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Overdriving NO Tubes
P(in watts) = I(amps) * E(volts)
P -------- I * E Light is measured in lumens, watts is a measure of power consumed. It gets real tricky though if you try to convert any of these measurements to BTU's (British Thermal Units) JOhn :-) "Mort" wrote in message y.com... Well, I admit I do not know this man very well, but he claims that someone he knows has a device that measures the light output and he said that fixture "was clocked at 130watts" So anyway... Naturally I have questions about this and that is why I am here ;) ~Mort |
Overdriving NO Tubes
Well, I admit I do not know this man very well, but he claims that someone
he knows has a device that measures the light output and he said that fixture "was clocked at 130watts" Yeah well according to my clock - it's time to get the shovel out :) IME, overdriving NO tubes does increase intensity but it also causes a severe spectrum shift. I tried it a year or two ago - I started with Phillips 6500k bulbs from Home Depot, I used PFO electronic VHO ballasts to overdrive them. The output was much brighter than normal but the color was nearly green. I didn't wait around long enough to see what the lifespan of the bulbs would eventually be. Needless to say I put my URI bulbs back in. I think King Marc & I gabbed about this a little while back, his experiences were a little different though. It could have been he was using a different ballast - can't remember (gettin' old ;) James |
Overdriving NO Tubes
Pszemol wrote: I do not understand the reasoning here... If you have to change bulbs every 6 months in their nominal working conditions, and overdriving is shortening their life significantly, then when you overdrive you need to replace them much more often to prevent color shifting and algae blums. What am I missing in this picture? You are missing the dollar signs. When I had 3 VHO bulbs on my tank, each one cost me $25 or more. By replacing the one Daylight VHO with a Daylight NO, I saved $20 every 6 months, or $40 a year. Marc -- Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com |
Overdriving NO Tubes
Pszemol, why do your responses seem so aggressive? We're all friends here, as far as I
know. Read on.... Pszemol wrote: Just as often? You mean how often? VHO have to be replaced every 6 months. Who has proven that? Have you measured light spectrum of that overdriven tube? How do you know when to change it? I have not measured the spectrum. I know to replace my bulbs systematically every 6 months. You pay $4.50 for a tube which gives really unknown spectrum. Not true. The packaging specifically states 6500K - Philips or Sylvania. Look for yourself. Most likely with cheap phosphors giving only what is needed to light the office space... These are not office lighting fluorescents. Those come by the case, or individually. These 6500K only come individually wrapped in a green or blue covering. Manufacturer of these tubes do not care about the spectrum and what waves of light does the tube really emit and how does it change over time... Really? So they make stuff up? Does Ushio do the same? Who tells the truth and who lies? You will replace it normally when it stops working or starts flickering with red glow at the end :-) Nobody cares of the colors spectrum over their desks in the office or shop. We replace them on schedule. And every time I've done it, the bulb still "looked" fine but I knew it was done. If you were to replace two tubes twice a year, $30 each it would be $120. Are the savings worth playing over a year? Yes, the savings is worth it, and numerous folks are doing this successfully. And you do not know what you really get while saving money this way... You risk producing wrong light spectrum and promoting algae grow. I've had no algae issues, as you know from reading my posts here daily. The spectrum change mostly, not the intensity decrease is the reason behind the recommendation for changing tubes every 6 months... Exactly. We don't replace them because they die. We do because the spectrum has been used up and will shift soon. Full blown reef in four-footer for $400 ? You must be kidding me... Lighting? Yes, $400 or more. I remember a nice lady in our group that paid well over $600 for her MH setup. But there are ways to find it for less, and many do. I've watched one vendor on Ebay for a year but never bought the setup offered daily. I ended up buying mine from a guy on Reef Central, and am delighted to see them finally installed on my 4' reef. If you are concerned with long-term savings the MH are the way to go for you. Hmmm. Go to any Home Depot and take a closer look at the fluorescent balasts shelf. You will find "replacement balasts" for many different types of tubes... They mostly come with installation instructions in the box to tell you wiring or if they require grounded metal reflector to work with the tube starting or not, etc... But I would rather not do this for a display tank. Macroalgae refugium? maybe... but not the display tank with corals. Or buy an IceCap ballast designed for VHO or MH setups. They contain the wiring diagram as well. The ballasts at Home Depot support Mercury Vapor, and NO lighting. If there was one for VHO or T5's, you can bet it would have been posted to death on RC and here. Marc -- Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com |
Overdriving NO Tubes
Richard Reynolds wrote: now I am jumping in here but I thought that was refering to cheaper bulbs being overdriven are you sure they still last 6 months ?? Yep, the work just fine for 6 months. I never got a sudden algae outbreak, and when I switched to a new set the tank did not react with a bloom as I was expecting. it states 6500K but is that the only spectrum peak or just the strongest, or even worse the chosen one of 2 or 3 ive seen the bulb and its sparked some interest, but not much for me now:) It states 6500K. That is the color spectrum of that bulb. made up, probibly not, but you have to know by now that many makers twist data to make there items look better than the next guy Yes, but some things can't be fudged. They can't say this bulb reduces algae or anything. They state what color to expect. I think that would be a reasonably honest thing to do. didnt you just switch to MH bulbs on one of your tanks ??? Yep, 2 x 175w 10,000K with two 110w URI actinic VHO bulbs. No more cheap daylight bulbs for me now. :( Marc -- Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com |
Overdriving NO Tubes
"IME, overdriving NO tubes does increase intensity but it also causes a severe
spectrum shift." Yes it does Jim and it also greatly increases internal bulb pressure. Increasing bulb pressure alone increases output, as the argon gas pressure increases, due to added heat and overdrive -- Boomer Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php Want to See More ? Please Join Our Growing Membership www.coralrealm.com If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up "Acrylics" wrote in message ... : Well, I admit I do not know this man very well, but he claims that someone : he knows has a device that measures the light output and he said that : fixture "was clocked at 130watts" : : Yeah well according to my clock - it's time to get the shovel out :) : IME, overdriving NO tubes does increase intensity but it also causes a severe : spectrum shift. : I tried it a year or two ago - I started with Phillips 6500k bulbs from Home : Depot, I used PFO electronic VHO ballasts to overdrive them. The output was : much brighter than normal but the color was nearly green. I didn't wait around : long enough to see what the lifespan of the bulbs would eventually be. : Needless to say I put my URI bulbs back in. I think King Marc & I gabbed about : this a little while back, his experiences were a little different though. It : could have been he was using a different ballast - can't remember (gettin' old : ;) : : James |
Overdriving NO Tubes
meaning Fluro's are filled with Argon gas, the purpose for it in these bulbs is to become
heated and increase the gas pressure. Gas pressure = more lumens / watt.. In MH, MV, HPS and LPS it is used for the same thing, but some of it also get ionized and adds to the light spectrum, so it is a duel purpose in these bulbs. And to much pressure can make the bulbs go Kaboom, such as screwing a 175 watt into a 250 and a 400 for sure. -- Boomer Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php Want to See More ? Please Join Our Growing Membership www.coralrealm.com If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up "Boomer" wrote in message ... : "IME, overdriving NO tubes does increase intensity but it also causes a severe : spectrum shift." : : Yes it does Jim and it also greatly increases internal bulb pressure. Increasing bulb : pressure alone increases output, as the argon gas pressure increases, due to added heat : and overdrive. : -- : Boomer : : Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum : http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php : : Want to See More ? : Please Join Our Growing Membership : www.coralrealm.com : : If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up : "Acrylics" wrote in message : ... : : Well, I admit I do not know this man very well, but he claims that someone : : he knows has a device that measures the light output and he said that : : fixture "was clocked at 130watts" : : : : Yeah well according to my clock - it's time to get the shovel out :) : : IME, overdriving NO tubes does increase intensity but it also causes a severe : : spectrum shift. : : I tried it a year or two ago - I started with Phillips 6500k bulbs from Home : : Depot, I used PFO electronic VHO ballasts to overdrive them. The output was : : much brighter than normal but the color was nearly green. I didn't wait around : : long enough to see what the lifespan of the bulbs would eventually be. : : Needless to say I put my URI bulbs back in. I think King Marc & I gabbed about : : this a little while back, his experiences were a little different though. It : : could have been he was using a different ballast - can't remember (gettin' old : : ;) : : : : James : : |
Overdriving NO Tubes
"Marc Levenson" wrote in message ...
Pszemol, why do your responses seem so aggressive? We're all friends here, as far as I know. What is so aggressive in my responses ? Disagreeing is not a sign of aggression. Friends can disagree and it does not affect the friendship. At least in my opinion... If I see a friend attempting to do something stupid I smack him in the forehead before he hurts himself ;-) No aggression intended. Read on.... Pszemol wrote: Just as often? You mean how often? VHO have to be replaced every 6 months. But we are not talking about VHO, right? We are talking about overdriven NO tubes. Who has measured here the spectrum changing over time given by the overdriven NO tubes? I asked Alex for his experiences but no response. Obviously, he did not test anything. Proper lab equipment to make these test is not easly accessible. This is the reason we need to trust the menufacturer in that matter. Who has proven that? Have you measured light spectrum of that overdriven tube? How do you know when to change it? I have not measured the spectrum. I know to replace my bulbs systematically every 6 months. What is the original source of this "6 months" value? How this derived from? Notice - I do not disagree with a need to replace VHO every 6 months - I just stated overdriving NO tube does not make it VHO tube. VHO have different design than NO. You pay $4.50 for a tube which gives really unknown spectrum. Not true. The packaging specifically states 6500K - Philips or Sylvania. Look for yourself. Last time I check there was only info about the spectrum with normally driven tubes. Not for overdriven ones... Most likely with cheap phosphors giving only what is needed to light the office space... These are not office lighting fluorescents. Those come by the case, or individually. These 6500K only come individually wrapped in a green or blue covering. OK - the question is: is it still really 6500K when overdriven? How is the spectrum change with overdriving the tube? Do you know that and can asure us that nothing changes except the intensity? Manufacturer of these tubes do not care about the spectrum and what waves of light does the tube really emit and how does it change over time... Really? So they make stuff up? Does Ushio do the same? Who tells the truth and who lies? Compare phosphors and spectrums of the tubes dedicated to aquarium usage. You will replace it normally when it stops working or starts flickering with red glow at the end :-) Nobody cares of the colors spectrum over their desks in the office or shop. We replace them on schedule. And every time I've done it, the bulb still "looked" fine but I knew it was done. You are the special one :-) In my office they change tubes when they stop working. And this is not the only office they do this. If you were to replace two tubes twice a year, $30 each it would be $120. Are the savings worth playing over a year? Yes, the savings is worth it, and numerous folks are doing this successfully. OK. And you do not know what you really get while saving money this way... You risk producing wrong light spectrum and promoting algae grow. I've had no algae issues, as you know from reading my posts here daily. Was it to contradict opinion about wrong spectrum promoting algae grow? Or maybe to contradict opinion that overdriven tubes change the spectrum? The spectrum change mostly, not the intensity decrease is the reason behind the recommendation for changing tubes every 6 months... Exactly. We don't replace them because they die. We do because the spectrum has been used up and will shift soon. I agree. So how can you know when to change overdriven tubes? Full blown reef in four-footer for $400 ? You must be kidding me... Lighting? I understood everything for 400. Not lighting - ok. If you are concerned with long-term savings the MH are the way to go for you. Hmmm. Disagree? |
Overdriving NO Tubes
"Mort" wrote in message y.com...
P(in watts) = I(amps) * E(volts) P -------- I * E Light is measured in lumens, watts is a measure of power consumed. It gets real tricky though if you try to convert any of these measurements to BTU's (British Thermal Units) JOhn :-) Not really, there are 3.413 BTUs per watt. I was wondering if someone was gonna bust out ohms law =) I am affraid you are missing the energy conversion ration from electricity to heat/light. Machines to do the conversion (bulbs in case of light) are not perfect, and they loose a lot of electric energy to produce useless heat. Teen percent of electricity is converted to light by the standard incadescent bulb. The rest, over 80% is exchanged to heat. Check the fluorescent tubes manufacturers data on the NO and VHO tubes. They differ, but roughly they not give you more then 30% of light out of electicity. The rest ot electricity is heat again. Wasted while dissipated into air. So be careful calculating things - adding efficiency of conversion makes calculations not so easy anymore... The change of balast from 60W to 130W for the same tube does not tell you ANYTHING about the amount of light this tube will provide. |
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