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Richard Sexton wrote:
If the fish is happy at 70 it's hard to argue with that. Bettas are all individuals rememebr? You missed the obvious. The fish isn't "happy" at 70*f. It's about 10 degrees too COLD! "Hard to argue that"? Too hard NOT too. |
IDzine01 Mar 16, 11:29 am show options
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc From: "IDzine01" - Find messages by this author Date: 16 Mar 2005 11:29:59 -0800 Local: Wed, Mar 16 2005 11:29 am Subject: Male Bettas Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse I know of bettas living over 5 years. I had a female that must have been over 6 yrs old. She was the longest lived Betta I've had in close to 30 years of keeping them. She was found in a local shop, already fully grown in body size. A lovely white with red Butterfly pattern-Cambodian-Double tail. I had her with me for about 5 and half years, so being fully grown already....that would make her in the 6 or possibly even more range. She was the coolest female I ever had. She was Alpha in the hierarchy, and kept that status well into her *very* old age, and till she died. Towards the end of her days, the second in hierarchy would help her defend her spot. It was quite interesting to watch happen, and I love telling the story of it. Not many people see this side of Bettas, and some never bother looking. = / I've been studying animal behavior (no matter the species) since I was a very small child, and I'm addicted to it, lol. When it comes to fish, some types do a lot of communicating through body language and it's so intersting to learn. Some types make societies, have friends, enemies, loves, and in my case when I'm breeding...I'll have entire familes to watch. Over the years Bettas have become quite the popular little fish. However, too much misinformation was spread and it happened as quickly as their popularity did. Things like: They like cold-room temp water They like tiny bowls better than a spacious tank They do not need to be fed because they eat algae off plant roots They'll die if you put them in a heated tank. They'll die if you put them in a filtered tank You cannot house them with any fish They'll kill anything that is put in with them They live in tiny mud puddles in the wild They don't like clean water, they prefer a dirty bowl They fight to the death And on and on and on............................ My all time favorite beats even the "they eat algae" (duh..carnivores!), and even the "they'll die if you put them in a heated or filtered tank".....drum roll please,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,, "You cannot house male Fancy Guppies in with female Bettas because the female Bettas will eat their eyeballs." I mean, the person who said this was totally serious. = O So, with all the misinformation floating around, it's no wonder so many people hear or are told the wrong things. In my own personal opinion, I believe Bettas to have a general life span of 2-4 yrs. It's just as common for one to live 3 yrs....than it is for one to live 4 yrs, as it is for another to live 2 yrs. Many different factors come into play with a fish's life span too. This all needs to be taken into consideration as well. Everything from it's breeding stock, it's growing conditions, it's food intake, it's water conditions, it's tank conditions, etc. Some things can shorten a fish's life, and others can prolong it. Some people out there kept male Bettas in a vase with a Lily plant in it. They didn't even feed the poor fish or change the water. The fish would live like that for months sometimes. What was really happening is that these Bettas were slowly starving to death. A healthy Betta can live an amazingly long time without food. Many will last for months, slowly shrinking away until dead. They could be seen pecking at algae, yes. However, they are strictly carnivorous and it was done out of pure starvation. Also, they could survive the filthy water conditions and O2 depleted water because of their Labyrinth organ. It allows them to breath surface air, in conjuction with using their gills to get O2 from the water. So, because of this, they would suffer for months. Luckily word spread, all though it was a bit slow to me, that these fish really do need to be fed and taken care of properly, etc. Currently, the battle is over proper water/tank conditions for Bettas. This too is going slow. The slowest battle, it would seem, is the pronunciation of the Siamese Fighting Fish's common name, Betta. For years now the mispronunciation has spread like wildfire. People / shops are even going as far as to change the spelling of Betta to "Beta" to match the mispronunciation. I have worked just as hard over the years to correct this common mistake too. = ) Folks...it's pronounced "Bet-uh". |
In article .com,
Tynk wrote: Richard Sexton wrote: If the fish is happy at 70 it's hard to argue with that. Bettas are all individuals rememebr? You missed the obvious. The fish isn't "happy" at 70*f. It's about 10 degrees too COLD! "Hard to argue that"? Too hard NOT too. So if they flare all the time and make bubble nests constantly at 70 that bad becasue you think so? -- Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org http://www.mbz.org | Mercedes Mailing lists: http://lists.mbz.org 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Killies, killi.net, Crypts, aquaria.net 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Old wris****ches http://watches.list.mbz.org |
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lgb
think every one of the $#%@! things is an individual species :-). LOL.....I think they are. = )~ The male Crowntail that I have Molly fry in with him..... He eats the algae wafer I drop in for the Mollies. Just like your little dude, mine does it after he eats his normal food. The algae wafer is tossed in for the Molly fry to snack on throughout the day. However, one of the most common problems with Bettas is that they're PIGS! Some will eat just about anything in front of them. Others are so finicky that they'll only eat special foods. You can't really say these fish get boring. They keep us guessing. = )~ |
Tynk wrote:
Richard Sexton wrote: If the fish is happy at 70 it's hard to argue with that. Bettas are all individuals rememebr? You missed the obvious. The fish isn't "happy" at 70*f. It's about 10 degrees too COLD! "Hard to argue that"? Too hard NOT too. Has it ever occurred to you that some breeders might be breeding and keeping bettas at lower temperatures and thus creating lines of bettas that don't need 78 degrees to live comfortably? Or that a betta raised at lower temperatures as a young fish might adapt to them? A betta kept too cold has a very clear set of behaviors. It sits in a pile of limp fins at the bottom of the tank, only moving to breathe from the surface and eat. A slightly warmer betta may swim around a bit, in case there's food or another male somewhere. A betta at adequate temperatures prowls the bowl, flares at things, responds to his keeper, begs for food, and blows bubblenests just in case a female happens by. The behavioral difference between a too-cold and a comfortable betta is unmistakable. "Happy" is merely an anthropomorphism. -- __ Elaine T __ __' http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__ |
Elaine T wrote: Tynk wrote: Richard Sexton wrote: If the fish is happy at 70 it's hard to argue with that. Bettas are all individuals rememebr? You missed the obvious. The fish isn't "happy" at 70*f. It's about 10 degrees too COLD! "Hard to argue that"? Too hard NOT too. Has it ever occurred to you that some breeders might be breeding and keeping bettas at lower temperatures and thus creating lines of bettas that don't need 78 degrees to live comfortably? Or that a betta raised at lower temperatures as a young fish might adapt to them? A betta kept too cold has a very clear set of behaviors. It sits in a pile of limp fins at the bottom of the tank, only moving to breathe from the surface and eat. A slightly warmer betta may swim around a bit, in case there's food or another male somewhere. A betta at adequate temperatures prowls the bowl, flares at things, responds to his keeper, begs for food, and blows bubblenests just in case a female happens by. The behavioral difference between a too-cold and a comfortable betta is unmistakable. "Happy" is merely an anthropomorphism. -- __ Elaine T __ __' http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__ Has it ever occurred to you that some breeders might be breeding and keeping bettas at lower temperatures and thus creating lines of bettas that don't need 78 degrees to live comfortably? Or that a betta raised at lower temperatures as a young fish might adapt to them? No...it never has occurred to me because that would be messing with Mother Naure a little too much. How about Iguana breeders start trying to breed Iggy's that enjoy the frozen tundra of the Arctic. That would make about as much sense as a Betta breeder trying to breed and raise Bettas at low temps. Besides my dear, the Bettas them selves wouldn't want to spawn...their spawning temp is 83*f and the temp also plays a part in how many eggs hatch out, and even the sex of the fry. I don't mean to get snippy with you, Elaine, but what you said was just ludicrous. |
Tynk wrote:
Elaine T wrote: Tynk wrote: Richard Sexton wrote: If the fish is happy at 70 it's hard to argue with that. Bettas are all individuals rememebr? You missed the obvious. The fish isn't "happy" at 70*f. It's about 10 degrees too COLD! "Hard to argue that"? Too hard NOT too. Has it ever occurred to you that some breeders might be breeding and keeping bettas at lower temperatures and thus creating lines of bettas that don't need 78 degrees to live comfortably? Or that a betta raised at lower temperatures as a young fish might adapt to them? A betta kept too cold has a very clear set of behaviors. It sits in a pile of limp fins at the bottom of the tank, only moving to breathe from the surface and eat. A slightly warmer betta may swim around a bit, in case there's food or another male somewhere. A betta at adequate temperatures prowls the bowl, flares at things, responds to his keeper, begs for food, and blows bubblenests just in case a female happens by. The behavioral difference between a too-cold and a comfortable betta is unmistakable. "Happy" is merely an anthropomorphism. -- __ Elaine T __ __' http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__ Has it ever occurred to you that some breeders might be breeding and keeping bettas at lower temperatures and thus creating lines of bettas that don't need 78 degrees to live comfortably? Or that a betta raised at lower temperatures as a young fish might adapt to them? No...it never has occurred to me because that would be messing with Mother Naure a little too much. How about Iguana breeders start trying to breed Iggy's that enjoy the frozen tundra of the Arctic. That would make about as much sense as a Betta breeder trying to breed and raise Bettas at low temps. Besides my dear, the Bettas them selves wouldn't want to spawn...their spawning temp is 83*f and the temp also plays a part in how many eggs hatch out, and even the sex of the fry. I don't mean to get snippy with you, Elaine, but what you said was just ludicrous. 's OK. This is the wild frontier of usenet. Besides, I like it when I'm shot down and it's funny too! Great analogy. I really hadn't thought of how cold-blooded fish are and how unlikely anyone would be to breed for temperature preferance when I wrote that. I suspect a breeder could actually breed a cooler water betta over many generations by choosing jarred males that bubblenest at lower temps and spawning and raising each succesive generation in cooler water. However, I bet nobody has tried since color and finnage are usually of greater interest. However, I think what I said about deciding whether a nonbreeding pet betta is at adequate temps by its behavior and activity level holds. I also suspect that if Richard thinks his bettas are healthy and happy, they are. He's an awfully experienced aquarist. -- __ Elaine T __ __' http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__ |
I don't mean to get snippy with you,
What so somebody held a gun to your head and made you be snippy cause you didn't mean to be? Or did it just slip out when you wern't paying attention? Elaine, but what you said was just ludicrous. So is saying Bettas aren't happy unless they're at 80F. They're a lot happier at 72 with clean water and live food than they are at 80 with less than that. But if you don't try it you'll never know. -- Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org http://www.mbz.org | Mercedes Mailing lists: http://lists.mbz.org 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Killies, killi.net, Crypts, aquaria.net 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Old wris****ches http://watches.list.mbz.org |
I'm saying keeping an animal in temps that are 10 or more degrees lower
than what they need, created problems for that fish. Keeping Bettas at lower temps makes them more susceptible to bacterial infection, and will shorten their lifespan. Happy? I don't see it. Just because a Betta flares, moves about and blows a bubble nest does mean is healthy or thriving. A Betta kept at room temps is surviving. Big difference. Of course I wouldn't try keeping Bettas under those type of conditions. I know better than that, and it saddens me to think how many out there are being kept like that. Next to Goldfish, they're right up there in mistreated fish. Maybe you also think it's fine to house Goldfish in bowls. Or better yet...keep a Goldie in a 80*f tank. If he's still swimming, he must happy right? My point is that just because a fish is swimming around does not mean that it's in a proper setting. |
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