"Katra" wrote in message
...

But what I am wondering is, if the mesh is fine enough, how can they
remove the fish thru the net?

## It wasn't showing a heron removing a fish through a net. I didn't see
the heron get a fish in the film quip.

We have a very large local fish hatchery that used to have some problems
with Herons. When I drive by there now, there is rarely a heron in site
anymore.

All they use are pond nets as far as I can see.

The fry ponds are simply enclosed by a greenhouse so are indoors. Only
the growout ponds are netted.

## Because crisscrossed wires and sprayers don't work for long with herons.
They're totally useless where other fish predators are concerned. What may
work is having a dog who will remain near the ponds and will bark at and
chase birds. Not all dogs do. But again, dogs are useless against some
fish predators. I know. I have 3 dogs.

--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"Eat Right, Exercise, Die Anyway."
~~~~~~~ }((((((o
"They laugh because I'm different, I laugh because they're all the same."
http://www.heartoftn.net/users/windsong/index.html
Completely FREE softwa
http://www.pricelessware.org/thelist/index.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Katra" wrote in message
...
In article , "~ Windsong ~" P@P
wrote:

"mo" wrote in message
oups.com...
Can anyone help? I am a new Koi keeper, I put my first six Koi into
my
newly built pond in November. 10 days ago when I wend down to feed
them there were only five Koi and three of my gold fish had also gone.
I have a Heron that comes to the pond every day.

** NOTHING keeps herons out of a pond but netting! Get the bird netting
at
ACE Hardware or any Hardware store. It's less expensive than in Pet
Shops
or online. Some people will recommend water sprayers ($100.00) or
wire/strings around the pond - they don't work for long!

===========================================
What about hotwires?
They are nearly invisible if set up right and I know those will
discourage racoons......

## If raccoons are you're *only problem* then that would work. Since our
dogs do keep the coons away we have no need for an e.fence.

I have one for my dog to keep her away from the fence.

Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"Eat Right, Exercise, Die Anyway."
~~~~~~~ }((((((o
"They laugh because I'm different, I laugh because they're all the same."
http://www.heartoftn.net/users/windsong/index.html
Completely FREE softwa
http://www.pricelessware.org/thelist/index.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Derek Broughton" wrote in message
...
Benign Vanilla wrote:


"2pods" wrote in message
...
What I want to know is what herons taste like ?
snip

Resist....urge....to....say....


Aghhhhhh

THEY TASTE LIKE CHICKEN!!!!!


Thanks, Jeff. Now the urge for me to say it has gone away :-)

Hey you know me. I am always ready to look foolish in order to "take one"
for the Shareholders. :)

"Katra" wrote in message
...
snip
I suspect you'd be in no trouble at all. Your dog in your yard? Hardly a
crime. Now, if you shot the bird and held it down for spot to kill, that
might be an issue.

That's kind of the way I look at it... ;-)

Border collies are excellent guard dogs.
snip

I am not a lawyer. I don't play one on TV, and I didn't stay in a Holiday
Inn Express last night. Dislaimers aside, I keep my dog well trained, and
housed in a yard with gates, and locks, etc. If a critter makes it into my
yard, and she kills it, I'd be unhappy about it, but que sera. This goes for
neighbor's pets as well. If a cat wanders into my dog's space, and the dog
nabs it (not that she could, she's a total wuss when it comes to cats) again
I'd feel bad, but I would feel no obligation to the owner.


--
BV
Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com
http://www.iheartmypond.com
I'll be leaning on the bus stop post.

"~ Windsong ~" P@P wrote in message
...
snip
Here's a potentially radical idea. How about tolerating the birds and
designing a way for them to gravitate towards the far more replaceable
fish (and less emotionally attached) than the expensive koi? The best
design I've seen so far is a deep, vertically flat sided pond fed by a
long, shallow stream/waterfall at a public koi pond.

$$ Oh that would be lovely if we were rich. :-) Have you any idea what
something like that would cost? If we had that kind of money we could
call
in some pond builders and redo both ponds. In fact replace them with one
huge 3 to 4,000 gallon pond. But where would I put the plants then if
there
are no shelves? How would this keep the (bullfrogs, snakes, snappers)
King
Fishers out of the steep sided pond? Steep sided plants ponds are not
attractive or natural looking.

I beg your pardon. The near edge of my pond goes vertical to the bottom,
http://www.darofamily.com/jeff/files...e/p1010064.jpg. And I think
it's perty damn nice pond. :)

The stream served a second purpose too. It was planted with milfoil and
other plants, so it acted as a vegetative filter. The whole stream had
pretty good daylight exposure for plant growth while the actual pond was
partially shaded. Actually, the only foreign species in the pond was a
muskrat that kept trying to build its nest in the pump house. Watching
the
herons catch the fish in the stream added a nice natural touch I
thought.

$$ How did you keep the fish in the stream? And what about those of us
who
don't have $10,000+ to call in pond builders or don't have the space for
huge streams?

I built my stream, which is about 5-6 feet long, with scraps of liner. :)


--
BV
Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com
http://www.iheartmypond.com
I'll be leaning on the bus stop post.

"~ Windsong ~" P@P wrote in message
...
snip
I think Kathy is just saying there are options that work. For example,
by
hooting, hollering, running, screaming, flapping my arms technique
(patent
pending) has worked very well.

## So you stand outside or have someone stand outside from sunup to
sundown? We can't afford to pay someone to stay out there guarding our
ponds 7 days a week. In summer we often go away for weekends.

No, but that's my point. We've done this I think a grand total of three
times, and Mr. Heron has not been back. No maybe that is because of the
weather, but maybe, just maybe it's because we made it an unfriendly place
for him. Or maybe MY heron hates idiots that shout at him. I dunno. I am not
saying I have found the magic cure for Herons, but I have kept that one
away.

As for the summer, we go away a lot as well. So far this has not been a
problem.

No fish loss from Heron so far. Your Heron
and Kingfishers may be more persistent then mine. I have many ponds in
yards
around me, so maybe they just other, quieter sources of food. Either
way,
my
solution has so far...worked very well.
snip

## See above. We can't afford to hire a guard and we're not always home.
When we are, we are not at the windows watching for fish predators. I
would run out doing the screaming and flapping, with the 3 dogs no less -
I
wrote about it here several years ago. At first it worked. They'd stay
away for a few days. Then, after awhile, a few weeks maybe, the herons
would fly into nearby trees until I went back inside. Within 15 minutes
they were fishing again. Yes, they were persistent. We often saw one
fishing in the ponds while another was up in a nearby tree. Or one was
behind the house fishing the kiddy pools. On one occasion there were
three
in our yard.

I've never seen such a Heron problem. You should probably net your pond, and
stop inviting Alfred Hitchcock over for dinner. :)

snip
True that. Last year, one of our Koi disappeared, plants knocked over
and
a
very racoon like scat was found on the edge of the pond. Dern Racoons.
My
neighbor even mentioned to me he saw a racoon walking down the street
towards my house. He must have heard about the buffet. My fish will swim
into your hand if you sit there, so they are certainly dinner options
for
animals.

## Because of the dogs raccoons don't come into our yard. We have them as
well as deer, possums, skunks, red and blue fox, huge flocks of turkeys,
hawks......

We've got hawks, falcons, racoons, skunks, fox, neighbor cats, my cat, my
dog, more frogs then I can count, and periodically a snake or two. Oh and
there was that kanagaroo looking mouse thing in Novemeber.


--
BV
Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com
http://www.iheartmypond.com
I'll be leaning on the bus stop post.

"~ Windsong ~" P@P wrote in message
...
snip
## Because crisscrossed wires and sprayers don't work for long with
herons.
They're totally useless where other fish predators are concerned. What
may
work is having a dog who will remain near the ponds and will bark at and
chase birds. Not all dogs do. But again, dogs are useless against some
fish predators. I know. I have 3 dogs.
snip

My dog is an expert at chasing flocks of geese. Just ask her, when they fly
over...they just keep flying. She is very proud of this. She is also
painfully stupid sometimes.


--
BV
Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com
http://www.iheartmypond.com
I'll be leaning on the bus stop post.

In rec.ponds ~ Windsong ~ P@p wrote:
"Cichlidiot" wrote in message
...
Here's a potentially radical idea. How about tolerating the birds and
designing a way for them to gravitate towards the far more replaceable
fish (and less emotionally attached) than the expensive koi? The best
design I've seen so far is a deep, vertically flat sided pond fed by a
long, shallow stream/waterfall at a public koi pond.

$$ Oh that would be lovely if we were rich. :-) Have you any idea what
something like that would cost? If we had that kind of money we could call
in some pond builders and redo both ponds. In fact replace them with one
huge 3 to 4,000 gallon pond. But where would I put the plants then if there
are no shelves? How would this keep the (bullfrogs, snakes, snappers) King
Fishers out of the steep sided pond? Steep sided plants ponds are not
attractive or natural looking.

To quote one of my favorite characters... "my, but we are in a mood
today". You do seem to be quite argumentative on this subject. I will make
this one attempt at reason, but any more such illogical replies such as
"if we were rich" will be summarily ignored.

The setup I described was not likely to have been expensive. It was part
of a public park that was set up and maintained completely by volunteers
and donations (and most of those volunteers were part of the 60+ club, so
I doubt they contributed much to the digging of the whole thing). I was
not privy to the costs, but given these facts I doubt it was that much
more expensive than your standard pond and waterfall. The stream was not
some huge river as you seem to be thinking it was, just about 15-20 feet
long and no more than a foot deep leading from the waterfalls to the pond.
The labor may have been an issue given the age of many of the volunteers,
but then it always is an issue when digging out a pond. The key here is to
think beforehand and plan. Just as it would not be wise to put the pond
where all the runoff collects, one should also consider the wildlife of
the area when designing the pond.

As for the attractiveness, the pond was quite attractive with its
surrounding landscaping. It used plants that were fine in deep water,
floating plants and in the case of the lilies, supported by columns too
narrow to allow much perching space. I'm sure a smaller heron could have
tried, but I never observed one bothering because the stream was far
easier to wade into.

The stream was
teaming with mosquito fish, crayfish and occasionally goldfish fry. The
herons almost always ate from there instead of attempting to get anything
in the main pond because they could wade into the stream and have pretty
easy pickings.

$$ What stream? How long was the stream,? Herons do not want 1/2" fry or
small crayfish. How did you keep mosquito fish in the stream and out of the
pond itself?

What stream? The one I keep describing here that you called expensive in
the previous paragraph. Do try to keep up dear. The fish were not forced
to remain anywhere. The mosquito fish and fry could also be found in the
main pond and waterfall pools as well as along the stream. Nothing
restricted their movement so they were found everywhere, although the ones
found in the pools were probably sucked up by the pump and deposited there
unless they did salmon impressions and jumped upstream. The crayfish did
tend to stay in the stream, probably didn't like the drop at the end of
the stream into the pond.

Loosing those kind of fish wasn't a big deal (although I
suppose losing too many mosquito fish could be a problem in mosquito
season, but it's easy to get more).

$$ Mosquitoes do not breed in streams (moving water). I can't believe you
managed to keep the fish in the stream for the herons, and out of your
pond. Did you have a net at the end of the stream? How large were the
mosquito fish?

The water was not fast moving, so there was plenty of opportunity for
mosquito larva to breed. Just as water based larva occasionally will get
into indoor tanks if breeding gnats or mosquitos make it indoors, the
movement of the stream was insufficient to take care of the larva in and
of itself. Refer to prior paragraph as for fish movement between stream
and pond.

The stream served a second purpose too. It was planted with milfoil and
other plants, so it acted as a vegetative filter. The whole stream had
pretty good daylight exposure for plant growth while the actual pond was
partially shaded. Actually, the only foreign species in the pond was a
muskrat that kept trying to build its nest in the pump house. Watching the
herons catch the fish in the stream added a nice natural touch I thought.

$$ How did you keep the fish in the stream? And what about those of us who
don't have $10,000+ to call in pond builders or don't have the space for
huge streams?

My, we are repetitive aren't we. This sort of language would get you
branded at the least excitable and at the worst a troll in another
newsgroup I visit. For the moment, I will leave it at "excitable" in my
mind, but the line is quickly becoming blurred.

We had taken the scarecrow down for the winter and today
a great blue heron visited the pond. Dh chased it off
before it had a chance to catch a fish. The weather is
warm today but that is supposed to change tonight.
Hopefully we'll have a nice layer of ice on the pond soon.
The koi are deep but the goldfish are still up near the surface.
--
Bonnie
NJ

"Benign Vanilla" wrote in message
...

"~ Windsong ~" P@P wrote in message
...
snip
Here's a potentially radical idea. How about tolerating the birds and
designing a way for them to gravitate towards the far more replaceable
fish (and less emotionally attached) than the expensive koi? The best
design I've seen so far is a deep, vertically flat sided pond fed by a
long, shallow stream/waterfall at a public koi pond.

$$ Oh that would be lovely if we were rich. :-) Have you any idea
what
something like that would cost? If we had that kind of money we could
call
in some pond builders and redo both ponds. In fact replace them with
one
huge 3 to 4,000 gallon pond. But where would I put the plants then if
there
are no shelves? How would this keep the (bullfrogs, snakes, snappers)
King
Fishers out of the steep sided pond? Steep sided plants ponds are not
attractive or natural looking.

I beg your pardon. The near edge of my pond goes vertical to the bottom,
http://www.darofamily.com/jeff/files...e/p1010064.jpg. And I
think
it's perty damn nice pond. :)

## Very nice pond. :-) My large pond has a plant shelf along 3 sides.

$$ How did you keep the fish in the stream? And what about those of us
who
don't have $10,000+ to call in pond builders or don't have the space for
huge streams?

I built my stream, which is about 5-6 feet long, with scraps of liner. :)

## Sounds nice. ;-)

--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
http://www.heartoftn.net/users/windsong/index.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~