Cycling and Bio-Filter in Planted Tank
 

Altum wrote,
The only thing plants don't remove from your list is solid particulate
waste and much of that settles in the root zone.

Plants do not remove inorganic pollutants such as DOCs (Dissolved
Organic Compounds = uneaten foods and fish waste) from the water
column. As a matter of fact, a 20% weekly water change still leaves
about 30 days of accumulated DOC pollutants in the tank. DOC levels can
be determined by comparing the differences between a chemical hardness
test and the TDS (total dissolved solid) reading from a conductivity
meter. As the DOCs start to accumulate over time, the water starts to
turn yellow and the water quality starts to drop.

A prefilter takes
care of anything floating in the water.

Very little solid waste should enter the bio-section. A pre-filter
traps this waste so it can't, or shouldn't. But, if the pre-filter
isn't cleaned at least a couple of times a week, the current (gph -
flow rate) within the filter dissolves the solids (DOCs) much quicker
than if they were left within the tank. As it is, left within the
pre-filter, the filter becomes the source of organic pollution and is
then pumped back into the tank.

solid particulate
waste and much of that settles in the root zone.

Pathogenic bacteria such as Aermonas and Pseudomonas bacteria break
down solids and are actually opportunistic Heterotroph bacteria. If
solid waste is left to accumulate within the tank their numbers grow.
Once their numbers are high enough and conditions are right,
opportunistic pathogens turn their attention to the fish. This happens
way more than people think - one of the things it's called is Fin and
Tail Rot! ................ Frank

Cycling and Bio-Filter in Planted Tank
 

Frank wrote:
Dick wrote,

I pulled my 4
bio wheels as they were not turning without constant cleaning of the
filters.


Ever check your DOC levels?


.........pull
a cartridge and substitute a clean one. I have never lost my
bacteria. All 5 of my tanks are planted with dense fish populations,
that is more than 1 inch per gallon.


It only takes one sq. meter of surface area with a bio-film to
metabolise nearly one gram of ammonia per day. Filters should remove
*all* three forms of pollution; dissolved compounds such as ammonia,
inorganic pollutants such as phosphate and DOCs, and solid particulate
waste. By removing all the filtering media at once and replacing it
with new, you *are* loosing all the bacteria within your filter. Your
filter becomes nothing but a machanical filter, removing some of the
solid particulate waste, like a pre-filter. If the cartridge, now your
pre-filter isn't cleaned or replaced at least weekly, the solid waste
decomposes within the media and is pumped back into your tank as
dissolved pollutants.DOCs start to turn the water yellow over time and
the water quality drops, unless you do a *lot* of water changing. Mean
while, the heterotroph bacteria that should be in the filter, is now in
your tank at high levels, along with ectoparasites such as flukes and
protozoa which thrive in high organic loaded water. High organics also
stress the fishs immune system and robs the oxygen from the water.

Just my opinion................... Frank


well, the bottles of liquid fertilizers tell you to remove the carbon
from filters. i have a hangon filter, a biowheel 350 or something, i
removed the wheels to reduce surface turbulence. is there a certain
time that it is "safe" to put the carbon back in? (safe meaning that it
wont absorb up the fertilizers). also, melafix requires taking out the
carbon too.

do you recommend using something other than carbon? my filter has extra
pockets to fill up with whatever media you want. should i put something
in there, is anything needed? my tank is 3 weeks old, moderately to
heavily planted, ~15 fish, mostly loaches

Cycling and Bio-Filter in Planted Tank
 

fusQuanto wrote,
well, the bottles of liquid fertilizers tell you to remove the carbon
from filters..........
also, melafix requires taking out the
carbon too.
is there a certain
time that it is "safe" to put the carbon back in?

The only time carbon is needed is to remove dyes, medications and
odors.

i have a hangon filter, a biowheel 350 or something.............

The break down time of DOCs is the most time consuming, so
bio-filtering is improved the longer the polluted water is held within
the media. With the amount of SSA (specific surface area) on a
bio-wheel, it makes them hard to beat. Plus they hold the polluted
water much longer than just being pumped through a filter.

do you recommend using something other than carbon? my filter has extra
pockets to fill up with whatever media you want. should i put something
in there, is anything needed?

There are three major factors affecting filter media; SSA, void space
and cleanability. Out of all the diferent filter medias (gravel,
plastic, ceramic, matting and foam sponge), foam sponge has the most
SSA, best void space and easyer to clean! I use those green or brown 3M
scrub pads for pre-filter media within my filters and 2 or 3 cut-to-fit
3/4" foam sponges. Pre filters are cleaned at least every other day.
That keeps those 2 or 3 bio-media foam sponges clean enough that I
don't have to squeeze them out in the change water but once or twice a
month............ Frank

Cycling and Bio-Filter in Planted Tank
 

Frank wrote:
fusQuanto wrote,

well, the bottles of liquid fertilizers tell you to remove the carbon

from filters..........

also, melafix requires taking out the
carbon too.
is there a certain
time that it is "safe" to put the carbon back in?


The only time carbon is needed is to remove dyes, medications and
odors.


i have a hangon filter, a biowheel 350 or something.............


The break down time of DOCs is the most time consuming, so
bio-filtering is improved the longer the polluted water is held within
the media. With the amount of SSA (specific surface area) on a
bio-wheel, it makes them hard to beat. Plus they hold the polluted
water much longer than just being pumped through a filter.


do you recommend using something other than carbon? my filter has extra
pockets to fill up with whatever media you want. should i put something
in there, is anything needed?


There are three major factors affecting filter media; SSA, void space
and cleanability. Out of all the diferent filter medias (gravel,
plastic, ceramic, matting and foam sponge), foam sponge has the most
SSA, best void space and easyer to clean! I use those green or brown 3M
scrub pads for pre-filter media within my filters and 2 or 3 cut-to-fit
3/4" foam sponges. Pre filters are cleaned at least every other day.
That keeps those 2 or 3 bio-media foam sponges clean enough that I
don't have to squeeze them out in the change water but once or twice a
month............ Frank


what filter do you have?

Cycling and Bio-Filter in Planted Tank
 

In article .com,
Frank wrote:
fusQuanto wrote,
well, the bottles of liquid fertilizers tell you to remove the carbon
from filters..........

That makes no sense. Who says this?

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

Cycling and Bio-Filter in Planted Tank
 

fusQuanto wrote,
what filter do you have?

I have a 5 gal. tank of neons in a spair bedroom for the grandkids when
they visit. It always has an AquaClear Mini (100gph) on it. One of the
90 gal. tanks for a couple of months now, has had two Marineland's
bio-wheel 330s - great filters. Last week I put two AquaClear 500s on
the other 90 gal. tank. A bit of an overkill (each 500gph), but not as
bad as I thought they were going to be (so for). I run tests and
evaluate aquarium equipment and products for a wholesale house and a
couple of pet stores. ............. Frank

Cycling and Bio-Filter in Planted Tank
 

Richard Sexton wrote:
In article .com,
Frank wrote:

fusQuanto wrote,

well, the bottles of liquid fertilizers tell you to remove the carbon

from filters..........


That makes no sense. Who says this?


actually its only the melafix that says it, not the ferts. i figured
the ferts would have the same problem too because the carbon is soaking
up the nutrients? no? im not a chemistry nor biology major so perhaps
you can shed some light. thx

Cycling and Bio-Filter in Planted Tank
 

fusQuanto wrote,
i figured
the ferts would have the same problem too because the carbon is soaking
up the nutrients? no?
That makes no sense. Who says this?

Makes sence to me - activated carbon removes; ammonia, nitrite, organic
compounds such as acids, phenolics, proteins, carbohydrates, hormones,
drugs, chemicals, trace elements, and natural metabolic compounds. I
know it removes heavy metals, it sucked the iron right out of my liquid
fertilizer!
.................... Frank

Cycling and Bio-Filter in Planted Tank
 

Frank wrote:
fusQuanto wrote,

i figured
the ferts would have the same problem too because the carbon is soaking
up the nutrients? no?

That makes no sense. Who says this?


Makes sence to me - activated carbon removes; ammonia, nitrite, organic
compounds such as acids, phenolics, proteins, carbohydrates, hormones,
drugs, chemicals, trace elements, and natural metabolic compounds. I
know it removes heavy metals, it sucked the iron right out of my liquid
fertilizer!
................... Frank

I accidentally left some carbon in one of my planted tanks - result was
the plants were decimated....

Gill

Cycling and Bio-Filter in Planted Tank
 

In article ,
fusQuanto wrote:

That makes no sense. Who says this?


actually its only the melafix that says it, not the ferts. i figured
the ferts would have the same problem too because the carbon is soaking
up the nutrients? no? im not a chemistry nor biology major so perhaps
you can shed some light. thx


Ok sure. Carbon filters out long-chain organics. Small molocules
pass tight through. In practical terms if you add say methylene
blue to the water and it's dark blue, carbon will filter that
out quite quickly.

But, if you were say to add salt to the tank, carbon wouldn't
touch it. It does not remove salt.

There are no hard and fast rules about this, but in a very rough
sense, rely on carbon not to remove anything transparent, but any
chemical "big" enouh to have color - well that will be filtered out
by carbon.

Melafix is good stuff, but it smells and looks like something that
would be filtered out by carbon. Not so fertilizers.

Having said that there are people who believe carbon will take
things ouf of the water like copper, iron and the like and its
no good for plants. This is slightly true. Carbon will remove
minicsule amnounts of these thigs, so if you never change water
and use carbon for months the plants may suffer. OTOH I've done
this and if they suffer it's really not so you'd notice.


--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net