Should we use Ocean Water in our Saltwater Aquarium?
 

"Guayni; SAHS" wrote in message ...
Just one comment about my tank. It is no sewer, not even close. I have it
in my den and everyone that comes to my house and has a glass of Brandy with
me enjoys it and wants to have one of my filters.

And they watch your tank after or before drinking this brandy ?

Again, as soon as I upgrade the lighting system I will put pictures on my
website.

Make these pictures quickly after installing lights
because about a week from increasing light in 100mg/l nitrates
you will have nothing there but ugly algae like on a dirty
beaches of Florida Keys next to the sewer outlets :-)

Lets see how far can I go with a water change.
Eventually I will but not before I make all my tests.

What tests you are missing ? Everything is clear from
the test results you have posted on your website: your water is DIRTY.

Should we use Ocean Water in our Saltwater Aquarium?
 

On Thu, 7 Dec 2006 19:24:54 -0500, "Guayni; SAHS"
wrote:

snip a bunch of hula baloo

Last but not least, why answer to my posts using my name? you are not
anyone I know, leave that to people that know me.

With an attitude like that I am sure you will go far.


If you think that by having a reef tank and observing what happens makes you
better prepared than a coastal marine biologist, you are not telling the
truth to yourself.

Your not stuck on yurself are you?

Now, I think that you rely on aquarists handbooks and references, not me. I
rely on experience and real scientific work again, IN THE ONLY TROPICAL
COAST UNDER US JURISDICTION. There is also the VI but they don't have a
university program that attracts students from all over the world.

I know of real doctors that managed to kill their patiets too so
professional anyhting is not a bona fide anything that reallay means
much. For example Rom Shimek, a so called noted marine bioilogist who
contradicts what he says in the next paragraph he writes. Titles mean
nothing...

Put aside your cookbooks for aquarists and go to any university and read the
real thing.

Last I looked not too many marine fish keeprs or reef keeprs cooked
their critters. You have this forum confused with
rec.homestyle.cooking group. They use cook books.


"Pszemol" wrote in message
...
"Guayni; SAHS" wrote in message
.. .
I did say that my tank is experimental and the filtering system is under
development. It is, altogether, a 95 gal FWLR system. No corals yet.
I know this is a reef newsgroup but is also the only group with great
information. Reef aquariums don't have to have corals. I will upgrade
later when I get my new T5 lighting.

Well, think about it for a moment:
You are educated marine biologist but have no experience with reef tanks
(I am talking about the REAL reef tanks, with corals as the main bioload!)
It does not stop you from offering your advices on a reef forums and
suggesting that water changes are totally not necessary in the reef tank,
giving an example your own tank without water changes since January
BUT YOU HAVE NO CORALS...

What is wrong with this picture, Jaime?


BTW-
I have checked the website you linked (http://www.guayni.com/mytank.htm)
and I noticed that the measurements history does not start at January '06.
Do you have any data from before September ? Could you share them online ?
Also - please note EXTREMELY high readings for nutrients in your tank:
you show 100mg/l of nitrates and 1mg/l phosphates. Maybe this can be
tolerated by fish only tank, but it is not very healthy for fish...
With this levels of nitrates they are in constant stress and their growth
is retarded. These kind of water conditions are absolutely impossible
in a successful reef tank where you strive to keep nitrates below 10mg/l
(better below 5mg/l) and phosphates below 0.1mg/l - less is better.
Concentration of these ions in your tank is 10x greater...

I can tell you already, with such high nutrients level in your tank
adding more light will cause your tank turn into mud pond full of algae.
There is no way to have a reef tank with 100mg/l of nitrates and 1mg/l of
phosphates - that is why we, REEF tank owners, change the water
periodically.

Once again: read some books about reef tanks, prepare your tank properly,
buy some easy to keep corals "for begginers" (leather, mushrooms, etc)
and when you gain some experience with keeping corals get some more
demanding coral species. Keep them in good health growing and looking
good for a year or two and then you will be equipped in some bare
minimal experience to share advices on a reef tank newsgroups...

Do not be the second "boOger1" on this newsgroup who states he does not
see the reason for water changes in a reef tank, but himself he does
not have any reef tank experience... His claims are very similar to yours:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...1bb113fa0b0385
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...5c6ba77311f288

So far your advices about no changing water do more harm than good!

Seriously - please do - not one - do SEVERAL 20-30% water changes
for the sake of good health and well being of your marine animals...

Take care,
Pszemol.


I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

Should we use Ocean Water in our Saltwater Aquarium?
 

What fellow is that Pszemol....Guyan or Shimek.....Shimek is not held
in too high of esteem by many reefers at all. He just has way to many
unsubstaantiated opinions in his books, that has no facts behind them
other than opinion. Others however have facts and a bona fide reason
behind their statements. Now don;t ask me what ones I am referencing
because its been awhile, but at the time I had lots of faulty info
piointedouyt to me by folks in the know, such as Anthony Calfo when I
met him at a trade show. I put a lot of my faithin people like Anthony
Calfo, Mr. Fenner, Julian Sprung, and non of them have a problem with
being called by their first name either like Guyan does. I am sure
you now Calfo and the others I speak of. I have to digout my one soft
cover book by Shimek and see if I had any data corrected from what he
had printed. Hey even the so called top dogs lie when it comes to book
writing.........look at former president Carter, he has a book which
is supposedly full of half truths and wrong info....

Regards



On Thu, 7 Dec 2006 20:07:42 -0600, "Pszemol"
wrote:

"Tristan" wrote in message ...
I know of real doctors that managed to kill their patiets too so
professional anyhting is not a bona fide anything that reallay means
much. For example Rom Shimek, a so called noted marine bioilogist
who contradicts what he says in the next paragraph he writes.
Titles mean nothing...

Well, I have not caught him on contradictions yet - do not want
to change the topic too much, but maybe you provide some
details here? I have read a lot what dr Shimek has written and
I think this fellow really knows what is he talking about... :-)

I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

Should we use Ocean Water in our Saltwater Aquarium?
 

"Tristan" wrote in message ...
I know of real doctors that managed to kill their patiets too so
professional anyhting is not a bona fide anything that reallay means
much. For example Rom Shimek, a so called noted marine bioilogist
who contradicts what he says in the next paragraph he writes.
Titles mean nothing...

Well, I have not caught him on contradictions yet - do not want
to change the topic too much, but maybe you provide some
details here? I have read a lot what dr Shimek has written and
I think this fellow really knows what is he talking about... :-)

Should we use Ocean Water in our Saltwater Aquarium?
 

"Tristan" wrote in message ...
What fellow is that Pszemol....Guyan or Shimek.....Shimek is not held
in too high of esteem by many reefers at all. He just has way to many
unsubstaantiated opinions in his books, that has no facts behind them
other than opinion. Others however have facts and a bona fide reason
behind their statements. Now don;t ask me what ones I am referencing
because its been awhile, but at the time I had lots of faulty info
piointedouyt to me by folks in the know, such as Anthony Calfo when I
met him at a trade show. I put a lot of my faithin people like Anthony
Calfo, Mr. Fenner, Julian Sprung, and non of them have a problem with
being called by their first name either like Guyan does. I am sure
you now Calfo and the others I speak of. I have to digout my one soft
cover book by Shimek and see if I had any data corrected from what he
had printed. Hey even the so called top dogs lie when it comes to book
writing.........look at former president Carter, he has a book which
is supposedly full of half truths and wrong info....

Well... if you find some data in the book let me know - I would love to hear about it.
Note - so far you yourself have not substantiated your opinions about dr Shimek...
Do not criticize somebody for what you doing yourself :-)))

Should we use Ocean Water in our Saltwater Aquarium?
 

Thanks again, this conversation is going nowhere.

"Pszemol" wrote in message
...
"Guayni; SAHS" wrote in message
...
Thanks for your concerns!
It is simple, I am not, nor I claim to be a hobbyist of marine aquariums.
I am a seasoned coastal marine biologists that found people spending
more than they need to in tanks.

These people probably would not be satisfied with 100mg/l nitrates
and 1mg/l of phosphates in their tanks :-)

Just because my EXPERIMENTAL tank don't have any corals YET, doesn't mean
I am not qualified for any of my services.
I have worked and service many university tanks used in studies in Puerto
Rico (Caribbean! Tropical! and the only true tropical reefs in US
jurisdiction) and Central Florida.

Labolatory tanks are built for different purpose than hobbyist tanks.
I would like to see the university/lab tanks without water change for a
year :-)

Is OK that you have to protect the reason behind your expensive
investments. I never tried to argue with aquarists, I just gave my humble
opinion that most of these gadgets are draining people's pockets and, as
far as I know, more experienced aquarists agree with me here.

What can you know about my "expensive" investments ?
I have a SeaClone skimmer for $60 and home made light fixture for 2x96W.
Couple of powerheads and a ghetto "sump" made of a $8 10 gallon tank...
I use this equipment for many years now - I would not call it expensive!

As for the readings on my tank, I hope you read the note before the data
explaining why it only contains data for the past months. Basically, I
started anew with a different testing set and better monitors. I didn't
want to put there two different sets of readings from different methods,
it just doesn't work that way.
Nevertheless, the water in that tank has been running without a water
change since Jan06. Of course is not the same water, the original one
has evaporated a long time ago with routine water additions to
compensate.

I am well aware of the fact that I am not a conventional aquarist, never
tried to be one. I am just bringing to this group another perspective.

What another perspective you bring ?
The one when you do not change the water for a year than the nitrates
go to the roof and the readings are over 100mg/l ? It is common sense!
This is nothing new in this hobby... :-)

You can agree or disagree on my methods

Your methods ? You have not presented ANY methods for a reef tank!
You have shown a dirty fish-only tank with water poluted with
fish waste beyond imagination. What "methods" you refer to ?
Your method is quite simple: "do not change water for a year
and you will get a dirty tank like I have" - this is your method :-)

[...] but as for knowing coastal
reefs, well, I am far ahead of you on this matter unless you have
worked and dive in the Puerto Rican coasts under the supervision
of experienced professionals for 15 years.

What you see or want to emulate in your tank, I've seen it and studied it
in-situ. My work is well known around the island
and am bringing it to Florida.

Tell me please, what way diving is connected with keeping a reef tank ?

BTW - What regions in Puerto Rico have reef waters with level of nitrates
100mg/l
and phosphates 1mg/l ? Can you point me to the some references showing
water tests with such polution and thriving reefs in this poluted water ?

Last but not least, why answer to my posts using my name?
you are not anyone I know, leave that to people that know me.

You were posting here using your own name before, so I know you :-)
Don't you remember our conversations on this forum from the past ?
I remember...

If you think that by having a reef tank and observing what
happens makes you better prepared than a coastal marine
biologist, you are not telling the truth to yourself.

No, this it not what I think... Do not put words in my mouth.

I think that you do not own a reef tank, not even anything
resembling a reef tank... and no experience keeping one.
If you had, you would know what 100mg/l mean for a reef tank.

I also think that extremely high levels of nutrients/waste in
your tank show clearly that your "method" of keeping the water
clean (whatever you think the method is) is not working ...
That is what I know for sure.

Now, I think that you rely on aquarists handbooks and references,
not me. I rely on experience and real scientific work again,
IN THE ONLY TROPICAL COAST UNDER US JURISDICTION. There is also
the VI but they don't have a university program that attracts
students from all over the world.

Put aside your cookbooks for aquarists and go to any university
and read the real thing.

I do not know what are you reading in these university books, but maybe
you do not understand what you read ? Measurements
of waste compounds from your own tank tell me more truth about
your lack of knowledge and efficiency of methods to keep it
clean than your "humble" words about yourself...

Should we use Ocean Water in our Saltwater Aquarium?
 

Guayni; SAHS wrote:

Oh! but I will do water changes eventually, not yet!

Keep in mind that, if you wait until there are significant problems, you will
have to take really drastic action. With nitrates at 100mg/L, a 25% change will
only bring them down to 75mg/L. An additional 25% change will only get them to
56ml/L.

If your fish begin to show signs of distress due to nitrates, you will have to
rapidly reduce the level to below 40mg/L, which will be a *very* large water change.

George Patterson
Forgive your enemies. But always remember who they are.

Should we use Ocean Water in our Saltwater Aquarium?
 

My aquarium is an experimental system. I am sure there will be setbacks.
So far my fish is doing fine and the 100 reading in NO3 could be
questionable because I see no signs of stress or excessive algae growth.
I use Salifert NO3 kit and Hagen, although I trust Salifert more, the Hagen
is giving me 50.
See, the whole purpose of the system is to test a new filtering system that
reduces the need to change water considerably.
I'll keep this forum informed!

"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:zW4eh.3189$QD3.2713@trndny01...
Guayni; SAHS wrote:

Oh! but I will do water changes eventually, not yet!

Keep in mind that, if you wait until there are significant problems, you
will have to take really drastic action. With nitrates at 100mg/L, a 25%
change will only bring them down to 75mg/L. An additional 25% change will
only get them to 56ml/L.

If your fish begin to show signs of distress due to nitrates, you will
have to rapidly reduce the level to below 40mg/L, which will be a *very*
large water change.

George Patterson
Forgive your enemies. But always remember who they are.

Should we use Ocean Water in our Saltwater Aquarium?
 

"Guayni; SAHS" wrote in message ...
My aquarium is an experimental system. I am sure there will be setbacks.
So far my fish is doing fine and the 100 reading in NO3 could be
questionable because I see no signs of stress or excessive algae growth.
I use Salifert NO3 kit and Hagen, although I trust Salifert more,
the Hagen is giving me 50.

For algae growth you need to have strong lights...

See, the whole purpose of the system is to test a new filtering
system that reduces the need to change water considerably.
I'll keep this forum informed!

How long will you debate over this 100mg/l nitrates
to finally conclude your test failed spectacularly ?

Should we use Ocean Water in our Saltwater Aquarium?
 

"Pszemol" wrote in message
...
"Guayni; SAHS" wrote in message
...
Oh! but I will do water changes eventually, not yet!

You are probably wait for first sings of stress in fish, right ?

For a week you had me considering changing water. My NO3, PO4 and O2 levels
were off. Maybe you were right I thought.

Last week I did a complete maintenance on my system to see if I could lower
the numbers down some or else I was going to GRADUALLY start changing water.

Well, after changing two of the filtering media on my system and adding
another air pump to the system I am glad to share my new numbers on my
website.

After these changes the NO3 came down to 50 (looks between 50 and 75 but is
closer to 50) my NO2 is at 0.1 and my PO4 is lower than 1 (between 0.5 and
1.0 but closer to 1.0)

The point is that I am able to make adjustment to the system in seven
different ways and with my charts its easier to pinpoint what changes should
be made to achieve this.

Well, my fish is doing fine, no signs of stress, the inverts are thriving
and algae is blooming in my sump not in the tank.

I am sure the system works. Not only that, there is a huge accumulation of
Phosphates (PO4) and Nitrogen (NO3) rich debris under the minitank just
before the skimmer. If I am able to remove NO3 and PO4 before the water
goes back to the tank then there is no need to change water.

Thanks for the heads-up, I'll keep you informed!