Sick koi and need advice (with pics)
 

"Gill Passman" wrote in message
...
Zëbulon wrote:

"scs0" wrote in message
ups.com...


Any ideas on what's going on? If so, what do I do about it?

===================================
Check this site:

http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/...phocystis.html

I had a beautiful deep yellow female diamond-scale butterfly koi with
this disease. It looked exactly like what your fish has. She would appear
cured at times but it always came back. She went to a farm stock pond
rather than keep her with the other fish and possibly infect them.
==================
This is what you said....this is suggesting someone go dump a fish
somewhere else..

No, the "suggestion" is all in your mind. I "suggested" no such thing. I
said what I did with my fish.

...by disagreeing with this I am not trolling you or
carrying out anything you have going on in your head...

The stop claiming I'm "suggesting" anything. I said what I did with my fish.
OMG... what would you have done had he had a heron problem and I told him to
shoot and kill it!!!!! :-O

..I am saying that
this is irresponsible and bad advice....

There is NO ADVICE. I said what I did with my fish.

You sent her to a pond where she
would/could infect other fish....but not yours.....

What other fish? What other fish did you see in that small stock pond when
you came her to check it?

..you should have
taken the responsible action of euthanising this fish not releasing it
elsewhere to infect others.....

Other what? What other fish did you see in that small stock pond when you
came here to TN (USA) to check it? Are you going to claim you came all the
way from the UK and SAW other fish in the small stock pond? What's the
difference except for filtration between the stock pond and my pond? I
notice not one of you will answer that. You will keep beating the same old
drum. Now for the record Gill. I've mentioned many times on this group
that I've put fish in a stock pond and not one person slashed at my throat
over it until your friend Roy Hauer did - then boy oh boy, you jumped right
in, not even knowing a damn thing about the pond where that fish went. Where
were you and your good buddy (now that you realize it wouldn't work with me)
all those past years Gill?

You just don't get it do you....

Gill,... you are so full of it! This BS started with you when I refused to
go away and sneak back with a new persona so Roy Tristan Hauer and Antonio L
Santana, two obsessed trolls, would stop disrupting these NGs. Until then
you didn't twist everything I said. Now you've gone so far as to claim
there were other fish in a pond thousands of miles from where you live and
could not possibly have examined for other fish. I know your motive Gill, I
just want others to know what it is as well. You will do anything to get
Roy to shut up and stop trolling here and for Jabbers to leave. If that
means you have to stoop to bearing my throat for the kill you are willing to
do it. If that means harassing me off the group you're willing to do that
as well. You have no integrity and little honesty and I hope you decide not
to be a moderator. You're carrying too much baggage with you......... SHAME
ON YOU!
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

Sick koi and need advice (with pics)
 

"Tristan" wrote in message
...


Its already been done along with her name, addrress and phone
number.......


mmmmmmmmm......if they (Fish and Wildlife) do respond will they also be
accused of trolling and jumping on the bandwagon?

Sick koi and need advice (with pics)
 

"Killjoy" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Zëbulon" wrote in message
===========================
You still haven't answered the question as to why it's so dangerous for a
koi with pox to be in a man made stock
pond but it's not dangerous for it to be a man made ornamental pond. Why
don't you answer the question? What is the difference between the two
ponds
except my ponds are filtered and the stock pond isn't.


Perhaps someone could forward your post about dumping a diseased
non-native fish in a farm pond to the Tennessee fish and wildlife office
and let them explain it to you.
=====================
Why don't YOU explain it to me? Why are you avoiding the question and
beating around the bush? That should be easy for you - no? What's the
difference except my ponds are filtered?
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

Sick koi and need advice (with pics)
 

"Zëbulon" wrote

Why don't YOU explain it to me?

Because it has become quite evident that you will not accept an explanation
from me or anyone else on this NG. Hopefully Tenn. Fish and Wildlife and
maybe even the EPA will have satisfactory explanations. Environmental
agencies frown upon dumping diseased non-native fish, especially so close to
a lake.

Sick koi and need advice (with pics)
 

On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 19:36:41 -0600, Zëbulon wrote:

That was one fish. You still haven't
replied why it's so dangerous for a koi with pox to be in a man made stock
pond but it's not dangerous for it to be a man made ornamental pond.

I raise my hand, even though you won't answer my questions straight up.

You keep your ponds netted so herons can't fly off with your fish, and than
accidentally drop them in a natural waterway. I assume the stock pond is
not netted, this is usually the case since it would be detrimental to the
stock to drink from it, and get caught in netting? Thus a heron could catch
and release right into a natural waterway. Not only has this happened,
we've had ponders locally come home to a strange, but dead fish in their
pond. Now if that isn't scary, I don't know what is.

Even if your koi, for a fact, proven with a culture only had carp pox, that
in and of itself IS contagious, low contagion, but still contagious.

You just jumped right on the bandwagon. ;-)

Guess I'm guilty of that also, check please, I ready to disembark. ~ jan

Sick koi and need advice (with pics)
 

"Killjoy" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Zëbulon" wrote

Why don't YOU explain it to me?

Because it has become quite evident that you will not accept an
explanation from me or anyone else on this NG.

Try me instead of sidestepping the question. What's the difference in a
stock pond and an ornamental pond?

Hopefully Tenn. Fish and Wildlife and
maybe even the EPA will have satisfactory explanations. Environmental
agencies frown upon dumping diseased non-native fish, especially so close
to a lake.

And you know where this small stock pond is located? How close to the lake
is it and why is it more dangerous then keeping the koi in my own pond when
the only difference is my ponds are filtered?
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

Sick koi and need advice (with pics)
 

"~ jan" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 19:36:41 -0600, Zëbulon
wrote:

That was one fish. You still haven't
replied why it's so dangerous for a koi with pox to be in a man made stock
pond but it's not dangerous for it to be a man made ornamental pond.

I raise my hand, even though you won't answer my questions straight up.

You keep your ponds netted so herons can't fly off with your fish, and
than
accidentally drop them in a natural waterway.

No Heron is going to carry an adult koi several miles and drop in anywhere.
Also Jan, the tub that fish was in was not netted because she was too large
for a heron or kingfisher. Are you saying that anyone who has a fish with
pox must net their pond or holding tanks? The only things netted around
here are holding fish small enough for the large bullfrogs, turtles or
herons to take.

I assume the stock pond is
not netted, this is usually the case since it would be detrimental to the
stock to drink from it, and get caught in netting?

I also assume most ponds are not netted, and pox, not being fatal, is not an
uncommon infection. I have seen it on local pond tours and few of those
ponds were netted.

Thus a heron could catch
and release right into a natural waterway. Not only has this happened,
we've had ponders locally come home to a strange, but dead fish in their
pond. Now if that isn't scary, I don't know what is.

Of course it is. But I can't stop a snake or snapper from getting through a
net and carrying off a fish and dropping it somewhere either. No one can
guarantee that unless their pond is indoors. What do we do Jan... get rid of
all our fish? This was a huge adult female no heron could lift no less
carry several miles. I'm not far from a lake and there has never been a
report of anyone catching goldfish, koi or any other exotic introduced
species there in all the years I've lived here. No wait... one summer
someone hooked a pacu and thought it was a piranha.

Even if your koi, for a fact, proven with a culture only had carp pox,
that
in and of itself IS contagious, low contagion, but still contagious.

So? See above. Any heron that can carry off a koi as large as she was
would have to be twice the size of an eagle. There are no birds here that
large. There is no way anyone can guarantee any fish kept outside will not
be hauled off by some predator.

You just jumped right on the bandwagon. ;-)

Guess I'm guilty of that also, check please, I ready to disembark. ~ jan

Before jumping on the bandwagon perhaps a few questions asked would be
helpful instead of immediately going for the throat... something that never
happened on this group before.
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Troll free pond and fish Forum:
http://www.karlsforums.com/forums/fo...ay.php?fid=104
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

Sick koi and need advice (with pics)
 

On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 23:08:15 -0600, Zëbulon wrote:

No Heron is going to carry an adult koi several miles and drop in anywhere.

Happened here. Got members of the club to prove it. Fish wasn't theirs,
that was dropped in their pond, 12-18" of dead koi.

Also Jan, the tub that fish was in was not netted because she was too large
for a heron or kingfisher.

Well just how large was she?

I also assume most ponds are not netted, and pox, not being fatal, is not an
uncommon infection. I have seen it on local pond tours and few of those
ponds were netted.

Right, but ornamental ponds are a tad less accessible then stock ponds in
the middle of fields.

Of course it is. But I can't stop a snake or snapper from getting through a
net and carrying off a fish and dropping it somewhere either.

Snakes & snappers don't do this, the eat on the spot.

There is no way anyone can guarantee any fish kept outside will not
be hauled off by some predator.

Stating obvious.... You never mentioned the size of the fish.

Before jumping on the bandwagon perhaps a few questions asked would be
helpful instead of immediately going for the throat... something that never
happened on this group before.

Now you're lashing out. I in no way went for your throat, if I did you
would be choking, heck I didn't even come close to any of your body parts.
My reply was civil, on topic and part of the discussion. It contained no
personal attack. Your combativeness just floors me. Proving once again
that one can't have a discussional disagreement with you without you seeing
it as a personal attack. s ~ jan

Sick koi and need advice (with pics)
 

Zëbulon wrote:



Gill,... you are so full of it! This BS started with you when I refused
to go away and sneak back with a new persona so Roy Tristan Hauer and
Antonio L Santana, two obsessed trolls, would stop disrupting these
NGs.

The suggestion, which was not mine alone, was that you came back with a
less easily identified nym so that you would not be trolled the minute
that you posted......noone ever suggested a personality
transplant.....that would be ridiculous - the only suggestion was that
you changed nym and signature so that you would not be jumped on the
minute that you made a post.....


Until then you didn't twist everything I said. Now you've gone so
far as to claim there were other fish in a pond thousands of miles from
where you live and could not possibly have examined for other fish.

I haven't suggested this at all. However, a farm stock pond would
suggest to me that it is stocked with fish....and these creatures could
possibly be infected by the placing of a sick fish in with them....but
it is obvious that the pros and cons of dealing with an incurable fish
cannot be discussed here....so I'm not going to bother anymore.....For
the record it would not matter who posted that they had placed a sick
fish in a stock pond - my feelings would be the same.....


I
know your motive Gill, I just want others to know what it is as well.
You will do anything to get Roy to shut up and stop trolling here and
for Jabbers to leave.

My motive is to be able to post in peace on troll free groups - I would
hope that it is one that is shared by all other than those wishing to
troll the groups (and I would hope that these people in question also
would want this as well - but I can only dream....)

If that means you have to stoop to bearing my
throat for the kill you are willing to do it. If that means harassing
me off the group you're willing to do that as well.

You have just as much right to post on Usenet as anyone else.....if you
mean that by disagreeing with you from time to time I am harassing
you....then any debate with you is impossible without these accusations
being made from you (but then I've never known you do anything other
than accuse those with opposing views of being trolls or out to get you
- so I doubt that you will change now).....I have no desire to see you
leave the group - my only desire is and has always been to be able to
post and read the newsgroups in peace without having to read someone's
dirty laundry at the same time.....to be able to open up a newsgroup and
not have to filter through 10s of off-topic messages to read stuff of
interest (as I had to do on rec.aquaria.marine.reefs this morning)....

I repeat, I am not harassing you....but may disagree with you and
respond.....this is called discussion and debate.....


You have no
integrity and little honesty and I hope you decide not to be a
moderator. You're carrying too much baggage with you......... SHAME ON
YOU!

Insults......all because I take an opposing view to you on the morality
of dumping a sick and possible contagious fish in another pond - well if
my integrity dictates that this should not be done then I am happy that
my inegrity is not compromised.....

So for the record:-

1. If I disagree or feel that something needs further discussion I will
do so WHOEVER the poster is......I will not make an exception because
someone will accuse me of harassing them.....nor will I be intimidated
by anyone into not giving my point of view

2. I have no desire to see anyone stop post on these groups.....my only
desire is that this is done without trolling and insults....and that
posts are on-topic

3. When it comes to a moderated rec.ponds any moderation should be done
on content alone and not on the poster's identity - this leaves all of
you free to post there providing you follow the moderation policy

4. I think that the dragging of other unconnected groups into whatever
troll games are going on here is reprehensible WHOEVER does it.....

Now if anyone has a problem with the above....then let me know

Gill

Sick koi and need advice (with pics)
 

"~ jan" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 23:08:15 -0600, Zëbulon
wrote:

No Heron is going to carry an adult koi several miles and drop in
anywhere.

Happened here. Got members of the club to prove it. Fish wasn't theirs,
that was dropped in their pond, 12-18" of dead koi.

Well it looks like we'll all have to net our ponds. BTW the herons here are
the small ones about the size of a banty rooster.

Also Jan, the tub that fish was in was not netted because she was too
large
for a heron or kingfisher.

Well just how large was she?

Her body was excluding the tail was 18" or more. She outweighed the little
green Herons by several pounds.

I also assume most ponds are not netted, and pox, not being fatal, is not
an
uncommon infection. I have seen it on local pond tours and few of those
ponds were netted.

Right, but ornamental ponds are a tad less accessible then stock ponds in
the middle of fields.

That don't apply here since herons will sit right on your roof or garage
until you go in - then they're right on your pond rim fishing. They take
fish from ponds in towns. You may be talking about a different heron.

Of course it is. But I can't stop a snake or snapper from getting through
a
net and carrying off a fish and dropping it somewhere either.

Snakes & snappers don't do this, the eat on the spot.

So do the herons we have here. A few gulps and the fish is gone. In ever saw
one pick up a fish larger then itself and carry it off.

There is no way anyone can guarantee any fish kept outside will not
be hauled off by some predator.

Stating obvious.... You never mentioned the size of the fish.

And *no one bothered to ask* before going for my throat. So let me repeat
this for posterity. Before this koi was turned out in the farm pond the
whole top of her dorsal fin was amputated to remove the waxy growth
beforehand. I had permission to put fish in this pond from the landowner who
liked the idea (misquito control). I knew he couldn't keep fish in this
pond due to predators and this pond is right near a dwelling. I knew this
fish stood no chance but allowed nature to take it course. When I went back
with some goldfish culls I didn't see her so can only assume some raccoon
had a good dinner.

Before jumping on the bandwagon perhaps a few questions asked would be
helpful instead of immediately going for the throat... something that
never
happened on this group before.

Now you're lashing out.

Why not jan? Everyone else seems to feel they can lash out at me and say
anything they want. They lash out and jump on everything I say. Everything
has to be explained down to the last minute detail. Why and *I* held to a
different standard? Why didn't you do this to the other poster to
recommended shooting and killing a protected bird, never mentioning it was
both illegal and immoral here in the USA? Why are there different standards
for different posters here?

I in no way went for your throat, if I did you
would be choking, heck I didn't even come close to any of your body parts.
My reply was civil, on topic and part of the discussion. It contained no
personal attack.

Then please ask for details before lecturing me on illegally "dumping
diseased" fish in waterways.

Your combativeness just floors me. Proving once again
that one can't have a discussional disagreement with you without you
seeing
it as a personal attack. s ~ jan

You're lecturing me on wildlife laws I'm well aware of without asking me for
more information *FLOORS* me - since you never did this to anyone else. Why
do it to me? This proves once again you hold me to a different standard
than you hold the other posters here - even when they recommend the illegal
killing of a protected species.

I don't want to hear it's legal to kill Herons in the UK because he didn't
tell the poster that - and YOU never said a word!!!! God help me if I
posted something like that.
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*