Rose anenome splitting
 

"I don't want to rule out that they might know that they
are feeding the anemone. How do we know that they don't
know that the anemone is eating the food?"

If they know that Wayne, then why do they bring sticks to anemones and other not eatable
items/objects


"The clownfish loved the
new addition, and started killing and draging the cleaner
shrimps, and other fish into the anemone. Nothing had
changed but the addition of the anemone. This raises the
question of what were they thinking when they went bazerk,
killing and feeding the anemene."

It is called a "threat behavioral response"

Just to throw out something kinda new. Some researchers think that a clowns **** is an
important food source to anemones. Base on this and a few other know things ( beating off
predators, etc..) it may bring clown and their anemone more to a mutualistic relationship.


I will not reply :-)


--
Boomer

If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up

Former US Army Bomb Technician (EOD)
Member; IABTI, NATEODA, WEODF, ISEE & IPS

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"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message
...
:I don't want to rule out that they might know that they
: are feeding the anemone. How do we know that they don't
: know that the anemone is eating the food?
:
: My personal fealing is that it is a little bit of both.
: Just because it is one, does not mean that it is not some
: of the other.
:
: For example:
:
: I had a customer that had a pair of clown fish with a
: variety of fish, and two skunk cleaner shrimp. They were
: all getting along just fine for a long time. Then he
: decided to add a carpet anemone. The clownfish loved the
: new addition, and started killing and draging the cleaner
: shrimps, and other fish into the anemone. Nothing had
: changed but the addition of the anemone. This raises the
: question of what were they thinking when they went bazerk,
: killing and feeding the anemene.
:
: My figuring is that they were going to breed, and fish
: that are breeding, are more agressive to other creatures,
: but, did they kill them to eat them later??? I don't think
: so. When damsel fish kill other fish, they don't drag them
: back to the spot where they sleep. So there's got to be a
: reason why a clownfish will kill a fish, and drag it back
: to the place where they sleep.
:
: And yes, I know that clown fish are categorized in with
: the damsel fish.
:
: Wayne Sallee
: Wayne's Pets
:
:
:
: AverageSchmuck wrote on 4/6/2006 1:01 PM:
: My intention is not to argue fight insult... none of that you guys are
: simply talking about something I really get into. Something I have
: done since I was a small child watch wildlife and track their behavior
: ... What I do and I think I do well in a job that involves that but
: money you need money to be formally trained.

Rose anenome splitting
 

Boomer wrote on 4/6/2006 5:53 PM:
"I don't want to rule out that they might know that they
are feeding the anemone. How do we know that they don't
know that the anemone is eating the food?"

If they know that Wayne, then why do they bring sticks to anemones and other not eatable
items/objects


Well it's sure not to eat it later :-)

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets

Rose anenome splitting
 

So back to the same thing, it thinks its anemone can eat a wooden stick or plastic straw
so it "feeds" it.


"Instinct does not have to mean "premeditated intentions"

You forgot a work :-) Innate


" But I still think that there is more design and purpose
: than many people see"

Base on what, you see better or more than others ??


There will not be a reply ;-)


--
Boomer

If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up

Former US Army Bomb Technician (EOD)
Member; IABTI, NATEODA, WEODF, ISEE & IPS

Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php

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"Pszemol" wrote in message ...
: "Wayne Sallee" wrote in message
...
: And yes I have known about this idea that "anemone fish
: are not intentionally feeding their anemone" for many
: years :-)
:
: But I still think that there is more design and purpose
: than many people see.
:
: And I agree that the definition of "feeding" does not have
: to include "intention".
:
: Exactly.
: Instinct does not have to mean "premeditated intentions".
:

Rose anenome splitting
 

"Boomer" wrote in message ...
"I don't want to rule out that they might know that they
are feeding the anemone. How do we know that they don't
know that the anemone is eating the food?"

If they know that Wayne, then why do they bring
sticks to anemones and other not eatable items/objects

Because they do not have a PhD in zoology ? :-)
Have you been exposed to a term "instinct"?
Do you think a dog "knows" to cover his droppings?
Or this is just an instinct? Do you think a baby
mammal "knows" that it needs to suck the mother
to survive or this is just blind instinct ?
The same might be with "clown feeding anemone" fenomena.
You expect too much "perfect sense" while interpreting
observation as intentions...

Even in humans it is difficult to judge other person.
Like - you see a person smoking a cigarette. Do you
assume based on this observation, the person intends
to kill himself from painfull lung cancer?

Maybe clown feels a temptation to bring food to his
anemone and does it without knowing exactly what is
he doing...

But this discussion drifted far away from the subject
and focused on YOU using common hobby terms in uncommon
meaning (to start with carpet anemone). You still did
not provide a dictionary quotation requiring intention
in the meaning of word "feeding".

I will not reply :-)

What are you afraid of? :-))

Rose anenome splitting
 

"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message ...
Boomer wrote on 4/6/2006 5:53 PM:
"I don't want to rule out that they might know that they
are feeding the anemone. How do we know that they don't
know that the anemone is eating the food?"

If they know that Wayne, then why do they bring sticks to anemones and other not eatable
items/objects

Well it's sure not to eat it later :-)

Good one, Wayne! :-))

Rose anenome splitting
 

"Boomer" wrote in message ...
My last post on this thread

I have found one more you sent 12 minutes after this one... ;-)
And one more, another 6 minutes later... :-))))
But this is perfectly fine with me :-))))) Feel free to add more!
Your posts are as always, very informative...

I sent you to a dictionary to see where you would go with it,
I. was disappointed. A std English dictionary is not the place
to be on this subject.

Could you do me a favor and QUOTE a *definition* of "feeding"
from one of such sources? Thank you. That would be helpfull
and constructive critic.

BTW -
We are not writing a PhD dissertation here - we are discussing
on a public forum, and we expect a common English to be used.
If you know you use a common word in a uncommon meaning, it
would be YOUR responsibility to warn about the difference since YOU
are the scientist here who knows both meanings, not us, hobbyists.

(see confusion about you using word "carpet anemone" to describe BTA).

"Your attempt of interpretation of what I am doing is amazing..."

Then why its it I pretty much know what your post are going to be

You "knew it", but after the fact...
That kind of knowing future is easy.
Do not give yourself too much credit ;-)

If you are fine at being wrong then why do you say the fish is
intentionally feeding its anemone, when all studies and experts
on clowns differ with you.

Because TO ME it looks like intentional feeding...
The same way like the robin bird feeding its chicks feeding.
Even if it is not intentional feeding, it is still feeding.
I do not care if it is premeditated or driven by a blind
instinct. It is feeding because food is actively provided.

This is the only definition of word feeding I know so far...
You are more than welcome providing a better definition
and I will gladly change my mind. As I said before - marine
zoology or animal behaviourism is not my business profession
so I do not feel bad making mistake in this field... :-))

I have probably been a pain in the ass on this thread ...
sorry and should have approached it differently.

Yes, it was noticable different than your previous
participation in this group... Instead of focusing
on the issue, you make it too much PERSONAL thing.
Short tempered and impatient with us, dumb hobbyist... :-)
That is sad change, I expected more from you as an expert here.
I hope it was just your bad day ;-)

Rose anenome splitting
 

"Boomer" wrote in message ...
So back to the same thing, it thinks its anemone can eat
a wooden stick or plastic straw so it "feeds" it.

Putting aside I have never seen this in my tank, tell me please:
Why is the clownfish bringing unedible items to its nest ?
I am sure it is not "to eat it later" :-)

I see female clown from my pair frequently CLEANING the nest
site by REMOVING vigorously items like shells, pieces of rock
or feeder-algae I put in tank for tangs. Also she is wiping
the sand surface clean by waging its tail fin creating quite
strong water current away from the anemone... pushing all
debris away from the nest.

Is this behaviour (bringing wooden sticks/straws)
observed in the nature? With anemone host or without one ?

"Instinct does not have to mean "premeditated intentions"

You forgot a work :-) Innate

Sorry, I do not follow this one...

Rose anenome splitting
 

Lol I am sorry but I do have to make a little fun here Psz please
forgive me.

Do you think a dog "knows" to cover his droppings?
Or this is just an instinct?

Does anyone else see the problem in the above statement cause I have
been around dogs my entire life and never observed a dog doing this
but my cats do.


Even in humans it is difficult to judge other person.
Like - you see a person smoking a cigarette. Do you
assume based on this observation, the person intends
to kill himself from painfull lung cancer?

The Cigarette/cancer conversation is one that can spin way out of
control. not ussually a good foundation for proving points.


;-) I am sorry bro but I found a little humor their. Please don't be
angry ;-)

Rose anenome splitting
 

Here is something to ponder on :

The Robin feeding her newly hatched chics is it instinct for her to do
this or is it learned response because her mother before her did it
and so forth. I ask this cause not just mom feeds pop does also. I
mean we don't necessarly remeber our birth or much from our first few
years but proven our subconcious does which is where people start to
call it instinct but is it really. I would imagine as a baby we take
to feeding on mom breast because we smell the fats when held up to
it.

Rose anenome splitting
 

"AverageSchmuck" wrote in message ...
Lol I am sorry but I do have to make a little fun here Psz please
forgive me.

Do you think a dog "knows" to cover his droppings?
Or this is just an instinct?

Does anyone else see the problem in the above statement cause I have
been around dogs my entire life and never observed a dog doing this
but my cats do.

Dog, cats, cangaroo - the name of the particular animal is not important
here. What is important here, that some animals, including humans with
huge and well working brains!!! DO certain things out of instinct, reflex.
Without putting much thinking into it. Similar thing can be with clownfish.

Even in humans it is difficult to judge other person.
Like - you see a person smoking a cigarette. Do you
assume based on this observation, the person intends
to kill himself from painfull lung cancer?

The Cigarette/cancer conversation is one that can spin way out of
control. not ussually a good foundation for proving points.

Yes, it is generally not a good idea to comment such thing to a stranger ;)

;-) I am sorry bro but I found a little humor their. Please don't be
angry ;-)

I am far from being angry, "bro" :-)