New Tank
 

Koi-Lo wrote:

The problem with angels is once they start to breed they continue on and you
have to remove all the other fish or you have a war zone in your tank. Been
there. Done that several times. Angels don't stay small for long. They
were always one of my favorite tropical fish. But every time a pair started
to breed I either had to remove the pair and return them to the LFS or
remove all the other fish being harassed by them. It's something to think
about......


You're right, I've read about problems with breeding pairs - for some
reason I'd assumed there would be no breeding (bad assumption where
living things are concerned :-o ). Apparently in the wild they all
disappear off into the flooded forest during the wet season and breed
in pairs away from each other. They are highly terratorial during this
period. Then, breeding over, they return to the main river as the
water goes down and shoal together again. Maybe, if I _really_ want
angels I could just keep a pair in my 60 litre planted tank. It will
have much softer water because I'm using ADA Aquasoil and should they
choose to breed they will not be grumpy with other tank mates.
Although, if I did this I'd probably like to put a small oto or a
shrimp or two in the tank, if I could do thjat without trouble. I'd
have to be prepared to deal with the fry too should they spawn. Could
be quite exciting!

Thanks for your thoughts - very helpful, as usual :)


Muddy

New Tank
 

Richard Sexton wrote:
In article .com,
muddyfox wrote:
Richard Sexton wrote:

Ah, so that must be why you pick fish that like soft water? :-)
Apart from livebearers, angels and barbs are the only other fish I know
much about keeping. I guess I'm really sticking with what I know.

What about hard water fish? African cichlids? Monos, scats, archers, puffers?
(they prefer bit of salt).

Did anyone read that this is a 30 gallon tank??? Scats grow to 12" and
require full marine conditions in adulthood. There's no way to house
those fish long-term in a 30 gallon tank. Monos are not much better,
since they grow to 8" and are very active swimmers. Sebae monos can
reach a foot tall in good conditions. Maybe, just maybe, you could get
away with a fully grown archer in that tank.

Rainbowfish from the Glossolepis, Melanotaenia, and Telmatherina genuses
(includes celebes, boseman's, turquoise, and New Guinea red) require
hard water. Threadfins do OK in hard water too. Raunbows are easy to
keep and much more peaceful than African cichlids. Some species get as
large as 5", so be sure you have space for the adults.

I did look at cichlids but I can't see myself keeping them. Partly
this is because my reading suggests that they are harder to keep and
I'm just getting back into fishkeeping after a more than ten years away
from it so I figure I'll do some easier tanks first and partly because
I've heard nothing but bad things about their aggressive, territorial
behaviour. I know barbs, esp Tigers, get a bad press, but in a good
sized shoal with lots of swimming room and tank mates they can't bully
they seem fine.

Tiger barbs get bad press because they're nippy little SOBs. Put them
in a species tank, or forget about them. If you put them in with
swordtails like you were suggesting, the swords will be constantly damaged.

Afrcans are esier to keep than angels IMO.

African are amazingly hardy fish. Angels are hardy too, if you find
good ones. Problem is, your typical $3 angel is not healthy while a $1
"assorted African cichlid" will be fine.

My impression of cichlid tanks is that they are like a war zone and
little can be done to stop it. I can't seem to type the word 'cichlid'
into a search engine without hearing 'this fish ate this fish and keeps
the rest in terror' type stories. Maybe you only hear about the
disasters created through inexperience and lack of proper knowledge but
it doesn't encourage me at all. I suspect that I have quite a
jaundiced view of what can be a very beautiful group of fish.

I don't keep cichlids but a lot of my friends do. The problems with
uneven agression apparanly stem from mixing africans from different
lakes. Stick to one lake and you're ok.

....until they pair up, start breeding, and beat the snot outta anything
that moves. I kept a Tanganyikan tank with one pair of open-water
Malawi haps (they didn't fight for rock space so they were fine) and
still lost fish at first. However, that tank settled down once all the
fish found their territory. I had three different species of fish
breeding at the same time in that tank. In fact, I'd take a tank full
of African cichlids over a shoal of tiger barbs any day.

The worst cichlid tales are from the big South American cichlids rather
than Africans. Those fish are big and psychotic.

I do like the look of some of the Monodactylus spp, particualrly M.
sebae, but the nearest I've come to a brackish tank is to add some
aquarium salt for black mollies. How do you look after a fully
brackish setup? Do you need all the kit for marine - protien skimmer,
RO unit, sal****er mix (watered down), UV steriliser etc etc. or is
brackish more like tropical with aquarium salt added and GH and KH
monitered? I don't really like puffers or archers much although scats
are OK.

Add salt. That's it' Simple as pie.

Read comments on adult sizes of monos and scats above. To run a full
brackish setup, you use sal****er mix and monitor salinity with a
hydrometer. SG should be around 1.011. The high alkalinity and pH
means ammonia is very toxic so stocking should be lower than in
freshwater. You need good wet/dry or biowheel filtration, but UV, RO
and a skimmer are not necessary.

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to reply.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

New Tank
 

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 18:31:07 GMT, Altum
wrote:

Richard Sexton wrote:
In article .com,
muddyfox wrote:
Richard Sexton wrote:

Ah, so that must be why you pick fish that like soft water? :-)
Apart from livebearers, angels and barbs are the only other fish I know
much about keeping. I guess I'm really sticking with what I know.

What about hard water fish? African cichlids? Monos, scats, archers, puffers?
(they prefer bit of salt).

Did anyone read that this is a 30 gallon tank??? Scats grow to 12" and
require full marine conditions in adulthood. There's no way to house
those fish long-term in a 30 gallon tank. Monos are not much better,
since they grow to 8" and are very active swimmers. Sebae monos can
reach a foot tall in good conditions. Maybe, just maybe, you could get
away with a fully grown archer in that tank.

Rainbowfish from the Glossolepis, Melanotaenia, and Telmatherina genuses
(includes celebes, boseman's, turquoise, and New Guinea red) require
hard water. Threadfins do OK in hard water too. Raunbows are easy to
keep and much more peaceful than African cichlids. Some species get as
large as 5", so be sure you have space for the adults.

I did look at cichlids but I can't see myself keeping them. Partly
this is because my reading suggests that they are harder to keep and
I'm just getting back into fishkeeping after a more than ten years away
from it so I figure I'll do some easier tanks first and partly because
I've heard nothing but bad things about their aggressive, territorial
behaviour. I know barbs, esp Tigers, get a bad press, but in a good
sized shoal with lots of swimming room and tank mates they can't bully
they seem fine.

Tiger barbs get bad press because they're nippy little SOBs. Put them
in a species tank, or forget about them. If you put them in with
swordtails like you were suggesting, the swords will be constantly damaged.

Afrcans are esier to keep than angels IMO.

African are amazingly hardy fish. Angels are hardy too, if you find
good ones. Problem is, your typical $3 angel is not healthy while a $1
"assorted African cichlid" will be fine.

My impression of cichlid tanks is that they are like a war zone and
little can be done to stop it. I can't seem to type the word 'cichlid'
into a search engine without hearing 'this fish ate this fish and keeps
the rest in terror' type stories. Maybe you only hear about the
disasters created through inexperience and lack of proper knowledge but
it doesn't encourage me at all. I suspect that I have quite a
jaundiced view of what can be a very beautiful group of fish.

I don't keep cichlids but a lot of my friends do. The problems with
uneven agression apparanly stem from mixing africans from different
lakes. Stick to one lake and you're ok.

...until they pair up, start breeding, and beat the snot outta anything
that moves. I kept a Tanganyikan tank with one pair of open-water
Malawi haps (they didn't fight for rock space so they were fine) and
still lost fish at first. However, that tank settled down once all the
fish found their territory. I had three different species of fish
breeding at the same time in that tank. In fact, I'd take a tank full
of African cichlids over a shoal of tiger barbs any day.

The worst cichlid tales are from the big South American cichlids rather
than Africans. Those fish are big and psychotic.

I do like the look of some of the Monodactylus spp, particualrly M.
sebae, but the nearest I've come to a brackish tank is to add some
aquarium salt for black mollies. How do you look after a fully
brackish setup? Do you need all the kit for marine - protien skimmer,
RO unit, sal****er mix (watered down), UV steriliser etc etc. or is
brackish more like tropical with aquarium salt added and GH and KH
monitered? I don't really like puffers or archers much although scats
are OK.

Add salt. That's it' Simple as pie.

Read comments on adult sizes of monos and scats above. To run a full
brackish setup, you use sal****er mix and monitor salinity with a
hydrometer. SG should be around 1.011. The high alkalinity and pH
means ammonia is very toxic so stocking should be lower than in
freshwater. You need good wet/dry or biowheel filtration, but UV, RO
and a skimmer are not necessary.

Or you can start off with a few freshwater angelfish and after they
pair off and get territorial and begin to get into scraps with each
other, the resulting fish will look like Monos. Best off both worlds.

-- Mister Gardener

New Tank
 

"Altum" wrote in message
t...
Tiger barbs get bad press because they're nippy little SOBs. Put them in
a species tank, or forget about them. If you put them in with swordtails
like you were suggesting, the swords will be constantly damaged.

Somepeople think if you have enough Tigers in the tank they wont bother the
other fish - WRONG! I scratched them off my list long ago.

I don't keep cichlids but a lot of my friends do. The problems with
uneven agression apparanly stem from mixing africans from different
lakes. Stick to one lake and you're ok.

...until they pair up, start breeding, and beat the snot outta anything
that moves.

Some Africans will beat the snot out of anything that moves even when
they're not breeding. They take over part of the tank and that's that.
Rearrange the rocks and in less than 48 hours they have another part staked
out. And they sometimes gang-up on another tankmate and tear it to shreds.
Been there - got home just in time to save my Rusty back in 1999. For now
they're also off my "fish to keep" list.

I kept a Tanganyikan tank with one pair of open-water
Malawi haps (they didn't fight for rock space so they were fine) and still
lost fish at first. However, that tank settled down once all the fish
found their territory. I had three different species of fish breeding at
the same time in that tank. In fact, I'd take a tank full of African
cichlids over a shoal of tiger barbs any day.
The worst cichlid tales are from the big South American cichlids rather
than Africans. Those fish are big and psychotic.

So are some of the Malawi's once they reach a good size. :-(

Read comments on adult sizes of monos and scats above. To run a full
brackish setup, you use sal****er mix and monitor salinity with a
hydrometer. SG should be around 1.011. The high alkalinity and pH means
ammonia is very toxic so stocking should be lower than in freshwater. You
need good wet/dry or biowheel filtration, but UV, RO and a skimmer are not
necessary.

I noticed that some stores like PetsMart now have stickers on all their
tanks giving the adult size and diet of the fish they sell. I don't think
most people realize how LARGE some fish get.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

New Tank
 

"Mr. Gardener" wrote in message
...
Or you can start off with a few freshwater angelfish and after they
pair off and get territorial and begin to get into scraps with each
other, the resulting fish will look like Monos. Best off both worlds.
=================
But the bloody sores, missing scales and fuzzy fungus and bacterial flower
gardens sprouting from them wont be too attractive........
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

New Tank
 

Mid posted.
Koi-Lo wrote:
"muddyfox" wrote in message
oups.com...

Richard Sexton wrote:

Ah, so that must be why you pick fish that like soft water? :-)

Apart from livebearers, angels and barbs are the only other fish I
know much about keeping. I guess I'm really sticking with what I
know.

Google tropical fish and you will learn a lot about what's out there
and their water preferences. With our hard alkaline water I bypass
all the fish I know wont thrive in my tanks. I'm surprised Bettas
live as long as they do for me.

What about hard water fish? African cichlids? Monos, scats, archers,
puffers?
(they prefer bit of salt).

I did look at cichlids but I can't see myself keeping them. Partly
this is because my reading suggests that they are harder to keep and
I'm just getting back into fishkeeping after a more than ten years
away from it so I figure I'll do some easier tanks first and partly
because I've heard nothing but bad things about their aggressive,
territorial behaviour. I know barbs, esp Tigers, get a bad press,
but in a good sized shoal with lots of swimming room and tank mates
they can't bully they seem fine.

My impression of cichlid tanks is that they are like a war zone and
little can be done to stop it. I can't seem to type the word
'cichlid' into a search engine without hearing 'this fish ate this
fish and keeps the rest in terror' type stories. Maybe you only
hear about the disasters created through inexperience and lack of
proper knowledge but it doesn't encourage me at all. I suspect that
I have quite a jaundiced view of what can be a very beautiful group
of fish.

I should put my flame retardant suit on before saying this but I
AGREE with you about cichlids. Also I don't find the south American
cichlids all that attractive and they get large. The Malawi
(African) cichilds are much more colorful and only a little less
aggressive. Some of those also get large.

I do like the look of some of the Monodactylus spp, particualrly M.
sebae, but the nearest I've come to a brackish tank is to add some
aquarium salt for black mollies. How do you look after a fully
brackish setup? Do you need all the kit for marine - protien
skimmer, RO unit, sal****er mix (watered down), UV steriliser etc
etc.

No, not for a braskish tank. But many plants will not survive in
brackish water.

or is
brackish more like tropical with aquarium salt added and GH and KH
monitered? I don't really like puffers or archers much although
scats are OK.


If it were me I'd add one Endlers female, feed it well and stand
back.


Well, I have always had a soft spot for guppy's and I do love the
tiny little fry. I've usually ended up with too many though. They
would look georgeous - lots of them in a nice sized tank.

The problem I had with guppies is the age-old overpopulation to where
none grow out to a normal size.

My fancy guppies just die off one by one - which is why I am going to write
my next message on this newsgroup. Warning - I recommend no one depends on
live bearers being self-regulating because they aren't (at the very least
not if you want your other types of fish that are in the same tank to not be
affected or killed). Good luck all and later!

Then what do you do with them? The
stores want large guppies and don't take the small ones....... and
once overcrowded you need to do constant gravel vacuuming and water
changes - sometimes 2 or 3 times a week. I think you can see how I
ended up with mostly goldfish and koi.

Thanks ever so much for your ideas. I was really hoping the more
experienced folk here would be able to open my eyes to new
possibilities which is exactly what you've done!

Google around or pick up a good book on tropical fish from your LFS.
Bone up on what does well in your water, make a list and go from
there. :-)

New Tank
 

"Daniel Morrow" wrote in message
...
Koi-Lo wrote:
The problem I had with guppies is the age-old overpopulation to where
none grow out to a normal size.

My fancy guppies just die off one by one - which is why I am going to
write
my next message on this newsgroup. Warning - I recommend no one depends on
live bearers being self-regulating because they aren't (at the very least
not if you want your other types of fish that are in the same tank to not
be
affected or killed). Good luck all and later!
===========================
No, they're not self regulating. I didn't have problems with nitrites but
did have problems with perhaps hormones that stunted their growth. I
couldn't find any LFSs at the time to take any but the LARGEST most salable
guppies. After unloading those I was stuck with a mess of small unsalabe
fish..... finally I gave every single one to someone I knew with a 30L
tank. She put them in a community tank and in months had no guppies at all.
Those were the last guppies I had.

You may need more filtration (bigger filter, second filter etc.) on your
tank if you're seeing nitrites.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

New Tank
 

Richard Sexton wrote:
My favorite tank for years had one species of Cryptocoryne and Endlers
and that's it. Both took off like mad and there were hundreds of each.

That sounds lovely - what spp of Crypt did you use? Did you have any
additional lighting?

Thanks,

Muddy

New Tank
 

Koi-Lo wrote:
Google around or pick up a good book on tropical fish from your LFS. Bone
up on what does well in your water, make a list and go from there. :-)

Yes, I've got three books and I spend a tonne of time on the internet
looking up fish too but the biggest problem I seem to have with
research into this area generally is that the books don't agree with
each other. One will say such and such a fish is OK from pH 6.5 to pH
7.8 and another will say they need soft acid water (which doesn't agree
with pH 7.8!) and another will say suitable for any water type! It
drives me crazy. The same disparity in data is all over the internet
too. How do you find a reliable source of information? What do you
guys read to get decent fish info? Can you recommend a good website or
book with data I can trust?

Ho hum. Thanks! :)

Muddy

New Tank
 

Mr. Gardener wrote:

What I have learned from RAFM:
Filling a large tank with plants and one species of smallish fish to
capacity. There are so many kinds of fish that don't do much for me,
until you add 30 or 40 or more to a single species tank. I think
Gill's species tank of Blue Eyed Gertrudes got me thinking along those
lines. Your own mention of all tiger barbs sounds great.

Yes, the Tiger barbs are lovely fish. Could I put a couple of small
otos or loaches with the barbs, just to keep the algae down a bit? Or
would they get nipped to pieces?

Cheers :)

Muddy