"soup" wrote in message
.uk...

Have googled for aquarium cycling and there seems
to be 301,000 different opinions on how to do it.
A straw poll, how many believe in the chemical
approach and how many in hardy fish and does
anyone have a method involving black cats and
ouija boards :) ?.

As I understand it "cycling" is too get the level
of good bacteria up so they can "eat" fish waste
and convert it into nitrites then convert these
nitrites to nitrates.
--



I use no chemicals and no fish. Just a little liquid ammonia in place of
the ammonia produced by fish. Best method imo. Works great with no stress
to any fish at all. Once it is cycled I can stock it completely.

--

Margolis
http://web.archive.org/web/200302152...qs/AGQ2FAQ.htm
http://www.unrealtower.org/faq

soup wrote:
Have googled for aquarium cycling and there seems
to be 301,000 different opinions on how to do it.
A straw poll, how many believe in the chemical
approach and how many in hardy fish and does
anyone have a method involving black cats and
ouija boards :) ?.

As I understand it "cycling" is too get the level
of good bacteria up so they can "eat" fish waste
and convert it into nitrites then convert these
nitrites to nitrates.

Another method for planted tanks.
My LFS keeps cichlid babies and a few other fish in their plant tank
system. This means that the plants have small colonies of nitrifying
bacteria on their leaves. (Yep - plants support the bacteria like every
other solid surface in a tank.)

So, I completely plant my tank at the start. For me, that's usually
well over half of the substrate planted. Then add a super-light load of
fish. Between the plants themselves and the bacterial colonies on the
plants I don't usually see any ammonia or nitrite. In a couple of
weeks, if all tests well, add a couple more fish and let the bacteria
grow and adapt. If you keep adding slowly, even a new tank will never
"cycle."

I just did this with my 2 gallon betta tank. Even in only 2 gallons of
water, I've been able to establish an UGF without a bit of ammonia. And
a betta in 2 gallons of water isn't what I call a "light" fish load.

There is one risk - all the fish on the plant system you buy must be
healthy. The plants can carry ich and other diseases into your tank,
just like a new fish. Also, a snail dip will kill the nitrifying
bacteria too, so you must inspect the plants carefully and remove snails
by hand.

Oh - and if a black cat crosses your path on the way home from the fish
store, you must hold a session with a Ouija board that evening or it
won't work. ;-)

--
__ Elaine T __
__' http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__

Mario wrote:
Despite some pretty intesive searching, I cannot seem to find any
guidelines (and I'm not even looking for anything *definitive*), on
what constitutes "too high".

I'm about 10 days into a new 20-gal tank with 3 zebra danios. In
addition to keeping an eye on fish behavior, I monitor the pH and
nitrogen levels just about every day. NH3 levels are starting to rise
(still 1ppm) and NO2 is zero.

What NH3 value is considered "too high" where I should perform a water
change?

How about for NO2 (nitrates)?

Thanks in advance,

Mario

Problem is, the toxicity of ammonia is changed by the pH so there is no
single answer. Fish tolerate NH3 much better than NH4+. And different
fish can tolerate different levels of ammonia. I generally start to
worry above 1 ppm in a pH 7 tank. However, there is no need to expose
your fish to ammonia. I would strongly recommend using AmQuel while
your tank cycles. http://www.novalek.com/korgd28.htm AmQuel makes the
ammonia non-toxic to fish but it can still be used by the bacteria.
Note that you will get weird readings on typical FW ammonia kits once
you have added the AmQuel.

For nitrite, I don't like to see it above 2 ppm, so that's where I start
thinking about a water change. Change too much water though, and you'll
prolong the cycle. Also watch your fish closely. If they start getting
lethergic and gilling hard, they are experiencing nitrite toxicity.

--
__ Elaine T __
__' http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__

Do you know anyone with a active tank? Borrow some used filter material,
near instant cycle
Bob
"soup" wrote in message
.uk...

Have googled for aquarium cycling and there seems
to be 301,000 different opinions on how to do it.
A straw poll, how many believe in the chemical
approach and how many in hardy fish and does
anyone have a method involving black cats and
ouija boards :) ?.

As I understand it "cycling" is too get the level
of good bacteria up so they can "eat" fish waste
and convert it into nitrites then convert these
nitrites to nitrates.
--
yours S

Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione

I use Nutrafin Cycle, to add good bacteria to my tank. I bump the temperature up to 28 Celsius and add a touch off fish food. This kick starts the cycle process. I've found the advantages of a fishless cycle are. I don't get stuck with fish I don't really like e.g "hardy fish" and no matter how hardy they still suffer from stress during the cycling period. I've managed to cycle a 50g tank in 4 weeks using my method.

TheWizardHunter

Don't waste the money on the Nutrafin cycle and it will cycle in 3-4 weeks
;op

That stuff is just snake oil

--

Margolis
http://web.archive.org/web/200302152...qs/AGQ2FAQ.htm
http://www.unrealtower.org/faq

"Elaine T" wrote in message
m...
Mario wrote:
Despite some pretty intesive searching, I cannot seem to find any
guidelines (and I'm not even looking for anything *definitive*), on
what constitutes "too high".

I'm about 10 days into a new 20-gal tank with 3 zebra danios. In
addition to keeping an eye on fish behavior, I monitor the pH and
nitrogen levels just about every day. NH3 levels are starting to rise
(still 1ppm) and NO2 is zero.

What NH3 value is considered "too high" where I should perform a water
change?

How about for NO2 (nitrates)?

Thanks in advance,

Mario

Problem is, the toxicity of ammonia is changed by the pH so there is no
single answer. Fish tolerate NH3 much better than NH4+.

Just a typo. I think you had that reversed, as NH4 (ammonium at low pH)
is not toxic and NH3 (ammonia at high pH) is very toxic.
--
www.NetMax.tk

And different
fish can tolerate different levels of ammonia. I generally start to
worry above 1 ppm in a pH 7 tank. However, there is no need to expose
your fish to ammonia. I would strongly recommend using AmQuel while
your tank cycles. http://www.novalek.com/korgd28.htm AmQuel makes the
ammonia non-toxic to fish but it can still be used by the bacteria.
Note that you will get weird readings on typical FW ammonia kits once
you have added the AmQuel.

For nitrite, I don't like to see it above 2 ppm, so that's where I
start thinking about a water change. Change too much water though, and
you'll prolong the cycle. Also watch your fish closely. If they start
getting lethergic and gilling hard, they are experiencing nitrite
toxicity.

--
__ Elaine T __
__' http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__

NetMax wrote:
"Elaine T" wrote in message
m...

Mario wrote:

Despite some pretty intesive searching, I cannot seem to find any
guidelines (and I'm not even looking for anything *definitive*), on
what constitutes "too high".

I'm about 10 days into a new 20-gal tank with 3 zebra danios. In
addition to keeping an eye on fish behavior, I monitor the pH and
nitrogen levels just about every day. NH3 levels are starting to rise
(still 1ppm) and NO2 is zero.

What NH3 value is considered "too high" where I should perform a water
change?

How about for NO2 (nitrates)?

Thanks in advance,

Mario


Problem is, the toxicity of ammonia is changed by the pH so there is no
single answer. Fish tolerate NH3 much better than NH4+.


Just a typo. I think you had that reversed, as NH4 (ammonium at low pH)
is not toxic and NH3 (ammonia at high pH) is very toxic.

D'oh! Thanks so much for the fix!

--
__ Elaine T __
__' http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__