardens. I get away
with it due to the air stone and a general mild climate (and they move
indoors for the winter) Santa Cruz mountains in California...

We need a bit more information to give you more help. Ammonia, Nitrite
and Nitrate levels of the water would be nice. If you take a sample of
the water (20 ml or so) to a local fish store, they will probably do
the test for you. Get the measurements and let us know what they are...

Hang in there, change that water, and get back to us with more
information...

-Donald
--
"A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy
enough people to make it worth the effort." -Herm Albright

[Nicola B]

Hi Donald thanks for the advice. Thanks Jon also for answering.

- OK I will stop mucking with ph. That's a biiiig relief.

- What is an air stone please? I do not have any power outlet on the
outside for a filter.

- I will try changing the water soon. That sounds like a good idea. I will
have to siphon it out. Any other suggestions?

- yes the goldfish are the cheapest sort. Because I knew I did not know
much about keeping fish I did not want to get anything too expensive or
unfamiliar. I thought getting goldfish would be the simplest and easiest
option. But according to your FAQs they are not good fish for beginners...?

- I live in Sydney (answer to your other question) so the fish were only
$3.95... The last two weeks we have had very hot and humid weather. The
first fish (Arthur) died near the beginning of it. It is now calming down
and the next week will be humid but only in the low 20s. Celsius. A big
relief for me!!! But I wonder if the heat has affected the fish? Even though
they don't get much sun in the hottest part of the day? Guenever is by
herself now. I don't want to buy another fish until I know what I am doing
and can fix it. (and I will not jinx the next one by calling him
Lancelot...)

- water chemical levels is something that crossed my mind. I will try to
take a sample to pet shop this week.

Thanks guys for your help so far.

Ciao
Nicola



"Donald K" > wrote in message
...
> Nicola B wrote:
>
> > Please help me save my fish!
> >
>
> [background]
> I run a tub garden in 1/2 a wine barrel. No filter, but I do keep a air
> stone running in it... It is about 25-30 US gallons.
>
>
> Step 1) Stop mucking with the pH, it isn't that big a deal for goldfish.
> They like a stable ph (within reason say... 6.5 to 8 ish) more than
> they like any particular ph.
>
> Honest. Don't worry so much about it.
>
>
> Step 2) If you have some way of pre-treating the water for
> chlorine/chloramine, try changing 50% of the water. (Remove the old
> water, put the treated water in.) There are all sorts of things that
> could be wrong, from the pond not being mature enough to convert the
> fish's wastes to non-toxic chemicals to there being nasty chemicals in
> the soil of the plants you've added. Changing the water dilutes all of
> that nastyness... This is probably the #1 best thing you can do at the
> moment.
>
>
> You didn't say what sort of goldfish you added. If they were the 6 per
> dollar "feeder" goldfish you get at the pet store it isn't too
> surprising that one of them died on you...
>
> You didn't say where you lived, so it is hard to tell if they are at a
> close to normal temperature. The colder the water, the lower the fish's
> metabolism. They stop eating in the mid 50 deg F range.
>
> In general goldfish aren't recommended for small tub gardens. I get away
> with it due to the air stone and a general mild climate (and they move
> indoors for the winter) Santa Cruz mountains in California...
>
> We need a bit more information to give you more help. Ammonia, Nitrite
> and Nitrate levels of the water would be nice. If you take a sample of
> the water (20 ml or so) to a local fish store, they will probably do
> the test for you. Get the measurements and let us know what they are...
>
> Hang in there, change that water, and get back to us with more
> information...
>
> -Donald
> --
> "A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy
> enough people to make it worth the effort." -Herm Albright

[Jon Pike]

"Nicola B" > wrote in
:

> Hi Donald thanks for the advice. Thanks Jon also for answering.
>
> - OK I will stop mucking with ph. That's a biiiig relief.
>
> - What is an air stone please? I do not have any power outlet on the
> outside for a filter.

An air stone hooks up to an air pump, which can be battery operated or
plugged in. I dare say the battery ones go through a -hell- of a lot of
batteries.

> - I will try changing the water soon. That sounds like a good idea. I
> will
> have to siphon it out. Any other suggestions?

Make sure you dechlorinate it before adding it to the 'pond'.

> - yes the goldfish are the cheapest sort. Because I knew I did not
> know
> much about keeping fish I did not want to get anything too expensive
> or unfamiliar. I thought getting goldfish would be the simplest and
> easiest option. But according to your FAQs they are not good fish for
> beginners...?

If they're not good it's only because they're gross disgusting pigs and
they make water dirty really quickly. Other than that, they're great
because they typically survive anything.

> - I live in Sydney (answer to your other question) so the fish were
> only
> $3.95... The last two weeks we have had very hot and humid weather.
> The first fish (Arthur) died near the beginning of it. It is now
> calming down and the next week will be humid but only in the low 20s.
> Celsius.

That's probably why then. You cooked your fishies by having them outside
in such high temps. Goldfishies like 20'c even... if you've been up to
30'c, then you're probably well past their tolerance.

> A big relief for me!!! But I wonder if the heat has affected
> the fish? Even though they don't get much sun in the hottest part of
> the day? Guenever is by herself now. I don't want to buy another fish
> until I know what I am doing and can fix it. (and I will not jinx the
> next one by calling him Lancelot...)

I'd say keep them out of direct sunlight 24/7. If you can, move your pond
into the house to help keep them cooler.

You might also consider getting fishes that like higher temperatures
better. Guppies are pretty damn robust, and will even breed very easily
for you. Have a looksee at some of the tropical freshwaters that are out
there.

> - water chemical levels is something that crossed my mind. I will try
> to
> take a sample to pet shop this week.

Good plan. Make them run -all- the tests on it just so you know where
you're standing. That includes ph, ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, both
hardness tests, and whatever else they might have lying around too.

--
http://www.neopets.com/refer.phtml?username=moosespet

[Azul]

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 16:45:54 +1100, "Nicola B"
> wrote:

>5. Maybe I should not have bought goldfish, maybe there is a hardier fish I
>coudl have bought.

The first summer I moved out to the country, I set up a half wine
barrel pond. I had a goldfish in it. He did well all summer, but I
had a pump running that ran a bird bath fountain. I was getting
ready to move him indoors when a raccoon ate him.

Last year, I decided I did not want goldfish in it, so I got minnows.
I just went to the local bait and tackle store and bought 6 rather
large ones. Needless to say they did really well and laid eggs or all
summer. We had hundreds of the things in there. They really seemed
to do better with the temperature shifts and the hot weather we had
here last summer. I live in the Toronto area of southern Ontario.

Azul

[Donald K]

Nicola B wrote:

> - What is an air stone please? I do not have any power outlet on the
> outside for a filter.

Smallish aquarium airpump attached to a stone/piece of wood/tube that
emits lots of small bubbles in the water. This can add (depending on
the current conditions in the water) additional oxygen and also helps
some "bad stuff" to escape.

Otherwise anything that causes surface movement will help. Small
fountain/waterfall, etc. Rather difficult without power...

Hm, without water surface motion, you're probably going to wind up going
the minnow/guppy/misquito fish route.

> - I will try changing the water soon. That sounds like a good idea. I
> will
> have to siphon it out. Any other suggestions?

Siphon is most likely, I suppose you could bail it out, but a siphon is
what I always use. (BTW the old water is really good for your other
plants...)

> - yes the goldfish are the cheapest sort. Because I knew I did not
> know
> much about keeping fish I did not want to get anything too expensive
> or unfamiliar. I thought getting goldfish would be the simplest and
> easiest option. But according to your FAQs they are not good fish for
> beginners...?

OK, those feeders are kept in absolutely horrid conditions for goldfish.
They are ususally very stressed and potentially ill when you get them.
Some "infant mortality" is expected...

> - I live in Sydney (answer to your other question) so the fish were
> only
> $3.95... The last two weeks we have had very hot and humid weather.
> The first fish (Arthur) died near the beginning of it. It is now
> calming down and the next week will be humid but only in the low 20s.
> Celsius. A big relief for me!!! But I wonder if the heat has affected
> the fish? Even though they don't get much sun in the hottest part of
> the day? Guenever is by herself now. I don't want to buy another fish
> until I know what I am doing and can fix it. (and I will not jinx the
> next one by calling him Lancelot...)

OK, as you've probably read, part of the formula of a tub garden is
surface plants like lillies (sp?) that provide shade and help regulate
the tub's temperature. This works much more effectively in larger
ponds.

As the temperature gets higher, the water holds less oxygen. The fish
will come to the surface and "pant" or seem to be gulping, that is a
sure sign that there isn't enough oxygen in the water. (See air stone
advice above.)

So, I think the first fish probably died from stress due to its raising
as a feeder then being transferred into yet another stressful
environment.

There are so many different things that could be impacting the second
fish, I don't know what to tell you, other than get some clean water in
there and run some tests...

-Donald

--
"A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy
enough people to make it worth the effort." -Herm Albright

[Nicola B]

Hi Donald and Jon -

Today I siphoned off half the water of the pond and siphoned back in water
that had been de-chlorined and salted. Before I had even finished replacing
the water Guenever started swimming around! So there must have been
something evil going on in the water, she is much happier. I will still take
a sample to pet shop for analysis, just to be sure. I also removed one of
the plants, they were getting overgrown, I wonder if she was too crowded in
there? The water surface was about 60% covered with plants before, now it is
more like 40%. Well, also the weather has cooled down a lot, that must be
helping too.

Anyway I will get back to you all when I have water sample results.

Thanks for all your input, I really really really appreciate it. And Guen is
happier now so thankyou again.

Nicola




"Nicola B" > wrote in message
...
> Hi all,
>
<snip>
>
> Please help me save my fish!
>
> Thanking you all in advance,
> Nicola
>
>

[E.Otter]

I'm shocked that no one else has said this yet. From the sounds of your
description (50cm diameter, 40cm deep) this "pot" is only 80L, which is a
good size for 1 goldfish, but I would put this in the category of a fish
tank instead of a fish pond. Like any tank it will go through an initial
biological cycling period. This is very important to your fish's health,
and here some places with good info:
http://faq.thekrib.com/
http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/home.html
You absolutely have to buy some test kits and test for ammonia, nitrites,
and nitrates, and get into the habit of changing the water regularly. This
may be daily to start with and end up being weekly or biweekly, but it has
to be done. You can ignore everything else I write if you want, but don't
ignore that.

So 80L, outdoor tank with plants and 1 goldfish
The good
Its outdoors and has plants, probably no need for an airstone unless its
very warm on a regular basis.

The bad
Small tank can't protect the fish from large changes in temp and no
mechanical filter. Where I live (Northeastern USA) it can go from
sub-freezing temps to t-shirt weather in 24 hours. I've never been to
Australia, but if where you live has the same kind of temperature swings
your pot will need a heater. Some filtration will be done by the plants,
but my gut says you need a regular filter too. Think of it like this, take
a guy who smokes and put him in a small room without any ventilation, then
give him all the cigars and cigarettes his heart desires. Eventually, the
air will be so foul that the guy will just drop dead. Same deal with your
fish. It poops where it swims and breathes. Unless something cleans out
that stuff, it won't be a healthy fish for very long.

I know you've said that you don't have any outdoor eletrical outlets, but I
really think you should invest in a good outdoor eletrical cord to power an
aquarium filter. Plug the power cord someplace in the house, run it through
a slightly cracked window, and your tank filter has got power.

Those are my thoughts,
E.Otter

[Donald K]

E.Otter wrote:

> Some filtration will be done by the plants,
> but my gut says you need a regular filter too.

My tub garden runs 0/0/0. No nitrates at ALL.

No filter either.

Well...
No man-made one. water hyacinth (sp?) is one bitch'n filter. Duckweed
doesn't do too badly either.

You might want to read up on how modern tub gardens are balanced...

-D
--
"A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy
enough people to make it worth the effort." -Herm Albright

[Nicola B]

Went to pet store today with water sample. Nitrites very high, they said
change 1/3 water at least every 2 weeks. And add 'cycle' bacteria to break
down waste. Any thougths on their advice, guys?

Unfortunately water hyacinths are banned in this country.

Our climate is extremely temperate in Sydney, the heat wave we had was
unusual. In winter it does not get very cold, unusual to go below 10 deg.
Celsius.

Also, anyother reflections on E.Otter's suggestion that my pot is only big
enough for one fish? I'm open to that, just thought she might get lonely...


Thanks all

Nicola



"Donald K" > wrote in message
...
> E.Otter wrote:
>
> > Some filtration will be done by the plants,
> > but my gut says you need a regular filter too.
>
> My tub garden runs 0/0/0. No nitrates at ALL.
>
> No filter either.
>
> Well...
> No man-made one. water hyacinth (sp?) is one bitch'n filter. Duckweed
> doesn't do too badly either.
>
> You might want to read up on how modern tub gardens are balanced...
>
> -D
> --
> "A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy
> enough people to make it worth the effort." -Herm Albright

[[email protected]]

get the nitrate kit and change water when nitrates are 20 ppm or higher.
cycle bacteria wont get rid of it. get some oxygenators, plants that are actually in
the water to help with wastes. also, get some cyperus, get the dirt off the roots,
wrap the roots in some polyester batting and jam that down into a pot and put that in
there too. or hook it onto the side of the tub. that will slurp up nutrients. the
more plants in the water, the better. a single airstone in there will also help a
great deal. Ingrid

"Nicola B" > wrote:

>Went to pet store today with water sample. Nitrites very high, they said
>change 1/3 water at least every 2 weeks. And add 'cycle' bacteria to break
>down waste. Any thougths on their advice, guys?
>
>Unfortunately water hyacinths are banned in this country.
>
>Our climate is extremely temperate in Sydney, the heat wave we had was
>unusual. In winter it does not get very cold, unusual to go below 10 deg.
>Celsius.
>
>Also, anyother reflections on E.Otter's suggestion that my pot is only big
>enough for one fish? I'm open to that, just thought she might get lonely...
>
>
>Thanks all
>
>Nicola
>
>
>
>"Donald K" > wrote in message
...
>> E.Otter wrote:
>>
>> > Some filtration will be done by the plants,
>> > but my gut says you need a regular filter too.
>>
>> My tub garden runs 0/0/0. No nitrates at ALL.
>>
>> No filter either.
>>
>> Well...
>> No man-made one. water hyacinth (sp?) is one bitch'n filter. Duckweed
>> doesn't do too badly either.
>>
>> You might want to read up on how modern tub gardens are balanced...
>>
>> -D
>> --
>> "A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy
>> enough people to make it worth the effort." -Herm Albright
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Elizabeth Naime]

Quoth "Nicola B" > on Tue, 24 Feb 2004
22:44:45 +1100,

>Went to pet store today with water sample. Nitrites very high, they said
>change 1/3 water at least every 2 weeks. And add 'cycle' bacteria to break
>down waste. Any thougths on their advice, guys?

I'd change more than once in two weeks... with "very high" nitrites I
might change daily or at least every other day until the nitrites start
coming down. A small amount of salt is usually recommended -- it helps
fish get through the time when you have nitrites in the water.
"Floating" plants may not tolerate salt well, though. If you can't get
water hyacinths, can you get some other "floaters" with lots of dangling
roots? Water lettuce does a fair job, and would probably help filter.

If it freezes at all in the winter, you will need to plan ahead and have
a tank ready to bring the fish inside. Please take newsgroup advice on
this! I lost my then largest, oldest fish at just about the same time
that the fish became pets rather than just decorations, because I didn't
know what I was doing when I moved the outdoor pond fish in for the
winter.

While I'm here, and since you'd like more fish, let me give you my stock
tank lecture. Feed and farm supply stores have a wonderful variety of
really very reasonably priced water tanks for livestock. A plastic one
(galvanized steel ones are not safe for fish when new, though they are
all right when aged) can make a spacious, easy mini-pond. A fifty-gallon
plastic tank (sold for sheep or goat water troughs) would support
several little goldfish or two to three largish ones, some
shallow-water-tolerant lillies, and a host of floating plants whose
roots will serve as your bio-filter. A hundred gallon tank, the most
readily available size, is even better because it's deeper and thus
water shaded by plants keeps a more even temperature. Sure, they look
like... well, like stock tanks. You can put something around it to make
it look more decorative if you like -- move some dirt in around it,
build bricks or stones up, even use timbers to build a surround that you
can sit on while you play with the fishies. Stock tanks are a
wonderfully economical way to get more water, which is more stable and
will support more fish and plants! Just be sure if you go this direction
that you can accomodate the fish in the cold weather. Those of us who
have access to outdoor electricity just put a stock tank heater in 'em.
If your winters are cold enough to put a skim of ice over open water,
but no more than that, you can just make sure that you monitor the pond
and keep a good-sized hole in the ice open at all times. The small tub
is more likely to freeze over and could on those rare colder days freeze
solid; a fifty or hundred gallon tank isn't going to do that unless you
have extended periods of below-freezing weather.

And of course, if you winter fish outdoors, don't feed when the water
temperature goes below 55 F (I hope you're better at conversions than I
am, I can't recall how to convert that to C).




-----------------------------------------
Only know that there is no spork.

[[email protected]]

the other benefit of stock tanks is they are actually pretty well insulated. I have
a 1600 gallon koi pond. there is 1.5 feet (insulated wood stud wall) above the
ground, 2.5 feet below. I cover the pond with plastic like a lean to
http://puregold.aquaria.net/mypond/winters/winter.htm
Normally the temp drops below 55oF around first or second week in october and I quit
feeding the fish. The temp comes up over 55oF around April 15 or so and I start
feeding under the cover. this is around 27 weeks without food.
this winter I ran a 500 watt aquarium heater on one end of the pond with the foot
long airstone on the other and the temp did not drop below 50oF until Jan 15th so I
could feed them all that time. The temp came up over 50oF around Feb 16th and I
started feeding them again. so they went down to the bottom and without food for
only 4 weeks using what is equivalent to 5 regular light bulbs. The winter hardy
lilies never died... they were sending up lily pads all winter long. I never woulda
thought a small aquarium heater would work all winter here in zone 5. you can see
what happens when I didnt have the plastic over the top. the ice was 4-5 inches
thick! I do run a bucket filter in there to keep ammonia down before and after the
veggie filter gets up and running.
So even tho a stock tank is 100% above ground (it doesnt have to be of course),
putting plastic over the top to hold in the heated air AND using an aquarium heater
and airstone it is very likely it will stay open and fine all winter long. I guess
if it was me I would put some bales of hay around it to insulate and the plastic over
that. make it nice and toasty. They really do hold heat well anyway. Ingrid

Elizabeth Naime > wrote:
>While I'm here, and since you'd like more fish, let me give you my stock
>tank lecture.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
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