Strange behavior...
 

No obvious animal tracks, and the kids in the neighborhood have pretty much
left the pond alone for the past two years - luckily the novelty wore off
for them.

Yes, I had a problem with a heron last year, BEFORE I bought the scarecrow.
And yes, there ARE submerged hiding places for them on the bottom of the
pond.... I sunk some in the fall for the frogs/fish to hide in if they chose
to. They seem to want to be at the top, near an edge, cramming themselves
into tight quarters. If I wasn't so worried about them it would almost be
funny, 5 huge koi all cramming into one tiny spot. :(
Sue
"Offbreed" wrote in message
...
SueAndHerZoo wrote:
BUT.... the fish are still
acting weird. I've removed the plant they were trying to hide behind,
so
now they are all trying to squeeze behind the rock border (the parts
that
hang down into the water) and they are all trying to cram themselves
into
the skimmer - I have to keep getting them out of there. What are they
hiding or running from??????

Just in case...

Do you have any big plant pots that would sink on their own you could
toss in the pond for them to hide in/under/behind? Some short sections
of black plastic pipe would work well (you could probably get a lumber
yard to chop one up for you), and might blend in on the bottem well
enough to just leave there.

You have mud, do you have otter tracks? Kid tracks? Any osprey or
heron in the area?

Strange behavior...
 

SueAndHerZoo wrote:
Thanks, everyone. Yes, the nitrites tested high, but of course I have to
wonder why, since I've never had this problem before, especially not when
it's still below freezing at night.

Did a big water change, got the filter/waterfall going, threw in two more
air stones (now there are four) and added some salt. (This is the first
time I've ever added salt to the pond). Tested for nitrites again a day
later and they are now "0", thank goodness, BUT.... the fish are still
acting weird. I've removed the plant they were trying to hide behind, so
now they are all trying to squeeze behind the rock border (the parts that
hang down into the water) and they are all trying to cram themselves into
the skimmer - I have to keep getting them out of there. What are they
hiding or running from??????

Just idle musing, but perhaps they aren't hiding from anything. Are these
items they are attempting to wedge themselves behind near the surface
and/or in an area with low current? Nitrite poisoning converts hemoglobin
into a form unable to transport oxygen. This effectively lowers the amount
of oxygen that the blood can carry to the organs. When nitrite gets too
high, it can even literally suffocate the fish from the inside by
converting too much hemoglobin. I have to wonder if their behavior is in
response to nitrite poisoning. They may be trying to wedge themselves to
conserve energy (no having to swim against current) because of the loss of
oxygen transport in their bloodstream due to the nitrites. This may be the
cause of the behavior, especially if their respiration appears to be
extreme too (gasping behaviors). You probably didn't observe it when temps
dropped to freezing at night because of the lower metabolism (less oxygen
demand) that accompanies lower temps.

Good news is you've done the right steps to mitigate nitrite poisoing
(water changes and adding salt) so if this is the cause, it should resolve
shortly. That is of course assuming there wasn't an ammonia spike before
the nitrite spike that damaged the gills. Some of the other behaviors you
described (darting across the surface of the water and jumping out) are
also consistent with ammonia poisoning. At this point though, you've done
the best you can in terms of remeding the water quality. Now is time to
monitor (both behavior and water parameters) and see.

Strange behavior...
 

SueAndHerZoo wrote:
Thanks, everyone. Yes, the nitrites tested high, but of course I have to
wonder why, since I've never had this problem before, especially not when
it's still below freezing at night.

Did a big water change, got the filter/waterfall going, threw in two more
air stones (now there are four) and added some salt. (This is the first
time I've ever added salt to the pond). Tested for nitrites again a day
later and they are now "0", thank goodness, BUT.... the fish are still
acting weird. I've removed the plant they were trying to hide behind, so
now they are all trying to squeeze behind the rock border (the parts that
hang down into the water) and they are all trying to cram themselves into
the skimmer - I have to keep getting them out of there. What are they
hiding or running from??????

Just idle musing, but perhaps they aren't hiding from anything. Are these
items they are attempting to wedge themselves behind near the surface
and/or in an area with low current? Nitrite poisoning converts hemoglobin
into a form unable to transport oxygen. This effectively lowers the amount
of oxygen that the blood can carry to the organs. When nitrite gets too
high, it can even literally suffocate the fish from the inside by
converting too much hemoglobin. I have to wonder if their behavior is in
response to nitrite poisoning. They may be trying to wedge themselves to
conserve energy (no having to swim against current) because of the loss of
oxygen transport in their bloodstream due to the nitrites. This may be the
cause of the behavior, especially if their respiration appears to be
extreme too (gasping behaviors). You probably didn't observe it when temps
dropped to freezing at night because of the lower metabolism (less oxygen
demand) that accompanies lower temps.

Good news is you've done the right steps to mitigate nitrite poisoing
(water changes and adding salt) so if this is the cause, it should resolve
shortly. That is of course assuming there wasn't an ammonia spike before
the nitrite spike that damaged the gills. Some of the other behaviors you
described (darting across the surface of the water and jumping out) are
also consistent with ammonia poisoning. At this point though, you've done
the best you can in terms of remeding the water quality. Now is time to
monitor (both behavior and water parameters) and see.

Strange behavior...
 

Oh, Thank you! That makes SO much sense, and I have no doubt that is what
the poor things are trying to do. Now I feel so badly for taking away the
plant that was keeping them motionless, and for continually trying to move
them away from the rocks they're hovering behind.

At this point I'm thinking I should give them back some things on the plant
ledge that will help them rest and stay immobile. Thank you again for
explaining WHY they are doing this - I have learned so much from this
experience, though unfortunately at the cost of my poor koi's health. I can
only hope I get the chance to make it up to them. (I've been growing a huge
container of red worms for them all winter in the garage - hope the fish
live long enough to enjoy them when the water finally warms up. It's
supposed to snow here today in Connecticut!
Sue
"Cichlidiot" wrote in message
...
SueAndHerZoo wrote:
Thanks, everyone. Yes, the nitrites tested high, but of course I have
to
wonder why, since I've never had this problem before, especially not
when
it's still below freezing at night.

Did a big water change, got the filter/waterfall going, threw in two
more
air stones (now there are four) and added some salt. (This is the
first
time I've ever added salt to the pond). Tested for nitrites again a
day
later and they are now "0", thank goodness, BUT.... the fish are still
acting weird. I've removed the plant they were trying to hide behind,
so
now they are all trying to squeeze behind the rock border (the parts
that
hang down into the water) and they are all trying to cram themselves
into
the skimmer - I have to keep getting them out of there. What are they
hiding or running from??????

Just idle musing, but perhaps they aren't hiding from anything. Are these
items they are attempting to wedge themselves behind near the surface
and/or in an area with low current? Nitrite poisoning converts hemoglobin
into a form unable to transport oxygen. This effectively lowers the amount
of oxygen that the blood can carry to the organs. When nitrite gets too
high, it can even literally suffocate the fish from the inside by
converting too much hemoglobin. I have to wonder if their behavior is in
response to nitrite poisoning. They may be trying to wedge themselves to
conserve energy (no having to swim against current) because of the loss of
oxygen transport in their bloodstream due to the nitrites. This may be the
cause of the behavior, especially if their respiration appears to be
extreme too (gasping behaviors). You probably didn't observe it when temps
dropped to freezing at night because of the lower metabolism (less oxygen
demand) that accompanies lower temps.

Good news is you've done the right steps to mitigate nitrite poisoing
(water changes and adding salt) so if this is the cause, it should resolve
shortly. That is of course assuming there wasn't an ammonia spike before
the nitrite spike that damaged the gills. Some of the other behaviors you
described (darting across the surface of the water and jumping out) are
also consistent with ammonia poisoning. At this point though, you've done
the best you can in terms of remeding the water quality. Now is time to
monitor (both behavior and water parameters) and see.

Strange behavior...
 

Oh, Thank you! That makes SO much sense, and I have no doubt that is what
the poor things are trying to do. Now I feel so badly for taking away the
plant that was keeping them motionless, and for continually trying to move
them away from the rocks they're hovering behind.

At this point I'm thinking I should give them back some things on the plant
ledge that will help them rest and stay immobile. Thank you again for
explaining WHY they are doing this - I have learned so much from this
experience, though unfortunately at the cost of my poor koi's health. I can
only hope I get the chance to make it up to them. (I've been growing a huge
container of red worms for them all winter in the garage - hope the fish
live long enough to enjoy them when the water finally warms up. It's
supposed to snow here today in Connecticut!
Sue
"Cichlidiot" wrote in message
...
SueAndHerZoo wrote:
Thanks, everyone. Yes, the nitrites tested high, but of course I have
to
wonder why, since I've never had this problem before, especially not
when
it's still below freezing at night.

Did a big water change, got the filter/waterfall going, threw in two
more
air stones (now there are four) and added some salt. (This is the
first
time I've ever added salt to the pond). Tested for nitrites again a
day
later and they are now "0", thank goodness, BUT.... the fish are still
acting weird. I've removed the plant they were trying to hide behind,
so
now they are all trying to squeeze behind the rock border (the parts
that
hang down into the water) and they are all trying to cram themselves
into
the skimmer - I have to keep getting them out of there. What are they
hiding or running from??????

Just idle musing, but perhaps they aren't hiding from anything. Are these
items they are attempting to wedge themselves behind near the surface
and/or in an area with low current? Nitrite poisoning converts hemoglobin
into a form unable to transport oxygen. This effectively lowers the amount
of oxygen that the blood can carry to the organs. When nitrite gets too
high, it can even literally suffocate the fish from the inside by
converting too much hemoglobin. I have to wonder if their behavior is in
response to nitrite poisoning. They may be trying to wedge themselves to
conserve energy (no having to swim against current) because of the loss of
oxygen transport in their bloodstream due to the nitrites. This may be the
cause of the behavior, especially if their respiration appears to be
extreme too (gasping behaviors). You probably didn't observe it when temps
dropped to freezing at night because of the lower metabolism (less oxygen
demand) that accompanies lower temps.

Good news is you've done the right steps to mitigate nitrite poisoing
(water changes and adding salt) so if this is the cause, it should resolve
shortly. That is of course assuming there wasn't an ammonia spike before
the nitrite spike that damaged the gills. Some of the other behaviors you
described (darting across the surface of the water and jumping out) are
also consistent with ammonia poisoning. At this point though, you've done
the best you can in terms of remeding the water quality. Now is time to
monitor (both behavior and water parameters) and see.

Strange behavior...
 

where in Ct. are you I am in RI.
"SueAndHerZoo" wrote in message
news:PpC5c.6596$rQ.2806@lakeread04...
Oh, Thank you! That makes SO much sense, and I have no doubt that is
what
the poor things are trying to do. Now I feel so badly for taking away
the
plant that was keeping them motionless, and for continually trying to move
them away from the rocks they're hovering behind.

At this point I'm thinking I should give them back some things on the
plant
ledge that will help them rest and stay immobile. Thank you again for
explaining WHY they are doing this - I have learned so much from this
experience, though unfortunately at the cost of my poor koi's health. I
can
only hope I get the chance to make it up to them. (I've been growing a
huge
container of red worms for them all winter in the garage - hope the fish
live long enough to enjoy them when the water finally warms up. It's
supposed to snow here today in Connecticut!
Sue
"Cichlidiot" wrote in message
...
SueAndHerZoo wrote:
Thanks, everyone. Yes, the nitrites tested high, but of course I
have
to
wonder why, since I've never had this problem before, especially not
when
it's still below freezing at night.

Did a big water change, got the filter/waterfall going, threw in two
more
air stones (now there are four) and added some salt. (This is the
first
time I've ever added salt to the pond). Tested for nitrites again a
day
later and they are now "0", thank goodness, BUT.... the fish are still
acting weird. I've removed the plant they were trying to hide
behind,
so
now they are all trying to squeeze behind the rock border (the parts
that
hang down into the water) and they are all trying to cram themselves
into
the skimmer - I have to keep getting them out of there. What are they
hiding or running from??????

Just idle musing, but perhaps they aren't hiding from anything. Are
these
items they are attempting to wedge themselves behind near the surface
and/or in an area with low current? Nitrite poisoning converts
hemoglobin
into a form unable to transport oxygen. This effectively lowers the
amount
of oxygen that the blood can carry to the organs. When nitrite gets too
high, it can even literally suffocate the fish from the inside by
converting too much hemoglobin. I have to wonder if their behavior is in
response to nitrite poisoning. They may be trying to wedge themselves to
conserve energy (no having to swim against current) because of the loss
of
oxygen transport in their bloodstream due to the nitrites. This may be
the
cause of the behavior, especially if their respiration appears to be
extreme too (gasping behaviors). You probably didn't observe it when
temps
dropped to freezing at night because of the lower metabolism (less
oxygen
demand) that accompanies lower temps.

Good news is you've done the right steps to mitigate nitrite poisoing
(water changes and adding salt) so if this is the cause, it should
resolve
shortly. That is of course assuming there wasn't an ammonia spike before
the nitrite spike that damaged the gills. Some of the other behaviors
you
described (darting across the surface of the water and jumping out) are
also consistent with ammonia poisoning. At this point though, you've
done
the best you can in terms of remeding the water quality. Now is time to
monitor (both behavior and water parameters) and see.

Strange behavior...
 

where in Ct. are you I am in RI.
"SueAndHerZoo" wrote in message
news:PpC5c.6596$rQ.2806@lakeread04...
Oh, Thank you! That makes SO much sense, and I have no doubt that is
what
the poor things are trying to do. Now I feel so badly for taking away
the
plant that was keeping them motionless, and for continually trying to move
them away from the rocks they're hovering behind.

At this point I'm thinking I should give them back some things on the
plant
ledge that will help them rest and stay immobile. Thank you again for
explaining WHY they are doing this - I have learned so much from this
experience, though unfortunately at the cost of my poor koi's health. I
can
only hope I get the chance to make it up to them. (I've been growing a
huge
container of red worms for them all winter in the garage - hope the fish
live long enough to enjoy them when the water finally warms up. It's
supposed to snow here today in Connecticut!
Sue
"Cichlidiot" wrote in message
...
SueAndHerZoo wrote:
Thanks, everyone. Yes, the nitrites tested high, but of course I
have
to
wonder why, since I've never had this problem before, especially not
when
it's still below freezing at night.

Did a big water change, got the filter/waterfall going, threw in two
more
air stones (now there are four) and added some salt. (This is the
first
time I've ever added salt to the pond). Tested for nitrites again a
day
later and they are now "0", thank goodness, BUT.... the fish are still
acting weird. I've removed the plant they were trying to hide
behind,
so
now they are all trying to squeeze behind the rock border (the parts
that
hang down into the water) and they are all trying to cram themselves
into
the skimmer - I have to keep getting them out of there. What are they
hiding or running from??????

Just idle musing, but perhaps they aren't hiding from anything. Are
these
items they are attempting to wedge themselves behind near the surface
and/or in an area with low current? Nitrite poisoning converts
hemoglobin
into a form unable to transport oxygen. This effectively lowers the
amount
of oxygen that the blood can carry to the organs. When nitrite gets too
high, it can even literally suffocate the fish from the inside by
converting too much hemoglobin. I have to wonder if their behavior is in
response to nitrite poisoning. They may be trying to wedge themselves to
conserve energy (no having to swim against current) because of the loss
of
oxygen transport in their bloodstream due to the nitrites. This may be
the
cause of the behavior, especially if their respiration appears to be
extreme too (gasping behaviors). You probably didn't observe it when
temps
dropped to freezing at night because of the lower metabolism (less
oxygen
demand) that accompanies lower temps.

Good news is you've done the right steps to mitigate nitrite poisoing
(water changes and adding salt) so if this is the cause, it should
resolve
shortly. That is of course assuming there wasn't an ammonia spike before
the nitrite spike that damaged the gills. Some of the other behaviors
you
described (darting across the surface of the water and jumping out) are
also consistent with ammonia poisoning. At this point though, you've
done
the best you can in terms of remeding the water quality. Now is time to
monitor (both behavior and water parameters) and see.

Strange behavior...
 

This is a good time to mention that everyone should be checking their water
quality about now. Especially if the fish are acting strange.

Water tests should be done at room temperature, and I don't mean you do
them inside, you bring the water in and let it warm up to room temperature.
If you're showing ammonia, DO NOT do a water change, first treat the
ammonia with Amquell or similar product, to de-tox the ammonia, then you
can do a water change. Otherwise, if you do the change and your pH is
higher than in the pond, you could make the ammonia poisoning even worst.
If one has nitrite showing, they probably had an ammonia problem prior to.
Check your pH and your Kh, both affect the toxicity of ammonia. Ammonia
treat with a de-toxer (i.e., Amquell, ChloramX) and Nitrite treat with
salt as mentioned earlier in this thread.
~ jan (How's your water quality today?)

On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 07:26:32 -0500, "SueAndHerZoo" wrote:

Oh, Thank you! That makes SO much sense, and I have no doubt that is what
the poor things are trying to do. Now I feel so badly for taking away the
plant that was keeping them motionless, and for continually trying to move
them away from the rocks they're hovering behind.

At this point I'm thinking I should give them back some things on the plant
ledge that will help them rest and stay immobile. Thank you again for
explaining WHY they are doing this - I have learned so much from this
experience, though unfortunately at the cost of my poor koi's health. I can
only hope I get the chance to make it up to them. (I've been growing a huge
container of red worms for them all winter in the garage - hope the fish
live long enough to enjoy them when the water finally warms up. It's
supposed to snow here today in Connecticut!
Sue
"Cichlidiot" wrote in message
...
SueAndHerZoo wrote:
Thanks, everyone. Yes, the nitrites tested high, but of course I have
to
wonder why, since I've never had this problem before, especially not
when
it's still below freezing at night.

Did a big water change, got the filter/waterfall going, threw in two
more
air stones (now there are four) and added some salt. (This is the
first
time I've ever added salt to the pond). Tested for nitrites again a
day
later and they are now "0", thank goodness, BUT.... the fish are still
acting weird. I've removed the plant they were trying to hide behind,
so
now they are all trying to squeeze behind the rock border (the parts
that
hang down into the water) and they are all trying to cram themselves
into
the skimmer - I have to keep getting them out of there. What are they
hiding or running from??????

Just idle musing, but perhaps they aren't hiding from anything. Are these
items they are attempting to wedge themselves behind near the surface
and/or in an area with low current? Nitrite poisoning converts hemoglobin
into a form unable to transport oxygen. This effectively lowers the amount
of oxygen that the blood can carry to the organs. When nitrite gets too
high, it can even literally suffocate the fish from the inside by
converting too much hemoglobin. I have to wonder if their behavior is in
response to nitrite poisoning. They may be trying to wedge themselves to
conserve energy (no having to swim against current) because of the loss of
oxygen transport in their bloodstream due to the nitrites. This may be the
cause of the behavior, especially if their respiration appears to be
extreme too (gasping behaviors). You probably didn't observe it when temps
dropped to freezing at night because of the lower metabolism (less oxygen
demand) that accompanies lower temps.

Good news is you've done the right steps to mitigate nitrite poisoing
(water changes and adding salt) so if this is the cause, it should resolve
shortly. That is of course assuming there wasn't an ammonia spike before
the nitrite spike that damaged the gills. Some of the other behaviors you
described (darting across the surface of the water and jumping out) are
also consistent with ammonia poisoning. At this point though, you've done
the best you can in terms of remeding the water quality. Now is time to
monitor (both behavior and water parameters) and see.

Strange behavior...
 

This is a good time to mention that everyone should be checking their water
quality about now. Especially if the fish are acting strange.

Water tests should be done at room temperature, and I don't mean you do
them inside, you bring the water in and let it warm up to room temperature.
If you're showing ammonia, DO NOT do a water change, first treat the
ammonia with Amquell or similar product, to de-tox the ammonia, then you
can do a water change. Otherwise, if you do the change and your pH is
higher than in the pond, you could make the ammonia poisoning even worst.
If one has nitrite showing, they probably had an ammonia problem prior to.
Check your pH and your Kh, both affect the toxicity of ammonia. Ammonia
treat with a de-toxer (i.e., Amquell, ChloramX) and Nitrite treat with
salt as mentioned earlier in this thread.
~ jan (How's your water quality today?)

On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 07:26:32 -0500, "SueAndHerZoo" wrote:

Oh, Thank you! That makes SO much sense, and I have no doubt that is what
the poor things are trying to do. Now I feel so badly for taking away the
plant that was keeping them motionless, and for continually trying to move
them away from the rocks they're hovering behind.

At this point I'm thinking I should give them back some things on the plant
ledge that will help them rest and stay immobile. Thank you again for
explaining WHY they are doing this - I have learned so much from this
experience, though unfortunately at the cost of my poor koi's health. I can
only hope I get the chance to make it up to them. (I've been growing a huge
container of red worms for them all winter in the garage - hope the fish
live long enough to enjoy them when the water finally warms up. It's
supposed to snow here today in Connecticut!
Sue
"Cichlidiot" wrote in message
...
SueAndHerZoo wrote:
Thanks, everyone. Yes, the nitrites tested high, but of course I have
to
wonder why, since I've never had this problem before, especially not
when
it's still below freezing at night.

Did a big water change, got the filter/waterfall going, threw in two
more
air stones (now there are four) and added some salt. (This is the
first
time I've ever added salt to the pond). Tested for nitrites again a
day
later and they are now "0", thank goodness, BUT.... the fish are still
acting weird. I've removed the plant they were trying to hide behind,
so
now they are all trying to squeeze behind the rock border (the parts
that
hang down into the water) and they are all trying to cram themselves
into
the skimmer - I have to keep getting them out of there. What are they
hiding or running from??????

Just idle musing, but perhaps they aren't hiding from anything. Are these
items they are attempting to wedge themselves behind near the surface
and/or in an area with low current? Nitrite poisoning converts hemoglobin
into a form unable to transport oxygen. This effectively lowers the amount
of oxygen that the blood can carry to the organs. When nitrite gets too
high, it can even literally suffocate the fish from the inside by
converting too much hemoglobin. I have to wonder if their behavior is in
response to nitrite poisoning. They may be trying to wedge themselves to
conserve energy (no having to swim against current) because of the loss of
oxygen transport in their bloodstream due to the nitrites. This may be the
cause of the behavior, especially if their respiration appears to be
extreme too (gasping behaviors). You probably didn't observe it when temps
dropped to freezing at night because of the lower metabolism (less oxygen
demand) that accompanies lower temps.

Good news is you've done the right steps to mitigate nitrite poisoing
(water changes and adding salt) so if this is the cause, it should resolve
shortly. That is of course assuming there wasn't an ammonia spike before
the nitrite spike that damaged the gills. Some of the other behaviors you
described (darting across the surface of the water and jumping out) are
also consistent with ammonia poisoning. At this point though, you've done
the best you can in terms of remeding the water quality. Now is time to
monitor (both behavior and water parameters) and see.