Fishkeeping - water problems

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- - water problems (http://www.fishkeepingbanter.com/showthread.php?t=22155)

I guess that I was just lucky introducing fish so quicklym but
somethinh you said confuses me. **wait until the nitrogen cycle has run
to completion before adding aquatic life**. I thought the nitrogen
cycle was due to the interaction of plants, bacteria and fish, so how
is there going to be any cycle before ading aquatic life? Unless, ypu
are using runoff from farm fields, I wouldm't expect to find
significant nitrogen anyway.I did test the water before starting and
not surprisingly found no trace of amonia, nitrates or nitrates. What
am I missing? Dave

Nothing Dave. Best to check out this website:
http://www.vcnet.com/koi_net/dan.html

To be fair, a pond can be cycled without fish, takes longer, and it will be
cycle per se (not measurable) because there will be snails that come in on
plants and dust/fall out from the environment and the bacteria will become
established. But that cycle will start a new with the addition of fish. See
thread Nitrogen Cycle FAQ.

http://members.tripod.com/~VideoDave/pool/pool.html

I sure like what you did with that swimming pool! ;o) ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

wrote in message
oups.com...
Oxymel of Squill wrote:

If it's a new pond I suggest leaving it at least a month before
putting in plants and then another year before introducing fish. Maybe
that's a bit ott and people in this group laugh at me for it, but it
works.

It does seem like overkill..............
=================
It's more than overkill. I filled the new 500 gallon holding "pond" for my
young koi, ran a foamer all night, added the plants the next morning and the
koi that afternoon. Within an hour the young fish were begging to be fed.
Not one has died. No dechlorinator was used. There was no ammonia spike
probably due to the nitrifying bacteria on and plants, the pots or the
floaters roots.
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED.
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

" George" wrote in message
news:uL6Ne.40084$084.11094@attbi_s22...

A rule of thumb with any new system, be it a pond or an aquarium is to
wait until the nitrogen cycle has run to completion before adding aquatic
life. That usually takes about 30-40 days (although some suggest waiting
even longer). Using that rule of thumb, one could predict that your first
group of feeder goldfish would die, since at 7 days ammonia levels are
near peak concentrations and nitrites begin to show up in the water (both
of which are highly toxic to fish and invertebrates)...........
==========================
Partial water changes could save these fish from the horrific death due to
ammonia/nitrite caused toxicity and suffocation. Use less fish to start the
cycle.
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

When there is amonia build up, I wonder how much is due to excess fish
food? Some people like to feed the koi, but I have had 3 ponds and have
never purchased any fish food. There is obviously enough natural food
for them to eat and they seem fat and happy.

Dave

http://members.tripod.com/~VideoDave/pool/pool.html

wrote in message
oups.com...
George wrote:

A rule of thumb with any new system, be it a pond or an aquarium is to
wait
until the nitrogen cycle has run to completion before adding aquatic
life.
That usually takes about 30-40 days (although some suggest waiting

I guess that I was just lucky introducing fish so quicklym but
somethinh you said confuses me. **wait until the nitrogen cycle has run
to completion before adding aquatic life**. I thought the nitrogen
cycle was due to the interaction of plants, bacteria and fish, so how
is there going to be any cycle before ading aquatic life? Unless, ypu
are using runoff from farm fields, I wouldm't expect to find
significant nitrogen anyway.I did test the water before starting and
not surprisingly found no trace of amonia, nitrates or nitrates. What
am I missing?

Dave

http://members.tripod.com/~VideoDave/pool/pool.html

Hi Dave:

I should have qualified that statement. You can add a minimum of aquatic
life (and sparingly feed it) to your pond as long as you understand that it
may not survive the first month or so. So the moral of that story is to be
prepared in case you need to scoop out your dead critters, and don't buy
expensive plants and animals until the pond is well established.

The link I provided earlier gives a link to details on how to jump start
the nitrogen cycle without adding aquatics to you system. All the
beneficial bacteria need to get started is a medium on which to grow,
nutrients to sustain them, and warm (above 62 F), clean, preferably aerated
water. Since that is the case, you should have your filtration system set
up and running 24/7, and add some nutrients. Since your pond is obviously
outdoors, the pond will naturally acquire the needed bacteria, because they
are pervasive in the environment. And the bacteria will grow on any
substrate in the pond, such as the walls, bottom, and any ornaments and
rocks you may have in it.

There are many ways to do jump start the cycle without introducing aquatics
to the pond, and I can't recommend which one will work best for you. One
method I've used works very well is to seed the pond with beneficial
bacteria and enzymes. Products such as microlift and aquazyme will do this
very well (I have used both products with success). During the seeding
process, you periodically add some nutrients to the water that the baceria
can eat. Some have used plain old flake fish food (myself included),
ground up to a powder). The flake food will decompose and produce
nutrients that the bacteria can eat. Others have actually gotten the
process started even faster by using commercial products that contain low
concentrations of ammonia (yes ammonia!) in conjunction with seeding with
bacteria and enzymes. You will need to research that route before trying
it, as I've not done it that way. I've heard both good and bad things
about doing it that way. Regardless of what route you go, monitor your
water quality and check your critters for signs of stress daily during the
break in period. And then periodically therafter.

It doesn't take a lot to get the cycle going, but bacteria concentrations
will vary depending on how vigorous you break in your pond, which is why it
is important to use the mimimum number of animals/plants necessary to cycle
the pond, to prevent a kill off and to reduce the incidence of early
disease manifestation. Like I said, you can add a small number of
"sacrificial" animals to get the process going as well. Adding a prize
critter early-on is definitely a no-no. Beware when adding inexpensive
feeder stock, however, as feeder fish are notorious for carrying paracites
and diseases simply because they are so cheap that many pet shops will not
go through the trouble and expense to properly quarantine and innoculate
these animals. So my advice is that if you go that route, know who you are
buying from. Ask questions, such as whether the animals have been properly
quarantined. If not, and you still want to buy from them, I strongly
advise you to quarantine them prior to introducing them into the pond, even
if they are to be used as "sacrificial lambs", or perhaps I should say
"especially" if you are going to use them as "sacrificial lambs". It is
much easier to prevent a paracite infestation or disease outbreak at the
pre-introduction phase than it is to get rid of those problems after the
fact. All it takes is one serious outbreak in your pond to ruin your
month, and perhaps, your budget as well. After the cycle has completed, as
shown in the graph on the earlier link I provided, and as Jan says, add
only a few animals at a time (one or two, depending on the size of your
pond), and over an extended period of time. Each plant/animal you add
changes the water chemistry, so you should allow time for the pond to
adjust between additions.

Here is another link you may want to read:

http://www.ponddoc.com/WhatsUpDoc/Wa...soningPond.htm

Don't let all of this scare you, because it isn't as hard as it sounds. I
actually take a lot of enjoyment from the effort and the results. It just
pays to be careful. I hope this helps.

Cheers,

George

wrote in message
ups.com...
When there is amonia build up, I wonder how much is due to excess fish
food? Some people like to feed the koi, but I have had 3 ponds and have
never purchased any fish food. There is obviously enough natural food
for them to eat and they seem fat and happy.

Dave

http://members.tripod.com/~VideoDave/pool/pool.html

Absolutely. Most times, especially if you don't have a lot of fish, there
should be plenty for them to eat. However, chances are, they are not
getting all of the nutrients they need, and so you should suppliment their
diet. And that, of course, is another entirely different can of worms,
altogether (pun intended).

wrote in message
ups.com...
When there is amonia build up, I wonder how much is due to excess fish
food? Some people like to feed the koi, but I have had 3 ponds and have
never purchased any fish food. There is obviously enough natural food
for them to eat and they seem fat and happy.
=========================
That would only work if there are a few fish in a large pond. My ponds
don't have enough bugs, insects and algae to feed the number of fish I keep.
There is no excess fish food in my ponds because the fish eat every last
pellet.
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o