Few odd Questions Any help appreciated (pond/water couorse building/sturgeon) (UK)
 

Hi all..

Newbie posting here for first time (please be gentle)

First off, I've just built a 1000 Gallon pond (not bad considering my garden
is so small) but I want to have a water feature flowing into it. However
all the ready made Water courses are wrong shape/too big/small, so I got to
thinking about expanding foam and liner, making my own... Has anyone done
this before?? Will it be better to paint the expanding foam with a rubber
compound pond sealant paint? Or cover with a liner? Its not gonna be too
huge and will be well supported.. But the fence behind the pond is VERY
boring to look at.

This pond WILL be populated with fish (koi, Shibunkins (sp) and Sturgeon
amongst possible other additions.. (blue orfe seem to be a very likely
addition).

Now to another Question.. I have some sturgeon (3 off) and the other
evening I went out to the garden about 11 pm (pitch dark) and the sturgeon
were sticking there whole heads out of the water and making a grunting
sound?? This has me worried (they are 2' long each) and are at present in
an holding tank (old bath tub) while the pond is sorted. (bath tub having a
3000 gallon filtration system running in it to make sure water stays clean
and clear.(including a 15 watt UV clarifier))

pond will be ready for population (excluding the "feature") in a week but
the feature will be a removable item so can be made separately from the
pond!

sorry for the long post, but thought the details MAY be relevant

Any help and advice offered will be most helpful..

Lost

Few odd Questions Any help appreciated (pond/water couorse building/sturgeon) (UK)
 

All I know is, 1,000 gallons is too small for Koi...
Kirsten
"Lostin1999" wrote in message
...
Hi all..

Newbie posting here for first time (please be gentle)

First off, I've just built a 1000 Gallon pond (not bad considering my
garden
is so small) but I want to have a water feature flowing into it. However
all the ready made Water courses are wrong shape/too big/small, so I got
to
thinking about expanding foam and liner, making my own... Has anyone done
this before?? Will it be better to paint the expanding foam with a rubber
compound pond sealant paint? Or cover with a liner? Its not gonna be too
huge and will be well supported.. But the fence behind the pond is VERY
boring to look at.

This pond WILL be populated with fish (koi, Shibunkins (sp) and Sturgeon
amongst possible other additions.. (blue orfe seem to be a very likely
addition).

Now to another Question.. I have some sturgeon (3 off) and the other
evening I went out to the garden about 11 pm (pitch dark) and the sturgeon
were sticking there whole heads out of the water and making a grunting
sound?? This has me worried (they are 2' long each) and are at present
in
an holding tank (old bath tub) while the pond is sorted. (bath tub having
a
3000 gallon filtration system running in it to make sure water stays clean
and clear.(including a 15 watt UV clarifier))

pond will be ready for population (excluding the "feature") in a week but
the feature will be a removable item so can be made separately from the
pond!

sorry for the long post, but thought the details MAY be relevant

Any help and advice offered will be most helpful..

Lost

Few odd Questions Any help appreciated (pond/water couorse building/sturgeon) (UK)
 

"k conover" wrote in message
...
All I know is, 1,000 gallons is too small for Koi...
Kirsten
snip

A generally excepted ratio of Koi to Water is 1,000 gallons for the first
Koi and 100 gallons for each additional Koi. So 4 Koi, for example, should
be in 1300 gallons of water. The key thing to remember here, is that this is
a rule thumb, and nothing more.

BV.

Few odd Questions Any help appreciated (pond/water couorse building/sturgeon) (UK)
 

I know not everyone follows this rule; I've just been told by the owner of a
major water garden designer store/installer that in order for them to thrive
(live their full life span, have less disease problems, etc) koi should be
in a larger pond.
Kirsten
"Benign Vanilla" wrote in message
...

"k conover" wrote in message
...
All I know is, 1,000 gallons is too small for Koi...
Kirsten
snip

A generally excepted ratio of Koi to Water is 1,000 gallons for the first
Koi and 100 gallons for each additional Koi. So 4 Koi, for example, should
be in 1300 gallons of water. The key thing to remember here, is that this
is
a rule thumb, and nothing more.

BV.

Few odd Questions Any help appreciated (pond/water couorse building/sturgeon) (UK)
 

"k conover" wrote in message
...
I know not everyone follows this rule; I've just been told by the owner of
a
major water garden designer store/installer that in order for them to
thrive
(live their full life span, have less disease problems, etc) koi should be
in a larger pond.

snip

Realistically, you could raise Koi in your kitchen sink, if you kept the
water clean and free of toxins. The larger bodies of water that we discuss
for Koi, a la the 1000+100 gallon rule, is to allow for buffering and
chemistry swings. A spawning's worth of Ammonia is much more toxic to a fish
500 gallons then to a fish in 1000 gallons.

The 1000+100 gallon rule provides a rule of thumb that assumes you do not
have perfect conditions, perfect filtration, etc.

BV.

Few odd Questions Any help appreciated (pond/water couorse building/sturgeon) (UK)
 

Having read many of your posts, I know that you're a pond expert, and I
don't want to start a flame war, but you could raise a child in a closet if
you wanted as well, but if you care about the Koi as a living being and not
just a water ornament, you would want it to be happy and give it plenty of
space in which to swim.
Kirsten
"Benign Vanilla" wrote in message
...

"k conover" wrote in message
...
I know not everyone follows this rule; I've just been told by the owner
of
a
major water garden designer store/installer that in order for them to
thrive
(live their full life span, have less disease problems, etc) koi should
be
in a larger pond.

snip

Realistically, you could raise Koi in your kitchen sink, if you kept the
water clean and free of toxins. The larger bodies of water that we discuss
for Koi, a la the 1000+100 gallon rule, is to allow for buffering and
chemistry swings. A spawning's worth of Ammonia is much more toxic to a
fish
500 gallons then to a fish in 1000 gallons.

The 1000+100 gallon rule provides a rule of thumb that assumes you do not
have perfect conditions, perfect filtration, etc.

BV.

Few odd Questions Any help appreciated (pond/water couorsebuilding/sturgeon) (UK)
 

On 6/14/04 10:37 AM, "Benign Vanilla" wrote:

Realistically, you could raise Koi in your kitchen sink, if you kept the
water clean and free of toxins. The larger bodies of water that we discuss
for Koi, a la the 1000+100 gallon rule, is to allow for buffering and
chemistry swings. A spawning's worth of Ammonia is much more toxic to a fish
500 gallons then to a fish in 1000 gallons.

The 1000+100 gallon rule provides a rule of thumb that assumes you do not
have perfect conditions, perfect filtration, etc.

And if I may humbly add, anything over 1,000 gallons is also more likely to
provide an adequate swimming depth for Koi, which to my mind would have to
be a minimum of three feet.

Joe,
(who only has gold fish, one Oscar and a turtle.)



-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

Few odd Questions Any help appreciated (pond/water couorsebuilding/sturgeon) (UK)
 

I think that's what BV was suggesting - that you want the fish to be happy.

Joe

On 6/14/04 11:48 AM, "k conover" wrote:

Having read many of your posts, I know that you're a pond expert, and I
don't want to start a flame war, but you could raise a child in a closet if
you wanted as well, but if you care about the Koi as a living being and not
just a water ornament, you would want it to be happy and give it plenty of
space in which to swim.



-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

Few odd Questions Any help appreciated (pond/water couorse building/sturgeon) (UK)
 

"k conover" wrote in message
...
Having read many of your posts, I know that you're a pond expert, and I
don't want to start a flame war, but you could raise a child in a closet
if
you wanted as well, but if you care about the Koi as a living being and
not
just a water ornament, you would want it to be happy and give it plenty of
space in which to swim.
snip

I am by no means a pond expert, but thanks for the compliment.

As for the topic, I think you are misunderstanding me. I agree with
everything you said which is why I used the 1000+100 rule when I implemented
my pond. I wanted the pigs to have plenty of room to swim and enjoy life.

BV.

Few odd Questions Any help appreciated (pond/water couorse building/sturgeon) (UK)
 

I have Koi..never have followed that rule... BUT Useing the rule
described below you are saying that you need 1000 gallons of water to
succesfully keep one KOI Healthy??? I disagree.... MIKE
"Benign Vanilla" wrote in message
...

"k conover" wrote in message
...
All I know is, 1,000 gallons is too small for Koi...
Kirsten
snip

A generally excepted ratio of Koi to Water is 1,000 gallons for the first
Koi and 100 gallons for each additional Koi. So 4 Koi, for example, should
be in 1300 gallons of water. The key thing to remember here, is that this
is
a rule thumb, and nothing more.

BV.

Few odd Questions Any help appreciated (pond/water couorse building/sturgeon) (UK)
 

I too am very new to all of this. I read a very interesting newbie article
once which said "Figure out how many fish your pond can support - then start
with 1/10th that." Also read "Pond keeping is not a science it is an art".
Ponding is not a formula. There are just too many variables which can
frequently change making each pond it's own little learning experience. You
will make mistakes - that's a given. Start slowly and your mistakes wont
cost you nearly as much in time, money and satisfaction. The bigger the
cushion to start the less the bruise in learning. Get to know your pond,
your filter, your fish, your unthought of problems. Quarantine all new fish
and plants before adding new problems to your pond. Don't start with
feeders. These things and more will help to keep new problems from becoming
a string of disasters. I say this having not done most of these things, but
I sure would do it differently if I had a second chance. Things will be
just so much more controlled and happy for everybody and everything. I
suspect there are some 'fast track' people who could also add their
disasters - but they're no longer ponders. Yes I think the 1000+ rule is
probably overstated.
I have already seen several EXPERIENCED ponders who have broken it. But if
you are soliciting advice and INEXPERIENCED this is probably a very good
rule. Start slowly and someday you will probably figure out how to 'break
the rules' safely in your own pond with your specific variables, or figured
out why you shouldnt. Or if you're like many in this group you'll have a
bigger pond and altogether different issues.

BTW - I dont know a thing about sturgeon. But my guess is, if they are
anything like comets you are on the way to your first three mistakes.
Filter not cylced, they got bugs, etc.

Bill Brister
Austin, Texas

Few odd Questions Any help appreciated (pond/water couorse building/sturgeon) (UK)
 

wrote in message ...
I have Koi..never have followed that rule... BUT Useing the rule
described below you are saying that you need 1000 gallons of water to
succesfully keep one KOI Healthy??? I disagree.... MIKE
snip

What I am saying is that you can keep a Koi alive in your kitchen sink with
the proper filtration. BUT, since none of have our ponds in a labratory with
carefuly monitoring filtering, it is good to give some buffer space to
prevent large swings in the water parameters. The 1000+100 rule is a good
rule of thumb for hosting a pond full of Koi, simply because it provides an
easy to remember number, and enough water to properly buffer spikes in water
chemistry. In addition, as Sam pointed out, 1000 gallons will often result
in a size and shape pond that gives the Koi room to move.

BV.

Few odd Questions Any help appreciated (pond/water couorse building/sturgeon) (UK)
 

I would say that ponding is mostly science. as in we know what will kill koi and try
to avoid that. science tells us how to be very conservative when starting out.
what water parameters are needed for healthy fish.
how much water, depth etc. is needed for stable pond temperature and "buffer" for
when/if things go wrong. in the south the problem is heat, in the north it is ice.
aeration, filtration.. why it is needed, what it does.
quarantine and why that is important.
water and lots of it is the very most important component of keeping fish. if the
water can be kept pristine keeping fish is a snap (well unless there is a predator or
somebody dumps poison in or around the pond).
art is when people knowingly bend or break the rules and get away with it.
Ingrid


"Newbie Bill" wrote:
Also read "Pond keeping is not a science it is an art".
Ponding is not a formula. There are just too many variables which can
frequently change making each pond it's own little learning experience. You
will make mistakes - that's a given. Start slowly and your mistakes wont
cost you nearly as much in time, money and satisfaction. The bigger the
cushion to start the less the bruise in learning. Get to know your pond,
your filter, your fish, your unthought of problems. Quarantine all new fish
and plants before adding new problems to your pond. Don't start with
feeders. These things and more will help to keep new problems from becoming
a string of disasters. I say this having not done most of these things, but
I sure would do it differently if I had a second chance. Things will be
just so much more controlled and happy for everybody and everything. I
suspect there are some 'fast track' people who could also add their
disasters - but they're no longer ponders. Yes I think the 1000+ rule is
probably overstated.
I have already seen several EXPERIENCED ponders who have broken it. But if
you are soliciting advice and INEXPERIENCED this is probably a very good
rule. Start slowly and someday you will probably figure out how to 'break
the rules' safely in your own pond with your specific variables, or figured
out why you shouldnt. Or if you're like many in this group you'll have a
bigger pond and altogether different issues.

BTW - I dont know a thing about sturgeon. But my guess is, if they are
anything like comets you are on the way to your first three mistakes.
Filter not cylced, they got bugs, etc.

Bill Brister
Austin, Texas




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Few odd Questions Any help appreciated (pond/water couorse building/sturgeon) (UK)
 

Even though there isn't much natural about
our ponds - they are made with liner and filled with city water for the most
part - it is still a good idea to look to Mother Nature sometimes.

Mother Nature provides lots of water for relatively few fish, she lets the fish
find food on their own (no tasty koi kibble dropped from the sky), she does
water changes, she filters with plants, she doesn't freak out over algae,
she encourages predators and ignores the pond for the most part.
Every once in a while she kills off too many fish with a hard winter, sends a
flood to clean things out or fills in the pond with cattails and willows and
starts over someplace else (you can do that with a whole planet to play with).

Mother Nature doesn't run her water through UV (she has the sun at her beck and
call), she hates chemical treatments, she doesn't want to zap her creatures
with shock fences, thinks fish chow tastes nasty and would never think of dying
her ponds...

So Mother Nature has a few hints for us. Not that we'll pay that much
attention. It is too much fun to feed the fish and we love to fuss over our
pets but do keep her in mind everytime you get the urge to get too retentive
about the pond and open a beer, zip some wine or have your morning coffee by
the pond instead.


kathy :-)
A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/"Once upon a pond/A

Few odd Questions Any help appreciated (pond/water couorse building/sturgeon) (UK)
 

wrote in message
...
I would say that ponding is mostly science.
snip
I tend to agree. 1+1 often = 2 when it comes to ponding.

art is when people knowingly bend or break the rules and get away with it.
snip

Unfortunately this is as true as 1+1=2, especially for the porgs that I have
read here on rec.ponds. I think we ALL break the rules at some point, and
for the most part, many of us have gotten away with it.

BV.

Few odd Questions Any help appreciated (pond/water couorse building/sturgeon) (UK)
 

Hi All - There is apparently some sub dynamic of this group that I am
totally unaware of. If someone would care to email me privately I would
appreciate it. I wrote a fairly lengthy (surprise, surprise) 'observation'
and have decided to delete it, because I really, really dont want to offend
anyone or act like I'm right you're wrong. So I will just make 2 quick
comments about this thread. 1) I do believe there is quite an art to
balancing the scientific generalities and facts into your specific pond
parameters. 2) I have rarely seen an instance where a desired result is as
simple as 1+1=2. It is most usually 4 or 5 variables, hoping you weighted
them correctly, hoping you included the correct variables and the closer to
2 the better, but they rarely add up to exactly 2.
Perhaps I should not be commenting at all but I just saw something in
this thread that I dont get. Maybe its something as simple as you vets not
being allowed to say "You pond newbies are just too stupid at first so we
are going to start you off really slowly". I resemble that remark.
Have Fun!
Bill Brister - Austin, Texas
"Benign Vanilla" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
I would say that ponding is mostly science.
snip
I tend to agree. 1+1 often = 2 when it comes to ponding.

art is when people knowingly bend or break the rules and get away with
it.
snip

Unfortunately this is as true as 1+1=2, especially for the porgs that I
have
read here on rec.ponds. I think we ALL break the rules at some point, and
for the most part, many of us have gotten away with it.

BV.

Few odd Questions Any help appreciated (pond/water couorse building/sturgeon) (UK)
 

"Newbie Bill" wrote in message
...
Hi All - There is apparently some sub dynamic of this group that I am
totally unaware of.

Yeah, we're pretty close knit. rec.ponds is one of the few usenet groups
that is not plaqued with BS. Although, we have our moments.

If someone would care to email me privately I would
appreciate it. I wrote a fairly lengthy (surprise, surprise)
'observation'
and have decided to delete it, because I really, really dont want to
offend
anyone or act like I'm right you're wrong.

Where's the fun in that.

So I will just make 2 quick
comments about this thread. 1) I do believe there is quite an art to
balancing the scientific generalities and facts into your specific pond
parameters. 2) I have rarely seen an instance where a desired result is
as
simple as 1+1=2. It is most usually 4 or 5 variables, hoping you weighted
them correctly, hoping you included the correct variables and the closer
to
2 the better, but they rarely add up to exactly 2.

Which was my point. Sometimes 1+1=2 when you follow the rules. But we all
break them and usually end up getting 2, but not necissarily by adding 1 and
1.

Perhaps I should not be commenting at all but I just saw something in
this thread that I dont get. Maybe its something as simple as you vets
not
being allowed to say "You pond newbies are just too stupid at first so we
are going to start you off really slowly". I resemble that remark.
snip

Ponding is not an exact science, as evidenced by the fact that there are no
two ponds alike. No two sets of conditions. On rec.ponds, for the most part,
we offer anecdotal solutions to ponders problems. We are typically careful
not hand down knowledge as gospel, as we know that what works for 1 may not
work for another.

BV.

Few odd Questions Any help appreciated (pond/water couorse building/sturgeon) (UK)
 

"Newbie Bill" wrote in message
...
Hi All - There is apparently some sub dynamic of this group that I am
totally unaware of. If someone would care to email me privately I would
appreciate it. I wrote a fairly lengthy (surprise, surprise)
'observation'
and have decided to delete it, because I really, really dont want to
offend
anyone or act like I'm right you're wrong.

I think you are reading far more into things then there really are. This is
just a big group of helpful people who enjoy making ponds, and sharing their
experiences, tips, n tricks.

No political agendas, no subterfuge, just an occasional ad type post from
some of the online pond supply places, which are pretty useful, actually.

I haven't been a regular here for more then a year though, and that's been
off an on, (we moved), so maybe there's a "secret circle" club I forgot to
join.. ;)


--
Gareee©
Homepage:
http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine.../mainframe.htm
Custom Figures, Wallpapers and more!

Few odd Questions Any help appreciated (pond/water couorse building/sturgeon) (UK)
 

A lot of answers, and experience, depends on the pond.

I have a messy, wildlife type pond. My main goal is to see how many critters I
can attract and have been known to be thrilled to pieces over carnivorous
bladderwort and mayfly larvae.

Some folks have koi ponds. They actually know the names of the various types of
koi and can pronounce them. Koi have been called living jewels and they live up
to their names. Keeping koi is very exacting and watching your water parameters
is so important to keep them healthy and thriving.

Others are more plant oriented. They know the names of their lilies (unlike moi
who knows pink, white and yellow ;-) And they can actually grow
lotus (sigh, another goal I have yet to achieve).
And they can tell you the latin names of all the other pond plants. Keeping
plants healthy and thriving is a different operation too.

Some ponders combine all three. That's a juggling act! And combining all three
is again another specific set of skills.

Some of us like birds in our ponds,
others net the birds out. Some of us wish for
frogs, others buy earplugs. Some of us think snails are neat in the pond,
others prefer them with garlic and butter. Some of us drink beer by the pond,
others are coffee addicts
(raising hand).

We try to stay away from politics... and we usually succeed.
We sure would like you to hang out with us.
Besides we haven't explained PORG to you yet...


kathy :-)
A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/"Once upon a pond/A

Few odd Questions Any help appreciated (pond/water couorse building/sturgeon) (UK)
 

Hi, Everyone has there own opinions and "methods" when it comes to
anything,including ornamental pond husbandry. First thing before I even
started a pond project I already had many years of keeping ornamental fish
in aquariums. I was way ahead of the "game"...then I did research for about
2 years before I even attempted starting my pond project. Other than the
basics of digging...liner(rubber roofing) and filter construction I have
found that my successes has been easy and that pond keeping isn't a big
deal. The pond/ponds I have are pretty much take care of themselves as long
as I do water changes,don't overfeed, don't crowd the fish etc. Everyone is
here to help the "newbie". They just have to glean the info and use what
they may think will work for them ,then tune them to their own ponding
situations. Thanks Mike
"Newbie Bill" wrote in message
...
Hi All - There is apparently some sub dynamic of this group that I am
totally unaware of.

Few odd Questions Any help appreciated (pond/water couorse building/sturgeon) (UK)
 

Hi, Everyone has there own opinions and "methods" when it comes to
anything,including ornamental pond husbandry. First thing before I even
started a pond project I already had many years of keeping ornamental fish
in aquariums. I was way ahead of the "game"...then I did research for about
2 years before I even attempted starting my pond project. Other than the
basics of digging...liner(rubber roofing) and filter construction I have
found that my successes has been easy and that pond keeping isn't a big
deal. The pond/ponds I have are pretty much take care of themselves as long
as I do water changes,don't overfeed, don't crowd the fish etc. Everyone is
here to help the "newbie". They just have to glean the info and use what
they may think will work for them ,then tune them to their own ponding
situations. Thanks Mike
"Newbie Bill" wrote in message
...
Hi All - There is apparently some sub dynamic of this group that I am
totally unaware of.

Few odd Questions Any help appreciated (pond/water couorse building/sturgeon) (UK)
 

"Gareee©" wrote in message
...
snip
I haven't been a regular here for more then a year though, and that's been
off an on, (we moved), so maybe there's a "secret circle" club I forgot
to
join.. ;)
snip

The first rule about rec.ponds, is Don't talk about rec.ponds.

BV.

Few odd Questions Any help appreciated (pond/water couorse building/sturgeon) (UK)
 

Hi again

I've read all the responses, (most don't actually answer my questions, but
ill get to that later..)

It seems many people feel my pond is too small for koi, this is NOT a
problem for me, im quite happy to have other breeds of fish.. However I
will mention that Oasis (pond Product manufacturing company) produce a 223
litre pond Called Koi. that anyone would assume should be big enough for
Koi! (and i know 3 people with one and several Koi within (for several
years.) (6 + years in one case)

Now i have already kept fish and ponds for a long time (although my biggest
pond to date was only about 100 gallons (and was a nature pond (about to be
recreated on a larger scale)) (ok im only in me 30's so some have kept foir
much longer than me). this is where all the fish i already have are coming
from

this is my first onamental pond, and its been 4 years in the planning, im
not some ooh a pond would be nice, and 3 days later its done.. 6 months
later its gone again..

please could someone pass advice on the other questions i posed (expanding
foam to make a fountain base, and the sturgeon (who havent done it
since.. ))

Lost

Few odd Questions Any help appreciated (pond/water couorse building/sturgeon) (UK)
 

On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 10:08:54 -0400, "Benign Vanilla"
wrote:


"Gareee©" wrote in message
...
snip
I haven't been a regular here for more then a year though, and that's been
off an on, (we moved), so maybe there's a "secret circle" club I forgot
to
join.. ;)
snip

The first rule about rec.ponds, is Don't talk about rec.ponds.

The SECOND rules is not talking about the rule about not talking about the
rec.ponds... didn't you get the secret-circle memo, BV???

James, Seattle

Few odd Questions Any help appreciated (pond/water couorse building/sturgeon) (UK)
 

Good Morning Group! Thanks so much for being gentle to the newbie
questioning the thread. I thought for sure someone was going to give me the
ol "Jane you ignorant slut." line (SNL):) Lest there be any question I
think this group is just flat out terrific, both for the knowledge gap they
try to fill on a constant basis and the people in general. I am a goofball
but it pleases me to think in some very small way I am a part of it. Yes,
in trying to research specific subjects I have come upon several groups that
were just innundated with immature banter. Here the banter seems most often
to be whether you drop that WH into the pond with your left hand or right
and what temperature the beer in the other hand should be:) I have met
several local ponders and they have been good people. My pond is filled
almost exclusively with plants that they have thinned/divided. Several have
droped by to see 'my problem' first hand. But the local message board often
is not very helpful, because most of the 'pros' there often will not reply.
I think they dont want to end each message by saying 'this is what worked
for me, you may have to modify it somewhat for your pond' - or - 'I dont
know but my guess would be....' I probably was just overreacting to a
misinterpreted inference that if you do such and such you WILL get this
result. My experience has been rarely is there a clear cut, cant miss
solution. But there are some clear cut if you do such and such you will
kill your fish rules. It is frustrating because every time a fish dies I
feel VERY badly it was probably at the hands of my ignorance, and yet I am
trying so hard to do good.
You guys are great! Thank you, thank you, thank you.............
Isle b'bac
Bill Brister - Austin, Texas

ps Inquiring minds have wondered what this secret handshake porgies thing
is:)


"Ka30P" wrote in message
...

A lot of answers, and experience, depends on the pond.

I have a messy, wildlife type pond. My main goal is to see how many
critters I
can attract and have been known to be thrilled to pieces over carnivorous
bladderwort and mayfly larvae.

Some folks have koi ponds. They actually know the names of the various
types of
koi and can pronounce them. Koi have been called living jewels and they
live up
to their names. Keeping koi is very exacting and watching your water
parameters
is so important to keep them healthy and thriving.

Others are more plant oriented. They know the names of their lilies
(unlike moi
who knows pink, white and yellow ;-) And they can actually grow
lotus (sigh, another goal I have yet to achieve).
And they can tell you the latin names of all the other pond plants.
Keeping
plants healthy and thriving is a different operation too.

Some ponders combine all three. That's a juggling act! And combining all
three
is again another specific set of skills.

Some of us like birds in our ponds,
others net the birds out. Some of us wish for
frogs, others buy earplugs. Some of us think snails are neat in the pond,
others prefer them with garlic and butter. Some of us drink beer by the
pond,
others are coffee addicts
(raising hand).

We try to stay away from politics... and we usually succeed.
We sure would like you to hang out with us.
Besides we haven't explained PORG to you yet...


kathy :-)
A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/"Once upon a pond/A

Few odd Questions Any help appreciated (pond/water couorse building/sturgeon) (UK)
 

"Newbie Bill" wrote in message
...
Hi All - There is apparently some sub dynamic of this
group that I am
totally unaware of.

No more than in any other newsgroup I've
ever been in. :)

[snips ahoy]

Perhaps I should not be commenting at all but I just
saw something in
this thread that I dont get. Maybe its something as
simple as you vets not
being allowed to say "You pond newbies are just too stupid
at first so we
are going to start you off really slowly". I resemble
that remark.

I've seen the same thing in the aquaria newsgroup
I frequent. Response to newbie posts tend to fall into
one of three broad categories:

1) Helpful but very very brief - "do water tests"

2) helpful with some explanation - "do water tests
like kh, pH, nitrates, so we can advise you better"

3) helpful with a chemistry degree - "do water
tests because if zf3 is higher than gl15 then
tmn0004 will be reduced signicantly below the
optimal j3e6p4 level for plants unless you stock
low light plants then the optimal p56sub8 level
will be *increased* unless your water has
3ppx salt..."

For newbies (I consider myself barely above
that level), generally the first two types of
explanation are most useful. I now know
enough about aquaria (and ponds) to prefer
category 2 explanations, but don't have the
patience (or education) to slog through most
of the category 3 explanations, although I
recognize their helpfulness to many.

But that's what some of the regulars here
were referring to, IMO. No secret agenda,
as someone else pointed out, just an awareness
that we all have different experiences and
different (current) knowledge levels and what
might be useful to you might be mind bogglingly
obscure or insulting baby talk to someone else.

Gail
near San Antonio TX

Few odd Questions Any help appreciated (pond/water couorse building/sturgeon) (UK)
 

"Ka30P" wrote

Snips to clarification points:

Some of us think snails are neat in the pond,
others prefer them with garlic and butter.

Um - both work for me. Although I'm not
sure I would eat pond or aquarium snails...

Some of us drink beer by the pond,
others are coffee addicts
(raising hand).

Raising both hands since I do both. g

Gail

Few odd Questions Any help appreciated (pond/water couorse building/sturgeon) (UK)
 

Newbie Bill wrote ps Inquiring minds have wondered what this secret handshake
porgies thing
is:)

Ah, ;-) a chance to post the PORG dogma!


You are a PORG,
or more accurately, you have been porged.
Rec.ponders have been tasked to go out and
assimilate lawns into ponds. Resistance is futile.
(If you are a Star Trek, Next Generation fan
you'll recognize we unashamedly ripped off the
term Borg (the half machine, half human beings
who absorb any race they come across into the
Borg Collective) and assimilated it unto our own selves.)
Your mission, and you must accept it (remember
resistance is futile), is to go forth and assimilate
your friends' and neighbors' lawns into ponds.
This is the PORG motto, creed, agenda, dogma, rules of the road, law, platform
and way of life.
The secret handshake... the memo got lost with the German Shepherd sized
Bullfrog whose orgins are now lost in the mists of rec.ponds time.



kathy :-)
A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/"Once upon a pond/A

Few odd Questions Any help appreciated (pond/water couorsebuilding/sturgeon) (UK)
 

Ooooh, that's good. Also a pretty good, albeit odd concept, mvie.

Joe

On 6/16/04 7:08 AM, "Benign Vanilla" wrote:


"Gareee©" wrote in message
...
snip
I haven't been a regular here for more then a year though, and that's been
off an on, (we moved), so maybe there's a "secret circle" club I forgot
to
join.. ;)
snip

The first rule about rec.ponds, is Don't talk about rec.ponds.

BV.





-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

Few odd Questions Any help appreciated (pond/water couorsebuilding/sturgeon) (UK)
 

One of the first things I noticed about 'the group' was an absence of
levity. Most of you must have taken the day off:)
Bill

"joe" wrote in message
...
Ooooh, that's good. Also a pretty good, albeit odd concept, mvie.

Joe

On 6/16/04 7:08 AM, "Benign Vanilla" wrote:


"Gareee©" wrote in message
...
snip
I haven't been a regular here for more then a year though, and that's
been
off an on, (we moved), so maybe there's a "secret circle" club I
forgot
to
join.. ;)
snip

The first rule about rec.ponds, is Don't talk about rec.ponds.

BV.





-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

Few odd Questions Any help appreciated (pond/water couorsebuilding/sturgeon) (UK)
 

Bill, we've backed off on BV for a while after the great pond dying experiment.
This blue water incident coming so closely on the heels of the orange water
drama, well, sometimes you just have to give him time to recover.



Bill wrote One of the first things I noticed about 'the group' was an absence
of
levity. Most of you must have taken the day off:)
kathy :-)
A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/"Once upon a pond/A

Few odd Questions Any help appreciated (pond/water couorse building/sturgeon) (UK)
 

Ahah - That was probably the feeling I couldnt put my finger on in reading
the thread. I have never been assimilated before. Believe me I am. I have
already gotten several wide eyed looks of astonishment when I have voice my
vision of someday having a bigger or more ponds, bogs etc. BTW - 'swentlop'
or did everyone not get that message.
Bill


"Ka30P" wrote in message
...
Newbie Bill wrote ps Inquiring minds have wondered what this secret
handshake
porgies thing
is:)

Ah, ;-) a chance to post the PORG dogma!


You are a PORG,
or more accurately, you have been porged.
Rec.ponders have been tasked to go out and
assimilate lawns into ponds. Resistance is futile.
(If you are a Star Trek, Next Generation fan
you'll recognize we unashamedly ripped off the
term Borg (the half machine, half human beings
who absorb any race they come across into the
Borg Collective) and assimilated it unto our own selves.)
Your mission, and you must accept it (remember
resistance is futile), is to go forth and assimilate
your friends' and neighbors' lawns into ponds.
This is the PORG motto, creed, agenda, dogma, rules of the road, law,
platform
and way of life.
The secret handshake... the memo got lost with the German Shepherd sized
Bullfrog whose orgins are now lost in the mists of rec.ponds time.



kathy :-)
A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/"Once upon a pond/A

Few odd Questions Any help appreciated (pond/water couorsebuilding/sturgeon) (UK)
 

Tooooooo funny. I must seriously confess I did not read any of those posts.
I have had 2 fish die in the last 6 weeks and 5 since I started. I
definitely didnt want to know anything about dying experiments. What can I
say - English was never my strongest subject.
Bill

"Ka30P" wrote in message
...
Bill, we've backed off on BV for a while after the great pond dying
experiment.
This blue water incident coming so closely on the heels of the orange
water
drama, well, sometimes you just have to give him time to recover.



Bill wrote One of the first things I noticed about 'the group' was an
absence
of
levity. Most of you must have taken the day off:)
kathy :-)
A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/"Once upon a pond/A

Few odd Questions Any help appreciated (pond/water couorsebuilding/sturgeon) (UK)
 

"Ka30P" wrote in message
...
Bill, we've backed off on BV for a while after the great pond dying
experiment.
This blue water incident coming so closely on the heels of the orange
water
snip

BTW, in next year's shareholders documents you will see a motion to rename
Shareholders Pond to Rainbow Pond, so don't be suprised and shocked when you
see it.

BV.

Few odd Questions Any help appreciated (pond/water couorse building/sturgeon)(UK)
 

Ka30P wrote:

Some of us like birds in our ponds,
others net the birds out. Some of us wish for
frogs, others buy earplugs. Some of us think snails are neat in the pond,
others prefer them with garlic and butter. Some of us drink beer by the pond,
others are coffee addicts
(raising hand).

Thank you Kathy. Well put. *smile* I'm in the "coffee by the pond,
absolutely thrilled with anything willing to take up residence, trying
to keep it as natural as an artificial pond can get crowd, thrilled to
find the birds drinking out of it, spent an hour on Saturday watching a
dragonfly emerge from it's larval state, and looking for some native
salamanders or newts I can purchase for my pond". Looking around, I
think I'm alone now and not the only one in her or his own group. *grin*

Susan
shsimko[@]duke[.]edu

Few odd Questions Any help appreciated (pond/water couorse building/sturgeon)
 

Hi Susan,
to keep it as natural as an artificial pond can get
When the watergardening labs and I go walking along the river we carry along
plastic bags.
Now this is for doggy business that they leave along the path but also for neat
stuff we find along the way. We bring home aquatic weeds left along the shore
line, interesting grass seeds, rocks (especially those with rings around them),
aquatic bugs if we can catch them, animal skulls and feathers for zoology
daughter, driftwood - most of it goes in or by the ponds.



kathy :-)
A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/"Once upon a pond/A

Few odd Questions Any help appreciated (pond/water couorse building/sturgeon) (UK)
 

welcome to the habit susan. i live directly in center of city of warwick but
step behind my fence and find yourself in a acre of natures beauty.i just
sitting out watching world go by
"Susan H. Simko" wrote in message
...
Ka30P wrote:

Some of us like birds in our ponds,
others net the birds out. Some of us wish for
frogs, others buy earplugs. Some of us think snails are neat in the
pond,
others prefer them with garlic and butter. Some of us drink beer by the
pond,
others are coffee addicts
(raising hand).

Thank you Kathy. Well put. *smile* I'm in the "coffee by the pond,
absolutely thrilled with anything willing to take up residence, trying
to keep it as natural as an artificial pond can get crowd, thrilled to
find the birds drinking out of it, spent an hour on Saturday watching a
dragonfly emerge from it's larval state, and looking for some native
salamanders or newts I can purchase for my pond". Looking around, I
think I'm alone now and not the only one in her or his own group. *grin*

Susan
shsimko[@]duke[.]edu

Few odd Questions Any help appreciated (pond/water couorse building/sturgeon) (UK)
 

Ive had water in my 3600gal for over 4 months. Its had 100 fingerling
bluegill perch and 200~300 fathead minnows for 2 months. The minnow
death rate stableized last week. Up until then i lost minnows everyday
about 75 to 100 overall due to unaged water. It appears that waiting
until the water has had at least 1 algea bloom before stocking is good
advice. The 2 2' sturgeons you have will be lucky to make it to August
in a brand new pond. You may want to leave them in the bath for awhile
they would be Ok because Ive seen that size (1) in a 55gal aquarium
Oh yeah Ive only lost 2 bluegills but thats because their the
toughest fish around.
On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 16:37:47 +0100, "Lostin1999"
wrote:

Hi again

I've read all the responses, (most don't actually answer my questions, but
ill get to that later..)

It seems many people feel my pond is too small for koi, this is NOT a
problem for me, im quite happy to have other breeds of fish.. However I
will mention that Oasis (pond Product manufacturing company) produce a 223
litre pond Called Koi. that anyone would assume should be big enough for
Koi! (and i know 3 people with one and several Koi within (for several
years.) (6 + years in one case)

Now i have already kept fish and ponds for a long time (although my biggest
pond to date was only about 100 gallons (and was a nature pond (about to be
recreated on a larger scale)) (ok im only in me 30's so some have kept foir
much longer than me). this is where all the fish i already have are coming
from

this is my first onamental pond, and its been 4 years in the planning, im
not some ooh a pond would be nice, and 3 days later its done.. 6 months
later its gone again..

please could someone pass advice on the other questions i posed (expanding
foam to make a fountain base, and the sturgeon (who havent done it
since.. ))

Lost

Few odd Questions Any help appreciated (pond/water couorse building/sturgeon) (UK)
 

"Susan H. Simko" wrote in message
...
Ka30P wrote:

Some of us like birds in our ponds,
others net the birds out. Some of us wish for
frogs, others buy earplugs. Some of us think snails are neat in the
pond,
others prefer them with garlic and butter. Some of us drink beer by the
pond,
others are coffee addicts
(raising hand).

Thank you Kathy. Well put. *smile* I'm in the "coffee by the pond,
absolutely thrilled with anything willing to take up residence, trying
to keep it as natural as an artificial pond can get crowd, thrilled to
find the birds drinking out of it, spent an hour on Saturday watching a
dragonfly emerge from it's larval state, and looking for some native
salamanders or newts I can purchase for my pond". Looking around, I
think I'm alone now and not the only one in her or his own group. *grin*

No way you are alone! That is awesome. I am completely amazed when new
critters show up at the pond. I even built some shallows to help them get
in.

BV.

Few odd Questions Any help appreciated (pond/water couorse building/sturgeon) (UK)
 

Falcor wrote PORG, ??? please elaborate

Be glad to ;-)
You are a Porg,
or more accurately, you have been porged.
Rec.ponders have been tasked to go out and
assimilate lawns into ponds. Resistance is futile.
(If you are a Star Trek, Next Generation fan
you'll recognize we unashamedly ripped off the
term Borg (the half machine, half human beings
who absorb any race they come across into the
Borg Collective) and assimilated it unto our own selves.)
Your mission, and you must accept it (remember
resistance is futile), is to go forth and assimilate
your friends' and neighbors' lawns into ponds.



kathy :-)
A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/"Once upon a pond/A