How much, How Often... A Salt Question

[sjacques614]

I was wondering how much salt I should be putting into my tank. Here are
the specs of what I have set up. I have a 10g tank with a crappy
undergravel filter, and a small power filter; 2 golfish; 1 inch of gravel;
and a few small fake plants.
What I normally have been doing is to add a tablespoon of aquarium salt when
doing a water change, but only about once a month. I do 2 partial change a
week, which means that I only add a tbs of salt for 1 out of 8 changes. Is
this too little.. to much?

Any comments on the benefits of adding salt to freshwater tanks? Has anyone
had any problems with adding salt?

Thanks,

DM

[Freda]

sjacques614 said

> Any comments on the benefits of adding salt to freshwater tanks? Has anyone
> had any problems with adding salt?

Never added it myself - my fish are of the fresh coldwater variety, not
brackish, not marine.

Sure, it can be useful if the fish are sick, but why people add salt to
a healthy tank I just do not understand.

--
Neopets!!! It's Fun, Free and Addictive
www.neopets.com/refer.phtml?username=carolla

[alkad mzu]

sjacques614 wrote:
> I was wondering how much salt I should be putting into my tank. Here are
> the specs of what I have set up. I have a 10g tank with a crappy
> undergravel filter, and a small power filter; 2 golfish; 1 inch of gravel;
> and a few small fake plants.
> What I normally have been doing is to add a tablespoon of aquarium salt when
> doing a water change, but only about once a month. I do 2 partial change a
> week, which means that I only add a tbs of salt for 1 out of 8 changes. Is
> this too little.. to much?
>
> Any comments on the benefits of adding salt to freshwater tanks? Has anyone
> had any problems with adding salt?
>
> Thanks,
>
> DM
>
>
first of all, your fish are probably headed for a grim death.
10 gallons require a minimum of daily water change. get rid of gravel.
undergravel filters are not effective, get the aquaclear 500 it will be
your filter as you upgrade your tank size.
its nearly impossible to maintain stability in 10 gallons. I had a ten
gallon and a petstore starter kit it turns into fish ER.
i got an aquaclear 500 and my problems were held of for a couple of
weeks until i got a 20 gallon which totally solved everything until they
grow out of it.
if you what your fish to thrive and have a budget with limited space i
suggest a:
aquaclear 500
55 gallon tank w/ stand
heater
siphon gravel vacum
a set of air defusers
and a rena 400 airpump
as for the salt question, its the least of your problems.
one teaspoon every 5 gallons at first and since you should be changing
your water everyday it gets complicated ive noticed that salt helps when
the gfs get gas and cant come down from the surface. so i drop some in
when needed

[Freda]

alkad mzu said

> its nearly impossible to maintain stability in 10 gallons. I had a ten
> gallon and a petstore starter kit it turns into fish ER.

It depends on the size of the fish - use surface area rather than volume
to calculate whether a tank is big enough, and then upgrade as you need.

There is certainly no need to put 2 small fish in a big tank.

--
Neopets!!! It's Fun, Free and Addictive
www.neopets.com/refer.phtml?username=carolla

[MartinOsirus]

>I was wondering how much salt I should be putting into my tank.

Try to keep a 0.1% solution of salt. This is 3 teaspoons per 5 gallons. Add
slowly 1 teaspoon/ 5 gal at a time over 3 days - then when you do a water
change - replace the equivalent i.e. if you remove 3 gallons of water - add
approx 1 1/2 teaspoons salt. Don't top off the tank - because the salt remains
and can build up.

[[email protected]]

with the use of air pumps and stones it is no longer necessary to talk about surface
area. air pumps put the oxygen right into the tank. so for most GF the rule is 10
gallons per, altho the big single tails can get over a foot long and need more than
10 gallons. for really large GF, esp. those with flowing fins more than 10 gallons
is recommended. Ingrid

Freda > wrote:
>It depends on the size of the fish - use surface area rather than volume
>to calculate whether a tank is big enough, and then upgrade as you need.
>
>There is certainly no need to put 2 small fish in a big tank.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[[email protected]]

http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/disease/treatment/trtmnt.htm#salt
get a salt test kit, like the one for ponds by aquar. pharm. For all you know you
got a significant level of salt in your tap water. this is especially true if you
live on a coast.
get rid of the gravel, get big filter.
change water often enough to keep the nitrates less than 20 ppm.
Ingrid

"sjacques614" > wrote:

>I was wondering how much salt I should be putting into my tank. Here are
>the specs of what I have set up. I have a 10g tank with a crappy
>undergravel filter, and a small power filter; 2 golfish; 1 inch of gravel;
>and a few small fake plants.
>What I normally have been doing is to add a tablespoon of aquarium salt when
>doing a water change, but only about once a month. I do 2 partial change a
>week, which means that I only add a tbs of salt for 1 out of 8 changes. Is
>this too little.. to much?
>
>Any comments on the benefits of adding salt to freshwater tanks? Has anyone
>had any problems with adding salt?
>
>Thanks,
>
>DM
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[alkad mzu]

Freda wrote:
> alkad mzu said
>
>
>>its nearly impossible to maintain stability in 10 gallons. I had a ten
>>gallon and a petstore starter kit it turns into fish ER.
>
>
> It depends on the size of the fish - use surface area rather than volume
> to calculate whether a tank is big enough, and then upgrade as you need.
>
> There is certainly no need to put 2 small fish in a big tank.
>
there is no immediate need to put small fish in big tank but what about
other things that make having gfs worthwhile like plants, rocks, and
maybe even gravel, in fact, having goldfish period is not needed its a
hobby which involves taking a certain pleasure in part-taking in a
goldfish' quality of life. if you are interested in the survival rate
given an less than adequate living condition
then what the hell. but i found that dealing with things as they come
is more expensive than to over do it which cant hurt.
I've seen 55 gallon tanks w/stands for as cheap as 89bucks at petland.
if i would of known this i wouldnt have strted with a ten gallon.
i hate to get all huffy and puffy being that i started with four
goldfish and a ten gallon with only popular misconception about goldfish,
but the two remaining survived my stupidity and deserve to flourish.

[sjacques614]

> wrote:

> get a salt test kit, like the one for ponds by aquar. pharm. For all you
know you
> got a significant level of salt in your tap water. this is especially
true if you
> live on a coast.
> get rid of the gravel, get big filter.
> change water often enough to keep the nitrates less than 20 ppm.
> Ingrid


Thanks Ingrid,
I'll get that kit. Right now I have little to no nitrates in my water. I
try to check them often. I've found that the 2 partial changes a week is
more than enough. I believe the biological filter is strong enough to
handle things right now, in combo with the power filter. I am looking into
getting a better filter though, and will probably upgrade to a 20-30 gallon
tank soon. But, at the moment the fish are doing awsome, very active,
eating well, no signs of illness. They are still pretty small, only about 3
inchs, but growing.

But, what is the deal with having no gravel. I hear that a lot, but don't
understand the resoning behind it. I have a gravel syphon that I use with
each water change, so the gravel is clean. Do the goldfish not like gravel?
It would seem to me that this would simulate there natural environment? Is
it not important to give them something to rummage (sp) around in. They
seem to like it, but I havn't ask them yet ;-)

DM

[sjacques614]

"alkad mzu" > wrote:

> first of all, your fish are probably headed for a grim death.
> 10 gallons require a minimum of daily water change. get rid of gravel.
> undergravel filters are not effective, get the aquaclear 500 it will be
> your filter as you upgrade your tank size.
> its nearly impossible to maintain stability in 10 gallons. I had a ten
> gallon and a petstore starter kit it turns into fish ER.
> i got an aquaclear 500 and my problems were held of for a couple of
> weeks until i got a 20 gallon which totally solved everything until they
> grow out of it.

Well, I'm not as much of a pessimist as yourself, but I guess I understand
my situtation and my fish better than you. But, to take your advice I might
up the water changes to every other day. I've found that 10g isn't the
death-trap that it's been labelled, so long as the bio-filter is set-up, the
power filter is running smoothly, with the addition of consistant water
changes. But, at the same time, my fish are still fairly small, only about
3 inchs, so I think I'll be able to hold off for a little while longer. At
the moment I've had my tank set up for a little over a year, and things are
going fine. I had only one fish in the tank for about 10 months (Costello),
then purchased a friend (Elvis) about 3-4 months ago, and things are going
great right now.

> as for the salt question, its the least of your problems.
> one teaspoon every 5 gallons at first and since you should be changing
> your water everyday it gets complicated ive noticed that salt helps when
> the gfs get gas and cant come down from the surface. so i drop some in
> when needed

Thanks for that tip. I've been having that problem too, but I didn't
realize that the floating could be caused by gas, although in hind-sight it
seems obvious. I was looking at it as a constipation problem, and would
feed them cut up peas to help aid their digestion. I've also started
soaking the pellets before putting them in the tank. How often do you find
yourself adding salt?

DM

[Geezer From Freezer]

10 gallons is ok for 2 really small fish, the trouble is, they will never grow
to
optimum size, stunting their size and lifespan, if they remain in a tank
of that size. I'd say 2 x 3inch goldfish definitely need a bigger tank.

[Geezer From Freezer]

Goldfish love gravel, doesn't mean its good for them. I love burgers and kebabs
but it
aint no good for me.

Gravel gets very messy, especially underneath. It can house toxins and
parasites. Goldfish can
also choke on it. With a bare bottom, your tank will stay cleaner and fish will
be able to find,
what would normally be trapped, food easier. It also makes your maintenance much
easier.

[[email protected]]

if you have little to no nitrates, get a new test. realize I said nitrates, not
nitrites. a cycled tank doesnt have nitrites.
summary of why not gravel
http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/care/care1.htm#GRAVEL
natural for GF is mud. that is where they live in the wild. Ingrid

"sjacques614" > wrote:
>I'll get that kit. Right now I have little to no nitrates in my water. I
>try to check them often. I've found that the 2 partial changes a week is
>more than enough. I believe the biological filter is strong enough to
>handle things right now, in combo with the power filter. I am looking into
>getting a better filter though, and will probably upgrade to a 20-30 gallon
>tank soon. But, at the moment the fish are doing awsome, very active,
>eating well, no signs of illness. They are still pretty small, only about 3
>inchs, but growing.
>
>But, what is the deal with having no gravel. I hear that a lot, but don't
>understand the resoning behind it. I have a gravel syphon that I use with
>each water change, so the gravel is clean. Do the goldfish not like gravel?
>It would seem to me that this would simulate there natural environment? Is
>it not important to give them something to rummage (sp) around in. They
>seem to like it, but I havn't ask them yet ;-)
>
>DM
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[[email protected]]

you are doing everything needed to keep the fish healthy in the 10 and are to be
congratulated. if you are like us, you are also developing a personal relationship
with them and you are beginning to realize they come to you when you show up rather
than run and hide like tropical ninnies. GF are real pets, real characters.
we also dont want you to suffer losing them. and a 10 gallon is just plain unstable.
we are thinking more along the lines of what if the electricity goes out, the
filtration goes out, the aeration goes out..... the temp drops or heats up and then
what? I am glad you are looking. also look for a battery backup like for computers
to run your airstone. and if you under stock you should have no problem with wastes
if the electricity goes out. now if you are in earthquake country, well I will let
those people explain safety procedures for that case. Ingrid

"sjacques614" > wrote:
> I've found that 10g isn't the
>death-trap that it's been labelled, so long as the bio-filter is set-up, the
>power filter is running smoothly, with the addition of consistant water
>changes.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[MartinOsirus]

> if you are like us, you are also developing a personal relationship
>with them and you are beginning to realize they come to you when you show up
>rather
>than run and hide like tropical ninnies.
> GF are real pets, real characters.

Ha - I agree with that but I notice my tropicals also come over when I come
near the tank! - But- there is nothing quite like these GF characters!

[alkad mzu]

sjacques614 wrote:
> "alkad mzu" > wrote:
>
>
>>first of all, your fish are probably headed for a grim death.
>>10 gallons require a minimum of daily water change. get rid of gravel.
>>undergravel filters are not effective, get the aquaclear 500 it will be
>>your filter as you upgrade your tank size.
>>its nearly impossible to maintain stability in 10 gallons. I had a ten
>>gallon and a petstore starter kit it turns into fish ER.
>>i got an aquaclear 500 and my problems were held of for a couple of
>>weeks until i got a 20 gallon which totally solved everything until they
>>grow out of it.
>
>
> Well, I'm not as much of a pessimist as yourself, but I guess I understand
> my situtation and my fish better than you. But, to take your advice I might
> up the water changes to every other day. I've found that 10g isn't the
> death-trap that it's been labelled, so long as the bio-filter is set-up, the
> power filter is running smoothly, with the addition of consistant water
> changes. But, at the same time, my fish are still fairly small, only about
> 3 inchs, so I think I'll be able to hold off for a little while longer. At
> the moment I've had my tank set up for a little over a year, and things are
> going fine. I had only one fish in the tank for about 10 months (Costello),
> then purchased a friend (Elvis) about 3-4 months ago, and things are going
> great right now.
>
>
>>as for the salt question, its the least of your problems.
>>one teaspoon every 5 gallons at first and since you should be changing
>>your water everyday it gets complicated ive noticed that salt helps when
>>the gfs get gas and cant come down from the surface. so i drop some in
>>when needed
>
>
> Thanks for that tip. I've been having that problem too, but I didn't
> realize that the floating could be caused by gas, although in hind-sight it
> seems obvious. I was looking at it as a constipation problem, and would
> feed them cut up peas to help aid their digestion. I've also started
> soaking the pellets before putting them in the tank. How often do you find
> yourself adding salt?
>
> DM
>
>
thanks for being patient i didnt mean to come off so negative.
I have one oranda that just cant eat food unless its been sitting
in a cup of the tanks water for at least 5 minutes, and pet store
spirulina does such a bad number on her/him. and even sometimes
despite the food soaking it still floats after feeding.
when it floats i put it in an 8 ounce party cup with a tea spoon
of aquarium salt for a about 1-2 minutes then pour it back in
the tank,salted water and all. the reason i keep it in the cup first is
because the other gf is strong and healthy and does not need the salt.
i pour it back with the salt confiding that the other gf will not be
upset by it, and i do a partial water change hen the fish gets better.
regular salting can make the goldies sluggish. supermarket frozen green
peas finish the job off
I thaw them by placing the peas in the fish net and letting them soak
for a few minutes. you can cut a tiny hole in the pea skin and squeeze
it til the insides just fall right into the tank.
and i regularly roll a lettuce leaf into the air tube-holder
part of a suction cup and stick it on the floor of the tank and they
both love it. I do wash the lettuce thoroughly before doing this.
as far as how often i find my self doing this, about an average of twice
a week. i cant help it im weak and give in to temptation and overfeed
them from time to time. have you ever noticed your fish crapping bubbles
encased in sausage lining? thats either gas or constipation. ingrid,
having alot more experience and a higher level of education can probably
give a a break down of what exactly it is. to the best of my knowledge
floating is due to air bubbles in the intestines and your probably right ,
it can be the one of the things that constipate.

[Donald K]

wrote:

> now if you are in earthquake country, well I will let
> those people explain safety procedures for that case.

Um, I'll bite...

1) make sure you have a good solid base, not just a glue and particle
board special.

2) make sure said base is strapped or bolted to the wall. Some even
strap the tank itself... my wife won't buy into that however...

3) make sure nothing in the room is damageable by the roughly 1/4 to 1/2
of the water that is going to come sloshing out in a big quake no
matter what else you do...

4) make you you or a family member know first aid/CPR and have a three
day emergency kit available.

5) if we get to number 5, the fish are on their own... as I fully expect
to lose the part of the house that the fish are in if the quake is THAT
big...

-D
--
"A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy
enough people to make it worth the effort." -Herm Albright

[Ami .]

<<<i hate to get all huffy and puffy being that i started with four
goldfish and a ten gallon with only popular misconception about
goldfish, but the two remaining survived my stupidity and deserve to
flourish.>>>

I had two tiny marble-sized pearlscale goldfish in a 5-gallon tank for
months. I changed their water each and every day before going to work.

After more than 6 months of this, I decided that they deserved a better
home. My two lovely pearlies are now in a 15-gallon tank with two
filters, a heater, and a bubble disc. They are happy as clams and I
enjoy watching them playing by riding the bubble disc bubbles from the
bottom to the top of the tank:)

And they are no longer tiny. One of them is as big and round as a golf
ball, and the other is huge. He looks like a baseball with fins..LOL!

[Ami .]

<<Gravel gets very messy, especially underneath. It can house toxins and
parasites. Goldfish can also choke on it.>>>

The gravel I use is too big to fit in the mouths of my goldfish. It's
called "river rocks." The individual rocks vary in size, with the
biggest ones being about dime-sized. I would never use the tiny pebbles
that I've seen in some tanks. I'd be too afraid of the potential for
choking.

As for cleaning, I purchased a PennPlax air vac for $7.99 at a LFS. It
works very well. You just connect it to one of your aquarium air line
hoses and the air pressure sucks up the gunk from the gravel.

[alkad mzu]

Ami . wrote:
> <<Gravel gets very messy, especially underneath. It can house toxins and
> parasites. Goldfish can also choke on it.>>>
>
> The gravel I use is too big to fit in the mouths of my goldfish. It's
> called "river rocks." The individual rocks vary in size, with the
> biggest ones being about dime-sized. I would never use the tiny pebbles
> that I've seen in some tanks. I'd be too afraid of the potential for
> choking.
>
> As for cleaning, I purchased a PennPlax air vac for $7.99 at a LFS. It
> works very well. You just connect it to one of your aquarium air line
> hoses and the air pressure sucks up the gunk from the gravel.
>
gravel also takes up space that can otherwise be for the fish.
i cant remember what tank size you have.

[dz]

Gold fish needs gravel as toys.

> Gravel gets very messy, especially underneath. It can house toxins and
> parasites. Goldfish can
> also choke on it. With a bare bottom, your tank will stay cleaner and fish
will
> be able to find,
> what would normally be trapped, food easier. It also makes your
maintenance much
> easier.

[Donald K]

dz wrote:

> Gold fish needs gravel as toys.
>

What is your definition of "need"?

My goldies grow just fine with a bare bottomed tank.

-D
--
"A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy
enough people to make it worth the effort." -Herm Albright

[GiveMeABMW]

> Gold fish needs gravel as toys.
>

What is your definition of "need"?

My goldies grow just fine with a bare bottomed tank.>>>

Mine are also fine with a bare bottom tank - they seem to really enjoy playing
in the bubbles from my air disks, however.

[Elizabeth Naime]

Rather than changing the water daily or every other day, may I suggest
(and I hope you are already doing this) that you test the water daily or
eod. If you are consistently seeing 0 ammonia, 0 nitrItes, stable pH,
and <20ppm nitrAtes, then your tank is wonderfully stable and your
little fishies will be just fine.

I would say that it's never too soon to shop for a bigger tank. With two
fish in ten gallons, at some point you will see stress on the sytstem --
filter not keeping up, fish looking poorly, pH dropping too rapidly.
This is not a good time to go emergency-shopping for a bigger tank.
You'll be better to be prepared with a 20 (or may I suggest a slightly
more spacious 29, or a nice roomy 50 or 55? The latter would allow you
to add another fish or two when the urge strikes!) which you plan to
move the fish into before there is trouble -- but which will be ready on
short notice if your small tank stops keeping up, on short notice.

I really wouldn't bother with salt in a healthy tank. A small amount of
salt (what you're using now is fine) can protect fish through a nitrIte
spike -- I know everyone will say "but your nitrites should be zero" and
yes they should, but what if they aren't? In the short term, while you
are addressing whatever caused the spike, salt can save fish. A little
more salt than you're using now is very helpful in treating many fish
parasites, and some people reckon a little bit of salt can't hurt and
may help fish who are "doing poorly" but can't be diagnosed with
anything specific. I keep salt handy (I use pickling and canning salt,
which is pure un-iodized NaCl with nothing added to prevent caking) and
it's the first response when things go even a little wrong, but I don't
break it out unless something is a little wrong.


-----------------------------------------
Only know that there is no spork.

[[email protected]]

actually a small amount wont protect and that isnt the reason for low salt in the
tank. it is to stimulate the slime coat to turn over. the slime coat as it is
formed contains antibodies and anti-microbial proteins that fight disease. low salt
also helps with electrolyte balance. it has nothing to do with nitrite toxicity nor
treating for parasites. I just dont think salt is very good as a treatment for any
disease. Ingrid

Elizabeth Naime > wrote:
>I really wouldn't bother with salt in a healthy tank. A small amount of
>salt (what you're using now is fine) can protect fish through a nitrIte
>spike -


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.