Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
 

please cross post as he really needs help. Ingrid

(Timothy Tom) wrote:

I have a 150 gallon outdoor pond. It was populated by 3 koi, and a
small catfish for over a year and a half until the automatic refill
was inadvertantly turned off. When it was turned back on the fish
died the next day. I assumed it was from a large influx of
chlorinated water. Anyway, I took the opportunity to totally clean
out the pond including about a inch of sludge, and small rocks on the
bottom. New water was added, dechlorinator/conditioning solution
added, and the pond was left to circulate for 48 hours. New koi were
added (after acclimation) and died within 1 hour. I changed the water
3 complete times, reconditioned the water, let it circulate for 1
week, added some comets which died within two hours. I changed the
water again three times, let it circulate for 3 weeks, took a water
sample to my local LFS. They told me that the ammonia was slightly
high (but not deadly) pH, was about 8.1 (slightly high but not
deadly). Basically they told me that they did not know why the fish
died. Using the same tap water that the pond is refilled from, I
placed some comets which lived for a week without problem in a bowl in
my home. When placed the comets in the pond, after acclimation they
died within a day. WHAT IS GOING ON? It appears that there is
something quite toxic to fish in the fish pond. Still I have changed
out the water multiple multiple times with no improvement. The toxic
substance must be specific to the pond, since the tap water did not
kill the fish in a fish bowl. The only things I have in the pond are
two pumps (one is a new fountain pump (Beckett) and the other is the
waterfall pump which has been there for two years without problem.
The pumps are on GFI circuits so I don't think there could be a large
short circuit. There are Lava type rocks in the pond which, once
again were in there with the koi for over a year without problem. I
did power wash the rocks prior to putting them back in the pond. The
water temp is in the low 80's. The water is perfectly clear. Please
any help appreciated since I am at a loss what to do next.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
 

Are you using the same equipment to refill the pond each time? Could there
be some kind of contaminate in the equipment to refill the pond? I wondered
because you probably used a different system to fill the bowl. Just a
thought from a new pond person. Kc
wrote in message
...
please cross post as he really needs help. Ingrid

(Timothy Tom) wrote:

I have a 150 gallon outdoor pond. It was populated by 3 koi, and a
small catfish for over a year and a half until the automatic refill
was inadvertantly turned off. When it was turned back on the fish
died the next day. I assumed it was from a large influx of
chlorinated water. Anyway, I took the opportunity to totally clean
out the pond including about a inch of sludge, and small rocks on the
bottom. New water was added, dechlorinator/conditioning solution
added, and the pond was left to circulate for 48 hours. New koi were
added (after acclimation) and died within 1 hour. I changed the water
3 complete times, reconditioned the water, let it circulate for 1
week, added some comets which died within two hours. I changed the
water again three times, let it circulate for 3 weeks, took a water
sample to my local LFS. They told me that the ammonia was slightly
high (but not deadly) pH, was about 8.1 (slightly high but not
deadly). Basically they told me that they did not know why the fish
died. Using the same tap water that the pond is refilled from, I
placed some comets which lived for a week without problem in a bowl in
my home. When placed the comets in the pond, after acclimation they
died within a day. WHAT IS GOING ON? It appears that there is
something quite toxic to fish in the fish pond. Still I have changed
out the water multiple multiple times with no improvement. The toxic
substance must be specific to the pond, since the tap water did not
kill the fish in a fish bowl. The only things I have in the pond are
two pumps (one is a new fountain pump (Beckett) and the other is the
waterfall pump which has been there for two years without problem.
The pumps are on GFI circuits so I don't think there could be a large
short circuit. There are Lava type rocks in the pond which, once
again were in there with the koi for over a year without problem. I
did power wash the rocks prior to putting them back in the pond. The
water temp is in the low 80's. The water is perfectly clear. Please
any help appreciated since I am at a loss what to do next.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
 

I have a 150 gallon outdoor pond. It was populated by 3 koi, and a
small catfish for over a year and a half until the automatic refill
was inadvertantly turned off. When it was turned back on the fish
died the next day.

How is your water treated, by whom? Some municipalities have stopped
using chlorine to treat domestic water and have started using things like
ozone, bromine partly to improve the taste and partly because they have
longer half lives and are considered more effective. Check with your
water supplier.

How are you refilling the pond? If you are using the automatic re-filler
mentioned above try filling from some other source. Use the kitchen tap
and a hose. I only suggest this as your problems started when you turned
the automatic system back on.

If the water is still being chlorinated the a test for this might be to
fill a small container with tap water, either let it sit for 24Hrs or add
de-chlorinator and introduce a small fish. If the fish survives try the
same thing using the water source you are using to fill the pond. Take
the sample at the point it enters the pond, but don't take it from the
pond. If the fish survives this part of the test then the problem is in
the pond, if it doesn't then the problem is in the water used to fill the
pond.

WARNING, If the fish doesn't survive part one of the test GET YOUR WATER
TESTED YOU MAY BE AT RISK!

Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
 

What's the fish look like when it dies? Does it have all it's fins or have
they been eaten away leaving only the thicker parts? Are there any red marks
on it's belly? Do the gills look normal or are they red? Two things that can
kill are different water temperatures and different PH. Chlorine (or other
chemicals) normally cause red gills. Nitrites usually cause red belly. Fins
eaten away is usually PH.


wrote in message
...
please cross post as he really needs help. Ingrid

(Timothy Tom) wrote:

I have a 150 gallon outdoor pond. It was populated by 3 koi, and a
small catfish for over a year and a half until the automatic refill
was inadvertantly turned off. When it was turned back on the fish
died the next day. I assumed it was from a large influx of
chlorinated water. Anyway, I took the opportunity to totally clean
out the pond including about a inch of sludge, and small rocks on the
bottom. New water was added, dechlorinator/conditioning solution
added, and the pond was left to circulate for 48 hours. New koi were
added (after acclimation) and died within 1 hour. I changed the water
3 complete times, reconditioned the water, let it circulate for 1
week, added some comets which died within two hours. I changed the
water again three times, let it circulate for 3 weeks, took a water
sample to my local LFS. They told me that the ammonia was slightly
high (but not deadly) pH, was about 8.1 (slightly high but not
deadly). Basically they told me that they did not know why the fish
died. Using the same tap water that the pond is refilled from, I
placed some comets which lived for a week without problem in a bowl in
my home. When placed the comets in the pond, after acclimation they
died within a day. WHAT IS GOING ON? It appears that there is
something quite toxic to fish in the fish pond. Still I have changed
out the water multiple multiple times with no improvement. The toxic
substance must be specific to the pond, since the tap water did not
kill the fish in a fish bowl. The only things I have in the pond are
two pumps (one is a new fountain pump (Beckett) and the other is the
waterfall pump which has been there for two years without problem.
The pumps are on GFI circuits so I don't think there could be a large
short circuit. There are Lava type rocks in the pond which, once
again were in there with the koi for over a year without problem. I
did power wash the rocks prior to putting them back in the pond. The
water temp is in the low 80's. The water is perfectly clear. Please
any help appreciated since I am at a loss what to do next.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
 

I've been thinking on this one all day. It appears as if all the variables
are covered. My one suggestion for cleaning the lava rock is to put it on a
grill and cook it like a steak: it will burn out any residue that's in the
rocks, and nothing is left after they heat up. It doesn't smell too good,
but it's an extremely effective way to clean the rock, much more effective
than simply blasting it with a hose or power washer. If the pumps were
leaking, you'd notice the film on the water. After the water's been changed
so many times, one would "assume" that anything toxic had been washed out.
To ensure, I'd nuke the pond with a heavy PP dose which would neutralize
most toxins, then maybe put a couple of pounds of activated charcoal in a
knee-high stocking for a few days where there's heavy water flow. Between
the two, if there are any toxins in the water or on the liner, they will be
removed. Because the fish lived in the same water in the house, but died
when placed in the pond, it leads me to believe some of the simple things
like pH differences, water temp change, fish stress in the bag (ammonia?
heat from the sun?) The power washer is suspect, but if you say it hasn't
been used for anything toxic (BTW, fertilizers CAN be toxic . . .) then the
above recommended things would cure that, especially firing up the lava
rock! This is a tough one: everything I can think of has already been tried
or eliminated. I'll keep thinking, and maybe someone will trip over the
answer.

Best of luck,
Lee

wrote in message
...
please cross post as he really needs help. Ingrid

(Timothy Tom) wrote:

I have a 150 gallon outdoor pond. It was populated by 3 koi, and a
small catfish for over a year and a half until the automatic refill
was inadvertantly turned off. When it was turned back on the fish
died the next day. I assumed it was from a large influx of
chlorinated water. Anyway, I took the opportunity to totally clean
out the pond including about a inch of sludge, and small rocks on the
bottom. New water was added, dechlorinator/conditioning solution
added, and the pond was left to circulate for 48 hours. New koi were
added (after acclimation) and died within 1 hour. I changed the water
3 complete times, reconditioned the water, let it circulate for 1
week, added some comets which died within two hours. I changed the
water again three times, let it circulate for 3 weeks, took a water
sample to my local LFS. They told me that the ammonia was slightly
high (but not deadly) pH, was about 8.1 (slightly high but not
deadly). Basically they told me that they did not know why the fish
died. Using the same tap water that the pond is refilled from, I
placed some comets which lived for a week without problem in a bowl in
my home. When placed the comets in the pond, after acclimation they
died within a day. WHAT IS GOING ON? It appears that there is
something quite toxic to fish in the fish pond. Still I have changed
out the water multiple multiple times with no improvement. The toxic
substance must be specific to the pond, since the tap water did not
kill the fish in a fish bowl. The only things I have in the pond are
two pumps (one is a new fountain pump (Beckett) and the other is the
waterfall pump which has been there for two years without problem.
The pumps are on GFI circuits so I don't think there could be a large
short circuit. There are Lava type rocks in the pond which, once
again were in there with the koi for over a year without problem. I
did power wash the rocks prior to putting them back in the pond. The
water temp is in the low 80's. The water is perfectly clear. Please
any help appreciated since I am at a loss what to do next.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
 

Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
 

To address the power-washer concerns, the washer has been used by me
only. It has only had water used in it. Nothing else, nada, no
detergents, no fertilizer, nothing except water from a hose receiving
the same municipal water. As far as what the fish look like when I
put them in. This does cause me some concern. When I first put the
fish in, it appears as if something really irritates them. Most of
the fish I have witnessed appear to intermittently dart around for
about 2-3 min, and then appear to settle to the bottom in a upright
(i.e. apparently resting) position. One of the goldfish that was
first added, I found had actually jumped out of the pond. I put it
back in, and it died within 10 mins. I have then witnessed several
fish die within 10-20 min. I think this makes it clear that there is
no other creature/critter involved in killing them. It further seems
to support some toxin/strong irritant killing them. Upon dying, I
have really not noticed any redness anywhere on the fish. They simply
look completely normal except they are limp and dead.

Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
 

"Timothy Tom" wrote in message
om...
Thank you all for your thoughts. The pond has always been refilled
using an auto-refill valve put in by the original landscaper who
installed the pond. The fact that fish lived in a bowl of the same
treated tap-water that is used to fill the pond suggests to me that
the problem does not lie in the municipal water source. It is
possible that it has something to do with the auto-refill I suppose.

Axolotl said:
How are you refilling the pond? If you are using the automatic re-filler
mentioned above try filling from some other source. Use the kitchen tap
and a hose. I only suggest this as your problems started when you turned
the automatic system back on.

I think Axolotl was on to something.
Not the water itself, but something in the auto-refill plumbing.
Willing to risk 1 more fish? Try filling pond from a hose?
~MattO

Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
 

Which dechlorinating/conditioning product did you use? How much did
you put in the goldfish bowl and what is the goldfish bowl volume?
How much did you put in the 150 gallon pond? And, how are you
acclimating the new fish prior to stocking?


Theron wrote:


(Timothy Tom) wrote:

I have a 150 gallon outdoor pond. It was populated by 3 koi, and a
small catfish for over a year and a half until the automatic refill
was inadvertantly turned off. When it was turned back on the fish
died the next day. I assumed it was from a large influx of
chlorinated water. Anyway, I took the opportunity to totally clean
out the pond including about a inch of sludge, and small rocks on the
bottom. New water was added, dechlorinator/conditioning solution
added, and the pond was left to circulate for 48 hours. New koi were
added (after acclimation) and died within 1 hour. I changed the water
3 complete times, reconditioned the water, let it circulate for 1
week, added some comets which died within two hours. I changed the
water again three times, let it circulate for 3 weeks, took a water
sample to my local LFS. They told me that the ammonia was slightly
high (but not deadly) pH, was about 8.1 (slightly high but not
deadly). Basically they told me that they did not know why the fish
died. Using the same tap water that the pond is refilled from, I
placed some comets which lived for a week without problem in a bowl in
my home. When placed the comets in the pond, after acclimation they
died within a day. WHAT IS GOING ON? It appears that there is
something quite toxic to fish in the fish pond. Still I have changed
out the water multiple multiple times with no improvement. The toxic
substance must be specific to the pond, since the tap water did not
kill the fish in a fish bowl. The only things I have in the pond are
two pumps (one is a new fountain pump (Beckett) and the other is the
waterfall pump which has been there for two years without problem.
The pumps are on GFI circuits so I don't think there could be a large
short circuit. There are Lava type rocks in the pond which, once
again were in there with the koi for over a year without problem. I
did power wash the rocks prior to putting them back in the pond. The
water temp is in the low 80's. The water is perfectly clear. Please
any help appreciated since I am at a loss what to do next.


A couple of questions.

I read that you have put goldfish in your preform that you had in a
bowl with the same declorinator/ conditioning solution that you use in
your preform. Did you get your water from the same source? That is,
when you fill your preform, I am assuming that you fill it with a hose
or its dedicated water source. Is this correct? I have seen garden
hoses break down chemically over time and become toxic.
The same with underground sprinkler systems.
Let get rid of that variable also. Try to use the same source of water
that you used for the goldfish that you had in the bowl.

Theron

Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
 

Place a fish in the pond. If he dies scoop some water out of the pond and
place in a bowl. Next place fish #2 in the bowl. If he dies you rule out any
type of power issue and rule in a chemical problem. If he doesn't die you
rule out chemical problem and rule in power problem.

Sam


wrote in message
...
please cross post as he really needs help. Ingrid

(Timothy Tom) wrote:

I have a 150 gallon outdoor pond. It was populated by 3 koi, and a
small catfish for over a year and a half until the automatic refill
was inadvertantly turned off. When it was turned back on the fish
died the next day. I assumed it was from a large influx of
chlorinated water. Anyway, I took the opportunity to totally clean
out the pond including about a inch of sludge, and small rocks on the
bottom. New water was added, dechlorinator/conditioning solution
added, and the pond was left to circulate for 48 hours. New koi were
added (after acclimation) and died within 1 hour. I changed the water
3 complete times, reconditioned the water, let it circulate for 1
week, added some comets which died within two hours. I changed the
water again three times, let it circulate for 3 weeks, took a water
sample to my local LFS. They told me that the ammonia was slightly
high (but not deadly) pH, was about 8.1 (slightly high but not
deadly). Basically they told me that they did not know why the fish
died. Using the same tap water that the pond is refilled from, I
placed some comets which lived for a week without problem in a bowl in
my home. When placed the comets in the pond, after acclimation they
died within a day. WHAT IS GOING ON? It appears that there is
something quite toxic to fish in the fish pond. Still I have changed
out the water multiple multiple times with no improvement. The toxic
substance must be specific to the pond, since the tap water did not
kill the fish in a fish bowl. The only things I have in the pond are
two pumps (one is a new fountain pump (Beckett) and the other is the
waterfall pump which has been there for two years without problem.
The pumps are on GFI circuits so I don't think there could be a large
short circuit. There are Lava type rocks in the pond which, once
again were in there with the koi for over a year without problem. I
did power wash the rocks prior to putting them back in the pond. The
water temp is in the low 80's. The water is perfectly clear. Please
any help appreciated since I am at a loss what to do next.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
 

Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
 

"Andrew Burgess" wrote in message news:bh0er4
snip
As I previously mentioned the ammonia level was tested by
the LFS, who reported that is was a little high (I am afraid I dont
remember the number or the units) but not deadly.

Should be zero, of course.
snip

I have been thinking about this, but lurking out of fear of ignorance
but...If the fish only last 10 minutes, how is ANY ammonia getting in there?
I suspect the water filler system. Sam's idea of using a bowl of water from
the pond is a good idea, to rule out electrical issues.

BV.

Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
 

BenignVanilla wrote:

"Andrew Burgess" wrote in message news:bh0er4
snip
As I previously mentioned the ammonia level was tested by
the LFS, who reported that is was a little high (I am afraid I dont
remember the number or the units) but not deadly.

Should be zero, of course.
snip

I have been thinking about this, but lurking out of fear of ignorance
but...If the fish only last 10 minutes, how is ANY ammonia getting in
there?

You can get ammonia if the water company is using chloramine and you are
using a normal dechlorinator. The dechlorinator strips the chlorine
out, leaving ammonia.

AmQuel is recommended in this situation...

-Donald
--
"There is nothing so strong as gentleness, and there is nothing so
gentle as real strength." St. Francis de Sales

Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
 

Andrew Burgess wrote in news:bh0er4$m4e$2
@athlon.cichlid.com:

(Timothy Tom) writes:

As far as the water parameters,
recently the temp has been around 83 degrees.


I missed the temperature posting, that does seem hot but when looked in the
following discussion
(http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/...057203893.html) they
seemed to think that 90F for GF and 85F for shubunkins was OK.
Whereas these guys (http://www.goldfishparadise.com/water/temperature.php)
seem to think that 86F is the max.

Did I read you correctly somewhere back in this thread in saying that the
fish survive quite nicely when placed in a container with your tap water?

I think we need to setup some form of checklist in order to tackle this
problem systematically, but before we get to that. I have some questions:
· How is your pond constructed?
· What furniture does it have (rocks, plants, planters, waterfalls etc)
· Between discovering that the auto-filler hand been turn off and
turning it back on, what if anything did you do (filter cleaning, moving or
changing plants)?
· Where does the auto filler get its water from? I remember seeing
somebody who had an automatic fill system that did not use tap water, it
was connected to a tank/cistern that collected rain water (try to be
environmentally friendly) they ran into a problem when the cistern became
contaminated, I their case it was a dead animal I think.


some ideas on testing to find problem, if anybody has a better one speak
up.

1. Does a fish survive if placed in tap water (say from kitchen tap)?
a. If yes go on to (2).
b. If no you have a domestic water problem (too much chlorine,
municipality using something other than chlorine, contamination of your
water supply)

2. Does a fish survive if placed in water drawn from the auto-filler
(water is put directly into same container use in (1)?
a. If yes, then the problem would seem to be with the pond and its
fitting/landscaping.
b. If no, then the auto-filler seems to introducing some form of
contamination.

3. Fill the pond from some source other than the auto-filler, suggest
same source as in one. Let it stand for 48 hours. Does a fish survive if
placed in a container of water taken from the pond? This test would confirm
test 2.
a. Yes, the problem is definitely with the auto-filler.
b. No, both pond and auto-filler are the problem. It maybe that the pond
and its furniture have been contaminated by the auto-filler. My suggestion
at this point would be to remove all pond furniture and clean the pond
using the water source in (1). DO NOT put the pond furniture back, refill
it using water source as in (1) and try this test again. If the fish
survive this time its some part of the furniture. You could try cleaning
each piece and hope that you've got rid of the offending material, but I
would be inclined to dump them and start with new stuff.

Hope this helps.

Axolotl

Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
 

On Fri, 8 Aug 2003 15:15:48 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Burgess
wrote:

(Timothy Tom) writes:

As far as the water parameters,
recently the temp has been around 83 degrees.

I've never seen my pond that hot. Since no one else has commented
I suppose you hot weather folks see this all the time with no problems?
Otherwise, I'd shade it until it dropped 10 degrees and try again.

As I previously mentioned the ammonia level was tested by
the LFS, who reported that is was a little high (I am afraid I dont
remember the number or the units) but not deadly.

Should be zero, of course.

The fact that this
pond and all equipment, and rocks in it supported fish successfully
for the past two years, is what is so confusing and frustrating for
me. I will try to test for some of the other parameter mentioned.

For the water temperature, is the shading any different?

My pond stays 10 degrees cooler being shaded in the afternoon and i
am one of those hot weather folks in Texas.

Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
 

yep, that is very suspicious. Ingrid

"Lee Brouillet" wrote:
Because the fish lived in the same water in the house, but died
when placed in the pond, it leads me to believe some of the simple things
--- , fish stress in the bag (ammonia?
heat from the sun?)


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
 

Most posters appear to be focusing in on the auto-refill system.
Although I find it hard to understand how some type of toxic substance
could get in and persist in there after so much water has gone through
the system, I will try some of the suggestions on testing this (i.e.
filling the pond with tap water from another source, and testing
goldfish in a bowl filled with auto-refill water). Once again the
auto-refill comes off an outside hose water outlet (supplied by the
city water supply).

Thanks,
Timothy

Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
 

Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
 

Brett,

Is this new filter system be a charcoal cartridge or other consumable filter
system? If so, I would highly recommend the use of a chlorine test kit,
before, during and after each use. My BIL was using a home water purifier,
charcoal based, and it was not that old, when he killed one fish, had two
seriously distressed fish. When we tested for chlorine, the tap water was
swimming pool safe.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"Brett Fogle" wrote in message
om...
(Timothy Tom) wrote in message
. com...
Most posters appear to be focusing in on the auto-refill system.
Although I find it hard to understand how some type of toxic substance
could get in and persist in there after so much water has gone through
the system, I will try some of the suggestions on testing this (i.e.
filling the pond with tap water from another source, and testing
goldfish in a bowl filled with auto-refill water). Once again the
auto-refill comes off an outside hose water outlet (supplied by the
city water supply).

Thanks,
Timothy


Timothy,

Would you be interested in testing a new pond water filter that we are
developing?

It screws onto the end of your hose, and removes all the toxins
(metals, chlorine, chloramine, etc.)?

Let me know, we're looking for some user feedback.

You can contact me at

Good luck either way,

Thanks,

Brett

Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
 

brett
Timothy,

Would you be interested in testing a new pond water filter that we are
developing?

Tim,

In MHO it would be foolish to add anything new until you have solved
the original problem.

Sue W

Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
 

Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
 

Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
 

I agree.

"Andrew Burgess" wrote in message
...
(Timothy Tom) writes:

Anyway, today I plan to do the following test. I will get a bowl of
water from the auto-refill outlet, and a bowl of water from the
kitchen faucet (same source I used successfully to keep fish in a bowl
for a week.

Maybe also a bowl from the pond (and let it cool off)?

Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
 

Followup UPDATE

The following test was done. One bowl of water from the Auto-refill
system was collected in a plastic bowl, and a second bowl was filled
with tap water from the kitchen faucet. Both bowls were treated with
dechlorinator/conditioner (TetraAqua Aquasafe). Two goldfish per bowl
were acclimated and released into the bowls. It is important to note
that both bowls were kept in the house (Thermostat kept at 79 degrees
during the day, and 84 degrees at night.

RESULTS AFTER APPROXIMATELY 24 HRS.

ALL GOLDFISH ALIVE.

Well this rules out the auto-refill system as the culprit. I did
remeasure the temperature of the pond water and found it to be 85
degrees. We are having a heat wave in South Texas. Could all my
problems be as simply as the pond being too hot? Can 85 degree water
kill goldfish in a couple of hours. I never saw the goldfish gulping
air near the surface as I would expect if the temp were too hot, and
the oxygen level too low in the pond.

My next test will be to go get a couple bags of ice, and lower the
temp of my pond to below 80 degrees and see if the goldfish make it
through a few hours. As I mentioned in my earlier post, the pond did
originally have 3 koi and a catfish in it for nearly two years, and I
believe koi are more heat-tolerant than goldfish. At this point I
have ruled out the following as culprits in killing the pond fish:
1) Municipal water supply (both from auto-refill and kitchen faucet
water supported fish inside my house in a bowl)
2) Electical short-circuit/current leak (Fish died with all electrical
devices unplugged/pond circuit is on GFI circuit, and any leak should
switch the plug off anyway)
3) Rock in pond (Rock removed, and fish still died)
4)Chemicals, contaminants, poisons (After over ten complete water
changes, if the water is still toxic then I have discovered a highly
deadly biotoxin that probably should have killed my whole family by
now.
5) Pond liner (Commercial pre-formed liner in use for over two years.
6) pH, Ammonia (tested and while not great, not likely to be able to
be acutely toxic to fish.

There is not a whole lot else to test now.

Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
 

Tdtom wrote
6) pH, Ammonia (tested and while not great, not likely to be able to
be acutely toxic to fish.

I've been following this thread, though I'm no expert, but I have two questions
today.

What are the test measurements exactly for PH and ammonia?

Are all fish found dead the same time of day or varied times?


k30a
and the watergardening labradors
http://www.geocities.com/watergarden...dors/home.html

Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
 

I am really thinking about giving up on keeping fish in this pond. I
bought 3 bags of ice, and placed them in a large trash bag to prevent
leakage of water. The pond temperature came down to 83 degrees. The
goldfish taken from the bowl from the auto refill system, alive for
24hrs, was acclimated to the pond temp and released in the pond. After
release it looked fine. I watched it for about 10 mins, and once
again it looked fine. After about 90 mins. I checked the pond again
and found it floating. Unless someone tells me that 83 degree water
can kill a goldfish within two hours, I have nothing else to test. I
have no other theories. I have tested everything I can possibly test,
and ruled out everything that can be ruled out. One of the last things
I can do is take the pond water that just killed the fish and bring it
in to the house to further decrease the temp.

Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
 

Okay... How many gallons of water are in the pond?
How old is your test kit? What are the numbers
for ammonia? What is the pH? NitrIte?

Saying the ammonia " ...not great not likely to be able
to be toxic to the fish" is a big clue.
Makes me think you are missing something Very Crucial.

Buy a new test for the above tests or a kit!

Please get back to us on the ammonia and pH, etc.
numbers.

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"Timothy Tom" wrote in message
om...
I am really thinking about giving up on keeping fish in this pond. I
bought 3 bags of ice, and placed them in a large trash bag to prevent
leakage of water. The pond temperature came down to 83 degrees. The
goldfish taken from the bowl from the auto refill system, alive for
24hrs, was acclimated to the pond temp and released in the pond. After
release it looked fine. I watched it for about 10 mins, and once
again it looked fine. After about 90 mins. I checked the pond again
and found it floating. Unless someone tells me that 83 degree water
can kill a goldfish within two hours, I have nothing else to test. I
have no other theories. I have tested everything I can possibly test,
and ruled out everything that can be ruled out. One of the last things
I can do is take the pond water that just killed the fish and bring it
in to the house to further decrease the temp.

Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
 

In rec.ponds Timothy Tom wrote:
I am really thinking about giving up on keeping fish in this pond. I
bought 3 bags of ice, and placed them in a large trash bag to prevent
leakage of water. The pond temperature came down to 83 degrees. The
goldfish taken from the bowl from the auto refill system, alive for
24hrs, was acclimated to the pond temp and released in the pond. After
release it looked fine. I watched it for about 10 mins, and once
again it looked fine. After about 90 mins. I checked the pond again
and found it floating. Unless someone tells me that 83 degree water
can kill a goldfish within two hours, I have nothing else to test. I
have no other theories. I have tested everything I can possibly test,
and ruled out everything that can be ruled out. One of the last things
I can do is take the pond water that just killed the fish and bring it
in to the house to further decrease the temp.

Since that remains the one thing you haven't tested. I say do it. Take one
of the bowls you used in the previous tests (that the fish survived in).
Bring it inside and let it cool off for a day or two. Then try. If the
fish dies, it's not the temp. If it survives, then it is the temp. You
might also want to look into if there is someone in your area who can do
fish necropsies on the dead fish. Perhaps they'd be able to determine the
cause of death.

Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
 

On 12 Aug 2003 17:14:39 -0700, (Timothy Tom) wrote:

I am really thinking about giving up on keeping fish in this pond. I
bought 3 bags of ice, and placed them in a large trash bag to prevent
leakage of water. The pond temperature came down to 83 degrees. The
goldfish taken from the bowl from the auto refill system, alive for
24hrs, was acclimated to the pond temp and released in the pond. After
release it looked fine. I watched it for about 10 mins, and once
again it looked fine. After about 90 mins. I checked the pond again
and found it floating. Unless someone tells me that 83 degree water
can kill a goldfish within two hours, I have nothing else to test. I
have no other theories. I have tested everything I can possibly test,
and ruled out everything that can be ruled out. One of the last things
I can do is take the pond water that just killed the fish and bring it
in to the house to further decrease the temp.

My goldfish survived 88 for a couple weeks.

Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
 

Timothy Tom wrote in message
om...
I am really thinking about giving up on keeping fish in this pond. I
bought 3 bags of ice, and placed them in a large trash bag to prevent
leakage of water. The pond temperature came down to 83 degrees. The
goldfish taken from the bowl from the auto refill system, alive for
24hrs, was acclimated to the pond temp and released in the pond. After
release it looked fine. I watched it for about 10 mins, and once
again it looked fine. After about 90 mins. I checked the pond again
and found it floating. Unless someone tells me that 83 degree water
can kill a goldfish within two hours, I have nothing else to test. I
have no other theories. I have tested everything I can possibly test,
and ruled out everything that can be ruled out. One of the last things
I can do is take the pond water that just killed the fish and bring it
in to the house to further decrease the temp.

Using the pond water in the house won't give much of a difference with your
heat wave. Is it possible to rig up some shadecloth over the pond to see if
the water can be cooled a bit out of the direct sun?
It also might be worthwhile to try some warmth loving fish in the pond.
Perhaps a male Betta as it can handle less than perfect water, a couple rosy
reds, some danios, those sort of small testers.

Jim

Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
 

Timothy Tom wrote:
... The pond temperature came down to 83 degrees. The
goldfish ... was acclimated to the pond temp and released ... After,
about 90 mins. I checked the pond again and found it floating ...
I have tested everything I can possibly test,
and ruled out everything that can be ruled out. One of the last things
I can do is take the pond water that just killed the fish and bring it
in to the house to further decrease the temp.

Another test you might want to do is to take a water sample to your
local extension, agricultural or water office and ask them to test the
water for toxic substances. It may cost a bit, but certainly less than
continually trying to replace the fish. I wouldn't want a pond that
couldn't support life -- I'd be afraid to put my hands in it or allow
other birds or animals near it.
--
Zk (sig compliments of BV)
3500gal pond, 13 pond piggies
Oregon, Zone 6

Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
 

Timothy Tom wrote:


There is not a whole lot else to test now.

Water from pond, in a bowl, cooled to indoor temperature.

Water from pond to water analyist or chemical analysis.

-D
--
"There is nothing so strong as gentleness, and there is nothing so
gentle as real strength." St. Francis de Sales

Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
 

"Jim Brown" writes:


Timothy Tom wrote in message
. com...
I am really thinking about giving up on keeping fish in this pond. I
bought 3 bags of ice, and placed them in a large trash bag to prevent
leakage of water. The pond temperature came down to 83 degrees. The
goldfish taken from the bowl from the auto refill system, alive for
24hrs, was acclimated to the pond temp and released in the pond. After
release it looked fine. I watched it for about 10 mins, and once
again it looked fine. After about 90 mins. I checked the pond again
and found it floating. Unless someone tells me that 83 degree water
can kill a goldfish within two hours, I have nothing else to test. I
have no other theories. I have tested everything I can possibly test,
and ruled out everything that can be ruled out. One of the last things
I can do is take the pond water that just killed the fish and bring it
in to the house to further decrease the temp.

Using the pond water in the house won't give much of a difference with your
heat wave. Is it possible to rig up some shadecloth over the pond to see if
the water can be cooled a bit out of the direct sun?

Isn't inside the house out of direct sun :-)

Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
 

Another update:

A bowl of pond water which had just done in a goldfish was taken
inside the house and allowed to equilibrate to the same temp as the
other bowl of water containing kitchen faucet water. I was concerned
that the elevated temp of the outside pond water was responsible for
killing fish. I took one of the goldfish that had been living in the
kitchen faucet water for over 24hrs, and placed it in the
temp-equilibrated pond water. I stayed up for a couple of hours, and
although the fish had not died, it was clearly not doing well when I
went to bed. It was dead in the morning, while the fish in the bowl
with kitchen faucet water were fine.

After all the tests and dead goldfish, I believe that I have
determined a possible cause. When adding a large trash bag filled
with ice to cool the pond, I caused considerable waves in the pond. I
noticed that there was a small puddle next to the pond which moved in
sync with the pond water disturbance. I believe that there is a leak
in the pond somewhere (difficult to tell with this black preformed
liner) which is in equilibrium with water which has collected under
the pond. The water under the pond must have some toxic substance in
it which is contaminating the pond. This conclusion makes sense to me
since water taken directly from the auto-refill does not kill fish,
but water coming from the auto-refill system into a freshly cleaned
pond liner does quickly kill fish.

As far as the pond size, I believe I was incorrect in my original
posting that the pond is about 150 gallons. A landscaper installed
the pond, so I don't have the documentation on it. I went to the pond
liner manufacturer site and I believe I found the liner that matches
our shape and it is 250 gallons.

I plan to completely empty the pond to dryness, and thoroughly inspect
the pond liner to see if I can find any leaks.

Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
 

Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
 

TEST RESULTS of Deadly Pond Water:

O.K. I tested the pond water which killed a goldfish within two hours.
Please note that this water has been sitting there for over 48 hours,
so it is not exactly the same water that killed the fish.

The pH measured at 7.7 using Tetra test kit, the nitrate measured at
perhaps 1 PPM (color between zero and the 2 PPM color on the color
scale) using Salifert test kit, the total ammonia measured at between
..25 and .5 PPM using a Tetra test kit.

Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
 

Thanks Tim! Those numbers should reveal something is amiss.

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"Timothy Tom" wrote in message
m...
"Nedra" wrote in message
thlink.net...
Please Tim ... You still have not answered the questions I have
regarding Ammonia? pH? NirItes?
What are these values in actual numbers?


O.K. Nedra, I will test those tonight.

Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
 

Hi Tim, I just caught up with this thread going back to the 8th of Aug. See
my guesses below:

On 14 Aug 2003 14:46:44 -0700, (Timothy Tom) wrote:
TEST RESULTS of Deadly Pond Water:

O.K. I tested the pond water which killed a goldfish within two hours.
Please note that this water has been sitting there for over 48 hours,
so it is not exactly the same water that killed the fish.

The pH measured at 7.7 using Tetra test kit, the nitrate measured at
perhaps 1 PPM (color between zero and the 2 PPM color on the color
scale) using Salifert test kit, the total ammonia measured at between
.25 and .5 PPM using a Tetra test kit.

Nitrate is definitely not the problem. Since your test measures from 1 to 2
ppm I'm sure it is nitrate and not the nitrite test which measure in 0.00.
A nitrite number would be nice. With no fish for 48 hrs and a reading of
ammonia either means you have chloramines that you're not detoxing with the
right product and after 48 hours those number are lower than what they
originally were when first filled and treated with just a dechlorinator. If
you don't have chloramines in your water system, then I'd definitely say
that leak you've found, is adding fertilizer and who knows what.

Last year there was a mystery fish kill of a pond that a vendor ran a story
on. Turned out it was the feather rock in the pond, all these fine
microscopic glass particles coming off the rock and ripping the fishes'
gills up. ~ jan

See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
 

After all the tests and dead goldfish, I believe that I have
determined a possible cause. When adding a large trash bag filled
with ice to cool the pond, I caused considerable waves in the pond. I
noticed that there was a small puddle next to the pond which moved in
sync with the pond water disturbance. I believe that there is a leak
in the pond somewhere (difficult to tell with this black preformed
liner) which is in equilibrium with water which has collected under
the pond. The water under the pond must have some toxic substance in
it which is contaminating the pond. This conclusion makes sense to me
since water taken directly from the auto-refill does not kill fish,
but water coming from the auto-refill system into a freshly cleaned
pond liner does quickly kill fish.
I think you have probably found the problem. I had preformed ponds for my
first two ponds, hooked together with a short stream. The ponds cracked on
the third season. My ponds were located above the septic system leach
field, and I was having a lot of problems that I think may have come from
the exchange of water between the pond and leach field. If this is the
case, then you could be getting significant amounts of hydrogen sulfide in
the water which is very toxic to the fish, and is not one of the usual tests
that we perform. Check for the leaks.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html

Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
 

On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 01:32:37 GMT, "RichToyBox"
wrote:

After all the tests and dead goldfish, I believe that I have
determined a possible cause. When adding a large trash bag filled
with ice to cool the pond, I caused considerable waves in the pond. I
noticed that there was a small puddle next to the pond which moved in
sync with the pond water disturbance. I believe that there is a leak
in the pond somewhere (difficult to tell with this black preformed
liner) which is in equilibrium with water which has collected under
the pond. The water under the pond must have some toxic substance in
it which is contaminating the pond. This conclusion makes sense to me
since water taken directly from the auto-refill does not kill fish,
but water coming from the auto-refill system into a freshly cleaned
pond liner does quickly kill fish.
I think you have probably found the problem. I had preformed ponds for my
first two ponds, hooked together with a short stream. The ponds cracked on
the third season. My ponds were located above the septic system leach
field, and I was having a lot of problems that I think may have come from
the exchange of water between the pond and leach field. If this is the
case, then you could be getting significant amounts of hydrogen sulfide in
the water which is very toxic to the fish, and is not one of the usual tests
that we perform. Check for the leaks.

3rd yr. huh... bummer.

Well, ......*sigh*........I guess i will have to dig another pond in
the next 18 months. You know, with a liner and all...SEG