Starting a reef tank
 

On Oct 1, 11:33 pm, George Patterson wrote:
Big Habeeb wrote:
Dont have the brand name on me - happened to see it at the LFS...but
yes, the box says in great big letters "2 timers" :)

Does it look like this?http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod.../2/product.web

George Patterson
If you torture the data long enough, eventually it will confess
to anything.

That would be the one...although I opted for a digital model with only
one timer, alternating the power source. I've had bad experiences
with mechanical timers in the past, so figured I'd try something new.

On those lines, let me ask you this: at what point do I need to turn
on the sump and whatnot? Right now the tank is about 1/4 full...my
assumption is that nothing gets turned on until the bit at the top of
the overflow that sucks in the water is submerged, correct? If so, is
it safe to add live rock prior to running things, so I dont have to
take water OUT as I add volume with the rock?
Mitch

Starting a reef tank
 

Big Habeeb wrote:

That would be the one...although I opted for a digital model with only
one timer, alternating the power source.

Which one did you get?

On those lines, let me ask you this: at what point do I need to turn
on the sump and whatnot? Right now the tank is about 1/4 full...my
assumption is that nothing gets turned on until the bit at the top of
the overflow that sucks in the water is submerged, correct?

That's correct. You can't circulate water through the sump unless the overflow
or syphon can pull water down to the sump.

If so, is
it safe to add live rock prior to running things, so I dont have to
take water OUT as I add volume with the rock?

You need to have the rock completely submerged, and you need to have the water
circulating within the tank to keep it aerated and flowing past the rock. This
is usually done with powerheads, pumps, wavemakers, or units like the Tunze
circulators. As long as you have something like that, it's not necessary to have
the sump circulating.

Of course, you probably have your skimmer connected to the sump and maybe your
heater is in there too? It would be wise to get the sump working within a day of
putting the rock in. The sooner you get the skimmer working, the better.

George Patterson
If you torture the data long enough, eventually it will confess
to anything.

Starting a reef tank
 

On Oct 2, 10:21 am, George Patterson wrote:
Big Habeeb wrote:
That would be the one...although I opted for a digital model with only
one timer, alternating the power source.

Which one did you get?

On those lines, let me ask you this: at what point do I need to turn
on the sump and whatnot? Right now the tank is about 1/4 full...my
assumption is that nothing gets turned on until the bit at the top of
the overflow that sucks in the water is submerged, correct?

That's correct. You can't circulate water through the sump unless the overflow
or syphon can pull water down to the sump.

If so, is
it safe to add live rock prior to running things, so I dont have to
take water OUT as I add volume with the rock?

You need to have the rock completely submerged, and you need to have the water
circulating within the tank to keep it aerated and flowing past the rock. This
is usually done with powerheads, pumps, wavemakers, or units like the Tunze
circulators. As long as you have something like that, it's not necessary to have
the sump circulating.

Of course, you probably have your skimmer connected to the sump and maybe your
heater is in there too? It would be wise to get the sump working within a day of
putting the rock in. The sooner you get the skimmer working, the better.

George Patterson
If you torture the data long enough, eventually it will confess
to anything.

I guess the concern was more that I wanted to be able to start the
tank circulating with the sump prior to actually adding the live
rock...but unless I want to be pulling water OUT of the tank, I dont
think that's going to be a possibility. It just makes me nervous that
I'm going to put all this live rock in, going under the assumption
that all my stuff is going to work as it's supposed to. Guess I
should have filled the tank with tap water and tested prior to getting
the R/O fired up. Nothing like a trial by fire to see if this thing
is actually going to work. On the good side, I'm only running the r/o
while I'm home at night, so at least I'l lbe present if a leak occurs
and a flood starts...so I'll have a good 3 days of slowly filling to
think about it, before I get ready to add anything.

Is it necessary for the syphon to be kept where it is? I'm just
wondering if I could put a longer piece of PVC on there, and drop the
syphon down so I can start it when the tank is, say 50% full...then
once I'm happy with the way things are running, replace it with the
shorter PVC when I add the rock and the like...hrm.

Dammit, I hate thinking this hard this early in the day.
Mitch

Starting a reef tank
 

"Big Habeeb" wrote in message ups.com...
On Oct 1, 11:33 pm, George Patterson wrote:
Big Habeeb wrote:
Dont have the brand name on me - happened to see it at the LFS...but
yes, the box says in great big letters "2 timers" :)

Does it look like this?http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod.../2/product.web

George Patterson
If you torture the data long enough, eventually it will confess
to anything.

That would be the one...although I opted for a digital model with only
one timer, alternating the power source. I've had bad experiences
with mechanical timers in the past, so figured I'd try something new.

I am little confused here... you wrote that your box was saying
"two timers" in big letters. So how is it? One or two times?

If yours is single timer, digital, than there is nothing unusual
about it - there are several models available in the stores...
Usually they have big variety before Christmass, apparently
people use these timers to run Christmass ornaments on the tree.

On those lines, let me ask you this: at what point do I need to turn
on the sump and whatnot? Right now the tank is about 1/4 full...my
assumption is that nothing gets turned on until the bit at the top of
the overflow that sucks in the water is submerged, correct? If so, is
it safe to add live rock prior to running things, so I dont have to
take water OUT as I add volume with the rock?

Sump works with an overflow. It will not work until the tank is
full of water. If you do not want to loose water when you add
rock than you need to keep the tank running not filled up
without the sump.

Actually, it would be the best to test run tank and sump with
freshwater before you fill tank with sal****er, just to make sure
pump handles the load, make sure sump does not overflow etc.
You had this idea mentioned in any book about the reef.
The most important test you need to make when you are
watching is to turn off the power to your tank (pumps) and
see if the pipes are designed right to not overflow your sump
and water does not pour on your carpet/hardwood floor.

Starting a reef tank
 

On Oct 2, 12:32 pm, "Pszemol" wrote:
"Big Habeeb" wrote in oglegroups.com...
On Oct 1, 11:33 pm, George Patterson wrote:
Big Habeeb wrote:
Dont have the brand name on me - happened to see it at the LFS...but
yes, the box says in great big letters "2 timers" :)

Does it look like this?http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod.../2/product.web

George Patterson
If you torture the data long enough, eventually it will confess
to anything.

That would be the one...although I opted for a digital model with only
one timer, alternating the power source. I've had bad experiences
with mechanical timers in the past, so figured I'd try something new.

I am little confused here... you wrote that your box was saying
"two timers" in big letters. So how is it? One or two times?

Maybe my update above wasn't clear. They make a model that has 2
timers, the dial type timers. You can see it on the coralife
website. The one that I opted for is the more standard, digital
timer...where the day/night plugs are simply on alternating schedules:
when one is on, the other is off etc.


If yours is single timer, digital, than there is nothing unusual
about it - there are several models available in the stores...
Usually they have big variety before Christmass, apparently
people use these timers to run Christmass ornaments on the tree.

Yes, I know that much. I wasn't looking for unusual, I was just
looking for what seemed easiest, and most effective for my
needs...which to this point is simple to have an auto swap between day
and night lights every 12 hours.

On those lines, let me ask you this: at what point do I need to turn
on the sump and whatnot? Right now the tank is about 1/4 full...my
assumption is that nothing gets turned on until the bit at the top of
the overflow that sucks in the water is submerged, correct? If so, is
it safe to add live rock prior to running things, so I dont have to
take water OUT as I add volume with the rock?

Sump works with an overflow. It will not work until the tank is
full of water. If you do not want to loose water when you add
rock than you need to keep the tank running not filled up
without the sump.

Actually, it would be the best to test run tank and sump with
freshwater before you fill tank with sal****er, just to make sure
pump handles the load, make sure sump does not overflow etc.
You had this idea mentioned in any book about the reef.

I don't mean to be rude here, but I've read about 5 books now, and
while i've taken in a LOT, I openly admit that much as escaped my
short term memory banks (blame it on too much pot in college). So
when I'm asking questions here, I'm well aware that I can find the
answer in a book...however I generally find it easier to ask people
with experience, rather than diving back through a 300 page book
looking for one, specific, answer. I apologize if it's irritating you
to see simple questions that a book will answer, but I am trying to
use this NG to supplement and reiterate the knowledge I've accumulated
from the books I've read.


The most important test you need to make when you are
watching is to turn off the power to your tank (pumps) and
see if the pipes are designed right to not overflow your sump
and water does not pour on your carpet/hardwood floor.

I'm confused...how would it overflow the sump with the power turned
off? With the power off it wont be sucking in any water, nor will it
be pushing any back out...so how would it overflow???

Starting a reef tank
 

The digital timer made by Coralife is manufacture
number 01692
It has one timer, and here's the details:

Aqualight Digital Power Center

8-Outlet Timer/Power Strip 4 timer-controlled outlets
7 time cycle settings
Alternates daytime and nighttime outlets
Can be set to turn on/off 7 times per day at
different days of the week
4 constant-power outlets
Master on/off control switch
3-foot heavy-duty power cord
Sliding outlet safety covers
3-prong grounded plug and outlets
15 amp 120 volt (1875 watts max) circuit breaker
UL listed
The Aqualight Digital Power Center is a 24-hour
day-night alternating timer device that is ideal for
all Aqualight lighting systems. The unit can be set
to turn on/off 7 times per day at different days of
the week. The Aqualight Digital Power Center has 4
constant -power outlets and 4 alternating timer-
controlled outlets (2 daytime and 2 nighttime) to
make the day and night lighting applications easier
to manage. The digital feature allows the
alternating timer to set the day-night cycle at
different times of the day at different days of the
week. When the 2 daytime timer-controlled outlets
are on, the 2 nighttime timer-controlled outlets are
off.

I still think that it is so stupid that Coralife
closed it's web site for renovation.

Wayne Sallee


Wayne Sallee wrote on 10/1/2007 9:12 PM:
Yea I thought he was talking about the same thing, now I see that he is
talking about a digital one. I think Coralife made digital ones too, but
not sure. I just now went to the coralife website, and it's down for
remodeling. How stupid is that? Anytime a website is redone, the old one
should remain untill the new one replaces it. It amazes me how so many
companies run their web sites.

I'll check another source later :-)

Wayne Sallee


Pszemol wrote on 10/1/2007 4:18 PM:
"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message
...
Pszemol wrote on 10/1/2007 1:03 PM:
"Big Habeeb" wrote in message
ups.com...
Dont have the brand name on me - happened to see it at the LFS
...but yes, the box says in great big letters "2 timers" :)

Please check it for me if you have a chance...
I was looking for such timer and could not find.
Thanks.

You can see the details on the Coralife web site.

Do you think he is talking about mechanical timer
discussed in the thread "Timer Review"?

Starting a reef tank
 

"Big Habeeb" wrote in message oups.com...
The most important test you need to make when you are
watching is to turn off the power to your tank (pumps) and
see if the pipes are designed right to not overflow your sump
and water does not pour on your carpet/hardwood floor.

I'm confused...how would it overflow the sump with the power turned
off? With the power off it wont be sucking in any water, nor will it
be pushing any back out...so how would it overflow???

You ask us to re-write the book again. Here is your homework:
"Using any book (or www.google.com search engine) find description
of the water flow in a fishtank filtration system based on a sump" :-)

Good luck.

Starting a reef tank
 

George Patterson wrote on 10/1/2007 11:31 PM:
Big Habeeb wrote:

1. Where should I place the heater? The LFS recommended dropping it
either into the refugium or into hte overflow box...any opinions on
that?

Given that choice, I would put it in the overflow box.


A heater in the overflow box would have a greater
danger of finding itself out of the water if placed
in an overflow box, than if it were placed at the
bottom of the sump. It would also me more likely to
be in the way if placed in the overflow box.

Wayne Sallee

Starting a reef tank
 

On Oct 2, 2:00 pm, Wayne Sallee wrote:
George Patterson wrote on 10/1/2007 11:31 PM:

Big Habeeb wrote:

1. Where should I place the heater? The LFS recommended dropping it
either into the refugium or into hte overflow box...any opinions on
that?

Given that choice, I would put it in the overflow box.

A heater in the overflow box would have a greater
danger of finding itself out of the water if placed
in an overflow box, than if it were placed at the
bottom of the sump. It would also me more likely to
be in the way if placed in the overflow box.

Wayne Sallee


Wayne,
Appreciate the tip...I have the heater situated, laying down, at the
bottom of the sump, so it should be good to go. Also have the skimmer
setup...so I think at this point it's just a matter of getting all the
water situated in the tank and turning it on. That will be the real
telling moment, and one that I am looking forward to, and fearing
greatly, all at the same time. I guess my plan for the moment has
changed to
1. add substrate
2. continue adding water till about 60% filled...add salt and allow to
stir...make sure salt content is good etc, and then add the live rock
3. Add/take out water as needed to accomodate live rock, and then
crank it up and keep my fingers crossed :)
Mitch

Starting a reef tank
 

You want to fill it with tap water with nothing else
in it, and fully test it out, then drain the water
out, and add sand, and then salt water.

Wayne Sallee


Big Habeeb wrote on 10/2/2007 10:38 AM:
On Oct 2, 10:21 am, George Patterson wrote:
Big Habeeb wrote:
That would be the one...although I opted for a digital model with only
one timer, alternating the power source.
Which one did you get?

On those lines, let me ask you this: at what point do I need to turn
on the sump and whatnot? Right now the tank is about 1/4 full...my
assumption is that nothing gets turned on until the bit at the top of
the overflow that sucks in the water is submerged, correct?
That's correct. You can't circulate water through the sump unless the overflow
or syphon can pull water down to the sump.

If so, is
it safe to add live rock prior to running things, so I dont have to
take water OUT as I add volume with the rock?
You need to have the rock completely submerged, and you need to have the water
circulating within the tank to keep it aerated and flowing past the rock. This
is usually done with powerheads, pumps, wavemakers, or units like the Tunze
circulators. As long as you have something like that, it's not necessary to have
the sump circulating.

Of course, you probably have your skimmer connected to the sump and maybe your
heater is in there too? It would be wise to get the sump working within a day of
putting the rock in. The sooner you get the skimmer working, the better.

George Patterson
If you torture the data long enough, eventually it will confess
to anything.

I guess the concern was more that I wanted to be able to start the
tank circulating with the sump prior to actually adding the live
rock...but unless I want to be pulling water OUT of the tank, I dont
think that's going to be a possibility. It just makes me nervous that
I'm going to put all this live rock in, going under the assumption
that all my stuff is going to work as it's supposed to. Guess I
should have filled the tank with tap water and tested prior to getting
the R/O fired up. Nothing like a trial by fire to see if this thing
is actually going to work. On the good side, I'm only running the r/o
while I'm home at night, so at least I'l lbe present if a leak occurs
and a flood starts...so I'll have a good 3 days of slowly filling to
think about it, before I get ready to add anything.

Is it necessary for the syphon to be kept where it is? I'm just
wondering if I could put a longer piece of PVC on there, and drop the
syphon down so I can start it when the tank is, say 50% full...then
once I'm happy with the way things are running, replace it with the
shorter PVC when I add the rock and the like...hrm.

Dammit, I hate thinking this hard this early in the day.
Mitch