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Rose anenome splitting
PZ the are not aggressive ( in regards to feeding on tanks mates, which is really not
aggression) in captivity most of the time. Most that have lions will tell you they are not aggressive at all but quite peaceful. That does not mean always. . Lions are very peaceful, useless some fish or shrimp ****es it off. The pretty much just sit and mind their own business. Many people have put lions in tanks only to loose tanks mates as a food item. If you make the lion happy it pretty much leaves all other fish and inverts alone. Please lets not get started on words again but a lion eating fish and shrimp, is not aggression or aggressive behavior, it is just eating, feeding its self :-). Matter of fact one needs to be careful with some fish, which are aggressive and pick on lions, usually the tail and large side fins, often with the lion still showing no signs of aggression. -- Boomer If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up Former US Army Bomb Technician (EOD) Member; IABTI, NATEODA, WEODF, ISEE & IPS Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php Want to See More ! The Coral Realm http://www.coralrealm.com "Pszemol" wrote in message ... : "AverageSchmuck" wrote in message ... : My assumption on what he/she means is that most people beleive that : Lionfish will eat any and all shrimp, etc placed in tank. But I have : learned that lionfish are easier trained than my Basenji (dog). : Extremely driven by stomach so very easy to setup a situation that is : rewarding to the fish. However it is my assumption here. : : Well, I was asking before and expressing my surprise just : because as most people I believed it is very aggressive : fish which eats any other fish in the tank... : In fact I have seen videos of other scorpion fish hunting : in the nauture and it was impressive how wide their mouths : open and suck the prey in an instant... : I have never own lionfish myself (and I am not really attracted : so much to such aggressive fish) so I have learned something : new today... |
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Well, Psz
I had a very long posted page ready to post, basically explaining on this issue why you do not know what you are talking about, with many examples. When it comes to animal behavior you are lost, not to mention how big that whole is you dug yourself with those remarks. I went to hit a key and the whole post ended up a blank page ( not the first time either :-( ). It took about an half hour and I'm not about to redue it, so I'm going got drop the subject, unless you want to continue on. If you read this your tune would change, not to mention some of the videos and pic on the clowns, some of which have been on TV Behavior of Symbiotic Fishes and Sea Anemones Richard N. Mariscal Department of Biological Science Florida Sate University "Why are you so dedicated to prove it is not feeding " No, I'm not, you are the one determined to prove that the are actually are feeing the anemone. I made a remark that they are really not feeding the anemone , an intentional act. You then went ballistic. Take note that clowns bring back objects, both inorganic and organic to their anemone. If you gave your idea in a animal behavior class, based on you observation, you would get at least a D if not an F. All studies and research that have been done on the subject disagree with you. I raised clowns for almost 30 yeas with and without anemones. And you are a whole WOW 2 years But I can not let this slide by "I know what I have seen Seeing and knowing are not the same thing. "I do not observe this behaviour in my tank." This means nothing "I know what I have seen. I am not looking for "intentions" "It clearly shows to me the food brought to the anemone was intended for the anemone, not for themselves." So there it is, you just stated it is intended, make up your mind. Your whole post and you are just as confusing as some clowns "My interpretation is that clowns feel that something is not right with this food and it should be removed" I feel out of my chair I was laughing so hard. They now know what the anemone should and should not eat. Then why are there pics and videos of clowns bringing back to their anemone things they can not eat like sticks, wood and plastic. THE END -- Boomer If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up Former US Army Bomb Technician (EOD) Member; IABTI, NATEODA, WEODF, ISEE & IPS Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php Want to See More ! The Coral Realm http://www.coralrealm.com "Pszemol" wrote in message ... : "Boomer" wrote in message ... : You have lost it and are contradicting yourself : : LOL. : Maybe we just do not understand terms same way, like with the "carpet anemone"? : : "The effect of their actions in all 3 case studies will be "feeding their host". : consciously or subconsciously, they do" : : "The fact is that it is feeding my anemone and by : feeding I understand a simple act of puting food for the anemone to eat" : : That is an act of intention, a deliberate act, it is feeding the anemone, in your way if : thinkin', like a Robin is feeding its young a worm. : : To be honest, I am not sure if robin "knows" it is feeding its young : any more than a clownfish feeding its host anemone... : : Please look up the words feeding and fed. : : Sure, no problem: : http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=feeding : : feedv. fed, (fd) feed.ing, feeds : : To give food to; supply with nourishment: feed the children. : To provide as food or nourishment: fed fish to the cat. : : To serve as food for: The turkey is large enough to feed a dozen. : To produce food for: The valley feeds an entire county. : : To provide for consumption, utilization, or operation: : feed logs to a fire; feed data into a computer. : To supply with something essential for growth, maintenance, or operation: : Melting snow feeds the reservoirs. : To distribute (a local radio or television broadcast) to a larger audience : or group of receivers by way of a network or satellite. : : I do not see in this dictionary any special emphasise on the intentions. : I hope you do not believe the melting snow *intentionally* feeds the reservoirs? : : "So I am not understanding what are you talking about." : : That is obvious and that you do not know what you are talking about. : : LOL. : I know what I am talking about. I have a pair of maroon clowns in : a large BTA and have observed them a lot for last couple of years. : I know what they are doing, when they are satisfied with what they : have done and when not and they want to fix what did not worked well. : : "Yes, fish is not very inteligent,........, so in the aquarium it might asume something : else for its home and continue feeding it, like it would do in nature" : : Oh come on no that is nonsense : : Why ? Do you think fish can recognise anemone from a leather coral ? : I do not know about your fish, but mine did not study zoology :-))) : : That shows you do not know what you are talking about, buy want : to argue on it. I also once believed that and the same for feeding : its anemone. Observation in aquariums and in the wild have shown : this to be false. : : I know what I have seen. I am not looking for "intentions", : I am looking at effective result of fish actions... : : Clowns will also, at times, remove food from the anemone that it has captured and is : trying eat. What are you going to claim now, that the clown is feeding the water column. : : I have seen it many times. Do you know when they do it ? : When anemone is too slow to engulf, usually too large morsel. : My interpretation is that clowns feel that something is not : right with this food and it should be removed... : Also, they "defend" their home from floating item like : macroalgae branch pushing it away from the anemone... : : Clowns also steal food captured by the anemone and eat it. : Are you now going to claim the anemone captured the food to : feed the clown. : : No, my clownfish always eat first :-) They feed anemone only : larger pieces they are not able to eat themselves :-) : Also, when anemone is not grasping food they REPEAT atempt : showing they are not satisfied with the results... : When anemone is properly attaching to the food clowns : are "satisfied" with the feeding attempt... They let the : anemone eat sitting in the nearby not interested with food. : It clearly shows to me the food brought to the anemone was : intended for the anemone, not for themselves. : : Clowns have also been filmed in the wild luring fish into : the anemone. Do think that is an intentional act of trying : to feed the anemone ? : : If you are talking about a typical lounching attacks, than : I have seen it. The fish launches attack and retreats to : the anemone for selfdefense. : : Wake up PZ. A clown is just bring back a piece of food : back to its safe home where it can eat it. : : My fish eats smaller pieces on the spot, where it finds it. : It brings back to the anemone ONLY larger pieces which : it cannot fit properly in its own mouth. : : It tests with a hosted anemone, the fish will bring back the food to : the anemone, often where it does not get a chance to eat it. In the same test, where the : anemone was then removed, the clown, after searching the tank for its anemone and could : not find it, brought the food back to its prior home, a lift tube, where it ate the food. : : I do not observe this behaviour in my tank. : : At time you will actually see the clown trying to eat the food it has been brought back. : Did you know and that it has been repeatedly shown, that clowns at times will pick up ANY : large object in the near by water column they can carrier and bring it back to their home, : be it an anemone or rock. : : Well, I have not seen this. Must be mine are more intelligent ;-) : I have seen them dragging larger clump of caulerpa away from : anemone during feedings of tangs. : : Clowns will also bring back food to it anemone even though the : anemone shut down and can not eat .The food /object just then floats : to the surface, often with the clown just bringing it back, only : to float to he surface again. : : Yes, this I have observed. Clowns are very confused then... : They repeat multiple times the process until the food is : eaten by other fish. : : It is a simple case, the clown is bringing back the food to : its home, where it is safe to eat, often with the anemone : eating the food. That is NOT the clown feeding the anemone. : : How to explain fish not eating food they bring to the host? : This is what I see in my tank. Anemone gets larger pieces, : the only ones fish are unable to eat. : : Does the anemone get a meal, yes, did the clown feed it ........NO. : : Why are you so dedicated to prove it is not feeding ? : Let it go. We do not argue about clowns intentions : but the results of their actions. If you do not want : to call it feeding - fine... but for me it is feeding. : : If your cat brings in a dead mouse and drops : it near your dog is the cat feeding the dog. : : Never had a dog. Would dog eat the mouse in similar situation? : If so, I am sure you can say "cat fed the mouse to the dog". : Why not? : : You need to do some research and reading, : there are to many myths in this hobby. If you : can find it here is a great start : : I am not really so concerned with the clownfish intentions. : I know that effectivelly, they PROVIDE food to the anemone. : I had to feed it when clowns were not around. : Now I do not have to do it. Clowns do it for me. : The result is that the anemone is fed. Why? What for? : I leave this for scientists... : : Behavior of Symbiotic Fishes and Sea Anemones : : Richard N. Mariscal : Department of Biological Science : Florida Sate University : : One people make remarks about the clown feeding their anemone and 99 % of the time they : think of it as " my anemone needs to eat so I'll go get him some food and feed him" , like : a Robin feeds it young . That is not what is taking place and has been my whole point. : : How much do you know birds? How well their brains are developed ? : Do they realize the youngs are their offspring which needs to be fed? : Or maybe they are mesmerized with their gaping mouths and they have : natural reflex to put "something" in there to make them shut up ? : : The anemone is getting food from the clown but the clown is not being fed : by the clown and the clown is NOT feeding the anemone and that is a difference. : : Something is wrong in this sentence... : : Many animals bring back food to a safe place to eat and that : is all that is going on here, nothing else. : : I understand you do not want to call it feeding... : But I do not see even small problem with calling this feeding :-) : I judge the actions by the results, not by the intentions. : If the anemone is being provided food items by fish it would : normally not get, than the anemone IS being fed by the fish. : "Providing food to be eaten" is simply called feeding in my dictionary. : |
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OK...
Let's go back a little to your request to look into a dictionary to find a proper meaning for the word "feeding". I have checked my dictionary, found this definition, and there was nothing there I can find about intentions... Feeding was defined as a simple act of providing food, providing nourishment, which is happening in my tank. Could you please provide me with a definition of the "feeding" from the dictionary which you found elaborating on intentions ? Maybe your understanding of the word "feeding" is different than the one which can be found in an English Dictionary? :-))) Thank you. p.s. I am very calm, far far away from "going balistic" I am not sure where are you getting this idea from :-))) |
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Psz
You are quite aware of what is meant by the term of feeding by your own posts on this issues and what others mean in term feeding the anemone Go back and read them. Stop the spinning. You dug yourself a hole and are looking for a way out. You are trying to pull out all angles to make you look right and trying to rephrase yourself, to look better. Hole digging. You contradict your own self. ""It clearly shows to me the food brought to the anemone was intended for the anemone, not for themselves"....................................... .F in animal behavior for sure Conclusion the clown is intentionally feeding the anemone ..PERIOD. The clown KNOWS it is feeding the anemone. The clown brain is telling him "their is a piece of food and I will bring it back to my anemone because he is hungry, so I need to feed him. So they must also be feeding the anemone sticks, wood, plastic, etc. and other objects.... LOL That speaks it all and for all to see -- Boomer If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up Former US Army Bomb Technician (EOD) Member; IABTI, NATEODA, WEODF, ISEE & IPS Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php Want to See More ! The Coral Realm http://www.coralrealm.com "Pszemol" wrote in message ... : OK... : : Let's go back a little to your request to look into a dictionary : to find a proper meaning for the word "feeding". : : I have checked my dictionary, found this definition, : and there was nothing there I can find about intentions... : Feeding was defined as a simple act of providing food, : providing nourishment, which is happening in my tank. : : Could you please provide me with a definition of the "feeding" : from the dictionary which you found elaborating on intentions ? : : Maybe your understanding of the word "feeding" is different : than the one which can be found in an English Dictionary? :-))) : : Thank you. : : p.s. I am very calm, far far away from "going balistic" : I am not sure where are you getting this idea from :-))) |
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"Boomer" wrote in message ...
You are quite aware of what is meant by the term of feeding by your own posts on this issues and what others mean in term feeding the anemone Go back and read them. Stop the spinning. You dug yourself a hole and are looking for a way out. You are trying to pull out all angles to make you look right and trying to rephrase yourself, to look better. Hole digging. You contradict your own self. Do not try to read between the lines... please :-) I just asked you for YOUR definition of "feeding". What is wrong about it ? A definition which whould NOT MATCH to clownfish behaviour I observe in my tank. ""It clearly shows to me the food brought to the anemone was intended for the anemone, not for themselves"....................................... .F in animal behavior for sure Please relax... There is no contradiction here. We just simply misunderstood each other. Let me explain: I see intention, but also I know the intention is not needed to accept an action as feeding. Exactly as in the example from the dictionary I have quoted: "Melting snow feeds the reservoirs." Melting snow has not intended to feed the reservoirs, do you agree ? :-)) What I see in my tank LOOKS TO ME LIKE *intentional* feeding. I know that not everything is what it looks like, so I am ready to agree with you about clowns intentions are different... :-) But... Feeding in the dictionary has a broader meaning and DOES NOT REQUIRE intention in the word definition itself. So I do not see a reason which could prevent calling this action feeding. You cannot accept even a broader term "feeding" to the action observed, even if I agree with you that clowns MIGHT be not aware they are, in fact, feeding their host... So, it looks to me as intentional feeding, but not knowing what is boiling in the little fish's brain I agree not to argue about fish intentions here. Putting intentions aside, it is still "feeding" in the broader meaning similar to unintended "feeding" of the reservoirs by the melting snow... At this moment you are not agruing with me, you argue with a dictionary :-) Conclusion the clown is intentionally feeding the anemone ..PERIOD. The clown KNOWS it is feeding the anemone. The clown brain is telling him "their is a piece of food and I will bring it back to my anemone because he is hungry, so I need to feed him. This is exactly how it looks to me, but (of course) it could be false impression and I have already agreed with you that this *could be* unintentional behaviour. The fact is that the anemone is being fed, and the clown is doing this job of feeding (intentionally or not...), so I do not see the reason to not call this process "feeding" based on the dictionary definition I know. You are more than welcome to provide a better definition of this word. So they must also be feeding the anemone sticks, wood, plastic, etc. and other objects.... LOL That speaks it all and for all to see I admire some scientists for being so sure they know what animal thinks about and what its intentions are... Knowing how hard it is to understand each other sometimes, between human beings, using the same language - understanding little animals and being sure about their intentions based simply on observation of their behaviour must be very, very hard... But still some of them do not leave any room for doubt... Amazing! |
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Hello: I had a lion many years ago and I bought minnows at the lFS and I
would keep them in a small 10 gal and feed him every other day. The fun was watching him stalk the minnow and suck him in. You ought to try it once, its fun. I also fed a anemone minnows once in awhile and the clown would try to steel it from the anemone. I don't remember what brand though. Bill "AverageSchmuck" wrote in message ... The above that Boomer stated I observe everytime I feed my fish because I do not currently have an anemone my maroon clown has found a dug out spot in the rock formation which he defends and is constantly keeping clean. I Feed my lionfish shrimp parts and scallops mostly abd wekk the clown has shown a liking to these also so he will steal them off the stick if the lionfish is slow to get their. Guess where he takes it right to his hole every single time. |
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Hi again. I forgot that the lion did hang like a bat when resting. Good
memories.Bill "AverageSchmuck" wrote in message ... To be perfectly honest Lionfish are extremely predictable fish. They hide absolutely nothing about their "Fight or Flight Response" 99% of the time they will flight. Only time I have ever seen the lionfish aggresive towards fish is when they swim on top of him while he is in a resting state in corner of tank, hanging from tail like a bat and that is pretty much he swims in a circular motion and they leave. As soon as he feels secure again he returns to his bat in the belfry position. Besides that their were only 2 other occasions where he was aggressive and both well was me. 1. I had to get him some sort of nutrients when he dislocated his jaw on top of increasing nutrients in water from additives that contain iodine I would inject pureed fish parts into is mouth with a turkey baster. Well he hates that baster and yes tries to spine it. I think its funny but it was for his own good. 2. I over thought the addition of a goby to tank. I was hoping that the goby was fast enough to out swim him. Well gobies are fast but not fast enough. I knew better but second guessed myself. Now the Yellow tang, Clown and Limbahi Cromus. Those 3 fish are much more aggressive than the lion by far. The Cromus is just insane he will taunt any fish in tank. Now the Maroon clown and yellow tang both have defensive/attack abilities. Clown with cheek spikes and yellow tang with tail bones that are venomous. All 3 of those fish are by far more aggressive and more territoral than the lion fish. Keep in mind all the fish in tank are adult fish. The lion is about 7 - 8 inches in length. Clown probably about 3-4 inches. tang easily 4-5 inches and cromus slighly smaller than clown. I also have a very healthy clean crew with hermits snails and stars and no problems at all. Say whatever you like about that combo of fish I was just stating my observations of their behaviors and interaction with one another. But back to the converstion. Yes I have observed the exact behavior that Rock described in his posts with my Maroon clown. He guards that hole in rock formation and cleans it very well mind you. I used to bury it everytime he carved it out cause it takes my Sand bed below 1inch in that spot with him carving it out but he quickly fixs my work on that one so I just let him have the spot and I am gonna add more sand bed to an improved sump as I can afford it. He does bring food to his hole all the time. I know if I drop a shrimp part or he steals it wait about 10 min come back to remove cause he will find it and hide it in that hole every single time. Gosh I hope he is not feeding my tonga rock their. |
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Although I was very watchful while I was cleaning the tank, I always knew
where he was. I did not want to run into one of the dorsal fin spikes and find out how venemouse thay are. Bill "Boomer" wrote in message ... PZ the are not aggressive ( in regards to feeding on tanks mates, which is really not aggression) in captivity most of the time. Most that have lions will tell you they are not aggressive at all but quite peaceful. That does not mean always. . Lions are very peaceful, useless some fish or shrimp ****es it off. The pretty much just sit and mind their own business. Many people have put lions in tanks only to loose tanks mates as a food item. If you make the lion happy it pretty much leaves all other fish and inverts alone. Please lets not get started on words again but a lion eating fish and shrimp, is not aggression or aggressive behavior, it is just eating, feeding its self :-). Matter of fact one needs to be careful with some fish, which are aggressive and pick on lions, usually the tail and large side fins, often with the lion still showing no signs of aggression. -- Boomer If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up Former US Army Bomb Technician (EOD) Member; IABTI, NATEODA, WEODF, ISEE & IPS Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php Want to See More ! The Coral Realm http://www.coralrealm.com "Pszemol" wrote in message ... : "AverageSchmuck" wrote in message ... : My assumption on what he/she means is that most people beleive that : Lionfish will eat any and all shrimp, etc placed in tank. But I have : learned that lionfish are easier trained than my Basenji (dog). : Extremely driven by stomach so very easy to setup a situation that is : rewarding to the fish. However it is my assumption here. : : Well, I was asking before and expressing my surprise just : because as most people I believed it is very aggressive : fish which eats any other fish in the tank... : In fact I have seen videos of other scorpion fish hunting : in the nauture and it was impressive how wide their mouths : open and suck the prey in an instant... : I have never own lionfish myself (and I am not really attracted : so much to such aggressive fish) so I have learned something : new today... |
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There is no sense in replying ay more period
-- Boomer If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up Former US Army Bomb Technician (EOD) Member; IABTI, NATEODA, WEODF, ISEE & IPS Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php Want to See More ! The Coral Realm http://www.coralrealm.com "Pszemol" wrote in message ... : "Boomer" wrote in message ... : You are quite aware of what is meant by the term of feeding by your own posts on this : issues and what others mean in term feeding the anemone Go back and read them. Stop the : spinning. You dug yourself a hole and are looking for a way out. You are trying to pull : out all angles to make you look right and trying to rephrase yourself, to look better. : Hole digging. You contradict your own self. : : Do not try to read between the lines... please :-) : I just asked you for YOUR definition of "feeding". What is wrong about it ? : A definition which whould NOT MATCH to clownfish behaviour I observe in my tank. : : ""It clearly shows to me the food brought to the anemone was : intended for the anemone, not for themselves"....................................... .F in : animal behavior for sure : : Please relax... : There is no contradiction here. We just simply misunderstood each other. : Let me explain: : I see intention, but also I know the intention is not needed to accept : an action as feeding. Exactly as in the example from the dictionary : I have quoted: "Melting snow feeds the reservoirs." : Melting snow has not intended to feed the reservoirs, do you agree ? :-)) : : What I see in my tank LOOKS TO ME LIKE *intentional* feeding. : I know that not everything is what it looks like, so I am ready : to agree with you about clowns intentions are different... :-) : But... : Feeding in the dictionary has a broader meaning and DOES NOT REQUIRE : intention in the word definition itself. So I do not see a reason : which could prevent calling this action feeding. : : You cannot accept even a broader term "feeding" to the action observed, : even if I agree with you that clowns MIGHT be not aware they are, : in fact, feeding their host... : So, it looks to me as intentional feeding, but not knowing what is boiling : in the little fish's brain I agree not to argue about fish intentions here. : Putting intentions aside, it is still "feeding" in the broader meaning : similar to unintended "feeding" of the reservoirs by the melting snow... : : At this moment you are not agruing with me, you argue with a dictionary :-) : : Conclusion the clown is intentionally feeding the anemone ..PERIOD. : The clown KNOWS it is feeding the anemone. The clown brain is telling : him "their is a piece of food and I will bring it back to my anemone : because he is hungry, so I need to feed him. : : This is exactly how it looks to me, but (of course) it could be false : impression and I have already agreed with you that this *could be* : unintentional behaviour. The fact is that the anemone is being fed, : and the clown is doing this job of feeding (intentionally or not...), : so I do not see the reason to not call this process "feeding" based : on the dictionary definition I know. You are more than welcome to : provide a better definition of this word. : : So they must also be feeding the anemone sticks, wood, plastic, etc. : and other objects.... LOL : : That speaks it all and for all to see : : I admire some scientists for being so sure they know what animal : thinks about and what its intentions are... : : Knowing how hard it is to understand each other sometimes, between : human beings, using the same language - understanding little animals : and being sure about their intentions based simply on observation : of their behaviour must be very, very hard... But still some of them : do not leave any room for doubt... Amazing! |
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I did 20 years ago and spent 3 day in the hospital. I got hit with two dorsal spines.
-- Boomer If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up Former US Army Bomb Technician (EOD) Member; IABTI, NATEODA, WEODF, ISEE & IPS Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php Want to See More ! The Coral Realm http://www.coralrealm.com : : |
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"Boomer" wrote in message ...
I see you are still digging holes for yourself.. I figured you would post about exactly what you just did. You are talking or want to keep talking in circles. You think maybe you have won on at least on point , as you have been blown away on all others. It is your last chance ditch effort to make yourself look good and is the only reason behind this last post. You are thinkin maybe I have not lost my credibility YET on this issue. Your attempt of interpretation of what I am doing is amazing... I have really no idea what are you getting these impressions. Are you projecting what you would do in similar situation or what? I cannot recognise you, Boomer, recently... you have changed :-( You already know my definition of the word feeding in clowns . I guess you are still confused Feeding is the process by which organisms, typically animals, obtain food. In behavior the anemone is feeding off the food the fish brought it but the fish is not feeding the anemone, a behavioral active intentional act in animal behavior field....WHICH IS WHAT YOU CLAIM and all evidence disagrees with you. You have referred me to the dictionary to check my definition of "feeding"... I have checked mine and found I understand this word as in dictionary. What dictionary are you taking your definition from ? Can you quote the source ? How "intentions" can be detected in animals lacking their brain, for example: medusa ? What are "intentions" of meduza, which has no brain, and - does not think ? Is it still feeding, if there are no intentions? :-)) Every one that is reading this thread knows what I mean and what you meant, to include youself. Well, I would not be so sure about this... Have you conducted any survey ? :) You made the claim on what your clown is doing, not me and now you are trying to defend it to make it you look better. I do not care to "look better". I do not have phd in animal behaviorism, I do not have any title to defend in front of my students :-)) I can afford to be wrong in my observations - I am just a hobbyist observing a single pair of maroon clowns in a single tank... I have shared my observations and my interpretations of these. I said many times, that I can agree with scientists about the lack of intentions in the clowns behaviour, even if this is clear only from looking at my pair. My pair is probably not representative, so I can undestood it does not involve intentions - ok. What I have problem with is associations of "feeding" with intentions. My dicionary supports my understanding of word "feeding". You have some problems quoting any dictionary supporting your version... What is wrong in this picture ? :-) You are trying to find ways to dig yourself out of the hole. " um, maybe if I keep on the 'feeding" definition thing I'll gain some lost ground" Give it Up The problem is I am not in any hole... I do not need to dig myself - I am perfectly fine with being wrong. I just ask you to show me in some reputable source your definition of word "feeding" :-) Do I ask for too much ? :-) Go head and dig some more post holes, I really do not care Yes you do... |
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But then one has to ask the question " Is this instinct
for feeding the anemone even though it's not there?" The question has to be asked, which is the normal, and which is the resulting outcome in the abnormal? Wayne Sallee Wayne's Pets AverageSchmuck wrote on 4/5/2006 1:30 AM: The above that Boomer stated I observe everytime I feed my fish because I do not currently have an anemone my maroon clown has found a dug out spot in the rock formation which he defends and is constantly keeping clean. I Feed my lionfish shrimp parts and scallops mostly abd wekk the clown has shown a liking to these also so he will steal them off the stick if the lionfish is slow to get their. Guess where he takes it right to his hole every single time. |
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CBS are a a lot easier to keep with a lion than the
regular skunk cleaners, as the cbs are a lot more agressive, and more able to defend themselves. Wayne Sallee Wayne's Pets Boomer wrote on 4/5/2006 3:04 PM: Meaning you can keep all these with lions, if you know what you are doing. I kept a 12 " Volitans for 12 years in a 55 gal , with smaller fish and always with a pair of mated RBCS. |
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"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message ...
And yes I have known about this idea that "anemone fish are not intentionally feeding their anemone" for many years :-) But I still think that there is more design and purpose than many people see. And I agree that the definition of "feeding" does not have to include "intention". Exactly. Instinct does not have to mean "premeditated intentions". |
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I am unsure what both of you are arguing about but my observation.
I watch my clown take food and place it in his hole that he carved in the sand near the live rock. He sleeps their, rests their, guards it, and yes without the anenome takes food their. Same exact behavior that he would do if their was an anenome present. What I am seeing is same thing mammals do when they indentify a resource and want it for themselves. Dogs are very good at showing this! Its called "Resource Guarding" and it is not always food. It can be anything they see as a possible resource for enjoyment, food, anything. Now this resource gaurding happens to be an advantage for the anenome even though it does not appear the clown is comprehending fully what he is doing. The clown simply is seeing hey bingo resource quick hide it before I have to waste energy fighting for it and then their is the anenome (The clowns "Safe Spot") benefitting from this. A symbiotic relationship does not always mean they intend on helping each nor does it mean each depends on other for survival. Each organism their can very effectively survive on its own without other. So in conclusion your both correct and both wrong! After all to feed doesnt always mean intention but does matter what definition you wish to define the act of feeding by because after look up on it seems it is implied to have intention on some and others completely unneccesary. However I do belive in my opinion that calling the behavior of the clown taking food to his safe spot feeding is a tad mislabeled but still correct only if safe spot is a living organism that will eat the food or item he/she is taking their because his intention appears to be "Resource Guarding". I see same behavior in my tank but clown is taking food and items to a rock. Now the rock has no use for the food so you cant say he is feeding his safe spot. So proper terminolgy for the act your both talking about would be better labeled "Resource Guarding" with a side effect of feeding in certain circumstances. http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=feed http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=symbiotic |
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My intention is not to argue fight insult... none of that you guys are
simply talking about something I really get into. Something I have done since I was a small child watch wildlife and track their behavior ... What I do and I think I do well in a job that involves that but money you need money to be formally trained. |
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I don't want to rule out that they might know that they
are feeding the anemone. How do we know that they don't know that the anemone is eating the food? My personal fealing is that it is a little bit of both. Just because it is one, does not mean that it is not some of the other. For example: I had a customer that had a pair of clown fish with a variety of fish, and two skunk cleaner shrimp. They were all getting along just fine for a long time. Then he decided to add a carpet anemone. The clownfish loved the new addition, and started killing and draging the cleaner shrimps, and other fish into the anemone. Nothing had changed but the addition of the anemone. This raises the question of what were they thinking when they went bazerk, killing and feeding the anemene. My figuring is that they were going to breed, and fish that are breeding, are more agressive to other creatures, but, did they kill them to eat them later??? I don't think so. When damsel fish kill other fish, they don't drag them back to the spot where they sleep. So there's got to be a reason why a clownfish will kill a fish, and drag it back to the place where they sleep. And yes, I know that clown fish are categorized in with the damsel fish. Wayne Sallee Wayne's Pets AverageSchmuck wrote on 4/6/2006 1:01 PM: My intention is not to argue fight insult... none of that you guys are simply talking about something I really get into. Something I have done since I was a small child watch wildlife and track their behavior ... What I do and I think I do well in a job that involves that but money you need money to be formally trained. |
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well I am not up completely on the mating behavior but I do know with
most species try to horde and fatten up for lack of better word when they are going through mating. So the slaughter of the shrimps may not have anything to do with feeding the anenome but hording food for the act of mating and raising their young now that they feel comfortable with the situation enough to mate. Now I cant say its completely impossible that they are not feeding I just see it as very unlikely that they are intending on feeding the anenome. It could be possible that the anenome caused them to get more aggressive due to the shrimps wanting to clean it. The clowns are territorial so they may have killed it due to that and said hey why waste it save it for later. Its possible I supose .. just shooting stuff out their in a brain storm fashion. Maybe Don Ghedis could supply more information on their mating rituals on that concern cause he seems to be very up on that and to be honest I think he mates them. |
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My last post on this thread
.. I have not changed I think you have. This thread ( my remarks) is on animal behavior and its relationship to feeding behavior and its interpretation. You would need to seek an ethnology book and read its section on feeding behavior, a science. I sent you to a dictionary to see where you would go with it, I. was disappointed. A std English dictionary is not the place to be on this subject. That was my point to see where you would go. I'm surprised you did not look up the term anthropomorphic and have a go at that as well. You are still dwelling on the dictionary term. I was trying here to give a lesson, it did not work. I once wrote a undergraduate paper ; "The Food and Habits and Feeding Behavior of the American River Otter ( Lutra canadensis )". No it was never in print and I do not even have a copy of it any more, it was 25 years ago. But have brought it upon forums, when picking on Ronny ;-) "Your attempt of interpretation of what I am doing is amazing..." Then why its it I pretty much know what your post are going to be Peoples behavior and actions are often easy to project in certain situations...sorry. And I'll bet some here projected mine as well :-) "I do not need to dig myself - I am perfectly fine with being wrong" If you are fine at being wrong then why do you say the fish is intentionally feeding its anemone, when all studies and experts on clowns differ with you. I raised then for a couple of decades and friend of mine raises and breeds clowns, especially rare ones and collects host anemones I have probably been a pain in the ass on this thread ...sorry and should have approached it differently. Rather than "feeding" the fuel :-) -- Boomer If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up Former US Army Bomb Technician (EOD) Member; IABTI, NATEODA, WEODF, ISEE & IPS Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php Want to See More ! The Coral Realm http://www.coralrealm.com "Pszemol" wrote in message ... : "Boomer" wrote in message ... : I see you are still digging holes for yourself.. I figured you would post about exactly : what you just did. You are talking or want to keep talking in circles. You think maybe you : have won on at least on point , as you have been blown away on all others. It is your last : chance ditch effort to make yourself look good and is the only reason behind this last : post. You are thinkin maybe I have not lost my credibility YET on this issue. : : Your attempt of interpretation of what I am doing is amazing... : I have really no idea what are you getting these impressions. : Are you projecting what you would do in similar situation or what? : I cannot recognise you, Boomer, recently... you have changed :-( : : You already know my definition of the word feeding in clowns . I guess you are still : confused : : Feeding is the process by which organisms, typically animals, obtain food. In behavior : the anemone is feeding off the food the fish brought it but the fish is not feeding the : anemone, a behavioral active intentional act in animal behavior field....WHICH IS : WHAT YOU CLAIM and all evidence disagrees with you. : : You have referred me to the dictionary to check my definition of "feeding"... : I have checked mine and found I understand this word as in dictionary. : : What dictionary are you taking your definition from ? Can you quote the source ? : How "intentions" can be detected in animals lacking their brain, for example: medusa ? : What are "intentions" of meduza, which has no brain, and - does not think ? : Is it still feeding, if there are no intentions? :-)) : : Every one that is reading this thread knows what I mean : and what you meant, to include youself. : : Well, I would not be so sure about this... : Have you conducted any survey ? :) : : You made the claim on what your clown is doing, not me and now you : are trying to defend it to make it you look better. : : I do not care to "look better". I do not have phd in animal behaviorism, : I do not have any title to defend in front of my students :-)) : I can afford to be wrong in my observations - I am just a hobbyist : observing a single pair of maroon clowns in a single tank... : I have shared my observations and my interpretations of these. : I said many times, that I can agree with scientists about the lack : of intentions in the clowns behaviour, even if this is clear only : from looking at my pair. My pair is probably not representative, so : I can undestood it does not involve intentions - ok. : : What I have problem with is associations of "feeding" with intentions. : My dicionary supports my understanding of word "feeding". : You have some problems quoting any dictionary supporting your version... : What is wrong in this picture ? :-) : : You are trying to find ways to dig yourself out of the hole. : " um, maybe if I keep on the 'feeding" definition thing I'll : gain some lost ground" Give it Up : : The problem is I am not in any hole... : . : I just ask you to show me in some reputable source your definition : of word "feeding" :-) Do I ask for too much ? :-) : : Go head and dig some more post holes, I really do not care : : Yes you do... |
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"I don't want to rule out that they might know that they are feeding the anemone. How do we know that they don't know that the anemone is eating the food?" If they know that Wayne, then why do they bring sticks to anemones and other not eatable items/objects "The clownfish loved the new addition, and started killing and draging the cleaner shrimps, and other fish into the anemone. Nothing had changed but the addition of the anemone. This raises the question of what were they thinking when they went bazerk, killing and feeding the anemene." It is called a "threat behavioral response" Just to throw out something kinda new. Some researchers think that a clowns **** is an important food source to anemones. Base on this and a few other know things ( beating off predators, etc..) it may bring clown and their anemone more to a mutualistic relationship. I will not reply :-) -- Boomer If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up Former US Army Bomb Technician (EOD) Member; IABTI, NATEODA, WEODF, ISEE & IPS Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php Want to See More ! The Coral Realm http://www.coralrealm.com "Wayne Sallee" wrote in message ... :I don't want to rule out that they might know that they : are feeding the anemone. How do we know that they don't : know that the anemone is eating the food? : : My personal fealing is that it is a little bit of both. : Just because it is one, does not mean that it is not some : of the other. : : For example: : : I had a customer that had a pair of clown fish with a : variety of fish, and two skunk cleaner shrimp. They were : all getting along just fine for a long time. Then he : decided to add a carpet anemone. The clownfish loved the : new addition, and started killing and draging the cleaner : shrimps, and other fish into the anemone. Nothing had : changed but the addition of the anemone. This raises the : question of what were they thinking when they went bazerk, : killing and feeding the anemene. : : My figuring is that they were going to breed, and fish : that are breeding, are more agressive to other creatures, : but, did they kill them to eat them later??? I don't think : so. When damsel fish kill other fish, they don't drag them : back to the spot where they sleep. So there's got to be a : reason why a clownfish will kill a fish, and drag it back : to the place where they sleep. : : And yes, I know that clown fish are categorized in with : the damsel fish. : : Wayne Sallee : Wayne's Pets : : : : AverageSchmuck wrote on 4/6/2006 1:01 PM: : My intention is not to argue fight insult... none of that you guys are : simply talking about something I really get into. Something I have : done since I was a small child watch wildlife and track their behavior : ... What I do and I think I do well in a job that involves that but : money you need money to be formally trained. |
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Boomer wrote on 4/6/2006 5:53 PM:
"I don't want to rule out that they might know that they are feeding the anemone. How do we know that they don't know that the anemone is eating the food?" If they know that Wayne, then why do they bring sticks to anemones and other not eatable items/objects Well it's sure not to eat it later :-) Wayne Sallee Wayne's Pets |
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So back to the same thing, it thinks its anemone can eat a wooden stick or plastic straw
so it "feeds" it. "Instinct does not have to mean "premeditated intentions" You forgot a work :-) Innate " But I still think that there is more design and purpose : than many people see" Base on what, you see better or more than others ?? There will not be a reply ;-) -- Boomer If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up Former US Army Bomb Technician (EOD) Member; IABTI, NATEODA, WEODF, ISEE & IPS Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php Want to See More ! The Coral Realm http://www.coralrealm.com "Pszemol" wrote in message ... : "Wayne Sallee" wrote in message ... : And yes I have known about this idea that "anemone fish : are not intentionally feeding their anemone" for many : years :-) : : But I still think that there is more design and purpose : than many people see. : : And I agree that the definition of "feeding" does not have : to include "intention". : : Exactly. : Instinct does not have to mean "premeditated intentions". : |
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"Boomer" wrote in message ...
"I don't want to rule out that they might know that they are feeding the anemone. How do we know that they don't know that the anemone is eating the food?" If they know that Wayne, then why do they bring sticks to anemones and other not eatable items/objects Because they do not have a PhD in zoology ? :-) Have you been exposed to a term "instinct"? Do you think a dog "knows" to cover his droppings? Or this is just an instinct? Do you think a baby mammal "knows" that it needs to suck the mother to survive or this is just blind instinct ? The same might be with "clown feeding anemone" fenomena. You expect too much "perfect sense" while interpreting observation as intentions... Even in humans it is difficult to judge other person. Like - you see a person smoking a cigarette. Do you assume based on this observation, the person intends to kill himself from painfull lung cancer? Maybe clown feels a temptation to bring food to his anemone and does it without knowing exactly what is he doing... But this discussion drifted far away from the subject and focused on YOU using common hobby terms in uncommon meaning (to start with carpet anemone). You still did not provide a dictionary quotation requiring intention in the meaning of word "feeding". I will not reply :-) What are you afraid of? :-)) |
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"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message ...
Boomer wrote on 4/6/2006 5:53 PM: "I don't want to rule out that they might know that they are feeding the anemone. How do we know that they don't know that the anemone is eating the food?" If they know that Wayne, then why do they bring sticks to anemones and other not eatable items/objects Well it's sure not to eat it later :-) Good one, Wayne! :-)) |
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"Boomer" wrote in message ...
My last post on this thread I have found one more you sent 12 minutes after this one... ;-) And one more, another 6 minutes later... :-)))) But this is perfectly fine with me :-))))) Feel free to add more! Your posts are as always, very informative... I sent you to a dictionary to see where you would go with it, I. was disappointed. A std English dictionary is not the place to be on this subject. Could you do me a favor and QUOTE a *definition* of "feeding" from one of such sources? Thank you. That would be helpfull and constructive critic. BTW - We are not writing a PhD dissertation here - we are discussing on a public forum, and we expect a common English to be used. If you know you use a common word in a uncommon meaning, it would be YOUR responsibility to warn about the difference since YOU are the scientist here who knows both meanings, not us, hobbyists. (see confusion about you using word "carpet anemone" to describe BTA). "Your attempt of interpretation of what I am doing is amazing..." Then why its it I pretty much know what your post are going to be You "knew it", but after the fact... That kind of knowing future is easy. Do not give yourself too much credit ;-) If you are fine at being wrong then why do you say the fish is intentionally feeding its anemone, when all studies and experts on clowns differ with you. Because TO ME it looks like intentional feeding... The same way like the robin bird feeding its chicks feeding. Even if it is not intentional feeding, it is still feeding. I do not care if it is premeditated or driven by a blind instinct. It is feeding because food is actively provided. This is the only definition of word feeding I know so far... You are more than welcome providing a better definition and I will gladly change my mind. As I said before - marine zoology or animal behaviourism is not my business profession so I do not feel bad making mistake in this field... :-)) I have probably been a pain in the ass on this thread ... sorry and should have approached it differently. Yes, it was noticable different than your previous participation in this group... Instead of focusing on the issue, you make it too much PERSONAL thing. Short tempered and impatient with us, dumb hobbyist... :-) That is sad change, I expected more from you as an expert here. I hope it was just your bad day ;-) |
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"Boomer" wrote in message ...
So back to the same thing, it thinks its anemone can eat a wooden stick or plastic straw so it "feeds" it. Putting aside I have never seen this in my tank, tell me please: Why is the clownfish bringing unedible items to its nest ? I am sure it is not "to eat it later" :-) I see female clown from my pair frequently CLEANING the nest site by REMOVING vigorously items like shells, pieces of rock or feeder-algae I put in tank for tangs. Also she is wiping the sand surface clean by waging its tail fin creating quite strong water current away from the anemone... pushing all debris away from the nest. Is this behaviour (bringing wooden sticks/straws) observed in the nature? With anemone host or without one ? "Instinct does not have to mean "premeditated intentions" You forgot a work :-) Innate Sorry, I do not follow this one... |
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Lol I am sorry but I do have to make a little fun here Psz please
forgive me. Do you think a dog "knows" to cover his droppings? Or this is just an instinct? Does anyone else see the problem in the above statement cause I have been around dogs my entire life and never observed a dog doing this but my cats do. Even in humans it is difficult to judge other person. Like - you see a person smoking a cigarette. Do you assume based on this observation, the person intends to kill himself from painfull lung cancer? The Cigarette/cancer conversation is one that can spin way out of control. not ussually a good foundation for proving points. ;-) I am sorry bro but I found a little humor their. Please don't be angry ;-) |
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Here is something to ponder on :
The Robin feeding her newly hatched chics is it instinct for her to do this or is it learned response because her mother before her did it and so forth. I ask this cause not just mom feeds pop does also. I mean we don't necessarly remeber our birth or much from our first few years but proven our subconcious does which is where people start to call it instinct but is it really. I would imagine as a baby we take to feeding on mom breast because we smell the fats when held up to it. |
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"AverageSchmuck" wrote in message ...
Lol I am sorry but I do have to make a little fun here Psz please forgive me. Do you think a dog "knows" to cover his droppings? Or this is just an instinct? Does anyone else see the problem in the above statement cause I have been around dogs my entire life and never observed a dog doing this but my cats do. Dog, cats, cangaroo - the name of the particular animal is not important here. What is important here, that some animals, including humans with huge and well working brains!!! DO certain things out of instinct, reflex. Without putting much thinking into it. Similar thing can be with clownfish. Even in humans it is difficult to judge other person. Like - you see a person smoking a cigarette. Do you assume based on this observation, the person intends to kill himself from painfull lung cancer? The Cigarette/cancer conversation is one that can spin way out of control. not ussually a good foundation for proving points. Yes, it is generally not a good idea to comment such thing to a stranger ;) ;-) I am sorry bro but I found a little humor their. Please don't be angry ;-) I am far from being angry, "bro" :-) |
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"AverageSchmuck" wrote in message ...
Here is something to ponder on : The Robin feeding her newly hatched chics is it instinct for her to do this or is it learned response because her mother before her did it and so forth. I ask this cause not just mom feeds pop does also. I mean we don't necessarly remeber our birth or much from our first few years but proven our subconcious does which is where people start to call it instinct but is it really. I would imagine as a baby we take to feeding on mom breast because we smell the fats when held up to it. Whatever the reason is, we do not do it "because we intended to feed" :-) We do it out of blind instinct. |
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Seriously if your trying to prove a point or convince someone of said
point it might be advantagous to at least pick something that is considered to be instinct. First so you know for sure what the definition is : ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ in·stinct (nstngkt) n. 1. An inborn pattern of behavior that is characteristic of a species and is often a response to specific environmental stimuli. 2. A powerful motivation or impulse. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- in·stinctive or in·stinctu·al (n-stngkch-l) adj. Source: The American Heritage® Stedman's Medical Dictionary Copyright © 2002, 2001, 1995 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. Main Entry: in·stinct Pronunciation: 'in-"sti[ng](k)t Function: noun 1 : a largely inheritable and unalterable tendency of an organism to make a complex and specific response to environmental stimuli without involving reason 2 : behavior that is mediated by reactions below the conscious level Source: Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary, © 2002 Merriam-Webster, Inc. ---- 1 of the 5 entries at this web address http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=instinct ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Now with definition in mind that means that whatever is considered in instinct is unalterable. Example might be our heartbeat!!! We can not consciously alter our heartbeat with exception of some very rare Tibetan monks that can meditate and raise and drop their bodies core temp and slow and speed their heartbeat. Now because those monks can alter those on a conscious level that opens the debate that even our heartbeat is not instinct. You used the example of and I qoute he "Do you think a dog "knows" to cover his droppings?" Of course I responded to this trying to make a joke of it cause you either have no idea what your talking about or my assumption you got mixed up and wrote the wrong mammal. I do not disagree with the fact that some stuff in this world might be instinct but we are dealing with more basic stuff than you think here like swimming to a fish. Now let me explain your example I am going to assume you meant cat. Now with cat when their born they do not know to clean themselves. They do not know to go poop on loose gravel and then bury it. All of that is taught to them by their mothers. First few weeks mother eats their poop it helps stimulate the lactation to feed their young. Then as the get older the mother slowly teaches them what the food dish is, how to clean themselves by doing it, purring is even a learned thing that mom teaches them. Hunting is a taught thing also. Cats are a social animal and typically social behavior animals are taught almost all of their basic skills from birth through interaction in thier social circles. Yes even for us!!!!!! Now the possibilty to learn in that fashion could be instinctive behavior but the activities themselves are ussually not. My point here is if your gonna use something to support your argument maybe it should actually support your argument and not defeat your argument. I seriously was joking I thought it was abudantly clear until I see your half cocked response. Whatever I know you will respond and it will not be nice doesnt matter to me and not worth the argument hence I will not reply to this particular post again. JOKE JOKE JOKE JOKE BELOW BELOW BELOW BELOW cangaroo? Can I get those at the super market by chance? Must be next to cancorn. I know it was a real knee slapper!!!! ;-) Later Days!!!! |
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"blind instinct" ? define that all I find is instinct
On Fri, 7 Apr 2006 07:42:37 -0500, "Pszemol" wrote: "AverageSchmuck" wrote in message ... Here is something to ponder on : The Robin feeding her newly hatched chics is it instinct for her to do this or is it learned response because her mother before her did it and so forth. I ask this cause not just mom feeds pop does also. I mean we don't necessarly remeber our birth or much from our first few years but proven our subconcious does which is where people start to call it instinct but is it really. I would imagine as a baby we take to feeding on mom breast because we smell the fats when held up to it. Whatever the reason is, we do not do it "because we intended to feed" :-) We do it out of blind instinct. |
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"AverageSchmuck" wrote in message ...
Seriously if your trying to prove a point or convince someone of said point it might be advantagous to at least pick something that is considered to be instinct. So you are saying that behaviour of covering its own poop is NOT an instinct ? That is is learned from the parents. Do I understand you correctly, Jaime ? First so you know for sure what the definition is : Where excatly in my text I am using this word out of its meaning to let you assume I do not know its meaning ? Now with definition in mind that means that whatever is considered in instinct is unalterable. Example might be our heartbeat!!! Really ? A heartbeat is an instinct ? Where are you geting this from ? Wow... this is something new for me and very interesting :-) |
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Ok I know I said I wasnt going to reply but I have to now.
You sir as I figured would post in a hateful hurtful manner but I never for one second thought you would stoop so low as to call me by a name that is not me. You are accusing me of being Jaime from previous posts and that sir could not be any further from the truth. I am not Jaime and I do not know Jaime and I am on completely different coast line all together from Jaime. So I can see now you have no interest in debating a topic in a educated manner. In fact you dont even show the inclination of showing your interested in sharing ideas. All your interested in is beating down and humilating anyone that happens to disagree with you. Hey get over it you not all that and a bag of chips. So I bid you farewell!!!!! Please don't force me to add you to my plonk list cause I do have interst in learning without censoring people out but if you continue in a pursuit to insult then I will be forced to. Later days!!!! PS .. Please dont assume! |
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"AverageSchmuck" wrote in message ...
Ok I know I said I wasnt going to reply but I have to now. This is some kind of bug on this newsgroup recently... A lot of people are saying never to respond, and then they do :-) You sir as I figured would post in a hateful hurtful manner Hateful ? Hurtful ? It is not me :-) You get it all wrong, sir. I am very, very friendly guy... never for one second thought you would stoop so low as to call me by a name that is not me. I am sorry, this is not your name ? What is you name, then ? You are accusing me of being Jaime from previous posts and that sir could not be any further from the truth. How can I know this ? :-) You, sir, apeared out of nowhere on this group and right a way become a friend with Jaime :-))) It just looked like you are his alter ego :-) If not - than I am sorry for calling you Jaime. I am surprised you take it as an insult - I though you liked the guy ;-) So I can see now you have no interest in debating a topic in a educated manner. No, I have great interest in debating a topic... Calling you Jaime was the 2nd agenda I had - wanted to throw this and see how you react. You know, I can multitask a little :-) In fact you dont even show the inclination of showing your interested in sharing ideas. Where have you noticed this ? I am just sharing the ideas in a thread about the slug. Please don't force me to add you to my plonk list cause I do have interst in learning without censoring people out but if you continue in a pursuit to insult then I will be forced to. Who you read and who you don't is your personal business and I have nothing to do with this. Feel free to add me to your plonk list if you feel like it. I really do not care, I am serious... PS .. Please dont assume! Sorry for calling you "Jaime" - can you search in your heart and forgive me ? Let's go back to the thread about instincts and tell me more about it... |
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LMAO ROFL Seriously this is beyond explanation. Thread is done as
far as I am concerned for me .. Thank you for killing the conversation! |
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"AverageSchmuck" wrote in message ...
Thread is done as far as I am concerned for me .. Thank you for killing the conversation! Do not thank me - this choice is only yours :-) |
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Pszemol wrote:
So you are saying that behaviour of covering its own poop is NOT an instinct ? That is is learned from the parents. Do I understand you correctly, Jaime ? That is correct. If you take a kitten away from its mother early enough, it will not cover its feces even when grown. The mother trains her kittens. George Patterson Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to your slightly older self. |
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"George Patterson" wrote in message news:4gDZf.877$Fp4.349@trnddc01...
Pszemol wrote: So you are saying that behaviour of covering its own poop is NOT an instinct ? That is is learned from the parents. Do I understand you correctly, Jaime ? That is correct. If you take a kitten away from its mother early enough, it will not cover its feces even when grown. The mother trains her kittens. OK, so it was a bad example of an instinct if we talk about cats... But I was not talking about cats - I was talking about dogs, doing their thing with rear legs, kicking some grass over their poop. The habbit looking like their want to cover their poop with sand/grass... I have never had a dog, so it is hard for me to interprete this behaviour. What dogs do when they kick some grass over their poop with rear legs? Is this an instinct or is it something else ? |
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