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-   -   How smart are fish ? (http://www.fishkeepingbanter.com/showthread.php?t=61504)

Wayne Sallee July 27th 06 03:57 PM

How smart are fish ?
 
Nothing new about that. People have been doing that for
many years on the farm.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



Pszemol wrote on 7/25/2006 9:33 PM:
"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message
...
Pszemol wrote on 7/24/2006 5:48 PM:
Fish reaction to food is the first kind: they do not have to learn to
eat.
Fish reacting to the fridge opening or seeing a person next to the tank
is the second kind - the same as the one Pavlov dogs developed an
salivation reflex for the sound of the bell. Do more reading here
http://www.es.flinders.edu.au/~matto...lecture30.html


People do that, hence the phrase "mouth watering".


The point was that the dog reflex was the result of the BELL ringing.
Not the result of seeing, smelling or eating the food...


Wayne Sallee July 27th 06 03:59 PM

How smart are fish ?
 
Inabón Yunes wrote on 7/26/2006 1:06 AM:
You see, there is a whole world outthere that sees the bible for what it is
worst. A bunch of papers translated from language to language that are most
likely so transformed that it says the opposite of what they were intended.


Don't believe everything your professors told you. Most
translations go back to the original documents.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


Wayne Sallee July 27th 06 04:02 PM

How smart are fish ?
 
atomweaver wrote on 7/26/2006 9:19 AM:
The scientific community's support for evolution is universal (we
wouldn't have the fields of modern medicine and genetics without it...
Are you getting a flu vaccine this year, Wayne? If so, thanks for your
support of ToE... your dollars and actions speak far more than your
anecdotes do). I'll only leave a pair of links for that angle. I think
the hundreds of thousands of peer-reviewed evolution-related articles in
various scientific journals could also be considered support for ToE;


The fact that we are similar to animals has helped modern
medicine, not the theory of evolution.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


atomweaver July 27th 06 04:18 PM

How smart are fish ?
 
Wayne Sallee wrote in
:

atomweaver wrote on 7/26/2006 9:19 AM:
The scientific community's support for evolution is universal (we
wouldn't have the fields of modern medicine and genetics without
it... Are you getting a flu vaccine this year, Wayne? If so, thanks
for your support of ToE... your dollars and actions speak far more
than your anecdotes do). I'll only leave a pair of links for that
angle. I think the hundreds of thousands of peer-reviewed
evolution-related articles in various scientific journals could also
be considered support for ToE;


The fact that we are similar to animals has helped modern
medicine, not the theory of evolution.


How so?

DaveZ
Atom Weaver

Wayne Sallee July 27th 06 04:27 PM

How smart are fish ?
 
atomweaver wrote on 7/26/2006 9:19 AM:

Regardless, your opinion is in the minority (wrt both the science, and
the religion).


hehe the old excuse "Everybody's doing it" (so it must be
right).

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


Wayne Sallee July 27th 06 04:30 PM

How smart are fish ?
 
How so what? how so are we similar, or how so has our
similarities helped modern medicine?

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



atomweaver wrote on 7/27/2006 11:18 AM:

The fact that we are similar to animals has helped modern
medicine, not the theory of evolution.


How so?

DaveZ
Atom Weaver


atomweaver July 27th 06 04:40 PM

How smart are fish ?
 
Wayne Sallee wrote in news:44C8DC06.90900
@WayneSallee.com:

atomweaver wrote on 7/27/2006 11:18 AM:
Wayne Sallee wrote:
The fact that we are similar to animals has helped modern
medicine, not the theory of evolution.


How so?

DaveZ
Atom Weaver


How so what? how so are we similar, or how so has our
similarities helped modern medicine?

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets




How does the fact that we are similar to animals _not_ help the theory of
evolution?

DaveZ
Atom Weaver

Wayne Sallee July 27th 06 05:02 PM

How smart are fish ?
 
The similarities are something to look at, and are a good
starting point, but they don't prove anything, no more
than the similarities in machines and computers prove that
they evolved from each other. Look at things in the reef,
many things at a casual observance from a novice would
think that they were the same, when a closer look shows
them to be very different, and some things that look very
different are actually more similar than those that look
similar.

If you were a Martian doing a study on how machines
evolved from one another, some of the order of how you
would say they evolved would be in the same order that
they were created, but some of the things would be in no
way the order that they were created.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



atomweaver wrote on 7/27/2006 11:40 AM:
Wayne Sallee wrote in news:44C8DC06.90900
@WayneSallee.com:

atomweaver wrote on 7/27/2006 11:18 AM:
Wayne Sallee wrote:
The fact that we are similar to animals has helped modern
medicine, not the theory of evolution.

How so?

DaveZ
Atom Weaver

How so what? how so are we similar, or how so has our
similarities helped modern medicine?

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets




How does the fact that we are similar to animals _not_ help the theory of
evolution?

DaveZ
Atom Weaver


Wayne Sallee July 27th 06 05:05 PM

How smart are fish ?
 
I guess that depends on your definition of wierdos :-)

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



atomweaver wrote on 7/27/2006 11:50 AM:
Nah, just pointing out how your only peers in the matter are fringe kooks,
wierdos, and extremists of various shades. Its the character of who is
_not_ accepting ToE which should concern you.

For science, It (ToE) is "right", only because it works so incredibly
well...

DaveZ
Atom Weaver


RicSeyler July 27th 06 05:11 PM

How smart are fish ?
 
Ever played the telephone game in school Wayne? Going through person
after person it never comes out the same
at the end of game.

Wayne Sallee wrote:

Inabón Yunes wrote on 7/26/2006 1:06 AM:

You see, there is a whole world outthere that sees the bible for what
it is worst. A bunch of papers translated from language to language
that are most likely so transformed that it says the opposite of what
they were intended.



Don't believe everything your professors told you. Most translations
go back to the original documents.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



--
Ric Seyler
Online Racing: RicSeyler
GPL Handicap 6.35

http://www.pcola.gulf.net/~ricseyler
remove –SPAM- from email address
--------------------------------------
"Homer no function beer well without."
- H.J. Simpson

Wilbur Slice July 27th 06 05:23 PM

How smart are fish ?
 
On Thu, 27 Jul 2006 15:02:37 GMT, Wayne Sallee
wrote:

atomweaver wrote on 7/26/2006 9:19 AM:
The scientific community's support for evolution is universal (we
wouldn't have the fields of modern medicine and genetics without it...
Are you getting a flu vaccine this year, Wayne? If so, thanks for your
support of ToE... your dollars and actions speak far more than your
anecdotes do). I'll only leave a pair of links for that angle. I think
the hundreds of thousands of peer-reviewed evolution-related articles in
various scientific journals could also be considered support for ToE;


The fact that we are similar to animals has helped modern
medicine, not the theory of evolution.



And why are we similar to animals?

(hint: learn something about evolution)

LOL!


Wayne Sallee July 27th 06 05:25 PM

How smart are fish ?
 
Most translations go back to the original documents.
If what you say was true, then the many different
translations would vary greatly, and they would vary
greatly over the years. But that is not the case.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



RicSeyler wrote on 7/27/2006 12:11 PM:
Ever played the telephone game in school Wayne? Going through person
after person it never comes out the same
at the end of game.

Wayne Sallee wrote:

Inabón Yunes wrote on 7/26/2006 1:06 AM:

You see, there is a whole world outthere that sees the bible for what
it is worst. A bunch of papers translated from language to language
that are most likely so transformed that it says the opposite of what
they were intended.



Don't believe everything your professors told you. Most translations
go back to the original documents.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets




Wayne Sallee July 27th 06 05:29 PM

How smart are fish ?
 
RicSeyler wrote on 7/27/2006 12:11 PM:
Ever played the telephone game in school Wayne? Going through person
after person it never comes out the same
at the end of game.


Yea, by the time it got to me, it would be senseless, so I
always created a new statement, and passed it on then
everybody would be cracking up wondering how it go to that
:-) hehehe


And fish are a lot smarter than people give them credit for.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


atomweaver July 27th 06 06:08 PM

DaveZ and Wayne's ToE/Creationist thread Jump in, or ignore
 
Wayne Sallee wrote in
:

The similarities are something to look at, and are a good
starting point, but they don't prove anything, no more
than the similarities in machines and computers prove that
they evolved from each other.


But unlike machines, the fact that living things have heritable traits
is common knowledge (you like like your parent's right? So does most
everyone, and every thing, else), and here is why your machine analogy
fails so miserably and obviously. DNA is the vehicle by which heritable
traits are pssed from one living organism to its offspring (a feature
which machines obviusly lack).
Taxonomy by physical similarities was a common practice of early
scientists (they had little else to go on), and still has value today,
inasmuch as living things with similar physical characteristics are
likely (not guaranteed, see convergent evolution) to be somehow related.
But you are right, proof does not come from a single example of physical
similarity. Fortunately, commonality of genetic material serves to
_heavily_ reinforce with additional evidence that which was previously
posited upon appearance alone.

Look at things in the reef,
many things at a casual observance from a novice would
think that they were the same, when a closer look shows
them to be very different, and some things that look very
different are actually more similar than those that look
similar.

This shows that a novice simply doesn't know what he's looking for.
Hell, even experienced professionals will adjust taxonomies frequently,
on the basis of additional gathered evidence. That's a large part of
the value of scientific theory over dogmatic scripture. This month's
TFH has an article on exactly how such evidence was used to assign the
chanchito (sp?) a different species name, IIRC. One small improvement
to the theory... All of this merely means that the task of properly
tracking heritable traits is a complex one, not that the task is
impossible (in fact, genetics makes the taks much easier and more
accurate)

More ToE at work;

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-
dyn/content/article/2005/08/06/AR2005080600849.html

Can you link me to any recent research that Creationists have done, to
find support for their various assertions in the physical world
(evidence in _support_ of their claims, not just attempts to discredit
evolution)?

If you were a Martian doing a study on how machines
evolved from one another, some of the order of how you
would say they evolved would be in the same order that
they were created, but some of the things would be in no
way the order that they were created.


If I were a Martian doing such a study, I would be doing it with the
pre-supposition that machines had the ability to pass on heritable
traits to one another, and thus would be a very stupid Martian.

If I were an Earthling doing the same study on _living_ things, which I
had _observed_ to pass on heritable traits, I would be going about
things in a much more intelligent way. I'd probably also be searching
for the mechanism by which those traits are passed along. Saaay...
those Earthlings are pretty smart critters (well, some of them,
anyways).

Regards,
DaveZ


Wayne Sallee July 27th 06 06:34 PM

Where did we and our corals come from?
 
atomweaver wrote on 7/27/2006 1:08 PM:
But unlike machines, the fact that living things have heritable traits
is common knowledge (you like like your parent's right? So does most
everyone, and every thing, else), and here is why your machine analogy
fails so miserably and obviously. DNA is the vehicle by which heritable
traits are pssed from one living organism to its offspring (a feature
which machines obviusly lack).


Good point, DNA tells everything about the creature, it is
the instructions for the cells, on how to grow, and
everything else. It's like with computer programing, I
prefer assembly language/machine language, because machine
language is the only language that the computer chip
understands. To me, programing in machine language, is
like changing the DNA of a fish, while programing in other
languages is like breeding the fish to get the
characteristics you want. DNA has done wonders in the
criminal justis system, and in science, it still does not
prove that one creature evolved from another any more than
if I write a computer program, and then write another
computer program using much of the same code.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


atomweaver July 27th 06 06:50 PM

Where did we and our corals come from?
 
Wayne Sallee wrote in
:

DNA has done wonders in the
criminal justis system, and in science, it still does not
prove that one creature evolved from another any more than
if I write a computer program, and then write another
computer program using much of the same code.


Patently false. Myriad examples of contemporary speciation exist;

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html

speciation examples in section 5.0

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/speciation.html

Most all can be verified by documented alterations in genetic material...

DaveZ
Atom Weaver

Wayne Sallee July 27th 06 07:21 PM

Where did we and our corals come from?
 
You can take guppies or other fish, and breed them to get
them the way you want them in color and fin pattern, but
you can only go so far, and you start running into
problems with defects such as sterility.

There is some cross breeding that people can do, but again
there are limits, and often sterility.

It's like there's a wall that keeps you from going too far.

Everything has it's limits.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



atomweaver wrote on 7/27/2006 1:50 PM:
Wayne Sallee wrote in
:

DNA has done wonders in the
criminal justis system, and in science, it still does not
prove that one creature evolved from another any more than
if I write a computer program, and then write another
computer program using much of the same code.


Patently false. Myriad examples of contemporary speciation exist;

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html

speciation examples in section 5.0

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/speciation.html

Most all can be verified by documented alterations in genetic material...

DaveZ
Atom Weaver


Pszemol July 27th 06 07:41 PM

How smart are fish ?
 
"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message ...
Nothing new about that. People have been doing that for
many years on the farm.


So now compare this to your fish recognising the fridge opening.

Pszemol July 27th 06 07:42 PM

How smart are fish ?
 
This one: ...

"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message ...
What question?

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



Pszemol wrote on 7/25/2006 9:37 PM:
"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message
...
What question?


The one you cut off the bottom of my previous message.


Pszemol July 27th 06 07:48 PM

How smart are fish ?
 
"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message ...
Most translations go back to the original documents.


It is not true. I bet many european languages like
German, English, French were translated from the
Latin version, not from the original Hebrew/Aramaic...
And even so - each translating person/team will
have different "flavor" added to the translation...
It is impossible to translate word-to-word from
one language to another, especially so different
languages as English and Hebrew...

Do an experiment:
Try to do modern text translation from English to German,
hire two different translators, then get two Germant versions
of the same English text and compare them word-by-word.
I bet they will be different. Then hire another two translators
and ask them to translate these two German copies back
to English - you will be amazed what will you do in return.

If what you say was true, then the many different
translations would vary greatly, and they would vary
greatly over the years. But that is not the case.


They DO vary greatly.

Wayne Sallee July 27th 06 09:17 PM

Where did we and our corals come from?
 


atomweaver wrote on 7/27/2006 3:39 PM:
Wayne Sallee wrote in
:

You can take guppies or other fish, and breed them to get
them the way you want them in color and fin pattern, but
you can only go so far, and you start running into
problems with defects such as sterility.

We talked about aquarium breeders before, Wayne. They don't compare
at all to strains in nature.

1. How wide is a breeder's selection of genetic stock, as compared to
that of nature? If the richest breeder in the world put all of his
resources into one common fish variety (sya, guppies, per your example),
he couldn't get get one millionth of the variety of genetic stock
available in nature...


Not true, many creatures can be raised in such numbers
that they would never come in contact with in the wild.



2. What impact does the artificial selection process of the breeder
have on the longevity of that genetic stock, as compared to the
selection process outlined by natural selection? As you yourself
pointed out above, breeders don't select for the species most fit to
survive to a reproductive age (and then let them breed), they cull based
on colorforms, size, finnage, etc, call them "sellable" traits, and work
to "fix" those sellable traits, by cross and inter-breeding lines.
Thats not the same process as Dear ol' Mother Nature, at all.


Sure it is, it's survival of the fittest. Those that are
not as fit get sold to pet stores.


Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


Wayne Sallee July 27th 06 09:23 PM

Where did we and our corals come from?
 
atomweaver wrote on 7/27/2006 3:39 PM:
Thats not the same process as Dear ol' Mother Nature, at all.


Who is "Mother Nature"?

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


RicSeyler July 27th 06 10:57 PM

How smart are fish ?
 
The "original documents" were compiled from stories passed down through
generations....

Wayne Sallee wrote:

Most translations go back to the original documents.
If what you say was true, then the many different translations would
vary greatly, and they would vary greatly over the years. But that is
not the case.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets






--
Ric Seyler
Online Racing: RicSeyler
GPL Handicap 6.35

http://www.pcola.gulf.net/~ricseyler
remove –SPAM- from email address
--------------------------------------
"Homer no function beer well without."
- H.J. Simpson

Inabón Yunes July 27th 06 11:22 PM

How smart are fish ?
 
I always use that as a proof that humans come from one cell. That it is
possible, that we can see it everyday...
Then again, what is evolution?
Because humans and all animals for that matter come from a unicellular
organism is why our development include that fact.
While embryon development is not evolution, it exists because evolution
happened.
iy
"Wilbur Slice" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 01:06:25 -0400, "Inabón Yunes"
wrote:

For God's sake Wayne, you are taking fire from everywhere dude!
You see, go to church to talk about this, is the only place they'll belief
you blindfolded.
Here, hehehe, well, you can't take anymore beating.
When I first entered this NG I was under the impression that you knew a
little about something, at this point I am not sure how you made it thru
high school.
You see, there is a whole world outthere that sees the bible for what it
is
worst. A bunch of papers translated from language to language that are
most
likely so transformed that it says the opposite of what they were
intended.
For example, the bible says that the Israelites were the chosen people,
apparently they were the chosen ones alright but to be punish by God for
eternity.
For 5,000 years their people had done nothing but suffer. Even today a
few
descendants of David died at the hands of the descendants of Goliath.
See,
they were the chosen people to get screwed over millennia...
Do you still belief LITERALLY in the bible?
Evolution rules dude! Just watch a zygote, unicellular, transform in 9
months into a human being.


Ummm... I am an evolutionist, to be sure. Creationism is simple
mided ignorant foolishness. But the development of a zygote into a
human being is *not* evolution. Has nothing to do with it.




Inabón Yunes July 27th 06 11:23 PM

How smart are fish ?
 
Yeah?
Where is the original document?
iy
"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message
...
Inabón Yunes wrote on 7/26/2006 1:06 AM:
You see, there is a whole world outthere that sees the bible for what it
is worst. A bunch of papers translated from language to language that
are most likely so transformed that it says the opposite of what they
were intended.


Don't believe everything your professors told you. Most translations go
back to the original documents.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets




Inabón Yunes July 27th 06 11:24 PM

How smart are fish ?
 
Not only is that the case, you know it but your faith won't let you remember
it.
Where are the original documents?
iy
"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message
...
Most translations go back to the original documents.
If what you say was true, then the many different translations would vary
greatly, and they would vary greatly over the years. But that is not the
case.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



RicSeyler wrote on 7/27/2006 12:11 PM:
Ever played the telephone game in school Wayne? Going through person
after person it never comes out the same
at the end of game.

Wayne Sallee wrote:

Inabón Yunes wrote on 7/26/2006 1:06 AM:

You see, there is a whole world outthere that sees the bible for what
it is worst. A bunch of papers translated from language to language
that are most likely so transformed that it says the opposite of what
they were intended.


Don't believe everything your professors told you. Most translations go
back to the original documents.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets




Inabón Yunes July 27th 06 11:44 PM

How smart are fish ?
 
Well Wayne, I knew better than to comment in your posts. I was stupid
enough to try to bring reason to an ignorant christian republican.
You guys make up the lowest class of the American society. In the future,
our descendants are going to make jokes of people that use to say things
like the ones you say.
Yeap! in the same way we laugh when read about Europeans threatening to
kill Gallileo for saying that the sun, not the Earth, was the center of our
solar system. In the same way in a few hundred years, people are going to
laugh at those that belief in creationism.
I give up!
iy
"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message
...
The similarities are something to look at, and are a good starting point,
but they don't prove anything, no more than the similarities in machines
and computers prove that they evolved from each other. Look at things in
the reef, many things at a casual observance from a novice would think
that they were the same, when a closer look shows them to be very
different, and some things that look very different are actually more
similar than those that look similar.

If you were a Martian doing a study on how machines evolved from one
another, some of the order of how you would say they evolved would be in
the same order that they were created, but some of the things would be in
no way the order that they were created.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



atomweaver wrote on 7/27/2006 11:40 AM:
Wayne Sallee wrote in news:44C8DC06.90900
@WayneSallee.com:

atomweaver wrote on 7/27/2006 11:18 AM:
Wayne Sallee wrote:
The fact that we are similar to animals has helped modern medicine,
not the theory of evolution.

How so?

DaveZ
Atom Weaver
How so what? how so are we similar, or how so has our similarities
helped modern medicine?

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets




How does the fact that we are similar to animals _not_ help the theory of
evolution?

DaveZ
Atom Weaver




RubenD July 28th 06 12:17 AM

How smart are fish ?
 
I HAVE YOUR ANSWER.

FISH ARE SMARTER THAN THE PEOPLE WRITING IN THESE POSTINGS, WHO BELIEVE
THEY KNOW EVERYTHING BUT HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO.

THIS THREAD IS NOTHING BUT A P'SING CONTEST WHICH EVERYBODY LOST AT START.

FOR CRYING ALOUD STOP THE NONSENSE AND FOCUS ON THE ACTUAL NEWSGROUP:

FISH.


PLEASE, DON'T BOTHER REPLYING UNLESS YOU ARE A FISH.
"Pszemol" wrote in message
...
I have a problem... in my huge wisom I have covered a side wall
of the fishtank with a mirror-foil. Just to cover the unpleasant view
behind of the tank... and to get some more light reflected back.
Today I let the fish in this new tank...

A pair of maroon clowns and hepatus tang get crazy seeing their
own reflection in the tank wall.

Now my title question: will they realize this is just a mirror
soon or they will continue to fight the other fish in the mirror?
How smart are they ?

It is difficult to take the foil off since it is in a tight space
between the tank and room wall... First day I turned off the lights
sooner and wonder what will the group advice be...
Should I go trought the trouble of removing the foil or the fish
will get used to this reflection soon ? If so, how soon will it be ?




Pszemol July 28th 06 06:04 AM

How smart are fish ?
 
"RubenD" wrote in message t...
I HAVE YOUR ANSWER.

FISH ARE SMARTER THAN THE PEOPLE WRITING IN THESE POSTINGS, WHO BELIEVE
THEY KNOW EVERYTHING BUT HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO.

THIS THREAD IS NOTHING BUT A P'SING CONTEST WHICH EVERYBODY LOST AT START.

FOR CRYING ALOUD STOP THE NONSENSE AND FOCUS ON THE ACTUAL NEWSGROUP:

FISH.


PLEASE, DON'T BOTHER REPLYING UNLESS YOU ARE A FISH.


Your Outlook Express has a magical function called "Ignore thread".
You can use it for threads you are not interested in...
Do it, instead trying to influence what we want to do here, ok? :-)

Wayne Sallee July 28th 06 04:11 PM

How smart are fish ?
 
Pszemol wrote on 7/27/2006 2:42 PM:
This one: ...


I'm going to assume that you don't know what you are typing.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


Pszemol July 28th 06 06:27 PM

How smart are fish ?
 
"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message ...
Pszemol wrote on 7/27/2006 2:42 PM:
This one: ...


I'm going to assume that you don't know what you are typing.


Why? Link did not work for you ?

Wayne Sallee July 28th 06 07:00 PM

How smart are fish ?
 
hehe nope, I don't subscribe to that news group server,
and even if I did, it still might not do anything
productive. It did add a stupid additional nonoperational
account that I had to delete to get it out of my way,
thank you :-)

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



Pszemol wrote on 7/28/2006 1:27 PM:
"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message
...
Pszemol wrote on 7/27/2006 2:42 PM:
This one: ...


I'm going to assume that you don't know what you are typing.


Why? Link did not work for you ?


Pszemol July 28th 06 08:00 PM

How smart are fish ?
 
"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message ...
hehe nope, I don't subscribe to that news group server,
and even if I did, it still might not do anything
productive. It did add a stupid additional nonoperational
account that I had to delete to get it out of my way,
thank you :-)


Looks like you Thunderbird does not understand proper
links to the newsgroups articles (the link was to the article
on you DEFAULT server not to the server itself).

Try this then: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...d2454f6138af6d


Wayne Sallee July 28th 06 08:46 PM

How smart are fish ?
 
No, the link was for "poczta.onet.pl". That's the
newsgroup server that you are using.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



Pszemol wrote on 7/28/2006 3:00 PM:
"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message
...
hehe nope, I don't subscribe to that news group server, and even if I
did, it still might not do anything productive. It did add a stupid
additional nonoperational account that I had to delete to get it out
of my way, thank you :-)


Looks like you Thunderbird does not understand proper
links to the newsgroups articles (the link was to the article
on you DEFAULT server not to the server itself).

Try this then:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...d2454f6138af6d



Pszemol July 28th 06 09:19 PM

How smart are fish ?
 
"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message ...
No, the link was for "poczta.onet.pl". That's the
newsgroup server that you are using.


You are incorrect again, but this is not the point of
this conversation.

Are you going to answer my question or you pass ?

Wayne Sallee July 28th 06 09:21 PM

How smart are fish ?
 
I just now did via e-mail. This thread is getting a bit
old for the newsgroup.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



Pszemol wrote on 7/28/2006 4:19 PM:
"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message
...
No, the link was for "poczta.onet.pl". That's the newsgroup server
that you are using.


You are incorrect again, but this is not the point of
this conversation.

Are you going to answer my question or you pass ?


Inabón Yunes July 29th 06 12:37 AM

How smart are fish ?
 
It gets even worst!
The "originals" were actually written in Greek which, at the time, was the
official written language. Or they use they Greek alphabets.
Remember, Paul to mention one, was a Roman...
iy
"Pszemol" wrote in message
...
"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message
...
Most translations go back to the original documents.


It is not true. I bet many european languages like
German, English, French were translated from the
Latin version, not from the original Hebrew/Aramaic...
And even so - each translating person/team will have different "flavor"
added to the translation...
It is impossible to translate word-to-word from
one language to another, especially so different
languages as English and Hebrew...

Do an experiment:
Try to do modern text translation from English to German,
hire two different translators, then get two Germant versions
of the same English text and compare them word-by-word.
I bet they will be different. Then hire another two translators
and ask them to translate these two German copies back
to English - you will be amazed what will you do in return.

If what you say was true, then the many different translations would vary
greatly, and they would vary greatly over the years. But that is not the
case.


They DO vary greatly.




Inabón Yunes July 29th 06 12:38 AM

How smart are fish ?
 
Agree 110%
iy
"RubenD" wrote in message
t...
I HAVE YOUR ANSWER.

FISH ARE SMARTER THAN THE PEOPLE WRITING IN THESE POSTINGS, WHO BELIEVE
THEY KNOW EVERYTHING BUT HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO.

THIS THREAD IS NOTHING BUT A P'SING CONTEST WHICH EVERYBODY LOST AT START.

FOR CRYING ALOUD STOP THE NONSENSE AND FOCUS ON THE ACTUAL NEWSGROUP:

FISH.


PLEASE, DON'T BOTHER REPLYING UNLESS YOU ARE A FISH.
"Pszemol" wrote in message
...
I have a problem... in my huge wisom I have covered a side wall
of the fishtank with a mirror-foil. Just to cover the unpleasant view
behind of the tank... and to get some more light reflected back.
Today I let the fish in this new tank...

A pair of maroon clowns and hepatus tang get crazy seeing their
own reflection in the tank wall.

Now my title question: will they realize this is just a mirror
soon or they will continue to fight the other fish in the mirror?
How smart are they ?

It is difficult to take the foil off since it is in a tight space
between the tank and room wall... First day I turned off the lights
sooner and wonder what will the group advice be...
Should I go trought the trouble of removing the foil or the fish
will get used to this reflection soon ? If so, how soon will it be ?






Boomer July 29th 06 12:53 AM

How smart are fish ?
 
I beginning to think that fish are smarter than all you guys arguing :-) God , no God.

Here is my take on it. . I don't "believe" either but if God or Jesus landed on the
shores of Lake Superior, where I live, I would be down there waving my hands :LOL

--
Boomer

If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up

Former US Army Bomb Technician (EOD)
Member; IABTI, NATEODA, WEODF, ISEE & IPS

Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php

Want to See More ! The Coral Realm
http://www.coralrealm.com






Wayne Sallee July 29th 06 05:35 PM

How smart are fish ?
 
What internet provider do you use? Do they not provide
newsgroups?

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



billyguy68 wrote on 7/29/2006 11:19 AM:
All of this has NOTHING to do with my reef aquarium. My daily digest
emails are worthless. I don't want to read a bunch of name calling and
pointless argueing. Is there someway I can filter these posting's to
only see the one's that are on the topic of the group -Aquariums???


Wayne Sallee wrote:
I just now did via e-mail. This thread is getting a bit
old for the newsgroup.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



Pszemol wrote on 7/28/2006 4:19 PM:
"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message
...
No, the link was for "poczta.onet.pl". That's the newsgroup server
that you are using.
You are incorrect again, but this is not the point of
this conversation.

Are you going to answer my question or you pass ?




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