Treating my betta's fin rot
 

Thanks for the perspective.

So far the remaining two rasboras are doing fine.
--
Mac Cool

Treating my betta's fin rot
 

Carlrs....
I know you disagree with many of regs both here and at the The
Freshwater Aquarium group, but I have noticed you recommend to folks a
little too quickly to medicate.
It seems like your first reply is to medicate when the poster hasn't
yet figured out what they're dealing with.
And when it comes to newbies, that's about the last thing you want to
suggest right off the bat.
Over the years I have learned that when many people say "my water tests
fine" they don't always know what that really means.
I have read on countless occasions (and not just here or at TFA) that
that could mean they tested their pH. I have truly read this countless
times.
I have on many occasion found the statement "my water tests fine" to
mean really nothing.
Now I'm not saying this poster is this way, not at all. I'm just trying
to point out that many people will simply say their water's fine when
in reality they have no clue.
You take that statement as fact or truth and start listing medications
to toss in.
Now I'm not saying you don't know what you're doing, not at all. I am
suggesting that you dig a little farther before dumping a list of meds
on the poster.
Medicating a tank *should be* the last resort. The first recommendation
should always be a water change no matter what the situation.
I can't even remember how many times a poster or emailer has said
help..my fish are dying..I reply...do a water change, and they say I
just did one the other day.
It doesn't matter. I would still say do another one, while asking many
quesitons. It amazes me how many times some sort of toxin got into the
tank either via the air or from somebody in the household.
People don't realize how toxic spraying something as simple as air
freshner in the same room as a tank can be, or an endless list of
pollutants.
Other things like hand lotion, or chemicals under the nails that
weren't washed properly. Sometimes it takes a little time and prodding
to get to the real culprit and medicating isn't always the first
answer. Please just do a little more digging before dishing out the
medication list. That's all I'm hoping for. = )

Treating my betta's fin rot
 

Tynk wrote:
Carlrs....
I know you disagree with many of regs both here and at the The
Freshwater Aquarium group, but I have noticed you recommend to folks a
little too quickly to medicate.
It seems like your first reply is to medicate when the poster hasn't
yet figured out what they're dealing with.
And when it comes to newbies, that's about the last thing you want to
suggest right off the bat.
Over the years I have learned that when many people say "my water tests
fine" they don't always know what that really means.
I have read on countless occasions (and not just here or at TFA) that
that could mean they tested their pH. I have truly read this countless
times.
I have on many occasion found the statement "my water tests fine" to
mean really nothing.
Now I'm not saying this poster is this way, not at all. I'm just trying
to point out that many people will simply say their water's fine when
in reality they have no clue.
You take that statement as fact or truth and start listing medications
to toss in.
Now I'm not saying you don't know what you're doing, not at all. I am
suggesting that you dig a little farther before dumping a list of meds
on the poster.
Medicating a tank *should be* the last resort. The first recommendation
should always be a water change no matter what the situation.
I can't even remember how many times a poster or emailer has said
help..my fish are dying..I reply...do a water change, and they say I
just did one the other day.
It doesn't matter. I would still say do another one, while asking many
quesitons. It amazes me how many times some sort of toxin got into the
tank either via the air or from somebody in the household.
People don't realize how toxic spraying something as simple as air
freshner in the same room as a tank can be, or an endless list of
pollutants.
Other things like hand lotion, or chemicals under the nails that
weren't washed properly. Sometimes it takes a little time and prodding
to get to the real culprit and medicating isn't always the first
answer. Please just do a little more digging before dishing out the
medication list. That's all I'm hoping for. = )

Actually if you read more of my posts especially in the other forums
(several I moderate) or if anyone bothered to read my many researched
articles, I ask just those questions. I am a big proponent of
prevention that is why I have published so much about kH (which I
believe is much more important than pH), Redox, UV Sterilization,
aquarium cleaning and much more.
Even in this post I was suggesting a bath, not a treatment and was
suggesting possible meds and more reading.
People need to read my articles and not flame me as on TFA.
I find it interesting that many will imply CO2 generators are a needed
for plant tanks and then out of hand dis UV sterilizers without doing
their home work.
Wonder Shells ARE NOT MEDS, yet other on the Usenet have gone Baptist
on me when this product has been used successfully as a tool (Not a
cure all or miracle product) for good aquatic husbandry.
I also find the way Dr. F & S (my feedback for this site was not good
from my previous service customers) is thrown around like the God of
internet stores reprehensible when I am again slammed for even
mentioning something I may sell (and like I am rich, yea cant even make
my house payment and pay all my medical bills).

I will admit that on this post I should have asked more questions, but
I was late answering, and I have found that often long answers do not
get read (especially in some forums where I post more)

All I ask is that you (or others such as denizen) read my articles and
what I say before you jump to these conclusions.
Also I did not build my business on word of mouth with clients that had
as many as 90 aquariums in one location before I had to move by giving
bad advice.
As for regs, what regs? Most well moderated forums, including the ones
I have been invited to moderate to not allow what goes on here.

Carl
http://www.americanaquariumproducts....formation.html

Treating my betta's fin rot
 

Tynk wrote:
Carlrs....
I know you disagree with many of regs both here and at the The
Freshwater Aquarium group, but I have noticed you recommend to folks a
little too quickly to medicate.
It seems like your first reply is to medicate when the poster hasn't
yet figured out what they're dealing with.
And when it comes to newbies, that's about the last thing you want to
suggest right off the bat.
Over the years I have learned that when many people say "my water tests
fine" they don't always know what that really means.
I have read on countless occasions (and not just here or at TFA) that
that could mean they tested their pH. I have truly read this countless
times.
I have on many occasion found the statement "my water tests fine" to
mean really nothing.
Now I'm not saying this poster is this way, not at all. I'm just trying
to point out that many people will simply say their water's fine when
in reality they have no clue.
You take that statement as fact or truth and start listing medications
to toss in.
Now I'm not saying you don't know what you're doing, not at all. I am
suggesting that you dig a little farther before dumping a list of meds
on the poster.
Medicating a tank *should be* the last resort. The first recommendation
should always be a water change no matter what the situation.
I can't even remember how many times a poster or emailer has said
help..my fish are dying..I reply...do a water change, and they say I
just did one the other day.
It doesn't matter. I would still say do another one, while asking many
quesitons. It amazes me how many times some sort of toxin got into the
tank either via the air or from somebody in the household.
People don't realize how toxic spraying something as simple as air
freshner in the same room as a tank can be, or an endless list of
pollutants.
Other things like hand lotion, or chemicals under the nails that
weren't washed properly. Sometimes it takes a little time and prodding
to get to the real culprit and medicating isn't always the first
answer. Please just do a little more digging before dishing out the
medication list. That's all I'm hoping for. = )

By the way, I am not saying that you are anyone else at TFA do not know
what they doing, in fact quite the opposite, that is why I still read
there and provide links from some of my blogs to NetMax's site such as
here http://aquarium-info.blogspot.com/
But knowledge can be a dangerous thing too, when some will not try and
consider others ideas. That is why I read there and other areas that I
do not post, as even if I do not agree, I will read references and try
and learn something, and sometimes it leads me to new research and
forces my opinion to change. In all honesty, I have to correct myself
often as I continue to learn and new research becomes available (such
as in calcium, Redox, UV sterilization). This also goes for businesses
too
I will admit to sometimes accepting ideas sometimes too fast before I
check the facts too as I did when my brother in law (who runs my old
maintenance business in LA) passed some math about a "new" way to
calculate fish per tank size, neither of us tested the math before I
ran with it until I was corrected by another who ran the figures. Heck
I am not perfect, but what I do disdain is someone challenging my
motives and integrity without checking the facts of my post or knowing
where I have been in life (and I would not even be here if I was only
thinking of myself, I would still be in So Cal).

Carl

Treating my betta's fin rot
 

carlrs wrote:
(Snipped)



All I ask is that you (or others such as denizen) read my articles and
what I say before you jump to these conclusions.
Also I did not build my business on word of mouth with clients that had
as many as 90 aquariums in one location before I had to move by giving
bad advice.
As for regs, what regs? Most well moderated forums, including the ones
I have been invited to moderate to not allow what goes on here.

Carl
http://www.americanaquariumproducts....formation.html

By "regs" I am referring to anyone who regularly posts here or at TFA.
That's all I meant by that.

Now, as for your other comments, I wasn't bashing you, jumping to
conclusions. giving you a hard time about your Wonder Shells, or
anything like that.
I was simply asking that before handing out advice on treatments for
diseases, you ask a few more questions. I remember asking this very
same thing of you quite a while ago. It was for the same reason. Before
any real info came in on the person's fish or tank situation,
medications or baths were recommended. I understand you are big on
prevention.
I am too, just in a quarantine way. I do not treat quarantined fish
just because, I do it if they show obvious signs of parasites or
infections.
I am a true believer in that medications are tossed around way too
often in this hobby.
Like I said before, I am not saying you are wrong, just asking that you
slow down and be more patient in getting a full picture of what's going
on before suggesting meds or baths.
If folks have bashed or flamed you for this, I am not. I am simply
asking you slow down and gather a little more info, that's all. I'm not
saying stop doing what you do, just slow it down.
If after the whole picture comes in, and it still seems like meds or a
bath are still the best approach, go for it. This is your area of
speciality.

Treating my betta's fin rot
 

Tynk wrote:
carlrs wrote:
(Snipped)



All I ask is that you (or others such as denizen) read my articles and
what I say before you jump to these conclusions.
Also I did not build my business on word of mouth with clients that had
as many as 90 aquariums in one location before I had to move by giving
bad advice.
As for regs, what regs? Most well moderated forums, including the ones
I have been invited to moderate to not allow what goes on here.

Carl
http://www.americanaquariumproducts....formation.html

By "regs" I am referring to anyone who regularly posts here or at TFA.
That's all I meant by that.

Now, as for your other comments, I wasn't bashing you, jumping to
conclusions. giving you a hard time about your Wonder Shells, or
anything like that.
I was simply asking that before handing out advice on treatments for
diseases, you ask a few more questions. I remember asking this very
same thing of you quite a while ago. It was for the same reason. Before
any real info came in on the person's fish or tank situation,
medications or baths were recommended. I understand you are big on
prevention.
I am too, just in a quarantine way. I do not treat quarantined fish
just because, I do it if they show obvious signs of parasites or
infections.
I am a true believer in that medications are tossed around way too
often in this hobby.
Like I said before, I am not saying you are wrong, just asking that you
slow down and be more patient in getting a full picture of what's going
on before suggesting meds or baths.
If folks have bashed or flamed you for this, I am not. I am simply
asking you slow down and gather a little more info, that's all. I'm not
saying stop doing what you do, just slow it down.
If after the whole picture comes in, and it still seems like meds or a
bath are still the best approach, go for it. This is your area of
speciality.

Not and try and get the last word, I just want to publicly post this.

If folks have bashed or flamed you for this, I am not. I am simply
asking you slow down and gather a little more info, that's all. I'm not


I did not mean to imply that you were, in fact I seem to recall you
backing up statements of mine when I was flamed many months back. But I
did have my character impugned and flamed on TFA.
Anyway my sincere apologies for implying anything about your statements
towards me.

I am too, just in a quarantine way. I do not treat quarantined fish
Just because, I do it if they show obvious signs of parasites or
Infections.
I am a true believer in that medications are tossed around way too
Often in this hobby.

I agree with over use, that is why I study many alternatives (such as
Usnea Lichen) as well as prevention.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree somewhat on quarantine
methods. When I quarantine fish coming in from the Far East or
elsewhere I place them in a dark aquarium with Methylene Blue. This
does not cause the problems that true antibiotics can as far as disease
resistance. Also, methylene blue acts as a hemoglobin transfer agent
and aids in the stress and damage often caused by excess ammonia during
the shipping process.
Both in marine and FW fish I have achieved healthier display tanks and
eventually client tanks this way (including feedback from my LFS
clients).

saying stop doing what you do, just slow it down.
If after the whole picture comes in, and it still seems like meds or a
Bath is still the best approach, go for it. This is your area of
Specialty

In this thread you are right. I made some assumptions about knowledge
that maybe I should not have. But in many of the forums I am in the
others are often experienced aquarists so some things go un asked or
assumed (this was not the case with customers in my previous LFS). I
would also note that the other side of the coin is arrogance (which I
have seen in many forums, and much more here on the Usenet) where
experienced aquarists are so condescending in their talking down to
newbies or even other experienced aquarists which tends to turn the
question asker off.

your Wonder Shells

These are not my product (yes I do make a medicated one, but the one I
recommend by far the most in my posts and articles is the regular one
for Calcium, electrolytes, and aid in kH control)

Carl

Treating my betta's fin rot
 

carlrs wrote:

By the way, I am not saying that you are anyone else at TFA do not know
what they doing, in fact quite the opposite, that is why I still read
there and provide links from some of my blogs to NetMax's site such as
here http://aquarium-info.blogspot.com/

Carl, you were flamed in one thread by one person for your suggestion
that a newbie who was asking about basic goldfish husbandry purchase an
expensive, high-tech UV sterilizer. The person who flamed you said in
a later post in the same thread that he respects your knowledge and
experience. I don't understand why you keep mentioning the incident on
Usenet. We ALL get flamed at some time or another - you can't take it
personally. You are always welcome to post in TFA.

--Altum

Treating my betta's fin rot
 

carlrs wrote:
I have been professionally involved in this business for 27 years (hard
to convince some at groups like Freshwater Aquarium
For most of us this is a hobby, but a serious one. A couple of
aquarists I know and highly respect, have completed advanced degrees in
the natural sciences and their advice is more useful than commercial
Internet blogs. Books are good, too.

For more Medication info (including Usnea):
All this talk of drugs reminds me of an old Steppenwolf song:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pusher

Flames, eh?
d.

Treating my betta's fin rot
 

Altum wrote:
carlrs wrote:


By the way, I am not saying that you are anyone else at TFA do not know
what they doing, in fact quite the opposite, that is why I still read
there and provide links from some of my blogs to NetMax's site such as
here http://aquarium-info.blogspot.com/


Carl, you were flamed in one thread by one person for your suggestion
that a newbie who was asking about basic goldfish husbandry purchase an
expensive, high-tech UV sterilizer. The person who flamed you said in
a later post in the same thread that he respects your knowledge and
experience. I don't understand why you keep mentioning the incident on
Usenet. We ALL get flamed at some time or another - you can't take it
personally. You are always welcome to post in TFA.

--Altum



I will second this...having missed the post in question on TFA I was
always a little confused as to your hurt.....or maybe I saw it as just
part of an educated debate (or fact of life) and skimmed over it (even
as a moderator)......I don't believe that anyone made you less than very
welcome on TFA and some of us have actually missed you....flame wars
happen on Usenet and on a lot of other forums not just TFA....just a
fact of life and one that we all learn to deal with....and I would hope
that it is a question that TFA deals with with a little more maturity
than some groups.....none of us have ever said that you are not
welcome....in fact the opposite is the case....anyone with your
experience is always welcome....now if you get a little bit too
commercial for the tastes of some of our posters then they can take you
to task if they wish and you can defend yourself.....none of this
acutally goes against the moderation policy of the group and if any
flaming gets a little too hot it should go to personal email ....but
this is not censorship - just a suggestion....

I understand that you may well have been hurt by someone taking you to
task.....but a little bit of a thicker skin and appreciation that your
knowledge and experience is valued might be a better way to
go....additionally if you felt hurt by a post a quick email to the
owners/moderators of the group might have been a good way to address the
hurt......anyway, if you want to come back to TFA we will welcome you.....

Gill

Treating my betta's fin rot
 

Gill Passman wrote:
Altum wrote:
You are always welcome to post in TFA.

I will second this

Carl, I'd also welcome your posts on TFA and I'm not even a group
manager, just a budding arsonist ;o) .
d.