Carol wrote #a whole lot of things,
debating each and every point of BV and mine
and jan's

Carol,
I'm very pleased nets work for you.
Really.
I just get tired of you always posting how every other
method won't work. They DO work. For some ponders.
There is NO absolute way. Nets are not for everyone
and I'm not going to point by point go through all your
disagreements, I've read them so very many times before.
I'd rather we all just post possible solutions
and you can always post nets work wonderfully for you.
They should always be an option but not the only
option. Other options do work. And we should always offer
them to posters asking for solutions. Then they can read through,
mull over the possible solutions and make a choice.

kathy

"kathy" wrote in message
oups.com...
Carol wrote #a whole lot of things,
debating each and every point of BV and mine
and jan's
=====================
Carol,
I'm very pleased nets work for you.
Really.
I just get tired of you always posting how every other
method won't work. They DO work. For some ponders.

## For *few* ponders. None that I ever knew. However I knew several over
the years that spent a lot of time and money with sprayers, running wire all
around their ponds, fake fish etc, (including myself, except the sprayer)
and the herons and King Fishers kept right on getting the fish. Perhaps
these things work in towns or in cities where these birds are rare to start
with. But to post as though they do and WILL in general *work* is
misleading. Perhaps we should ask where the people are located who are
asking about herons.

There is NO absolute way. Nets are not for everyone
and I'm not going to point by point go through all your
disagreements,

## Fish are not for everyone either for that matter. If the ugly sprayers
and wires all over the place don't work they can always hire full time pond
guards or forget keeping fish altogether. :-) Lighten up!

I've read them so very many times before.
I'd rather we all just post possible solutions
and you can always post nets work wonderfully for you.
They should always be an option but not the only
option. Other options do work.

## Yes, temporarily. Herons are smart birds. I just don't want anyone
else to experience the losses, disappointments and heartbreak I did.

And we should always offer
them to posters asking for solutions. Then they can read through,
mull over the possible solutions and make a choice.

## How can they make an educated choice without hearing form those who tried
these other methods and none worked long-term and why? Do you realize some
people are blaming herons for taking fish when the problem is snakes or
frogs? We need to ask them if these predators are also in their pond. I
don't recall anyone asking them that question. Some people never see a
snake but suddenly find a shed skin near their pond. We can't assume every
missing fish ended up dinner for some heron.
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"Eat Right, Exercise, Die Anyway."
~~~~~~~ }((((((o
"They laugh because I'm different, I laugh because they're all the same."
http://www.heartoftn.net/users/windsong/index.html
Completely FREE softwa
http://www.pricelessware.org/thelist/index.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In article ,
San Diego Joe wrote:

"Katra" wrote:

In article ,
~ jan JJsPond.us wrote:

snip

Where do you get fish decoys???

/snip


When any of my fish go belly up, I just have them stuffed, waterproofed and
put back in the pond attached to a small anchor.

San Diego Joe
4,000 - 5,000 Gallons.
Goldfish, a RES named Colombo and an Oscar.


Now that is an interesting idea!!!
--
K.

Sprout the MungBean to reply

"I don't like to commit myself about heaven and hell--you
see, I have friends in both places." --Mark Twain

In article , "~ Windsong ~" P@P
wrote:

"Benign Vanilla" wrote in message
...

"kathy" wrote in message
oups.com...
Carol wrote And in the end only bird netting works

Netting is always an option
but some people really don't want to net their ponds.
For them it spoils the look,
makes it hard to work in the pond,
ruins the look of tall marginals,
gets blown off,
for me it is a danger for my dogs, younger children, the squirrels
and the birds.
Herons have stabbed through nets, green herons have wriggled under
nets. If you tangle up a heron in your net and kill it you have some
serious explaining to do to the feds.
Other options DO work for other ponders so I think it is important to
list them as they DO work.
I most always list netting as an option but other options
DO WORK for other ponders.

I concure. The hooting, hollering, flapping your arms, screaming while
your
dog barks at you technique is so far working well for me.
========================
It worked for us for awhile as well. Then the herons came so early in the
morning we were still asleep. Do you ever sleep? Some learned to come at
sundown when we weren't likely out in the yard. We had better things to do
than sit at the windows from morning to night watching and guarding the
ponds. Do you pay someone to guard your pond when you're out of town or at
work? Kingfishers drop out of nowhere and all the flapping, screaming and
barking dogs will not stop them. By the time you get out the door the KF
is flying away with the fish.

My border collie is faster than any bird, and has killed small possums
coming into the yard.

The thing is, if your dog manages to grab and kill a heron (and I know
Jewely would!) how much trouble would you be in? It's not like you meant
for it to happen, and the great blues and little greens are not an
endangered species.

I like Herons and have rescued them and would hate to see one killed,
but accidents can happen. I'm just wondering what the authorities feel
about the natural instincts of certain breeds of dogs?
--
K.

Sprout the MungBean to reply

"I don't like to commit myself about heaven and hell‹you
see, I have friends in both places." --Mark Twain

"Katra" wrote in message
...

My border collie is faster than any bird, and has killed small possums
coming into the yard.

## My Doberman and large mutt has killed possums too. :-(

The thing is, if your dog manages to grab and kill a heron (and I know
Jewely would!) how much trouble would you be in?

## Who would know?

It's not like you meant
for it to happen, and the great blues and little greens are not an
endangered species.

## No one would know unless you told them. Your dog killing one is not the
same as you shooting it.

I like Herons and have rescued them and would hate to see one killed,
but accidents can happen. I'm just wondering what the authorities feel
about the natural instincts of certain breeds of dogs?

## You can call the Dept. of the Interior for information or the Wildlife
Service where you live.

--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"Eat Right, Exercise, Die Anyway."
~~~~~~~ }((((((o
Completely FREE softwa
http://www.pricelessware.org/thelist/index.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"~ Windsong ~" P@P wrote in message
...
snip
I concure. The hooting, hollering, flapping your arms, screaming while
your dog barks at you technique is so far working well for me.

It worked for us for awhile as well. Then the herons came so early in the
morning we were still asleep. Do you ever sleep? Some learned to come at
sundown when we weren't likely out in the yard. We had better things to
do
than sit at the windows from morning to night watching and guarding the
ponds. Do you pay someone to guard your pond when you're out of town or
at
work? Kingfishers drop out of nowhere and all the flapping, screaming and
barking dogs will not stop them. By the time you get out the door the KF
is flying away with the fish.
--

So far, so good... :)


--
BV
Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com
http://www.iheartmypond.com
I'll be leaning on the bus stop post.

"~ Windsong ~" P@P wrote in message
...

"kathy" wrote in message
oups.com...
Carol wrote #a whole lot of things,
debating each and every point of BV and mine
and jan's
=====================
Carol,
I'm very pleased nets work for you.
Really.
I just get tired of you always posting how every other
method won't work. They DO work. For some ponders.

## For *few* ponders. None that I ever knew. However I knew several
over
the years that spent a lot of time and money with sprayers, running wire
all
around their ponds, fake fish etc, (including myself, except the sprayer)
and the herons and King Fishers kept right on getting the fish. Perhaps
these things work in towns or in cities where these birds are rare to
start
with. But to post as though they do and WILL in general *work* is
misleading. Perhaps we should ask where the people are located who are
asking about herons.

I think Kathy is just saying there are options that work. For example, by
hooting, hollering, running, screaming, flapping my arms technique (patent
pending) has worked very well. No fish loss from Heron so far. Your Heron
and Kingfishers may be more persistent then mine. I have many ponds in yards
around me, so maybe they just other, quieter sources of food. Either way, my
solution has so far...worked very well.
snip

## How can they make an educated choice without hearing form those who
tried
these other methods and none worked long-term and why? Do you realize
some
people are blaming herons for taking fish when the problem is snakes or
frogs? We need to ask them if these predators are also in their pond. I
don't recall anyone asking them that question. Some people never see a
snake but suddenly find a shed skin near their pond. We can't assume
every
missing fish ended up dinner for some heron.
snip

True that. Last year, one of our Koi disappeared, plants knocked over and a
very racoon like scat was found on the edge of the pond. Dern Racoons. My
neighbor even mentioned to me he saw a racoon walking down the street
towards my house. He must have heard about the buffet. My fish will swim
into your hand if you sit there, so they are certainly dinner options for
animals.


--
BV
Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com
http://www.iheartmypond.com
I'll be leaning on the bus stop post.

"Katra" wrote in message
...
snip
My border collie is faster than any bird, and has killed small possums
coming into the yard.

The thing is, if your dog manages to grab and kill a heron (and I know
Jewely would!) how much trouble would you be in? It's not like you meant
for it to happen, and the great blues and little greens are not an
endangered species.

I like Herons and have rescued them and would hate to see one killed,
but accidents can happen. I'm just wondering what the authorities feel
about the natural instincts of certain breeds of dogs?
snip

I suspect you'd be in no trouble at all. Your dog in your yard? Hardly a
crime. Now, if you shot the bird and held it down for spot to kill, that
might be an issue.


--
BV
Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com
http://www.iheartmypond.com
I'll be leaning on the bus stop post.

What I want to know is what herons taste like ?

Peter
"Katra" wrote in message
...
In article ,
San Diego Joe wrote:

"Katra" wrote:

In article ,
~ jan JJsPond.us wrote:

snip

Where do you get fish decoys???

/snip


When any of my fish go belly up, I just have them stuffed, waterproofed
and
put back in the pond attached to a small anchor.

San Diego Joe
4,000 - 5,000 Gallons.
Goldfish, a RES named Colombo and an Oscar.


Now that is an interesting idea!!!
--
K.

Sprout the MungBean to reply

"I don't like to commit myself about heaven and hell--you
see, I have friends in both places." --Mark Twain

"2pods" wrote in message
...
What I want to know is what herons taste like ?
snip

Resist....urge....to....say....


Aghhhhhh

THEY TASTE LIKE CHICKEN!!!!!


--
BV
Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com
http://www.iheartmypond.com
I'll be leaning on the bus stop post.

"Benign Vanilla" wrote in message
...

"2pods" wrote in message
...
What I want to know is what herons taste like ?
snip

Resist....urge....to....say....


Aghhhhhh

Good enough for me and the cats :-)
After all, eating is not killing .

Peter

THEY TASTE LIKE CHICKEN!!!!!


--
BV
Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com
http://www.iheartmypond.com
I'll be leaning on the bus stop post.

~ Windsong ~ wrote:

gets blown off,

## It can't get blown off if it's put on right. You don't just toss it
## over the pond.

Right. I've had winds that could blow _anything_ away.

Herons have stabbed through nets,

## Herons do not STAB fish through nets or any other way. Herons GRAB
## the fish with their beaks - they do not stab them!

That's both simplistic, and wrong. Herons strike with a stabbing motion, so
while that isn't the mechanism they use to kill fish, it's still
descriptive. In any case, Herons _have_ been known to stab fish. I don't
know if it's accidental or what, but enough people have found dead fish
with triangular holes in them to be sure that Herons do occasionally do
that.

## I have never had one tangled up in the net. The net is too tight to
tangle a large bird. A small bird may get a head and wing caught. Also
the
Feds do not post the "pond police" in your backyard! LOL!!! You've got
to be kidding me!!!! :-D

And that's an excuse, why? The Feds won't post somebody in your back yard
to make sure you aren't murdering your neighbors, either, but it would
still be wrong to do it.

--
derek

Benign Vanilla wrote:


"2pods" wrote in message
...
What I want to know is what herons taste like ?
snip

Resist....urge....to....say....


Aghhhhhh

THEY TASTE LIKE CHICKEN!!!!!


Thanks, Jeff. Now the urge for me to say it has gone away :-)
--
derek

~ Windsong ~ wrote:

And we should always offer
them to posters asking for solutions. Then they can read through,
mull over the possible solutions and make a choice.

## How can they make an educated choice without hearing form those who
## tried

Huh? How can they make an educated choice when you keep telling them there
is one, and only one, way? You're sounding like solo...
--
derek

In article ,
"Benign Vanilla" wrote:

"Katra" wrote in message
...
snip
My border collie is faster than any bird, and has killed small possums
coming into the yard.

The thing is, if your dog manages to grab and kill a heron (and I know
Jewely would!) how much trouble would you be in? It's not like you meant
for it to happen, and the great blues and little greens are not an
endangered species.

I like Herons and have rescued them and would hate to see one killed,
but accidents can happen. I'm just wondering what the authorities feel
about the natural instincts of certain breeds of dogs?
snip

I suspect you'd be in no trouble at all. Your dog in your yard? Hardly a
crime. Now, if you shot the bird and held it down for spot to kill, that
might be an issue.

That's kind of the way I look at it... ;-)

Border collies are excellent guard dogs.
--
K.

Sprout the MungBean to reply

"I don't like to commit myself about heaven and hell‹you
see, I have friends in both places." --Mark Twain

In rec.ponds ~ Windsong ~ P@p wrote:
"kathy" wrote in message
oups.com...
Carol wrote And in the end only bird netting works

Netting is always an option
but some people really don't want to net their ponds.
For them it spoils the look,

## Yes it does effect the looks of the pond. But so does those tall gawky
water sprayers and wire/string strung all over the place. I didn't want to
net mine either considering they're both in front of my house. However I
was sick and tired of losing koi and GF to these predators. We did try
other methods first. Nothing worked. Perhaps other people can afford the
endless losses and don't get attached to their fish. I do. It was both an
emotional issue as well as a financial issue. When herons and King Fishers
discover your pond all you become is a feeding station for them. Also, if
you're in an area frequented by these birds you will usually (but not
always) also end up with large fish eating water snakes and bullfrogs. At
that point you may as well buy a fish hatchery.

Here's a potentially radical idea. How about tolerating the birds and
designing a way for them to gravitate towards the far more replaceable
fish (and less emotionally attached) than the expensive koi? The best
design I've seen so far is a deep, vertically flat sided pond fed by a
long, shallow stream/waterfall at a public koi pond. The stream was
teaming with mosquito fish, crayfish and occasionally goldfish fry. The
herons almost always ate from there instead of attempting to get anything
in the main pond because they could wade into the stream and have pretty
easy pickings. Loosing those kind of fish wasn't a big deal (although I
suppose losing too many mosquito fish could be a problem in mosquito
season, but it's easy to get more). The only koi lost was due to human
problems when a teen threw a stepping stone from the garden into the pond
and it hit a koi.

The stream served a second purpose too. It was planted with milfoil and
other plants, so it acted as a vegetative filter. The whole stream had
pretty good daylight exposure for plant growth while the actual pond was
partially shaded. Actually, the only foreign species in the pond was a
muskrat that kept trying to build its nest in the pump house. Watching the
herons catch the fish in the stream added a nice natural touch I thought.

"Cichlidiot" wrote in message
...
In rec.ponds ~ Windsong ~ P@p wrote:
"kathy" wrote in message
oups.com...
Carol wrote And in the end only bird netting works

Netting is always an option
but some people really don't want to net their ponds.
For them it spoils the look,

## Yes it does effect the looks of the pond. But so does those tall
gawky
water sprayers and wire/string strung all over the place. I didn't want
to
net mine either considering they're both in front of my house. However
I
was sick and tired of losing koi and GF to these predators. We did try
other methods first. Nothing worked. Perhaps other people can afford
the
endless losses and don't get attached to their fish. I do. It was both
an
emotional issue as well as a financial issue. When herons and King
Fishers
discover your pond all you become is a feeding station for them. Also,
if
you're in an area frequented by these birds you will usually (but not
always) also end up with large fish eating water snakes and bullfrogs.
At
that point you may as well buy a fish hatchery.

Here's a potentially radical idea. How about tolerating the birds and
designing a way for them to gravitate towards the far more replaceable
fish (and less emotionally attached) than the expensive koi? The best
design I've seen so far is a deep, vertically flat sided pond fed by a
long, shallow stream/waterfall at a public koi pond.

$$ Oh that would be lovely if we were rich. :-) Have you any idea what
something like that would cost? If we had that kind of money we could call
in some pond builders and redo both ponds. In fact replace them with one
huge 3 to 4,000 gallon pond. But where would I put the plants then if there
are no shelves? How would this keep the (bullfrogs, snakes, snappers) King
Fishers out of the steep sided pond? Steep sided plants ponds are not
attractive or natural looking.

The stream was
teaming with mosquito fish, crayfish and occasionally goldfish fry. The
herons almost always ate from there instead of attempting to get anything
in the main pond because they could wade into the stream and have pretty
easy pickings.

$$ What stream? How long was the stream,? Herons do not want 1/2" fry or
small crayfish. How did you keep mosquito fish in the stream and out of the
pond itself?

Loosing those kind of fish wasn't a big deal (although I
suppose losing too many mosquito fish could be a problem in mosquito
season, but it's easy to get more).

$$ Mosquitoes do not breed in streams (moving water). I can't believe you
managed to keep the fish in the stream for the herons, and out of your
pond. Did you have a net at the end of the stream? How large were the
mosquito fish?

The only koi lost was due to human
problems when a teen threw a stepping stone from the garden into the pond
and it hit a koi.

$$ Fortunately we don't have problems like that since we live out in the
country.

The stream served a second purpose too. It was planted with milfoil and
other plants, so it acted as a vegetative filter. The whole stream had
pretty good daylight exposure for plant growth while the actual pond was
partially shaded. Actually, the only foreign species in the pond was a
muskrat that kept trying to build its nest in the pump house. Watching the
herons catch the fish in the stream added a nice natural touch I thought.

$$ How did you keep the fish in the stream? And what about those of us who
don't have $10,000+ to call in pond builders or don't have the space for
huge streams?
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"Eat Right, Exercise, Die Anyway."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Benign Vanilla" wrote in message
...

"~ Windsong ~" P@P wrote in message
...
----
I think Kathy is just saying there are options that work. For example, by
hooting, hollering, running, screaming, flapping my arms technique (patent
pending) has worked very well.

## So you stand outside or have someone stand outside from sunup to
sundown? We can't afford to pay someone to stay out there guarding our
ponds 7 days a week. In summer we often go away for weekends.

No fish loss from Heron so far. Your Heron
and Kingfishers may be more persistent then mine. I have many ponds in
yards
around me, so maybe they just other, quieter sources of food. Either way,
my
solution has so far...worked very well.
snip

## See above. We can't afford to hire a guard and we're not always home.
When we are, we are not at the windows watching for fish predators. I
would run out doing the screaming and flapping, with the 3 dogs no less - I
wrote about it here several years ago. At first it worked. They'd stay
away for a few days. Then, after awhile, a few weeks maybe, the herons
would fly into nearby trees until I went back inside. Within 15 minutes
they were fishing again. Yes, they were persistent. We often saw one
fishing in the ponds while another was up in a nearby tree. Or one was
behind the house fishing the kiddy pools. On one occasion there were three
in our yard.

## How can they make an educated choice without hearing form those who
tried
these other methods and none worked long-term and why? Do you realize
some
people are blaming herons for taking fish when the problem is snakes or
frogs? We need to ask them if these predators are also in their pond.
I
don't recall anyone asking them that question. Some people never see a
snake but suddenly find a shed skin near their pond. We can't assume
every
missing fish ended up dinner for some heron.
snip

True that. Last year, one of our Koi disappeared, plants knocked over and
a
very racoon like scat was found on the edge of the pond. Dern Racoons. My
neighbor even mentioned to me he saw a racoon walking down the street
towards my house. He must have heard about the buffet. My fish will swim
into your hand if you sit there, so they are certainly dinner options for
animals.

## Because of the dogs raccoons don't come into our yard. We have them as
well as deer, possums, skunks, red and blue fox, huge flocks of turkeys,
hawks......
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"Eat Right, Exercise, Die Anyway."
~~~~~~~ }((((((o
http://www.heartoftn.net/users/windsong/index.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Cichlidiot wrote:

Here's a potentially radical idea. How about tolerating the birds and
designing a way for them to gravitate towards the far more replaceable
fish (and less emotionally attached) than the expensive koi? The best
design I've seen so far is a deep, vertically flat sided pond fed by a
long, shallow stream/waterfall at a public koi pond. The stream was

Sounds good.

teaming with mosquito fish, crayfish and occasionally goldfish fry. The
herons almost always ate from there instead of attempting to get anything
in the main pond because they could wade into the stream and have pretty
easy pickings. Loosing those kind of fish wasn't a big deal (although I
suppose losing too many mosquito fish could be a problem in mosquito
season, but it's easy to get more).

Not likely to be a problem. I've never seen mosquito larvae or even many
mosquitos around my ponds. Koi and Goldfish are quite happy to eat them
too.

The only koi lost was due to human
problems when a teen threw a stepping stone from the garden into the pond
and it hit a koi.

Remove stone, tie round teenager's neck, repeat...

The stream served a second purpose too. It was planted with milfoil and
other plants, so it acted as a vegetative filter.

I've done that. It requires vigilance, though. That milfoil has a tendency
to dam the whole stream.

--
derek

"Katra" wrote in message
...
snip
I suspect you'd be in no trouble at all. Your dog in your yard? Hardly a
crime. Now, if you shot the bird and held it down for spot to kill, that
might be an issue.

That's kind of the way I look at it... ;-)

Border collies are excellent guard dogs.
snip

I am not a lawyer. I don't play one on TV, and I didn't stay in a Holiday
Inn Express last night. Dislaimers aside, I keep my dog well trained, and
housed in a yard with gates, and locks, etc. If a critter makes it into my
yard, and she kills it, I'd be unhappy about it, but que sera. This goes for
neighbor's pets as well. If a cat wanders into my dog's space, and the dog
nabs it (not that she could, she's a total wuss when it comes to cats) again
I'd feel bad, but I would feel no obligation to the owner.


--
BV
Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com
http://www.iheartmypond.com
I'll be leaning on the bus stop post.

"~ Windsong ~" P@P wrote in message
...
snip
Here's a potentially radical idea. How about tolerating the birds and
designing a way for them to gravitate towards the far more replaceable
fish (and less emotionally attached) than the expensive koi? The best
design I've seen so far is a deep, vertically flat sided pond fed by a
long, shallow stream/waterfall at a public koi pond.

$$ Oh that would be lovely if we were rich. :-) Have you any idea what
something like that would cost? If we had that kind of money we could
call
in some pond builders and redo both ponds. In fact replace them with one
huge 3 to 4,000 gallon pond. But where would I put the plants then if
there
are no shelves? How would this keep the (bullfrogs, snakes, snappers)
King
Fishers out of the steep sided pond? Steep sided plants ponds are not
attractive or natural looking.

I beg your pardon. The near edge of my pond goes vertical to the bottom,
http://www.darofamily.com/jeff/files...e/p1010064.jpg. And I think
it's perty damn nice pond. :)

The stream served a second purpose too. It was planted with milfoil and
other plants, so it acted as a vegetative filter. The whole stream had
pretty good daylight exposure for plant growth while the actual pond was
partially shaded. Actually, the only foreign species in the pond was a
muskrat that kept trying to build its nest in the pump house. Watching
the
herons catch the fish in the stream added a nice natural touch I
thought.

$$ How did you keep the fish in the stream? And what about those of us
who
don't have $10,000+ to call in pond builders or don't have the space for
huge streams?

I built my stream, which is about 5-6 feet long, with scraps of liner. :)


--
BV
Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com
http://www.iheartmypond.com
I'll be leaning on the bus stop post.

"~ Windsong ~" P@P wrote in message
...
snip
I think Kathy is just saying there are options that work. For example,
by
hooting, hollering, running, screaming, flapping my arms technique
(patent
pending) has worked very well.

## So you stand outside or have someone stand outside from sunup to
sundown? We can't afford to pay someone to stay out there guarding our
ponds 7 days a week. In summer we often go away for weekends.

No, but that's my point. We've done this I think a grand total of three
times, and Mr. Heron has not been back. No maybe that is because of the
weather, but maybe, just maybe it's because we made it an unfriendly place
for him. Or maybe MY heron hates idiots that shout at him. I dunno. I am not
saying I have found the magic cure for Herons, but I have kept that one
away.

As for the summer, we go away a lot as well. So far this has not been a
problem.

No fish loss from Heron so far. Your Heron
and Kingfishers may be more persistent then mine. I have many ponds in
yards
around me, so maybe they just other, quieter sources of food. Either
way,
my
solution has so far...worked very well.
snip

## See above. We can't afford to hire a guard and we're not always home.
When we are, we are not at the windows watching for fish predators. I
would run out doing the screaming and flapping, with the 3 dogs no less -
I
wrote about it here several years ago. At first it worked. They'd stay
away for a few days. Then, after awhile, a few weeks maybe, the herons
would fly into nearby trees until I went back inside. Within 15 minutes
they were fishing again. Yes, they were persistent. We often saw one
fishing in the ponds while another was up in a nearby tree. Or one was
behind the house fishing the kiddy pools. On one occasion there were
three
in our yard.

I've never seen such a Heron problem. You should probably net your pond, and
stop inviting Alfred Hitchcock over for dinner. :)

snip
True that. Last year, one of our Koi disappeared, plants knocked over
and
a
very racoon like scat was found on the edge of the pond. Dern Racoons.
My
neighbor even mentioned to me he saw a racoon walking down the street
towards my house. He must have heard about the buffet. My fish will swim
into your hand if you sit there, so they are certainly dinner options
for
animals.

## Because of the dogs raccoons don't come into our yard. We have them as
well as deer, possums, skunks, red and blue fox, huge flocks of turkeys,
hawks......

We've got hawks, falcons, racoons, skunks, fox, neighbor cats, my cat, my
dog, more frogs then I can count, and periodically a snake or two. Oh and
there was that kanagaroo looking mouse thing in Novemeber.


--
BV
Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com
http://www.iheartmypond.com
I'll be leaning on the bus stop post.

In rec.ponds ~ Windsong ~ P@p wrote:
"Cichlidiot" wrote in message
...
Here's a potentially radical idea. How about tolerating the birds and
designing a way for them to gravitate towards the far more replaceable
fish (and less emotionally attached) than the expensive koi? The best
design I've seen so far is a deep, vertically flat sided pond fed by a
long, shallow stream/waterfall at a public koi pond.

$$ Oh that would be lovely if we were rich. :-) Have you any idea what
something like that would cost? If we had that kind of money we could call
in some pond builders and redo both ponds. In fact replace them with one
huge 3 to 4,000 gallon pond. But where would I put the plants then if there
are no shelves? How would this keep the (bullfrogs, snakes, snappers) King
Fishers out of the steep sided pond? Steep sided plants ponds are not
attractive or natural looking.

To quote one of my favorite characters... "my, but we are in a mood
today". You do seem to be quite argumentative on this subject. I will make
this one attempt at reason, but any more such illogical replies such as
"if we were rich" will be summarily ignored.

The setup I described was not likely to have been expensive. It was part
of a public park that was set up and maintained completely by volunteers
and donations (and most of those volunteers were part of the 60+ club, so
I doubt they contributed much to the digging of the whole thing). I was
not privy to the costs, but given these facts I doubt it was that much
more expensive than your standard pond and waterfall. The stream was not
some huge river as you seem to be thinking it was, just about 15-20 feet
long and no more than a foot deep leading from the waterfalls to the pond.
The labor may have been an issue given the age of many of the volunteers,
but then it always is an issue when digging out a pond. The key here is to
think beforehand and plan. Just as it would not be wise to put the pond
where all the runoff collects, one should also consider the wildlife of
the area when designing the pond.

As for the attractiveness, the pond was quite attractive with its
surrounding landscaping. It used plants that were fine in deep water,
floating plants and in the case of the lilies, supported by columns too
narrow to allow much perching space. I'm sure a smaller heron could have
tried, but I never observed one bothering because the stream was far
easier to wade into.

The stream was
teaming with mosquito fish, crayfish and occasionally goldfish fry. The
herons almost always ate from there instead of attempting to get anything
in the main pond because they could wade into the stream and have pretty
easy pickings.

$$ What stream? How long was the stream,? Herons do not want 1/2" fry or
small crayfish. How did you keep mosquito fish in the stream and out of the
pond itself?

What stream? The one I keep describing here that you called expensive in
the previous paragraph. Do try to keep up dear. The fish were not forced
to remain anywhere. The mosquito fish and fry could also be found in the
main pond and waterfall pools as well as along the stream. Nothing
restricted their movement so they were found everywhere, although the ones
found in the pools were probably sucked up by the pump and deposited there
unless they did salmon impressions and jumped upstream. The crayfish did
tend to stay in the stream, probably didn't like the drop at the end of
the stream into the pond.

Loosing those kind of fish wasn't a big deal (although I
suppose losing too many mosquito fish could be a problem in mosquito
season, but it's easy to get more).

$$ Mosquitoes do not breed in streams (moving water). I can't believe you
managed to keep the fish in the stream for the herons, and out of your
pond. Did you have a net at the end of the stream? How large were the
mosquito fish?

The water was not fast moving, so there was plenty of opportunity for
mosquito larva to breed. Just as water based larva occasionally will get
into indoor tanks if breeding gnats or mosquitos make it indoors, the
movement of the stream was insufficient to take care of the larva in and
of itself. Refer to prior paragraph as for fish movement between stream
and pond.

The stream served a second purpose too. It was planted with milfoil and
other plants, so it acted as a vegetative filter. The whole stream had
pretty good daylight exposure for plant growth while the actual pond was
partially shaded. Actually, the only foreign species in the pond was a
muskrat that kept trying to build its nest in the pump house. Watching the
herons catch the fish in the stream added a nice natural touch I thought.

$$ How did you keep the fish in the stream? And what about those of us who
don't have $10,000+ to call in pond builders or don't have the space for
huge streams?

My, we are repetitive aren't we. This sort of language would get you
branded at the least excitable and at the worst a troll in another
newsgroup I visit. For the moment, I will leave it at "excitable" in my
mind, but the line is quickly becoming blurred.

We had taken the scarecrow down for the winter and today
a great blue heron visited the pond. Dh chased it off
before it had a chance to catch a fish. The weather is
warm today but that is supposed to change tonight.
Hopefully we'll have a nice layer of ice on the pond soon.
The koi are deep but the goldfish are still up near the surface.
--
Bonnie
NJ

"Benign Vanilla" wrote in message
...

"~ Windsong ~" P@P wrote in message
...
snip
Here's a potentially radical idea. How about tolerating the birds and
designing a way for them to gravitate towards the far more replaceable
fish (and less emotionally attached) than the expensive koi? The best
design I've seen so far is a deep, vertically flat sided pond fed by a
long, shallow stream/waterfall at a public koi pond.

$$ Oh that would be lovely if we were rich. :-) Have you any idea
what
something like that would cost? If we had that kind of money we could
call
in some pond builders and redo both ponds. In fact replace them with
one
huge 3 to 4,000 gallon pond. But where would I put the plants then if
there
are no shelves? How would this keep the (bullfrogs, snakes, snappers)
King
Fishers out of the steep sided pond? Steep sided plants ponds are not
attractive or natural looking.

I beg your pardon. The near edge of my pond goes vertical to the bottom,
http://www.darofamily.com/jeff/files...e/p1010064.jpg. And I
think
it's perty damn nice pond. :)

## Very nice pond. :-) My large pond has a plant shelf along 3 sides.

$$ How did you keep the fish in the stream? And what about those of us
who
don't have $10,000+ to call in pond builders or don't have the space for
huge streams?

I built my stream, which is about 5-6 feet long, with scraps of liner. :)

## Sounds nice. ;-)

--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
http://www.heartoftn.net/users/windsong/index.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Cichlidiot" wrote in message
...
In rec.ponds ~ Windsong ~ P@p wrote:
"Cichlidiot" wrote in message
...
Here's a potentially radical idea. How about tolerating the birds and
designing a way for them to gravitate towards the far more replaceable
fish (and less emotionally attached) than the expensive koi? The best
design I've seen so far is a deep, vertically flat sided pond fed by a
long, shallow stream/waterfall at a public koi pond.

To quote one of my favorite characters... "my, but we are in a mood
today". You do seem to be quite argumentative on this subject.

## Oh really? You're wrong. Do you always get so easily upset when someone
questions you?

I will make
this one attempt at reason, but any more such illogical replies such as
"if we were rich" will be summarily ignored.

## Ok, if we win the lottery or came into a large inheritance we can have
the experts come in and build your dream pond in our front yard.. After all
not everyone has an extra $10,000+ to spend on ponds as you seem to think
they do. Any such suggestions from you that they do will be summarily
ignored. :o)

The setup I described was not likely to have been expensive. It was part
of a public park that was set up and maintained completely by volunteers
and donations (and most of those volunteers were part of the 60+ club, so
I doubt they contributed much to the digging of the whole thing).

## Then why suggest this to a private pond owner? Not expensive for me?
Where would I get *donations* from? I would have to pay someone to come in
and redo the whole thing.

I was
not privy to the costs, but given these facts I doubt it was that much
more expensive than your standard pond and waterfall. The stream was not
some huge river as you seem to be thinking it was, just about 15-20 feet
long and no more than a foot deep leading from the waterfalls to the pond.

## And how much do they charge for your standard 2000 to 3000 gallon pond
and waterfall where you live? What did the liners alone cost? ONLY 15 to
20' stream? That "stream" liner marterial is another several hundred
dollars at least.

The labor may have been an issue given the age of many of the volunteers,

## Here again - where would we find all these volunteers? Paying for what
you suggest would easily run around $8,000 to $10,000 or more where we live.
The water pump alone for such a setup would be well into the $500 range.
And you call me argumentative? LOL!!! Not everyone on this list has that
kind of money.

but then it always is an issue when digging out a pond. The key here is to
think beforehand and plan. Just as it would not be wise to put the pond
where all the runoff collects, one should also consider the wildlife of
the area when designing the pond.

## Since I had never seen water snakes, bullfrogs, King Fishers or herons
closely (where we live) we never gave them a thought. We started before I
got online so all we had to go by were books.

$$ What stream? How long was the stream,? Herons do not want 1/2" fry
or
small crayfish. How did you keep mosquito fish in the stream and out of
the
pond itself?

What stream?

## The one you claimed was 15 to 20 feet long and full of fish for the
herons.

The one I keep describing here that you called expensive in
the previous paragraph. Do try to keep up dear. The fish were not forced
to remain anywhere. The mosquito fish and fry could also be found in the
main pond and waterfall pools as well as along the stream.

## Yes dear I am keeping up. You mentioned a stream, now you mention
waterfall pools. You're talking about a HUGE expensive system, not what
most people have in their yards.

Nothing
restricted their movement so they were found everywhere, although the ones
found in the pools were probably sucked up by the pump and deposited there
unless they did salmon impressions and jumped upstream.

## So they passed through the impeller without harm? Must be a new type of
pump.

$$ Mosquitoes do not breed in streams (moving water). I can't believe
you
managed to keep the fish in the stream for the herons, and out of your
pond. Did you have a net at the end of the stream? How large were the
mosquito fish?

The water was not fast moving, so there was plenty of opportunity for
mosquito larva to breed. Just as water based larva occasionally will get
into indoor tanks if breeding gnats or mosquitos make it indoors, the
movement of the stream was insufficient to take care of the larva in and
of itself. Refer to prior paragraph as for fish movement between stream
and pond.

## I see, so the water pump would suck them in and spit them back at the end
of the 15 to 20 foot stream that also fed waterfalls and pools.

$$ How did you keep the fish in the stream? And what about those of us
who
don't have $10,000+ to call in pond builders or don't have the space for
huge streams?

My, we are repetitive aren't we.

## My but you keep refusing to answer the question until now. I've seen
many ponds with streams in the past 9 years and never saw any of the fish go
UP the streams. They stayed in the pond itself whether there was a
waterfall or not.

This sort of language would get you
branded at the least excitable and at the worst a troll in another
newsgroup I visit.

## I couldn't care less about your other NGs since I am here. It's obvious
you think everyone has unlimited income to hire professionals to put in
ponds with 20' streams, special water pumps that do not harm fish,
waterfalls with pools, and then load them with mosquito fish to attract
herons away from their koi and GF. Would be nice if we all could afford
such a luxuries.... :o)

For the moment, I will leave it at "excitable" in my
mind, but the line is quickly becoming blurred.

## Killfile me! :o)
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"Eat Right, Exercise, Die Anyway."
~~~~~~~ }((((((o
"They laugh because I'm different, I laugh because they're all the same."
http://www.heartoftn.net/users/windsong/index.html
Completely FREE softwa
http://www.pricelessware.org/thelist/index.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 13:05:46 -0600, "~ Windsong ~" P@P wrote:

## Yes it does effect the looks of the pond. But so does those tall
gawky water sprayers

My motion sprinkler is neither gawky, nor tall. It only stands 18" high at
most, and is hardly noticable, as friends keep walking right in front of
it. Okay..... X-friends. ;o)

$$ Oh that would be lovely if we were rich. :-)

$$ And what about those of us who
don't have $10,000+ to call in pond builders or don't have the space for
huge streams?

Carol, Did it occur that maybe every suggestion or comment here is not
necessary directed at you? I'm sure someone out there in usenet might have
money like this, and quite frankly, I wish they'd send me some and get the
idea of ponds out of their silly heads! It is obvious by this thread that
they'll just ugly net covered eye sores at best and/or will break their
hearts with fish losses at worst. So you all using all upper case so you
know it is a plead for money STOP PUTTING IN PONDS AND WASTING MONEY, SEND
IT TO ME! That's jjspondatgocougs.wsu.edu for direct contact on where to
send your dough. ;o)

In conclusion I think everyone here will agree that Carol I'm in the
Heron's Book To Fine Dining Windsong should always keep a net on her
ponds, no doubt about it. :o)

The rest of us can probably try other things with success, knowing nets are
always an option. ~ jan


~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

"Benign Vanilla" wrote in message
...

"~ Windsong ~" P@P wrote in message
...
snip
I think Kathy is just saying there are options that work. For example,
by
hooting, hollering, running, screaming, flapping my arms technique
(patent
pending) has worked very well.

## So you stand outside or have someone stand outside from sunup to
sundown? We can't afford to pay someone to stay out there guarding our
ponds 7 days a week. In summer we often go away for weekends.
============
No, but that's my point. We've done this I think a grand total of three
times, and Mr. Heron has not been back. No maybe that is because of the
weather, but maybe, just maybe it's because we made it an unfriendly place
for him.

## I see. I did the same thing with a broom and 3 dogs and the damn herons
would simply fly up into the nearby trees and wait for me to go bake in the
house. You are very fortunate to have scared them off in only 3 tries.

Or maybe MY heron hates idiots that shout at him. I dunno. I am not
saying I have found the magic cure for Herons, but I have kept that one
away.
As for the summer, we go away a lot as well. So far this has not been a
problem.

## Then you must have very few herons where you live.

I've never seen such a Heron problem. You should probably net your pond,
and
stop inviting Alfred Hitchcock over for dinner. :)

## I never knew this was so unusual. So many people I knew with pondsa also
had heron problems. But we live about 1/2 mile from Percy Priest Lake.
I've learned there are loads of herons and cranes there. Also canadian
geese and all kinds of ducks.

We've got hawks, falcons, racoons, skunks, fox, neighbor cats, my cat, my
dog, more frogs then I can count, and periodically a snake or two. Oh and
there was that kanagaroo looking mouse thing in Novemeber.

## We have neighbor's cats here as well, but we never saw them trying to
catch fish or even near the ponds.
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"Eat Right, Exercise, Die Anyway."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 13:05:46 -0600, "~ Windsong ~" P@P wrote:

## Yes it does effect the looks of the pond. But so does those tall
gawky water sprayers

My motion sprinkler is neither gawky, nor tall. It only stands 18" high at
most, and is hardly noticable, as friends keep walking right in front of
it. Okay..... X-friends. ;o)

## LOL!! :-D

Carol, Did it occur that maybe every suggestion or comment here is not
necessary directed at you?

## I thought it was,... silly me. :-))

I'm sure someone out there in usenet might have
money like this, and quite frankly, I wish they'd send me some and get the
idea of ponds out of their silly heads!

## With my husband semi-retired we can't invest any more money in ponds. I
wish we could. I would love to have one 3000 gallon pond rather then the 2
I have.

It is obvious by this thread that
they'll just ugly net covered eye sores at best and/or will break their
hearts with fish losses at worst. So you all using all upper case so you
know it is a plead for money STOP PUTTING IN PONDS AND WASTING MONEY,
SEND
IT TO ME! That's jjspondatgocougs.wsu.edu for direct contact on where to
send your dough. ;o)

## If they send you too much you can split it with me.

In conclusion I think everyone here will agree that Carol I'm in the
Heron's Book To Fine Dining Windsong should always keep a net on her
ponds, no doubt about it. :o)

## Only if I want to keep GF and koi.

The rest of us can probably try other things with success, knowing nets
are
always an option. ~ jan

--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"Eat Right, Exercise, Die Anyway."
~~~~~~~ }((((((o
"They laugh because I'm different, I laugh because they're all the same."
http://www.heartoftn.net/users/windsong/index.html
Completely FREE softwa
http://www.pricelessware.org/thelist/index.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

yet another with a fast kill file finger! The only requirement to get
killl filed is dissagree with the so called self professed pond gods /
goddesses. There is no discussion of things in these forums, its all
one sided Windsong, remember that, dissagree and you get rapped hard
and kill filed............



On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 21:42:59 -0600, "~ Windsong ~" P@P wrote:

===
==="Cichlidiot" wrote in message
...
=== In rec.ponds ~ Windsong ~ P@p wrote:
=== "Cichlidiot" wrote in message
=== ...
=== Here's a potentially radical idea. How about tolerating the birds and
=== designing a way for them to gravitate towards the far more replaceable
=== fish (and less emotionally attached) than the expensive koi? The best
=== design I've seen so far is a deep, vertically flat sided pond fed by a
=== long, shallow stream/waterfall at a public koi pond.
===
=== To quote one of my favorite characters... "my, but we are in a mood
=== today". You do seem to be quite argumentative on this subject.
===
===## Oh really? You're wrong. Do you always get so easily upset when someone
===questions you?
===
===I will make
=== this one attempt at reason, but any more such illogical replies such as
=== "if we were rich" will be summarily ignored.
===
===## Ok, if we win the lottery or came into a large inheritance we can have
===the experts come in and build your dream pond in our front yard.. After all
===not everyone has an extra $10,000+ to spend on ponds as you seem to think
===they do. Any such suggestions from you that they do will be summarily
===ignored. :o)
===
=== The setup I described was not likely to have been expensive. It was part
=== of a public park that was set up and maintained completely by volunteers
=== and donations (and most of those volunteers were part of the 60+ club, so
=== I doubt they contributed much to the digging of the whole thing).
===
===## Then why suggest this to a private pond owner? Not expensive for me?
===Where would I get *donations* from? I would have to pay someone to come in
===and redo the whole thing.
===
===I was
=== not privy to the costs, but given these facts I doubt it was that much
=== more expensive than your standard pond and waterfall. The stream was not
=== some huge river as you seem to be thinking it was, just about 15-20 feet
=== long and no more than a foot deep leading from the waterfalls to the pond.
===
===## And how much do they charge for your standard 2000 to 3000 gallon pond
===and waterfall where you live? What did the liners alone cost? ONLY 15 to
===20' stream? That "stream" liner marterial is another several hundred
===dollars at least.
===
=== The labor may have been an issue given the age of many of the volunteers,
===
===## Here again - where would we find all these volunteers? Paying for what
===you suggest would easily run around $8,000 to $10,000 or more where we live.
===The water pump alone for such a setup would be well into the $500 range.
===And you call me argumentative? LOL!!! Not everyone on this list has that
===kind of money.
===
=== but then it always is an issue when digging out a pond. The key here is to
=== think beforehand and plan. Just as it would not be wise to put the pond
=== where all the runoff collects, one should also consider the wildlife of
=== the area when designing the pond.
===
===## Since I had never seen water snakes, bullfrogs, King Fishers or herons
===closely (where we live) we never gave them a thought. We started before I
===got online so all we had to go by were books.
===
=== $$ What stream? How long was the stream,? Herons do not want 1/2" fry
===or
=== small crayfish. How did you keep mosquito fish in the stream and out of
===the
=== pond itself?
===
=== What stream?
===
===## The one you claimed was 15 to 20 feet long and full of fish for the
===herons.
===
===The one I keep describing here that you called expensive in
=== the previous paragraph. Do try to keep up dear. The fish were not forced
=== to remain anywhere. The mosquito fish and fry could also be found in the
=== main pond and waterfall pools as well as along the stream.
===
===## Yes dear I am keeping up. You mentioned a stream, now you mention
===waterfall pools. You're talking about a HUGE expensive system, not what
===most people have in their yards.
===
===Nothing
=== restricted their movement so they were found everywhere, although the ones
=== found in the pools were probably sucked up by the pump and deposited there
=== unless they did salmon impressions and jumped upstream.
===
===## So they passed through the impeller without harm? Must be a new type of
===pump.
===
=== $$ Mosquitoes do not breed in streams (moving water). I can't believe
===you
=== managed to keep the fish in the stream for the herons, and out of your
=== pond. Did you have a net at the end of the stream? How large were the
=== mosquito fish?
===
=== The water was not fast moving, so there was plenty of opportunity for
=== mosquito larva to breed. Just as water based larva occasionally will get
=== into indoor tanks if breeding gnats or mosquitos make it indoors, the
=== movement of the stream was insufficient to take care of the larva in and
=== of itself. Refer to prior paragraph as for fish movement between stream
=== and pond.
===
===## I see, so the water pump would suck them in and spit them back at the end
===of the 15 to 20 foot stream that also fed waterfalls and pools.
===
=== $$ How did you keep the fish in the stream? And what about those of us
===who
=== don't have $10,000+ to call in pond builders or don't have the space for
=== huge streams?
===
=== My, we are repetitive aren't we.
===
===## My but you keep refusing to answer the question until now. I've seen
===many ponds with streams in the past 9 years and never saw any of the fish go
===UP the streams. They stayed in the pond itself whether there was a
===waterfall or not.
===
===This sort of language would get you
=== branded at the least excitable and at the worst a troll in another
=== newsgroup I visit.
===
===## I couldn't care less about your other NGs since I am here. It's obvious
===you think everyone has unlimited income to hire professionals to put in
===ponds with 20' streams, special water pumps that do not harm fish,
===waterfalls with pools, and then load them with mosquito fish to attract
===herons away from their koi and GF. Would be nice if we all could afford
===such a luxuries.... :o)
===
===For the moment, I will leave it at "excitable" in my
=== mind, but the line is quickly becoming blurred.
===
===## Killfile me! :o)


REMEMBER: "This is worth repeating for benefit of al newbies!
Jo Ann asked Dr. Sooooooooooooooooolow to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired from
helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is best for
diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject. Get your fish at Dandy Orandas
Dandy Orandas Dandy Orandas........you guys got that DANDY ORANDAS

I like Herons and have rescued them and would hate to see one killed,
but accidents can happen. I'm just wondering what the authorities feel
about the natural instincts of certain breeds of dogs?
snip

I suspect you'd be in no trouble at all. Your dog in your yard? Hardly a
crime. Now, if you shot the bird and held it down for spot to kill, that
might be an issue.

I'd imagine that you are legally responsible for everything your dog does.

I think the penalty might be different between dog kill and gun kill
but both would be guilty.

"Derek Broughton" wrote in message
...

Roy's not a troll. Roy's an abusive little child who needs to have his
Internet privileges revoked.
===========================
Like a few of the nasty arrogant people on rec.ponds who demanded my service
be revoked? The only reason I have ever contacted someone's ISP was for
spam abuse - and never demanded their service be nuked. Why not just
by-pass the posts of people you don't like?
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"Due to financial crisis the light at the end
of the tunnel is switched off."
~~~~~~~
Completely FREE softwa
http://www.pricelessware.org/thelist/index.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Roy" wrote in message
...

yet another with a fast kill file finger! The only requirement to get
killl filed is dissagree with the so called self professed pond gods /
goddesses. There is no discussion of things in these forums, its all
one sided Windsong, remember that, dissagree and you get rapped hard
and kill filed............
======================
That's life I guess. Personally, I couldn't care less who killfiles me.
:-)
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"Due to financial crisis the light at the end
of the tunnel is switched off."
~~~~~~~ }((((((o
http://www.heartoftn.net/users/windsong/index.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On or about 11 Jan 2005 18:20:04 -0800, "kathy" wrote
something like:

My labradors and I were able to scare a heron away
over a two day period.

"Be vewwy vewwy qwi-yet, boys, and we can sneak up on the nasty boid
in a couple of days!"
--
Crashj

On or about Wed, 12 Jan 2005 19:16:41 +0000 (UTC), Cichlidiot
wrote something like:

In rec.ponds kathy wrote:
My labradors and I were able to scare a heron away
over a two day period.

Don't discount the power of dogs. I saw on that Animal Planet "dog jobs"
(or maybe it was the breed profile, forget exactly) show that a fish
breeder in FL uses trained dogs to scare away migratory birds.

The dogs were also under constant
supervision by a handler

So what did the handler do? Scare off the birds!
--
Crashj

On or about Wed, 12 Jan 2005 00:09:25 -0600, Katra
wrote something like:

In article ,
~ jan JJsPond.us wrote:

Can anyone help?

I have a Heron that comes to the pond every day.

Black PVC pipe for hides? The fish use that?

Oh, an all around excellent idea. I have a big piece at the bottom of
the pond as a Winter hidey-hole. They seem to like to hide in it when
it gets really cold. The water in there does not circulate much at
all, and it is more comfortable and quiet there. I guess. Plus - no
herons.
--
Crashj

My wife called me at work the other day to ask what this big white bird
was in our backyard. I asked if it was by the bond. She said yes, and I
said, "That would be a heron and it's probably dining on our goldfish."
Then she said that it had already flown away. A few minutes later she
called me back and said there were only four fish left. When I got back
late that afternoon I could see that most of the fish were hiding in the
black PVC pipe at the bottom of the pond.
I'm not sure how many the heron got, but I don't think it was many, as
I'm not sure exactly how many there were before. It didn't get too many,
though.
I've since replaced the PVC pipe with clay pipe. It's heavier.


"Crashj" wrote in message
...
On or about Wed, 12 Jan 2005 00:09:25 -0600, Katra
wrote something like:

In article ,
~ jan JJsPond.us wrote:

Can anyone help?

I have a Heron that comes to the pond every day.

Black PVC pipe for hides? The fish use that?

Oh, an all around excellent idea. I have a big piece at the bottom of
the pond as a Winter hidey-hole. They seem to like to hide in it when
it gets really cold. The water in there does not circulate much at
all, and it is more comfortable and quiet there. I guess. Plus - no
herons.
--
Crashj

In article ,
Andrew Burgess wrote:

I like Herons and have rescued them and would hate to see one killed,
but accidents can happen. I'm just wondering what the authorities feel
about the natural instincts of certain breeds of dogs?
snip

I suspect you'd be in no trouble at all. Your dog in your yard? Hardly a
crime. Now, if you shot the bird and held it down for spot to kill, that
might be an issue.

I'd imagine that you are legally responsible for everything your dog does.

I think the penalty might be different between dog kill and gun kill
but both would be guilty.


Hmmmmm... Seems like I'm going to have to call parks and wildlife to get
an answer to this one. ;-)
--
K.

Sprout the MungBean to reply

"I don't like to commit myself about heaven and hell‹you
see, I have friends in both places." --Mark Twain

~ Windsong ~ wrote:


"Derek Broughton" wrote in message
...

Roy's not a troll. Roy's an abusive little child who needs to have his
Internet privileges revoked.
===========================
Like a few of the nasty arrogant people on rec.ponds who demanded my
service
be revoked? The only reason I have ever contacted someone's ISP was for
spam abuse - and never demanded their service be nuked. Why not just
by-pass the posts of people you don't like?

Carol, I have no trouble bypassing ignorant posters. However, forging your
headers to say NedraSucks goes beyond both good taste and his ISP's terms
of service. I'm happy to forward abusive email and news postings to an
ISP. If nasty arrogant people demanded your service be revoked (it must
have been while I was away), there are only three possible outcomes: they
were ignored by your ISP - because you didn't violate your TOS; you lost
your service _because_ you violated your TOS; or you lost your service
because your ISP was too ignorant to properly investigate - in which case
you needed a better ISP anyway.
--
derek

The heron that visited my pond stood on the pvc and kicked it around
until the fish came out. My upgrade....concrete blocks. I spray
painted 2 of them black and set them side by side. Peck-away heron.
Unfortunately this only works with some fish. Most fish swim too slow
and don't hide, therefore will be eaten. The best way to end this is
to make the pond deeper. If the water is deeper than their legs are
long they will not go in. The fish would have to swim right up to the
edge to get eaten.

Good Luck