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Clown Loaches flashing
Hi all I need some advise. Today my Clown Loaches and a few others began
flashing like crazy. I have had them for a year and they have been very healthy once I got them past the ich. I checked the water, NH3/NO2 is at zero pH is stable at 7.6 and temperature is also stable at 75. I do ~ 40% water changes weekly with gravel vac and filter cleaning. I took a few slime coat swabs and checked them under the microscope No signs of parasites of any kind were detected. I have added salt at about 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons incase it is fungus or some other sort of parasite I missed. Anyhow I am open to suggestions? Tank 55 gal 1 year old filter 1 regent 40-60 1 penguin 330 biowheel 2 airstones 1 300 watt ML Neptune heater population: 4 clown loaches 3 dojo loaches 6 platies\ 3 sword tails 6 mollies 3 medium Opaline gouramis 3 small pearl gourmis 1 dwarf gourami 8 black skirt tetras 1 Pl@co |
BigBadGourami wrote:
I am open to suggestions? 75F is a bit cold for clown loaches, they prefer temperatures closer to 80F. Also, supposedly, they do not like salt in the water since they come from rain-fed streams. -- Victor M. Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM) Send your spam he Email me he |
"BigBadGourami" sschoenfeld[remove wrote in
message news:zpIBd.58283$k25.25584@attbi_s53... Hi all I need some advise. Today my Clown Loaches and a few others began flashing like crazy. I have had them for a year and they have been very healthy once I got them past the ich. I checked the water, NH3/NO2 is at zero pH is stable at 7.6 and temperature is also stable at 75. I do ~ 40% water changes weekly with gravel vac and filter cleaning. I took a few slime coat swabs and checked them under the microscope No signs of parasites of any kind were detected. I have added salt at about 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons incase it is fungus or some other sort of parasite I missed. Anyhow I am open to suggestions? Tank 55 gal 1 year old filter 1 regent 40-60 1 penguin 330 biowheel 2 airstones 1 300 watt ML Neptune heater population: 4 clown loaches 3 dojo loaches 6 platies\ 3 sword tails 6 mollies 3 medium Opaline gouramis 3 small pearl gourmis 1 dwarf gourami 8 black skirt tetras 1 Pl@co Dose with Melafix. Had you added anything to that tank? -- www.NetMax.tk |
Subject: Clown Loaches flashing
From: "NetMax" Date: 1/1/2005 10:04 P.M. Central Standard Time Message-id: "BigBadGourami" sschoenfeld[remove wrote in message news:zpIBd.58283$k25.25584@attbi_s53... Hi all I need some advise. Today my Clown Loaches and a few others began flashing like crazy. I have had them for a year and they have been very healthy once I got them past the ich. I checked the water, NH3/NO2 is at zero pH is stable at 7.6 and temperature is also stable at 75. I do ~ 40% water changes weekly with gravel vac and filter cleaning. I took a few slime coat swabs and checked them under the microscope No signs of parasites of any kind were detected. I have added salt at about 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons incase it is fungus or some other sort of parasite I missed. Anyhow I am open to suggestions? Tank 55 gal 1 year old filter 1 regent 40-60 1 penguin 330 biowheel 2 airstones 1 300 watt ML Neptune heater population: 4 clown loaches 3 dojo loaches 6 platies\ 3 sword tails 6 mollies 3 medium Opaline gouramis 3 small pearl gourmis 1 dwarf gourami 8 black skirt tetras 1 Pl@co Dose with Melafix. Had you added anything to that tank? -- www.NetMax.tk I'm having the same kind trouble all of a sudden. However, my Clowns are scratching, as well as other tank mates too. However, no Ich, no outward symptom at all besides the scratching off dechor or gravel. The only new things: Pygmy Cories...quarantined 2 weeks..yes I know things can get past that, but they showed no signs of scratching until long after of being in the main tank. That batch were split up and put into 3 tanks. (2) 3g tanks and the rest in the 75g. Only the ones in the 75g have this scratching behavior. I'm thinking parasites of course....but wouldn't all the rest of my fish have gotten it? My thoughts of possible contamination: Pygmies brought something in..but then why don't the rest of the tanks have this problem. New frozen Brine Shrimp. It's possible a parasite egg got into the tank from the food, but they all get fed this for one of their two feedings. Again...wouldn't all the tanks have it then. I don't know what's wrong with them and if I don't know.....then I don't know what to trreat with. These Clowns are good sized, robust and the friendliest Clowns I have ever had. One of them in particular I am so attached to that I really can't bare the thought of losing him. So...in the past I have treated other Clowns that I've had with half dose Quick Cure...(Ich), but they died. Either by med or the Ich..not sure which. I have (last batch of Clowns before these guys had Ich bad when bought), they were treated with RidIch, as per suggestion for Clowns with Ich...they too died. The med didn't affact the Ich at all. After those Clowns died, did a water change and dosed with Q.C. and Ich was gone right away. Quick Cure is a fantastic med....however, harsh. I know I need to do something in the tank, but am too darned scared to treat the tank because of the Clowns....Yet if I take them out while treating the tank with Q.C., what the heck do I treat the Clowns with? I don't have a clue as to what I'd be treating, but can see they need some help. What to do??? Knowing my past with treating Clowns I am so hesitant to try anything. |
Well today they seem less itchy and still very healthy. I probably
begin decreasing the salt concentration with water changes soon. Perhaps it was either a fungus or some sort of parasite that the salt killed? I am pretty sure it isn't ich as I eradicated it a while back from the tank and it hasn't been back since. BTW I use aquarisol high heat and NaCl not Malachite Green/Formalin for ich. Worked better for me and I never lost a fish because of it (less harsh). Thanks for the advise |
TYNK 7 wrote:
Knowing my past with treating Clowns I am so hesitant to try anything. Most of the clown loach owners I know seem to believe that the old-formula maracide (still available in Canada, order via bigals.com) is the best ich medicine for clowns and other loaches. I have a lifetime supply at hand, just in case, but I haven't had any problems in the past 2 years or so. -- Victor M. Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM) Send your spam he Email me he |
"TYNK 7" wrote in message
... Subject: Clown Loaches flashing From: "NetMax" Date: 1/1/2005 10:04 P.M. Central Standard Time Message-id: "BigBadGourami" sschoenfeld[remove wrote in message news:zpIBd.58283$k25.25584@attbi_s53... Hi all I need some advise. Today my Clown Loaches and a few others began flashing like crazy. I have had them for a year and they have been very healthy once I got them past the ich. I checked the water, NH3/NO2 is at zero pH is stable at 7.6 and temperature is also stable at 75. I do ~ 40% water changes weekly with gravel vac and filter cleaning. I took a few slime coat swabs and checked them under the microscope No signs of parasites of any kind were detected. I have added salt at about 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons incase it is fungus or some other sort of parasite I missed. Anyhow I am open to suggestions? Tank 55 gal 1 year old filter 1 regent 40-60 1 penguin 330 biowheel 2 airstones 1 300 watt ML Neptune heater population: 4 clown loaches 3 dojo loaches 6 platies\ 3 sword tails 6 mollies 3 medium Opaline gouramis 3 small pearl gourmis 1 dwarf gourami 8 black skirt tetras 1 Pl@co Dose with Melafix. Had you added anything to that tank? -- www.NetMax.tk I'm having the same kind trouble all of a sudden. However, my Clowns are scratching, as well as other tank mates too. However, no Ich, no outward symptom at all besides the scratching off dechor or gravel. The only new things: Pygmy Cories...quarantined 2 weeks..yes I know things can get past that, but they showed no signs of scratching until long after of being in the main tank. That batch were split up and put into 3 tanks. (2) 3g tanks and the rest in the 75g. Only the ones in the 75g have this scratching behavior. I'm thinking parasites of course....but wouldn't all the rest of my fish have gotten it? My thoughts of possible contamination: Pygmies brought something in..but then why don't the rest of the tanks have this problem. New frozen Brine Shrimp. It's possible a parasite egg got into the tank from the food, but they all get fed this for one of their two feedings. Again...wouldn't all the tanks have it then. I don't know what's wrong with them and if I don't know.....then I don't know what to trreat with. These Clowns are good sized, robust and the friendliest Clowns I have ever had. One of them in particular I am so attached to that I really can't bare the thought of losing him. So...in the past I have treated other Clowns that I've had with half dose Quick Cure...(Ich), but they died. Either by med or the Ich..not sure which. I have (last batch of Clowns before these guys had Ich bad when bought), they were treated with RidIch, as per suggestion for Clowns with Ich...they too died. The med didn't affact the Ich at all. After those Clowns died, did a water change and dosed with Q.C. and Ich was gone right away. Quick Cure is a fantastic med....however, harsh. I know I need to do something in the tank, but am too darned scared to treat the tank because of the Clowns....Yet if I take them out while treating the tank with Q.C., what the heck do I treat the Clowns with? I don't have a clue as to what I'd be treating, but can see they need some help. What to do??? Knowing my past with treating Clowns I am so hesitant to try anything. I haven't had the best luck with Clowns either (having purchased and sold over a 1,000 of them when I was in the trade). It got to the point where every shipment (between 100 and 200 juveniles) went straight into a holding tank (off-sale) where I would fatten them up with a variety of foods, including frozen bloodworms. My general purpose light-weight treatment was a combination of leaf litter (Terbang leaves and lowered the lighting), aggressive water changes, higher than normal filter flow, Melafix, Aquarisol & raising the heat a bit (as BigBadGourami already mentioned). Not including the first 2-3 days of transport losses, I got reasonably good at keeping the rest alive & well. Then I got more ambitious and tried to set up a 100g species tank of Clowns, so I brought in 4, 5 and 6" Clowns. I lost them all while pouring through fish disease books trying to ID the pathogen(s), so my confidence level with treating these fish is nil. -- www.NetMax.tk |
I haven't had the best luck with Clowns either (having purchased and sold over a 1,000 of them when I was in the trade). It got to the point where every shipment (between 100 and 200 juveniles) went straight into a holding tank (off-sale) where I would fatten them up with a variety of foods, including frozen bloodworms. My general purpose light-weight treatment was a combination of leaf litter (Terbang leaves and lowered the lighting), aggressive water changes, higher than normal filter flow, Melafix, Aquarisol & raising the heat a bit (as BigBadGourami already mentioned). Not including the first 2-3 days of transport losses, I got reasonably good at keeping the rest alive & well. Then I got more ambitious and tried to set up a 100g species tank of Clowns, so I brought in 4, 5 and 6" Clowns. I lost them all while pouring through fish disease books trying to ID the pathogen(s), so my confidence level with treating these fish is nil. I get all my fish by overnight mail. Mostly, all are well, but I did get a shipment of 6 Clown Loaches with Ich. Unfortunately, I only had one tank at the time, a 75 gallon tank. I had to order medication and wait for delivery. Only 2 responded to the treatment, so I finally destroyed the sick ones. I noted to myself that none of the other 50 fish in the tank picked up the Ich. I now have 11 CLs and it has been over a year since the episode with ich. dick |
Dick,
Since you are more familiar with clown loaches than me maybe you can answer my question. I just bought two clowns on Saturday (my first ones ever). I put them in my quarantine tank (it is very small, only 2 gallons). Since then they have been hiding under the bubbler bar and haven't came out yet. They are both hiding under there together upside down. Are clown loaches notorious for hiding, or do you think it's because they are new, or are they sick? They came from Petsmart. Thanks, Sarah "Dick" wrote in message ... I haven't had the best luck with Clowns either (having purchased and sold over a 1,000 of them when I was in the trade). It got to the point where every shipment (between 100 and 200 juveniles) went straight into a holding tank (off-sale) where I would fatten them up with a variety of foods, including frozen bloodworms. |
"Sarah Navarro" wrote in message
ink.net... Dick, Since you are more familiar with clown loaches than me maybe you can answer my question. I just bought two clowns on Saturday (my first ones ever). I put them in my quarantine tank (it is very small, only 2 gallons). Since then they have been hiding under the bubbler bar and haven't came out yet. They are both hiding under there together upside down. Are clown loaches notorious for hiding, or do you think it's because they are new, or are they sick? They came from Petsmart. Thanks, Sarah Clown loaches will hide most of the time until they become comfortable in their new home. Once they realize it is safe they will start venturing out and swimming around the tank together. And don't be alarmed if you see them laying on their sides in the tank. It may look like they are dying, but they aren't. They are just resting. I would recommend at least one or two more also. They like to be kept in groups. -- Margolis http://web.archive.org/web/200302152...qs/AGQ2FAQ.htm http://www.unrealtower.org/faq |
On 2005-01-03, Margolis wrote:
Clown loaches will hide most of the time until they become comfortable in their new home. Once they realize it is safe they will start venturing out and swimming around the tank together. And don't be alarmed if you see them laying on their sides in the tank. It may look like they are dying, but they aren't. They are just resting. I would recommend at least one or two more also. They like to be kept in groups. Is it common for this problem to continue for longer? I had a clown loach hide just as you describe. I figured that a few days adjustment was all he or she needed. Unfortuantely the fish didn't make it - found dead a few days later. My guess was starvation - in about two weeks, I never saw this poor guy or gal eat a single bite. I'm not biologist, but the fish had no signs of ich, dropsy, pop-eye, bacterial infection, etc. No other fish were ill. Does anything help them get adjusted more quickly? -- Ross Vandegrift "The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell." --St. Augustine, De Genesi ad Litteram, Book II, xviii, 37 |
"Ross Vandegrift" wrote in message
... Is it common for this problem to continue for longer? I had a clown loach hide just as you describe. I figured that a few days adjustment was all he or she needed. Unfortuantely the fish didn't make it - found dead a few days later. My guess was starvation - in about two weeks, I never saw this poor guy or gal eat a single bite. I'm not biologist, but the fish had no signs of ich, dropsy, pop-eye, bacterial infection, etc. No other fish were ill. Does anything help them get adjusted more quickly? -- Ross Vandegrift was he by himself? If so, then that could be the reason. They are one of the most sociable fishes there are and really have to have the company of others to thrive. If you had others and only he didn't come out then it could have been any of a number of problems. But I have never had problems with loaches staying hidden. but I have always had a minimum of 4 together at a time. -- Margolis http://web.archive.org/web/200302152...qs/AGQ2FAQ.htm http://www.unrealtower.org/faq |
On 2005-01-03, Margolis wrote:
was he by himself? If so, then that could be the reason. They are one of the most sociable fishes there are and really have to have the company of others to thrive. If you had others and only he didn't come out then it could have been any of a number of problems. But I have never had problems with loaches staying hidden. but I have always had a minimum of 4 together at a time. Nope - I had three in the tank. The other two had tons of fun swimming about and ate like pigs ::-) -- Ross Vandegrift "The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell." --St. Augustine, De Genesi ad Litteram, Book II, xviii, 37 |
"I was going go get more than two, but since they are going into a ten gallon tank with other fish and some big snails, I didn't want to overcrowd them. I will be getting another tank soon (number 11), I will move some fish out and get some more then. I got them to eat the snails, but they are awfully cute when they swim with their little flipper fins.Thanks for the advice. I will get them some more friends as soon as my other tank arrives and gets cycled. Sarah Clown loaches will hide most of the time until they become comfortable in their new home. Once they realize it is safe they will start venturing out and swimming around the tank together. And don't be alarmed if you see them laying on their sides in the tank. It may look like they are dying, but they aren't. They are just resting. I would recommend at least one or two more also. They like to be kept in groups. |
On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 13:48:07 GMT, "Sarah Navarro"
wrote: Dick, Since you are more familiar with clown loaches than me maybe you can answer my question. I just bought two clowns on Saturday (my first ones ever). I put them in my quarantine tank (it is very small, only 2 gallons). Since then they have been hiding under the bubbler bar and haven't came out yet. They are both hiding under there together upside down. Are clown loaches notorious for hiding, or do you think it's because they are new, or are they sick? They came from Petsmart. Thanks, Sarah Hiding is normal, especially together. I have 2 in a 10 gallon tank. They spend much of the day hiding in an ornament. They come out to eat, but there they are different, one comes out right away whereas the second if most cautious and would dive back to the ornament if it saw me move. The shy one is slowly becoming more brave. Don't be surprised if you find them "dead." Well, not really, they have a great talent for looking dead. That is not to say they don't get ill. Ich is common for CLs. New fish are always a worry. We look so carefully to see what might be wrong. The 2 gallon tank doesn't help. It is very small for the clowns. Since you only mention the bubbler as their hiding place, I wonder if you have plants or an ornamental cave in the tank. My quarantine tank is 10 gallons and has lots of plants weighted to the bottom as the tank has no gravel. You can make a cave from rocks. Don't be surprised if they dig a cave under the bubbler if you have gravel in the tank. I hope your clowns are well so you can enjoy them as I enjoy mine. dick "Dick" wrote in message .. . I haven't had the best luck with Clowns either (having purchased and sold over a 1,000 of them when I was in the trade). It got to the point where every shipment (between 100 and 200 juveniles) went straight into a holding tank (off-sale) where I would fatten them up with a variety of foods, including frozen bloodworms. |
On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 00:56:15 GMT, "Sarah Navarro"
wrote: "I was going go get more than two, but since they are going into a ten gallon tank with other fish and some big snails, I didn't want to overcrowd them. I will be getting another tank soon (number 11), I will move some fish out and get some more then. I got them to eat the snails, but they are awfully cute when they swim with their little flipper fins.Thanks for the advice. I will get them some more friends as soon as my other tank arrives and gets cycled. Sarah Clown loaches will hide most of the time until they become comfortable in their new home. Once they realize it is safe they will start venturing out and swimming around the tank together. And don't be alarmed if you see them laying on their sides in the tank. It may look like they are dying, but they aren't. They are just resting. I would recommend at least one or two more also. They like to be kept in groups. I had a runt CL that was alone in a 10 gallon tank, no other CLs that is. He hid and didn't eat. I moved him to a 10 gallon quarantine tank that I kept with a few fish in it. For some reason he was happy there. Trouble started when I moved him back to the other 10 gallon tank for snail control. He didn't eat and I figured he was eating snails, but he wasn't. I have no idea why he thrived in the Q tank and not the other. I sure was sorry when he died. I have 2 Clowns in another 10 gallon tank. They are tight buddies and seem quite content. I thought I might have to move them to one of my larger community tanks if they grew too large for the 10. After over a year and no noticeable growth, I believe they will stay in the 10. In the 29 and 75 gallon tank I have much larger quantities of CLs. I can't see any difference because of the larger number. I see one off to itself as much as I see two or more together. During the first 6 months there was much more closeness. I recall the 7 sleeping head to tail around an Annubia. This seemed to be "their" place for a couple of weeks. Then there was a period when they would swim close together. Now they are just as apt to swarm with other species in the tank as with each other. They really changed in the last year. There are only 3 in the 29 gallon tank and they are much more chummy although one takes off alone quite often. dick |
"Dick" wrote in message
... On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 00:56:15 GMT, "Sarah Navarro" I have 2 Clowns in another 10 gallon tank. They are tight buddies and seem quite content. I thought I might have to move them to one of my larger community tanks if they grew too large for the 10. After over a year and no noticeable growth, I believe they will stay in the 10. If they are eating they will grow. As long as the water conditions aren't so bad that it keeps them sick and prevents growth. Clown loaches are slow growers, but they will eventually make it to a foot long unless they die. -- Margolis http://web.archive.org/web/200302152...qs/AGQ2FAQ.htm http://www.unrealtower.org/faq |
Margolis wrote:
so bad that it keeps them sick and prevents growth. Clown loaches are slow growers, but they will eventually make it to a foot long unless they die. It depends on diet and genetics. One of my CL grew from a 1.5" juvenile to a 6" mastodont in less than a year. His siblings range from 3 to 4 inches for the most part. -- Victor M. Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM) Send your spam he Email me he |
Subject: Clown Loaches flashing
From: "Margolis" Date: 1/3/2005 9:11 A.M. Central Standard Time Message-id: "Sarah Navarro" wrote in message link.net... Dick, Since you are more familiar with clown loaches than me maybe you can answer my question. I just bought two clowns on Saturday (my first ones ever). I put them in my quarantine tank (it is very small, only 2 gallons). Since then they have been hiding under the bubbler bar and haven't came out yet. They are both hiding under there together upside down. Are clown loaches notorious for hiding, or do you think it's because they are new, or are they sick? They came from Petsmart. Thanks, Sarah Clown loaches will hide most of the time until they become comfortable in their new home. Once they realize it is safe they will start venturing out and swimming around the tank together. And don't be alarmed if you see them laying on their sides in the tank. It may look like they are dying, but they aren't. They are just resting. I would recommend at least one or two more also. They like to be kept in groups. Yes! "Margolis" is right on about those silly Clowns messing with your head. You walk by the tank only to see your lovely Clown, upside down and with a curved body as if dead and rigid.....just long enough for you to go OH NO..and then they flip over and swim off going HA HA, Gotcha again! This my fellow fish friend will never stop. = )~ The 2 that I have now were SO shy at first. One just all of a sudden figured ok, I'm safe and he's been a ham ever since. The second is still the "shyer" (I don't know if that's a word) of the two, but now comes out and begs for food as much as Jauque does, but still hangs behind him. Both Jauque and Claude stick their heads above the water's surface trying to snatch some Bloodworms before the others do. Claude played "dead" so good yesterday that after failing to get it to move, I stuck the end of my algae scrubber stick down to upturn the cave Claude was upside down in and as soon as I got my arm all wet he/she flips over and swims off. Little chit! |
NetMax wrote: "BigBadGourami" sschoenfeld[remove wrote in message news:zpIBd.58283$k25.25584@attbi_s53... Hi all I need some advise. Today my Clown Loaches and a few others began flashing like crazy. I have had them for a year and they have been very healthy once I got them past the ich. I checked the water, NH3/NO2 is at zero pH is stable at 7.6 and temperature is also stable at 75. I do ~ 40% water changes weekly with gravel vac and filter cleaning. I took a few slime coat swabs and checked them under the microscope No signs of parasites of any kind were detected. I have added salt at about 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons incase it is fungus or some other sort of parasite I missed. Anyhow I am open to suggestions? Tank 55 gal 1 year old filter 1 regent 40-60 1 penguin 330 biowheel 2 airstones 1 300 watt ML Neptune heater population: 4 clown loaches 3 dojo loaches 6 platies\ 3 sword tails 6 mollies 3 medium Opaline gouramis 3 small pearl gourmis 1 dwarf gourami 8 black skirt tetras 1 Pl@co Dose with Melafix. Had you added anything to that tank? I'm wondering whether there is a surefire way of treating Clowns without the need of any medications? I thinking about setting up a bare 10 gallon tank with a UV steriliser with flow reduced to that which will kill parasites. The temperature is raised to 86-88 F. An ornament is placed in the tank for ich ridden CL to hide in. The tank glass is scraped every day so that the tomont are detached and are at the mercy of the UV steriliser. The trophont, when they mature and detach from the fish will also be at the mercy of the UV steriliser. Eventually, all the ich will pass through the UV and get destroyed. Does this sound feasible? I won't be getting any more CL until I can almost guarantee a cure for them if the eventuality ever arises. I get too attached... Nikki |
"Nikki Casali" wrote in message
... NetMax wrote: "BigBadGourami" sschoenfeld[remove wrote in message news:zpIBd.58283$k25.25584@attbi_s53... Hi all I need some advise. Today my Clown Loaches and a few others began flashing like crazy. I have had them for a year and they have been very healthy once I got them past the ich. I checked the water, NH3/NO2 is at zero pH is stable at 7.6 and temperature is also stable at 75. I do ~ 40% water changes weekly with gravel vac and filter cleaning. I took a few slime coat swabs and checked them under the microscope No signs of parasites of any kind were detected. I have added salt at about 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons incase it is fungus or some other sort of parasite I missed. Anyhow I am open to suggestions? Tank 55 gal 1 year old filter 1 regent 40-60 1 penguin 330 biowheel 2 airstones 1 300 watt ML Neptune heater population: 4 clown loaches 3 dojo loaches 6 platies\ 3 sword tails 6 mollies 3 medium Opaline gouramis 3 small pearl gourmis 1 dwarf gourami 8 black skirt tetras 1 Pl@co Dose with Melafix. Had you added anything to that tank? I'm wondering whether there is a surefire way of treating Clowns without the need of any medications? I thinking about setting up a bare 10 gallon tank with a UV steriliser with flow reduced to that which will kill parasites. The temperature is raised to 86-88 F. An ornament is placed in the tank for ich ridden CL to hide in. The tank glass is scraped every day so that the tomont are detached and are at the mercy of the UV steriliser. The trophont, when they mature and detach from the fish will also be at the mercy of the UV steriliser. Eventually, all the ich will pass through the UV and get destroyed. As far as I understand it, the UV is most effective on tomites (or theronts once the cilia is detached), as the tomonts duck for cover pretty quickly, and any self-respectable trophont wouldn't be caught in the water column ;~), but that's just what I've read. I don't know how effective the UV is supposed to be though (might take a few passes), check the specs for the UV spectrum. Did you know that there is a UV spectrum which breaks down chloramines? (oops side-tracking..). Does this sound feasible? I won't be getting any more CL until I can almost guarantee a cure for them if the eventuality ever arises. I get too attached... The plan sounds feasible, but you want to hear from folks that can find fault with your strategy. Diatomaceous earth filtration is known to effectively remove Ich from the water column, so that might be a better strategy for you. hth -- www.NetMax.tk Nikki |
On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 07:14:40 -0600, "Margolis"
wrote: "Dick" wrote in message .. . On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 00:56:15 GMT, "Sarah Navarro" I have 2 Clowns in another 10 gallon tank. They are tight buddies and seem quite content. I thought I might have to move them to one of my larger community tanks if they grew too large for the 10. After over a year and no noticeable growth, I believe they will stay in the 10. If they are eating they will grow. As long as the water conditions aren't so bad that it keeps them sick and prevents growth. Clown loaches are slow growers, but they will eventually make it to a foot long unless they die. There are plenty of vendor sites that indicate CL length of 5 to 6 inches. At their current no growth, I think mine will be on the small size. I have 11 total and none have had an growth spurt in 18 months. I am certainly hoping you are wrong about size. I have heard this larger size quoted many times, but balance this against the vendor estimates. dick |
"Dick" wrote in message
... On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 07:14:40 -0600, "Margolis" There are plenty of vendor sites that indicate CL length of 5 to 6 inches. At their current no growth, I think mine will be on the small size. I have 11 total and none have had an growth spurt in 18 months. I am certainly hoping you are wrong about size. I have heard this larger size quoted many times, but balance this against the vendor estimates. dick I have seen them a lot of them10-12" long, they don't start breeding until they are about 6-8" long. I personally have had them get up to about 6-7" before trading them in. This next batch I am going to get I am going to let grow out completely. A lfs currently has 4 that are about 12" long. -- Margolis http://web.archive.org/web/200302152...qs/AGQ2FAQ.htm http://www.unrealtower.org/faq |
"Nikki Casali" wrote in message
... I'm wondering whether there is a surefire way of treating Clowns without the need of any medications? Let me put it to you this way, I have never used ich medicines and never will. they are just a way for somebody to make money, imho. If the water is clean and warm and the fish are not stressed out the ich will go away without any medications. I just bought(rescued) a dwarf gourami at a petco that had the worst case of ich I have ever seen. His whole body was almost white. There literally had to be over a 1000 dots on his little body. I brought him home and put him in my 20 gallon with a temp of 82°f and now 5 days later he is almost completely cured. He only has about a dozen dots on his body now and is eating like a pig. Usually the ich will dissapear in just a couple of days if not too bad. The medicines just treat the symptoms, (which is what I consider ich to be). When in reality it is something else that is causing the fish to become susceptible to the ich parasite. btw, not a single other fish in the tank has gotten any ich on them. -- Margolis http://web.archive.org/web/200302152...qs/AGQ2FAQ.htm http://www.unrealtower.org/faq |
NetMax wrote: "Nikki Casali" wrote in message ... NetMax wrote: "BigBadGourami" sschoenfeld[remove wrote in message news:zpIBd.58283$k25.25584@attbi_s53... Hi all I need some advise. Today my Clown Loaches and a few others began flashing like crazy. I have had them for a year and they have been very healthy once I got them past the ich. I checked the water, NH3/NO2 is at zero pH is stable at 7.6 and temperature is also stable at 75. I do ~ 40% water changes weekly with gravel vac and filter cleaning. I took a few slime coat swabs and checked them under the microscope No signs of parasites of any kind were detected. I have added salt at about 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons incase it is fungus or some other sort of parasite I missed. Anyhow I am open to suggestions? Tank 55 gal 1 year old filter 1 regent 40-60 1 penguin 330 biowheel 2 airstones 1 300 watt ML Neptune heater population: 4 clown loaches 3 dojo loaches 6 platies\ 3 sword tails 6 mollies 3 medium Opaline gouramis 3 small pearl gourmis 1 dwarf gourami 8 black skirt tetras 1 Pl@co Dose with Melafix. Had you added anything to that tank? I'm wondering whether there is a surefire way of treating Clowns without the need of any medications? I thinking about setting up a bare 10 gallon tank with a UV steriliser with flow reduced to that which will kill parasites. The temperature is raised to 86-88 F. An ornament is placed in the tank for ich ridden CL to hide in. The tank glass is scraped every day so that the tomont are detached and are at the mercy of the UV steriliser. The trophont, when they mature and detach from the fish will also be at the mercy of the UV steriliser. Eventually, all the ich will pass through the UV and get destroyed. As far as I understand it, the UV is most effective on tomites (or theronts once the cilia is detached), as the tomonts duck for cover pretty quickly, and any self-respectable trophont wouldn't be caught in the water column ;~), but that's just what I've read. If they're not in the water column, they must be attached to the glass sides. But I will be harassing anything holding on to the glass with my evil magnet cleaner. I don't know how effective the UV is supposed to be though (might take a few passes), check the specs for the UV spectrum. Did you know that there is a UV spectrum which breaks down chloramines? (oops side-tracking..). I think you have to adjust the flow to get the correct exposure time for protozoans. Does this sound feasible? I won't be getting any more CL until I can almost guarantee a cure for them if the eventuality ever arises. I get too attached... The plan sounds feasible, but you want to hear from folks that can find fault with your strategy. Diatomaceous earth filtration is known to effectively remove Ich from the water column, so that might be a better strategy for you. hth Filtering water with tiny prehistoric diatom skeletons sounds...interesting! I'd get one of these to see what they're capable of, but I don't think they are sold in the UK. I could order from abroad though. Nikki |
On 2005-01-05, Margolis wrote:
Let me put it to you this way, I have never used ich medicines and never will. they are just a way for somebody to make money, imho. If the water is clean and warm and the fish are not stressed out the ich will go away without any medications. I just bought(rescued) a dwarf gourami at a petco that had the worst case of ich I have ever seen. His whole body was almost white. There literally had to be over a 1000 dots on his little body. I brought him home and put him in my 20 gallon with a temp of 82°f and now 5 days later he is almost completely cured. He only has about a dozen dots on his body now and is eating like a pig. Usually the ich will dissapear in just a couple of days if not too bad. The medicines just treat the symptoms, (which is what I consider ich to be). When in reality it is something else that is causing the fish to become susceptible to the ich parasite. btw, not a single other fish in the tank has gotten any ich on them. I'll second this theory for Ich treatment. I haven't tried the medications, but as per various things I've read around the newsgroups: 1) Keep the temp up - 82, 85 degress F to start makes it harder for the Ich to survive 2) Change water frequently! As with any illess I've treated, fresh water is always a good thing. It'll remove parasites and give clean water to the fish, who are already struggling 3) I've heard (and tried) dosing double the recommended amount of salt in the tank when treating Ich. I'm not sure what the theory is here - is Ich super-sensitive to salt levels? I'd imagine this depends on the species of fish, but how about Clown Loaches? Good idea, bad idea? -- Ross Vandegrift "The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell." --St. Augustine, De Genesi ad Litteram, Book II, xviii, 37 |
"Ross Vandegrift" wrote in message
... On 2005-01-05, Margolis wrote: Let me put it to you this way, I have never used ich medicines and never will. they are just a way for somebody to make money, imho. If the water is clean and warm and the fish are not stressed out the ich will go away without any medications. I just bought(rescued) a dwarf gourami at a petco that had the worst case of ich I have ever seen. His whole body was almost white. There literally had to be over a 1000 dots on his little body. I brought him home and put him in my 20 gallon with a temp of 82°f and now 5 days later he is almost completely cured. He only has about a dozen dots on his body now and is eating like a pig. Usually the ich will dissapear in just a couple of days if not too bad. The medicines just treat the symptoms, (which is what I consider ich to be). When in reality it is something else that is causing the fish to become susceptible to the ich parasite. btw, not a single other fish in the tank has gotten any ich on them. I'll second this theory for Ich treatment. I haven't tried the medications, but as per various things I've read around the newsgroups: 1) Keep the temp up - 82, 85 degress F to start makes it harder for the Ich to survive 2) Change water frequently! As with any illess I've treated, fresh water is always a good thing. It'll remove parasites and give clean water to the fish, who are already struggling 3) I've heard (and tried) dosing double the recommended amount of salt in the tank when treating Ich. I'm not sure what the theory is here - is Ich super-sensitive to salt levels? I'd imagine this depends on the species of fish, but how about Clown Loaches? Good idea, bad idea? -- Ross Vandegrift Along the lines of non-medicinal treatment of Ich, this can be especially true of larger fish which have more energy to weather a temporary ailment. A good example was the 100g Oscar tank at the store. Every single time I put an Oscar in there (donated fish which had overgrown some customer's aquariums), it would get Ich. This was understandable as an LFS often has residual levels of Ich in tanks, and the new Oscar was stressed (from the change and new tankmates). If I did not raise the temperature, add salt, lower the lights or use any medications, it would generally clear in a few days. If I used medication, it might clear a day faster. What I always did do was remain diligent about gravel vacuuming (twice a week) and they got their regular small water changes (4 per day, commercial tank). Ich generally uses sick or dead fish as a host and have a very difficult time infecting otherwise healthy fish, so if the water is good, Ich is not as likely to occur, and has a harder time reproducing. However, scaleless fish like Clown loaches are much more susceptible to Ich, sick and very small fish don't have the energy to weather the disease and transport stress can leave ordinary fish susceptible to the disease, so ymmv. -- www.NetMax.tk |
Sarah Navarro wrote:
Dick, Since you are more familiar with clown loaches than me maybe you can answer my question. I just bought two clowns on Saturday (my first ones ever). I put them in my quarantine tank (it is very small, only 2 gallons). Since then they have been hiding under the bubbler bar and haven't came out yet. They are both hiding under there together upside down. Are clown loaches notorious for hiding, or do you think it's because they are new, or are they sick? They came from Petsmart. Thanks, Sarah Clown loaches should be kept in groups no smaller than 5-6 animals, they always stay in a pack: sleeping, hunting, you name it. They also can get quite big over the years, so you need a fairly large tank. Initially they tend to be rather shy and hide, caves made from pipe pieces, bamboo or the like should be provided. They will also show a suspiciously pale colour, which will become brighter over time. As they get more comfortable, you may see them more often. Clowns seem to recognise their keeper, mine don't mind my presence in the room, but hide when foreigners enter. |
On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 07:35:13 +0100, Dr Engelbert Buxbaum
wrote: Sarah Navarro wrote: Dick, Since you are more familiar with clown loaches than me maybe you can answer my question. I just bought two clowns on Saturday (my first ones ever). I put them in my quarantine tank (it is very small, only 2 gallons). Since then they have been hiding under the bubbler bar and haven't came out yet. They are both hiding under there together upside down. Are clown loaches notorious for hiding, or do you think it's because they are new, or are they sick? They came from Petsmart. Thanks, Sarah Clown loaches should be kept in groups no smaller than 5-6 animals, they always stay in a pack: sleeping, hunting, you name it. They also can get quite big over the years, so you need a fairly large tank. Initially they tend to be rather shy and hide, caves made from pipe pieces, bamboo or the like should be provided. They will also show a suspiciously pale colour, which will become brighter over time. As they get more comfortable, you may see them more often. Clowns seem to recognise their keeper, mine don't mind my presence in the room, but hide when foreigners enter. I am so surprised to hear so many experiences that differ from mine. At times I wonder if we are talking the same critters. I see no difference in the general behavior of the 2 Clowns in the 10 gallon tank, the 3 Clowns in the 29 gallon tank or the 6 Clowns in the 75 gallon tank. There are some individual differences. Those 6 in the 75 gallon tank are more inclined to swarm together with other fish in the tank, especially with the 9 Siamese Algae Eaters and 3 Blue Gouramis of all things. My Clowns are about 2 years old and none exceed 4 inches. I see no difference by tank. The SAEs and the Clown Loaches are my favorites and I look forward to them becoming the last survivors as I do not plan to add anymore long lived fish to my tanks. I would rather I outlive my fish and it is becoming close call. I don't know why you use the word "should" in your discussion. I have found nothing in this hobby that lends itself to that word. Lot's of opinions, but hard and fast rules, I think not. dick |
Dick wrote:
I don't know why you use the word "should" in your discussion. I have found nothing in this hobby that lends itself to that word. Lot's of opinions, but hard and fast rules, I think not. Really? How about this: you should not keep oscars and guppies in the same tank. You should learn about the nitrogen cycle before buying any fish. You should maintain a healthy tank by either weekly cleanings and water changes or by heavily planting it. Rules do exist and so do exceptions to those rules. Some are not rules, but suggestions based on the natural habitat of the fish we keep. Clown loaches are gregarious animals, thus you should keep them in groups. Will there be some individuals that do fine by themselves? Sure! Will there be individuals that die out of loneliness? Sure! -- Victor M. Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM) Send your spam he Email me he |
On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 15:59:44 GMT, Victor Martinez
wrote: Dick wrote: I don't know why you use the word "should" in your discussion. I have found nothing in this hobby that lends itself to that word. Lot's of opinions, but hard and fast rules, I think not. Really? How about this: you should not keep oscars and guppies in the same tank. You should learn about the nitrogen cycle before buying any fish. You should maintain a healthy tank by either weekly cleanings and water changes or by heavily planting it. Rules do exist and so do exceptions to those rules. Some are not rules, but suggestions based on the natural habitat of the fish we keep. Clown loaches are gregarious animals, thus you should keep them in groups. Will there be some individuals that do fine by themselves? Sure! Will there be individuals that die out of loneliness? Sure! I react differently to the word "should." It reminds me of my parents telling me what I "should" do. It has such an "authoritarian" sound and I don't like lectures. If you all like using the word "should" that is your business, but I think there are few times when I would choose to use it. As for the guppies, your statement would not work if the guppies were in the tank as live food. I think it is too easy to assume things about animal behavior that isn't necessarilly true. I see my Clowns off by themselves as often as in any kind of grouping. Early on, I saw the Clowns stay to themselves, then, as the months went along, they were just as often in a group with other species. I moved one "runt" into a tank by himself as he was mostly staying to himself and also because he didn't seem to get to the food. Once I got him to my hospital tank, he really thrived and I only lost him after moving him to another community tank to clear snails. dick |
Dick wrote:
telling me what I "should" do. It has such an "authoritarian" sound and I don't like lectures. Sounds like you have an issue with authority. Besides, should is *always* a suggestion. If you wanted to give an order, you would say "must", not "should". If you all like using the word "should" that is your business, but I There is nothing wrong with the would should, why shouldn't we use it? think there are few times when I would choose to use it. As for the guppies, your statement would not work if the guppies were in the tank as live food. Wrong. In that case you are not keeping guppies, you are feeding guppies. See the difference? I think it is too easy to assume things about animal behavior that isn't necessarilly true. I see my Clowns off by themselves as often Yeah, however, when a specific behavior is well documented (i.e. tetras like to school together, clown loaches are gregarious, rainbowfish flash their colors in courtship) then it is true, regardless of what exceptions you might find. Cheers. -- Victor M. Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM) Send your spam he Email me he |
"Victor Martinez" wrote in message
... Dick wrote: snip I think it is too easy to assume things about animal behavior that isn't necessarilly true. I see my Clowns off by themselves as often Yeah, however, when a specific behavior is well documented (i.e. tetras like to school together, clown loaches are gregarious, rainbowfish flash their colors in courtship) then it is true, regardless of what exceptions you might find. Cheers. -- Victor M. Martinez I've observed the same range of behaviour with Clown loaches (with the odd one being a loner). I've also seen it with tetras, though less common (probably because part of the reason for their grouping is self-preservation ;~). If I can throw my 2 cents in, my obligation (as fish-keeper) is to research and provide the appropriate environment (water, tank-mates etc). Lots of times, they decide something different, so when my Mooris decide they are not sand sifters and ignore the sand I gave them, and the Corys lead isolated lives, and the loaches break into 2 or 3 cliques, I still figure I've done my part, and I just usually go along with their choices. -- www.NetMax.tk |
On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 13:36:58 GMT, Victor Martinez
wrote: Dick wrote: telling me what I "should" do. It has such an "authoritarian" sound and I don't like lectures. Sounds like you have an issue with authority. Besides, should is *always* a suggestion. If you wanted to give an order, you would say "must", not "should". Depends on who says "should." If I tell myself I "should" do something, it usually means I have some reservation about doing something I really want to do, so I tell myself, "but, I should...." I sure do have a problem with authority. It is usually something acquired with force. A policeman is not morally or intellectually more right than I am, but he has the force of society saying he is right. "Might makes right." Women and Blacks were second rate citizens because the Bible spelled out the shoulds. Gays today are second rate citizens because the Bible says man should not lay with man as with woman. However, even though the Bible says you should not commit adultery, no one makes much of it. Yes, I do not like action that is directed by "shoulds" and authority. Reason and desire are better guides. We only agree to the social contract as a compromise. When you say Clowns are social animals and should be kept in certain minimal groups, I wonder "says who?" I look at my own experience and want you to know that there are exceptions. Lots of fish are "social" if swimming together is the criteria. However, I have many times noticed multi species groups as well as individual species shoaling. I remember well putting a Platy in the hospital tank with a Molly that had been there alone for treatment. The platy almost immediately went over to the molly and the two stayed near each other. My 9 Clowns in the 75 gallon tank no longer shoal alone as a species. It is not unusual for the mollies, blue gouramis and Siamese Algae Eaters to shoa with them,l usually in a corner, up and down, so close I wonder how they swim. They could shoal by species by corner, but they don't. On the other hand, in a 29 gallon tank, I have 3 Clowns that do stay together as a species, except when they are not together. By that I mean they don't join into a multi species shoal. How do you know that Clowns should be kept in groups? What do you know about Clowns not kept in groups? What, in your experience, happens if one Clown or two clowns live alone? If you all like using the word "should" that is your business, but I There is nothing wrong with the would should, why shouldn't we use it? So, how does the word "should" help the meaning of your thought? With so many exceptions, how do you say people "should" take a course of action you find best? think there are few times when I would choose to use it. As for the guppies, your statement would not work if the guppies were in the tank as live food. Wrong. In that case you are not keeping guppies, you are feeding guppies. See the difference? Nope, I am not feeding guppies, I am feeding Oscars with guppies and keeping Oscars. I think it is too easy to assume things about animal behavior that isn't necessarilly true. I see my Clowns off by themselves as often Yeah, however, when a specific behavior is well documented (i.e. tetras like to school together, clown loaches are gregarious, rainbowfish flash their colors in courtship) then it is true, regardless of what exceptions you might find. One could look in a classroom and see children of various backgrounds all together. Does that mean that is there desire to be together? Should I paint all children as wanting to be with other children? What happens to the loner? Must he or she be told they "should" join with other children? I think there are enough exceptions to every generalization to be cautious with the word "should." There is quite a difference in tone when saying, "Clowns should be kept in groups of 3 or more" and saying "Clowns seem to stay together much of the time." I would still disagree as I see much broader variations in their groupings including much single activity, but at least you don't invite the response, "Says who?" dick Cheers. |
Dick wrote:
OT rant snipped When you say Clowns are social animals and should be kept in certain minimal groups, I wonder "says who?" I look at my own experience and Logic, you might be familiar with the concept. If clown loaches are social and gregarious animals, it makes sense to want to provide them with the right environment, which in the case of social critters involves more of their own species. How do you know that Clowns should be kept in groups? What do you Because that's how they live in their natural habitat, it makes sense that extends to the home aquaria. know about Clowns not kept in groups? What, in your experience, happens if one Clown or two clowns live alone? I've never kept clowns in groups smaller than 3. I chose to give them as much social interaction as nature seems to imply they need or do better with. So, how does the word "should" help the meaning of your thought? It's a suggestion, as in "You should obey traffic signals". I'm not saying you must, it's a free country, knock yourself out. I'm saying it would be advisable to do so. With so many exceptions, how do you say people "should" take a course of action you find best? There aren't "so many exceptions". Most clown loaches will do better in groups. Why? Because they evolved that way, to live in groups and socialize and play and whatnot. Nope, I am not feeding guppies, I am feeding Oscars with guppies and keeping Oscars. And that's exactly what I said, thanks for proving my point (you're not keeping guppies and oscars). One could look in a classroom and see children of various backgrounds all together. Does that mean that is there desire to be together? Huh? What does this have to do with clown loaches? Do you think their moms send them all to "school" together? Stick to valid analogies if you want to discuss the subject further. -- Victor M. Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM) Send your spam he Email me he |
Dick wrote: What, in your experience, happens if one Clown or two clowns live alone? Happy clown Sad clown? steve |
One could look in a classroom and see children of various backgrounds all together. Does that mean that is there desire to be together? Huh? What does this have to do with clown loaches? Do you think their moms send them all to "school" together? Stick to valid analogies if you want to discuss the subject further. I has to do with observations and what they mean. For instance I notice 3 to 6 men in various settings: prison yard, poker game, ghetto, gay bar, etc. Do I conclude they all are happier because they are together. I think not. I have had 15 clown loaches for over a year in differing combinations. At one time the 9 in a 75 gallon tank were always together and for a few days formed a daisy chain around an annubia to sleep. In the early months they stayed together. It has been many months since seeing them sleep together. I see more shoaling in the 7 SAEs than I do with the 9 Clowns. On the other hand I have 3 Clowns in a 29 gallon tank and they are most often together at the front and center of the tank. One of them often wanders off by himself. In a 10 gallon tank I have two buds, but one is often off by himself, but returns to where the other one is if startled. I don't think that observations tell us much about need or motivation. Life is more complicated in my experience. If I lived in a town that had a large LFS, I would go there and watch the various tanks that had Clowns Loaches. If I wanted just one, I would look for a "loner" and would probably find one. If I wanted 2, I would look for a pair that stayed together. Would this guarantee anything? Probably not, but I have seen variations in Clown Loach behavior. I have 15 Clowns because of advise such as we are discussing, but I have found Clowns are not consistent over time. The early social behavior in a 75 gallon tank is not the same a year and a half later. I don't know why the Clowns in the 75 gallon tank tend to stay in the plants whereas the 3 in the 29 gallon tank stay in an open area. I don't have a clue why in the 10 gallon tank one of the 2 stays in a ceramic ornament and his buddy only joins him sometimes. I want to thank you for sharing your opinions. It is so hard to explore ideas alone. dick |
On 11 Jan 2005 10:59:02 -0800, "default"
wrote: Dick wrote: What, in your experience, happens if one Clown or two clowns live alone? Happy clown Sad clown? steve How do you know? I have 15 clowns in different settings. For awhile I had one runt that wasn't eating when with a larger group, but ate and grew in a hospital tank with a couple of live bearers. I would say he was "happy" as he was now eating. G I didn't catch the humour on first reading. Thanks for the grin! dick |
That is a VERY close minded opinion,
if i dont like cheese does that mean no ones likes it? no. Your experience says that "x" happens, but everyone elses says that "Y" happens, its best to take a consensous on the entire thing and make your own choice, wheter it be right or wrong. On that note, and my pollitical glad flared beyond belieif. Clown loachs (as with yo yo loaches, a fish i know all too well) should be kept in larges groups of 6ish, however if kept in groups less then a comfortable number they become aggressive, solitary and retiring. You have no right to say he masses are wrong, nor do you have the right to say that you are the exception to the rules. Your take on the bible is somewhat offensive and i feel that although you know you are wrong you refuse to accept it. Speaking from my punk ethics: ****ing ******** man, ****ing ****, saying ****ing "blacks" like they are any differant from anyone else, you close minded hypocrytical ****, not everything we do is right, ive made some mistakes in my time, more then msot, but i deal with it, your wrong, the masses state that. Deal with it. -- Posted via CichlidFish.com http://www.cichlidfish.com/portal/forums |
Dick wrote: I have had 15 clown loaches for over a year in differing combinations. At one time the 9 in a 75 gallon tank were always together and for a few days formed a daisy chain around an annubia to sleep. natural behavior? In the early months they stayed together. It has been many months since seeing them sleep together. Now that they are familiar with their surroundings and know that they really are all together anyway? After all, they are in an enclosed tank. Can they sense this? On the other hand I have 3 Clowns in a 29 gallon tank and they are most often together at the front and center of the tank. Natural behavior? One of them often wanders off by himself. In a 10 gallon tank I have two buds, but one is often off by himself, but returns to where the other one is if startled. How far does he wander? To the next room? Over to the neighbor's house? And he returns to the group, for security, when startled. Hmmmmmm. I agree with the above poster. Clown loaches, if they are to be kept in the most natural surroundings we can provide, SHOULD be kept as follows: In water In water temps between 72 and 78 degrees With ample food, prefferably live worms (naturally) With live plants With hiding places In a relatively inactive portion of a building (to avoid startling) Within a group, like they are naturally found in the wild, and as evidence shows, their preference when first introduced into a tank and/or when they become frightened or startled. steve |
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