New Tank Still Struggling??
 

On 24 Mar 2006 07:40:16 -0800, "Frank"
wrote:

Seems like I acclimate quite a bit different than most people. I hace a
10 gal. quarantine tank that has a foot print of a 5 gal. tank, just
twice as high. I only buy fish from a couple of mom and pop stores that
I know they know how to treat and keep healthy fish. I only buy healthy
active fish, fins erect, smooth skin with a wet look shine, clear

Just before sitting down at my computer, I finally got my 10 gallon QT
tank up and running. Seeded the filter with a very ripe biosponge from
a very old tank, at the same time set up a couple of sponge filters in
that old tank with a slow bubbling air pump, just to sit there for a
few weeks and be ready for whatever whenever.

-- Mister Gardener

New Tank Still Struggling??
 

"Mr. Gardener" wrote in message
...
On 24 Mar 2006 07:40:16 -0800, "Frank"
wrote:

Seems like I acclimate quite a bit different than most people. I hace a
10 gal. quarantine tank that has a foot print of a 5 gal. tank, just
twice as high. I only buy fish from a couple of mom and pop stores that
I know they know how to treat and keep healthy fish. I only buy healthy
active fish, fins erect, smooth skin with a wet look shine, clear

Just before sitting down at my computer, I finally got my 10 gallon QT
tank up and running. Seeded the filter with a very ripe biosponge from
a very old tank, at the same time set up a couple of sponge filters in
that old tank with a slow bubbling air pump, just to sit there for a
few weeks and be ready for whatever whenever.

-- Mister Gardener

Don't forget to periodically feed the tank's bacteria. A sprinkle of flake
food should do.
--
www.NetMax.tk

New Tank Still Struggling??
 

Frank wrote:
Mr. Gardener wrote,
more difficult for a fish to go from hard water to soft
than it is to go from soft to hard. I don't know if it's true.......

It's true - a sudden drop of 25% TDS will kill some species, mostly
smaller species.

You got me curious. A drop from 100 ppm to 75 ppm is a much larger drop
than 10 ppm to 7.5 ppm. I like to do 50% water changes and if I do them
weekly I don't seem to have any problems. It keeps the KH nice and
high, my water stays very low in DOC, and the tank water is closer to
tap water for when I decide to move fish around or put new ones in
quarantine. What's the threshold where the TDS make less of a
difference, or is there one?

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to reply.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

New Tank Still Struggling??
 

Again, Thanks for the responses.

I should have phrased it that I changed the 'bio-bag', leaving the
bio-sponge in place, thinking that there would be enough bacteria in
the sponge, gravel etc, to handle the load . . . but perhaps not. At
this point, I'm chalking it up to a combination of the filter change,
increasing the bio load, and acclimation. The other fish in the tank
seem fine, then again, my original Molly survived the cycle period with
high Ammonia/Nitrites so that doesn't surprise me.

I never pour water from the lfs into my tank. I learned that on day 1.
However, next time I will take more steps then floating the bag for 15
min to acclimate.

Jon

New Tank Still Struggling??
 

On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 12:50:41 -0500, "NetMax"
wrote:

"Mr. Gardener" wrote in message
.. .
On 24 Mar 2006 07:40:16 -0800, "Frank"
wrote:

Seems like I acclimate quite a bit different than most people. I hace a
10 gal. quarantine tank that has a foot print of a 5 gal. tank, just
twice as high. I only buy fish from a couple of mom and pop stores that
I know they know how to treat and keep healthy fish. I only buy healthy
active fish, fins erect, smooth skin with a wet look shine, clear

Just before sitting down at my computer, I finally got my 10 gallon QT
tank up and running. Seeded the filter with a very ripe biosponge from
a very old tank, at the same time set up a couple of sponge filters in
that old tank with a slow bubbling air pump, just to sit there for a
few weeks and be ready for whatever whenever.

-- Mister Gardener

Don't forget to periodically feed the tank's bacteria. A sprinkle of flake
food should do.

Oh, I've already given the new tank a loading dose of ammonia, urea,
probably some trace elements. A method mentioned in a TFH column. You
didn't want to know before, you don't want to ask now. I think someone
said TMI.

-- Mister Gardener

New Tank Still Struggling??
 

On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 17:52:41 GMT, Altum
wrote:

Frank wrote:
Mr. Gardener wrote,
more difficult for a fish to go from hard water to soft
than it is to go from soft to hard. I don't know if it's true.......

It's true - a sudden drop of 25% TDS will kill some species, mostly
smaller species.

You got me curious. A drop from 100 ppm to 75 ppm is a much larger drop
than 10 ppm to 7.5 ppm. I like to do 50% water changes and if I do them
weekly I don't seem to have any problems. It keeps the KH nice and
high, my water stays very low in DOC, and the tank water is closer to
tap water for when I decide to move fish around or put new ones in
quarantine. What's the threshold where the TDS make less of a
difference, or is there one?

Is this a rhetorical question? Hope so.

-- Mister Gardener

New Tank Still Struggling??
 

On 24 Mar 2006 11:31:03 -0800, "Frank"
wrote:

Altum wrote,
I like to do 50% water changes and if I do them weekly I don't seem to have any problems.

Breeding and raising fish for 40+ years, I fed 5 and 6 times a day. A
lot of my grow-out tanks were those cheap 29 gal. tanks, of which I
raised as many as 150 fish to selling size. That took a couple of the
larger air-driven sponge filters, an airstone or two, and a *lot* of
water changing. After last feed for the day, I siphoned 15 to 20% of
the water from the bottom and squeezed the filters clean, 24/7. This
kept my tanks clean and the fish healthy. I always had trouble
acclimating my fish into the different stores tanks - pH shock, back
then! ... Today, it's the other way around - I buy fish from two
different stores. They both keep healthy fish, but they don't change
near as much water as I do. Their tanks/water is quite a bit softer
than mine, and of corse today we don't call it pH shock anymore. Now
it's TDS shock, even though most of the stores still call it pH shock.

What's the threshold where the TDS make less of a difference, or is there one? ...

Not wanting to misunderstand your question, I think the answer your
looking for is 25%. I see what your getting at, 100ppm - 75ppm = 25ppm,
10ppm - 7.5ppm = 2.5ppm, but, is not the percentage of total volume the
same?
.............. Frank
Another rhetorical question, I hope.

I talked recently with my lfs about the wide difference between my
water and his and he blah blah 90% of the fish he sells are so many
generations away from their origins that they can do fine anywhere
from 6.5 to 8.5 and all degrees of hardness. Yeah but . . . I'm
thinking of bringing home some big jugs of his water to begin
acclimating my young to his store a week or so before the fish get
moved. He then told me that he and his supplier talked about some of
the losses he's been seeing, especially in his rainforest fish and the
guy's about got him talked into setting up a few tanks and maintaining
them for his south american cats and angels and rams and stuff. I'm
nudging him along, do it do it do it.

-- Mister Gardener

New Tank Still Struggling??
 

Frank wrote:
Altum wrote,

snip

What's the threshold where the TDS make less of a difference, or is there one? ...

Not wanting to misunderstand your question, I think the answer your
looking for is 25%. I see what your getting at, 100ppm - 75ppm = 25ppm,
10ppm - 7.5ppm = 2.5ppm, but, is not the percentage of total volume the
same?
.............. Frank

Right. But a drop from 10 to 7.5 ppm shouldn't be as physiologically
taxing as one from 100 to 75 ppm. Both would be 25% water changes. I
guess I'm trying to ask whether you ALWAYS advocate changing only 25% of
the water, or whether you can reach a point where it doesn't matter any
more because the tank water is close enough to tap water.

Are my regular 50% water changes harming my fish in ways that I can't
see or measure? How about my betta at work who gets a 100% weekly water
change. He seems fine...

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to reply.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

New Tank Still Struggling??
 

Mr. Gardener wrote:
On 24 Mar 2006 11:31:03 -0800, "Frank"
wrote:


Altum wrote,

I like to do 50% water changes and if I do them weekly I don't seem to have any problems.

Breeding and raising fish for 40+ years, I fed 5 and 6 times a day. A
lot of my grow-out tanks were those cheap 29 gal. tanks, of which I
raised as many as 150 fish to selling size. That took a couple of the
larger air-driven sponge filters, an airstone or two, and a *lot* of
water changing. After last feed for the day, I siphoned 15 to 20% of
the water from the bottom and squeezed the filters clean, 24/7. This
kept my tanks clean and the fish healthy. I always had trouble
acclimating my fish into the different stores tanks - pH shock, back
then! ... Today, it's the other way around - I buy fish from two
different stores. They both keep healthy fish, but they don't change
near as much water as I do. Their tanks/water is quite a bit softer
than mine, and of corse today we don't call it pH shock anymore. Now
it's TDS shock, even though most of the stores still call it pH shock.


What's the threshold where the TDS make less of a difference, or is there one? ...

Not wanting to misunderstand your question, I think the answer your
looking for is 25%. I see what your getting at, 100ppm - 75ppm = 25ppm,
10ppm - 7.5ppm = 2.5ppm, but, is not the percentage of total volume the
same?
.............. Frank

Another rhetorical question, I hope.

I talked recently with my lfs about the wide difference between my
water and his and he blah blah 90% of the fish he sells are so many
generations away from their origins that they can do fine anywhere
from 6.5 to 8.5 and all degrees of hardness. Yeah but . . . I'm
thinking of bringing home some big jugs of his water to begin
acclimating my young to his store a week or so before the fish get
moved. He then told me that he and his supplier talked about some of
the losses he's been seeing, especially in his rainforest fish and the
guy's about got him talked into setting up a few tanks and maintaining
them for his south american cats and angels and rams and stuff. I'm
nudging him along, do it do it do it.

-- Mister Gardener

My places have the same water as me so I guess I'm lucky but I won't buy
fish until they have totally aclimatised to the water (they usually give
them 4 days unless there is a problem) I usually leave it at least 2
weeks. It has nothing to do with the origins in this case but the
conditions that they are kept under....losses will be greater where
water conditions see big variations (and I'm talking new purchased fish)
- even where my local conditions are comparable however carefully I drip
the water in I still see losses and this is with comparable water
hardness/pH - it might be from other issues I don't know for sure.....If
they set up tanks specifically for certain fish they need to label them
clearly - one place I went to a few weeks ago clearly labelled that
their Discus are kept in RO water with peat extract and so therefore
great care needs to be taken when introducing them to local conditions....

Gill

New Tank Still Struggling??
 

Altum wrote,
I guess what I'm trying to ask whether you ALWAYS advocate changing only 25% of the water.......

I "ALWAYS" advocate changing *20%* - for those that only do small (20%
or less) weekly water changes.

Are my regular 50% water changes harming..........

Key word here is "regular". TDS in your tap water isn't going to
suddenly change from week to week. Highly unlikely DOCs could build up
quick enough within a week to change TDS unless you have a large
fish/goldfish tank filtered with a canister filter. No, weekly 50% wate
changes - your fish should be doing great! It's the people that only
do 10 or 20% water changes every week or two and says their tank looks
and test great. These are the people that kill their fish due to
osmotic pressure shock ;-) ............ Frank