OT - Microsoft is NOT the problem. The problem is people who open attachments and who don't upgrade
 

I started out on Unix (worked at Bell Labs in the late 70's - early 80's)
and I to this day think it was/is the most elegant system out there. I can
do file processing things with ease on Unix (Linux terminal) that are
burdensome on any other system. When I first came to SUNY I had a NeXT
machine - it was at least a decade ahead of windows at the time and had
things that even today are lacking in Windows. The problem is that
currently Linux while much nicer than it was just a couple of years ago, is
not really a "KMart" product that any user can open up and use. As I said
I'm experienced with Unix, I am the system administrator in our lab and I
beat my head against the wall with Linux. Plus the open software that made
Unix so wonderful has turned Linux into a nightmare. There is so much crap
on it that it just overwhelms.

The reason I defend Windows is that it made computers something everyone and
anyone could use. The MAC was really nice but few people could afford them.
Windows certainly has many flaws but it survives and flourishes in the
business because of what I consider flaws (taking other's developed ideas
and incorporating them as their own, ME, all the ones you mentioned, etc.)
.... NeXT no longer exists.

Most software used to come out as beta versions that would get tested and
then marketed. My guess is that the profit margin is just too small to
afford that anymore.

D Kat


"Critical Popperian" wrote in message
om...
Microsoft is not the problem. MS is being attacked because it is the
biggest boy on the block.

I don't know that I really agree with that.

MSFT's technology really is insecure, from the ground up. They have
inherent base flaws in their design that there are no easy fixes.
They also really rush new code out and force feed it to customers
regardless of quality so as to kill off competing high-tech start-ups
and that's a big part of the issue as well.

Linux is the future, it will take many years but gains market share
every year. It has highest market share growth of anything
competitive, and best of all, it's free!

I used to be an all-microsoft guy all-the-time, but now I use MSFT 50%
and Linux 50% daily. My trend is reduction of use of Microsoft. They
have some things that are better than Linux, but decreasingly so and
when compared to cost and security it's an easier choice.

Linux's (UNIX) security model does vastly exceeds Microsoft's. While
there are still issues as you point out, it is not so much cut and
dry. The Linux model really is better. Microsoft built Windows and
added security to it after, Linux worked in reverse, it started with
strong / government class security and built everything on top of
that.

For instance, as a core requirement in the Linux kernel users can't
really do anything to the system. They can't delete configuration
files, they are pretty much absolutely locked into their own little
world... at the kernel level.

SO when open a virus on a Linux box that is bad, it bounces around and
can't get out of the user's "box" to hurt the system.

On Windows that's not true.

Even with low-level access on a Windows box you can cheat and do lots
and lots of bad things. :)

OT - Microsoft is NOT the problem. The problem is people whoopen attachments and who don't upgrade
 

D Kat wrote:

The reason I defend Windows is that it made computers something everyone and
anyone could use.

Well, almost everyone and anyone. What they really did was make computers
cheap. I have always held the belief that a computer should be simple and
intuitive. Windows is neither. Watch a non-serious computer user try to set
up a windows network sometime. Or someone who just wants to write a letter
with Microsoft Word.

The MAC was really nice but few people could afford them.
Yes. They were more money, but the level of elegance and usability was way
higher. When windows first came out I was writing software for both
Macintosh and DOS platforms. We nearly killed ourselves laughing over the
"new" windows system. To this day I can put a floppy disk in a wintel box
and the computer is still unaware it was loaded; I can get a directory of
it, eject it, put in a different floppy and the computer has no idea.

Windows certainly has many flaws but it survives and flourishes in the
business because of what I consider flaws (taking other's developed ideas
and incorporating them as their own, ME, all the ones you mentioned, etc.)

I think it flourishes because it has momentum. Microsoft essentially got
lucky when IBM said, "hey, we'll use this little DOS thingy you guys wrote
to be the operating system for these computers that we wish would just go
away." I don't think MS has had a truly innovative day in their history, as
you say they pretty much steal or buy what other people develop.

Oh well.

Joe



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OT - Microsoft is NOT the problem. The problem is people whoopen attachments and who don't upgrade
 

Joe, This is on the topic of Viruses. How can I stop the infernal
emails from coming in? Has been going on for four days.
I really need some help with this. Running Norton SystemWorks.

Thanks!

Nedra

"joe" wrote in message
...
D Kat wrote:

The reason I defend Windows is that it made computers something everyone
and
anyone could use.

Well, almost everyone and anyone. What they really did was make computers
cheap. I have always held the belief that a computer should be simple and
intuitive. Windows is neither. Watch a non-serious computer user try to
set
up a windows network sometime. Or someone who just wants to write a letter
with Microsoft Word.

The MAC was really nice but few people could afford them.
Yes. They were more money, but the level of elegance and usability was way
higher. When windows first came out I was writing software for both
Macintosh and DOS platforms. We nearly killed ourselves laughing over the
"new" windows system. To this day I can put a floppy disk in a wintel box
and the computer is still unaware it was loaded; I can get a directory of
it, eject it, put in a different floppy and the computer has no idea.

Windows certainly has many flaws but it survives and flourishes in the
business because of what I consider flaws (taking other's developed
ideas
and incorporating them as their own, ME, all the ones you mentioned,
etc.)

I think it flourishes because it has momentum. Microsoft essentially got
lucky when IBM said, "hey, we'll use this little DOS thingy you guys wrote
to be the operating system for these computers that we wish would just go
away." I don't think MS has had a truly innovative day in their history,
as
you say they pretty much steal or buy what other people develop.

Oh well.

Joe



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OT - Microsoft is NOT the problem. The problem is people whoopenattachments and who don't upgrade
 

Nedra wrote:

Joe, This is on the topic of Viruses. How can I stop the infernal
emails from coming in? Has been going on for four days.
I really need some help with this. Running Norton SystemWorks.

Thanks!

Nedra



use "mailwasher" http://www.mailwasher.net
after you install it, when you have mail
use the prog. and it will only get the msg
headers and allow you to delete the bad ones
w/o waiting for them to download.


I let it grab msgs, sort by size then use
"mail" at top bar, "delete all" then uncheck
the good ones. the viruses are 135-165 kb
in size so its easy to see them. then hit
"process mail" button and there GONE!, now
you can get your normal msgs.






--
http://www.kencofish.com Ken Arnold,
401-781-9642 cell 401-225-0556
Importer/Exporter of Goldfish,Koi,rare Predators
Shipping to legal states/countries only!
Permalon liners, Oase & Supreme Pondmaster pumps


Please Note: No trees or animals were harmed in the
sending of this contaminant free message We do concede
that a signicant number of electrons may have been
inconvenienced ;)

OT - Microsoft is NOT the problem. The problem is people whoopen attachments and who don't upgrade
 

and i find linux to be so much simpler to use than windowz oh well
to each --- own
john rutz
joe wrote:
D Kat wrote:


The reason I defend Windows is that it made computers something everyone and
anyone could use.


Well, almost everyone and anyone. What they really did was make computers
cheap. I have always held the belief that a computer should be simple and
intuitive. Windows is neither. Watch a non-serious computer user try to set
up a windows network sometime. Or someone who just wants to write a letter
with Microsoft Word.


The MAC was really nice but few people could afford them.

Yes. They were more money, but the level of elegance and usability was way
higher. When windows first came out I was writing software for both
Macintosh and DOS platforms. We nearly killed ourselves laughing over the
"new" windows system. To this day I can put a floppy disk in a wintel box
and the computer is still unaware it was loaded; I can get a directory of
it, eject it, put in a different floppy and the computer has no idea.


Windows certainly has many flaws but it survives and flourishes in the
business because of what I consider flaws (taking other's developed ideas
and incorporating them as their own, ME, all the ones you mentioned, etc.)


I think it flourishes because it has momentum. Microsoft essentially got
lucky when IBM said, "hey, we'll use this little DOS thingy you guys wrote
to be the operating system for these computers that we wish would just go
away." I don't think MS has had a truly innovative day in their history, as
you say they pretty much steal or buy what other people develop.

Oh well.

Joe



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http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

OT - Microsoft is NOT the problem. The problem is peoplewhoopen attachments and who don't upgrade
 

Nedra,

The short answer is you can't keep them from coming in. What I did for my SO
was just set Norton antivirus to throw away the infected attachments, rather
than quarantine them (I never could understand the quarantine idea, it's a
virus - toss it, don't even ask me) You still get the email though. A second
option (that I use on my Mac) is to set up a mail rule that if the
attachment contains the word .exe, .com or .bat to throw it away. That way I
don't see even the email. The only problem is that you may receive an email
with such an attachment that you would have liked to receive.

Joe


Nedra wrote:

Joe, This is on the topic of Viruses. How can I stop the infernal
emails from coming in? Has been going on for four days.
I really need some help with this. Running Norton SystemWorks.



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OT - Microsoft is NOT the problem. The problem is people who open attachments and who don't upgrade
 

In , on 09/24/03
at 01:16 PM, joe said:

lucky when IBM said, "hey, we'll use this little DOS thingy you guys
wrote to be the operating system for these computers that we wish would
just go away." I don't think MS has had a truly innovative day in their
history, as you say they pretty much steal or buy what other people
develop.

IBM totally screwed up when they essentially gave up on OS/2. It's still
more secure than Windows. Win virii can't bother my system.



Alan

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OT - Microsoft is NOT the problem. The problem is people whoopen attachments and who don't upgrade
 

"joe" wrote in message
...

[snipped]

I have always held the belief that a computer should be simple and
intuitive. Windows is neither.

I gave up on the concept that computers should be simple, so I settled for
letting Windows' letting me actually see what I was trying to do!
(Actually, I've heard rumors that's the basis for the name in the first
place.)

Watch a non-serious computer user try to set
up a windows network sometime.

No, thanks, I'm hoping to eat dinner again someday. OTOH, we tried to
network 2 home computers; it didn't work so well, so we gave up -- now we
just send files back & forth over the Internet! Just kidding.

Or someone who just wants to write a letter
with Microsoft Word.

I can't equate all of Windows' idiosyncrasies with MS Word -- all I know
is that I had no trouble using WordPerfect on a Windows computer. WP didn't
care how -- or IF -- I formatted my documents (and I even used it for
typing complex equations), but Word won't even let me do a shopping list
without insisting that I format it! Heaven help me if I want 2 of something
before I want 1 of something else!

Anne Lurie
Raleigh, NC

OT - MS Word v. WordPerfect [was Microsoft is NOT the problem...]
 

Anne Lurie wrote:
"joe" wrote in message
...

Or someone who just wants to write a letter
with Microsoft Word.

I can't equate all of Windows' idiosyncrasies with MS Word -- all I
knowis that I had no trouble using WordPerfect on a Windows computer.
WP didn'tcare how -- or IF -- I formatted my documents (and I even
used it fortyping complex equations), but Word won't even let me do a
shopping listwithout insisting that I format it! Heaven help me if I
want 2 of something before I want 1 of something else!

I very strongly agree with you!! Having gone from non-correcting
electric typewriters to keypunch data entry to magnetic card or wheel
systems, learning to use and using WordPerfect from its first commercial
version on made my life as a secretary much easier that Word ever could.
The only time I bothered using Word was after it started to "show codes"
ala WordPerfect just a few years ago. Before that I was always ending up
with tons of formatting changes / glitches that I could neither delete
or reset to the way I wanted it. And I only used Word if that was the
only thing available in the office. I'd much rather use Notepad without
fancy formatting than use Word.
--
Zk

Really, really O/T - you're back
 

John!!!

I'd been wondering 'cause I had not seen posts from you recently, and I was
about to "ping" you..... except that it seemed so presumptuous.

Thank goodness, now I won't have to be the lone voice in the Peanut Gallery
any more :)

Anne Lurie
Raleigh, NC


"johnrutz" wrote in message
...
and i find linux to be so much simpler to use than windowz oh well
to each --- own
john rutz