Floating Oranda
 

Yes, in this case I think you do need collateral resource material



Well sorry but I come here in my spare time and spend enough time providing
references in the assignments which I write for my MA and in my work. It is
common knowledge that high nitrates aren't good for fish, especially fancy
goldfish, and if there is already an inherent problem such as swimbladder
then lowering the nitrates or keeping them low can do nothing but help an
already ill/stressed fish.
Mel.

"Tom La Bron" wrote in message
...
Mel,

Yes, in this case I think you do need collateral resource material. The
reason I ask is that I do have research that shows that Goldfish are fine
with high nitrates. Personally, I try to keep mine at or below 50ppm by
using philodendrons in my tanks and tubs, but I very seldom even worry
about
it. Woo and Bruno have probably done the most research around swim
bladder
problems and never once have they ever mentioned a coorelation with
nitrates
and they has three books to his credit. Also if nitrates are a
probability
in affecting goldfish and swim bladder problems (and goldfish are tolerant
of nitrates) you would think that Noga and Stoskopf would mention it in
their books about this correlation and they don't because many other fish
are a lot less tolerant of nitrates than Goldfish. So that is the reason
I
asked for reference, because what you said does not agree with established
research.

Tom L.L.
--------------------------------------
"Mel" wrote in message
...
Do you need a reference for everything written here? g
I haven't got a specific source but from my own experience I have found
that
when people have fish with swimbladder problems the nitrates are often
elevated far above the recommended minimum of 20. I have also read of
research being done into this and links being found between the two but
unfortunately it was a while ago and I cant remember where I read it.
However, even if nitrates aren't linked to swimbladder problems, it's
well
worth checking them and lowering them if necessary as if they are too
high
they will weaken the fish and make it harder for it to overcome any
health
problems which might arise/have already arisen.
Mel.


"Tom La Bron" wrote in message
...
Mel,

Where does it say that high nitrates are connected to swim bladder
problem?

Tom L.L.
---------------------------------------
"Mel" wrote in message
...
It does sound like he is suffering form a mild swimbladder problem.
High
nitrates have been linked to this so it is important that you test
your
water parameters (ammonia, nitrite and nitrate) as soon as you can.
STarving the fish for 3 days then feeding nothing but defrosted
frozen
peas,
shelled and chopped for another 3 days often does the trick for mild
cases
so it would be worth a try (it wont hurt your other one to follow
the
same
regime). It is also a good idea to feed peas twice a week in order
to
keep
it from happening again.
Flakes aren't that great for goldfish - high protein sinking pellets
are
generally best.
Mel.

"MartinOsirus" wrote in message
...
One of my Orandas seems to float at the top of the tank quite a
bit,
especially after they eat. I'm wondering if he's gulping in
air
with
his
food.

Yes he's gulping air if feeding at the water surface. Feed sinking
food -
pellets best for the larger fish. Pre-soak the food so it sinks.
Gulping
air
can cause floating.

Floating Oranda
 

I agree. Many of us are absolutely amazed by people keep a GF in absolutely
horrendous conditions and the GF thrives. But our gorgeous, expensive fancy with
long fins gets sulky and ragged finnage the minute the nitrates go over 20 ppm. High
nitrates are also just an indicator of other untested waste products in the tank as
well. As Jo Ann says "tanks are controlled sewers". Our GF deserve regular water
changes. Ingrid

"Mel" wrote:
Well sorry but I come here in my spare time and spend enough time providing
references in the assignments which I write for my MA and in my work. It is
common knowledge that high nitrates aren't good for fish, especially fancy
goldfish, and if there is already an inherent problem such as swimbladder
then lowering the nitrates or keeping them low can do nothing but help an
already ill/stressed fish.
Mel.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Floating Oranda
 

Just out of curiosity...

Is it possible that the fish have just gotten used to, or adjusted, to these
conditions? If the fish is used to clean water, then obviously a rise in
ammonia, or nitrates, or whatever would stress it. On the same token, could
a gf not get used to living in higher nitrate levels? I basically look
after my tanks as close "to the book" as possible in my circumstances, but
we always hear stories of fish surviving conditions we feel are horrible.
The fish has probably just adjusted and would deteriorate in what we would
call "better" conditions, wouldn't it?

Tammy {


wrote in message
...
I agree. Many of us are absolutely amazed by people keep a GF in
absolutely
horrendous conditions and the GF thrives. But our gorgeous, expensive
fancy with
long fins gets sulky and ragged finnage the minute the nitrates go over 20
ppm. High
nitrates are also just an indicator of other untested waste products in
the tank as
well. As Jo Ann says "tanks are controlled sewers". Our GF deserve
regular water
changes. Ingrid

"Mel" wrote:
Well sorry but I come here in my spare time and spend enough time
providing
references in the assignments which I write for my MA and in my work. It
is
common knowledge that high nitrates aren't good for fish, especially
fancy
goldfish, and if there is already an inherent problem such as swimbladder
then lowering the nitrates or keeping them low can do nothing but help an
already ill/stressed fish.
Mel.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Floating Oranda
 

I am sorry Mel, just because it is said that does not make it a fact or a
reality. There are a lot of things that are "common knowledge," but that
does not make them true. Just because something is said or touted long
enough or loud enough does not make it true.

You may want to check real research by Wickens, Tchobanoglous and Colt,
1976.

Tom L.L.
"Mel" wrote in message
...
Yes, in this case I think you do need collateral resource material



Well sorry but I come here in my spare time and spend enough time
providing
references in the assignments which I write for my MA and in my work. It
is
common knowledge that high nitrates aren't good for fish, especially fancy
goldfish, and if there is already an inherent problem such as swimbladder
then lowering the nitrates or keeping them low can do nothing but help an
already ill/stressed fish.
Mel.

"Tom La Bron" wrote in message
...
Mel,

Yes, in this case I think you do need collateral resource material. The
reason I ask is that I do have research that shows that Goldfish are
fine
with high nitrates. Personally, I try to keep mine at or below 50ppm by
using philodendrons in my tanks and tubs, but I very seldom even worry
about
it. Woo and Bruno have probably done the most research around swim
bladder
problems and never once have they ever mentioned a coorelation with
nitrates
and they has three books to his credit. Also if nitrates are a
probability
in affecting goldfish and swim bladder problems (and goldfish are
tolerant
of nitrates) you would think that Noga and Stoskopf would mention it in
their books about this correlation and they don't because many other
fish
are a lot less tolerant of nitrates than Goldfish. So that is the
reason
I
asked for reference, because what you said does not agree with
established
research.

Tom L.L.
--------------------------------------
"Mel" wrote in message
...
Do you need a reference for everything written here? g
I haven't got a specific source but from my own experience I have
found
that
when people have fish with swimbladder problems the nitrates are often
elevated far above the recommended minimum of 20. I have also read of
research being done into this and links being found between the two
but
unfortunately it was a while ago and I cant remember where I read it.
However, even if nitrates aren't linked to swimbladder problems, it's
well
worth checking them and lowering them if necessary as if they are too
high
they will weaken the fish and make it harder for it to overcome any
health
problems which might arise/have already arisen.
Mel.


"Tom La Bron" wrote in message
...
Mel,

Where does it say that high nitrates are connected to swim bladder
problem?

Tom L.L.
---------------------------------------
"Mel" wrote in message
...
It does sound like he is suffering form a mild swimbladder
problem.
High
nitrates have been linked to this so it is important that you test
your
water parameters (ammonia, nitrite and nitrate) as soon as you
can.
STarving the fish for 3 days then feeding nothing but defrosted
frozen
peas,
shelled and chopped for another 3 days often does the trick for
mild
cases
so it would be worth a try (it wont hurt your other one to follow
the
same
regime). It is also a good idea to feed peas twice a week in order
to
keep
it from happening again.
Flakes aren't that great for goldfish - high protein sinking
pellets
are
generally best.
Mel.

"MartinOsirus" wrote in message
...
One of my Orandas seems to float at the top of the tank quite
a
bit,
especially after they eat. I'm wondering if he's gulping in
air
with
his
food.

Yes he's gulping air if feeding at the water surface. Feed
sinking
food -
pellets best for the larger fish. Pre-soak the food so it
sinks.
Gulping
air
can cause floating.

Floating Oranda
 

yes. individual fish may be able adjust to various levels of toxins. but they dont
thrive either. toxins are a stress and any stress weakens the fish immune system.
But what people are saying is their fanciest fish, the one with the longest fins do
not tolerate even relatively low levels of nitrates. Maybe this is one of the big
differences between ponds and aquariums. Outdoor in my ponds my fish are NEVER
exposed to any nitrates at all and they thrive and grow and get brilliant colored.
Once inside, they just dont do as well.
Of course, look at tropicals. A friend, the Pond Lady had some and said her well
water had nitrates in it (she was in agricultural area) and she had to leave the
water in another heavily planted tank to clean out the nitrates before using it in
her trops tank. trops evidently wont tolerate any nitrates at all. So GF do
tolerate some without dying, but I think over the long haul it slowly takes em down
too. one reason I like to send my GF out to summer camp. Ingrid

"Watkins Lady" wrote:
Just out of curiosity...

Is it possible that the fish have just gotten used to, or adjusted, to these
conditions? If the fish is used to clean water, then obviously a rise in
ammonia, or nitrates, or whatever would stress it. On the same token, could
a gf not get used to living in higher nitrate levels? I basically look
after my tanks as close "to the book" as possible in my circumstances, but
we always hear stories of fish surviving conditions we feel are horrible.
The fish has probably just adjusted and would deteriorate in what we would
call "better" conditions, wouldn't it?

Tammy


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.