NEED SOME POND ADVICE
 

Hello,
I recently moved into a new place that includes a large pond on
the property (I'd say it is approximately 15 ft by 25 ft and deep), and
there are maybe a couple hundred goldfish in there. I have been feeding
the goldfish flake food twice a day, and they seem to be doing fine. I
have not measured the pond, but it seems to be fairly deep. There is a
lot of vegetation in the pond (lilly pads and other plants). The fish
seem to be doing fine, but I've been told I should have some sort of
filter or something on the pond. The problem is, I have NO electricity
on this particular area of the lot where the pond is. The water is also
a greenish color, so there is obviously algae in the water. Is this bad
for the fish? I know I can get some algecide to put in there, but would
that reduce the oxygen in the water? Is it possible to buy some kind of
"air" pump that just floats on the surface of the water and shoots air
down through a hose or something? Please advise me what to do as I want
to take proper care of the fish, but I don't want to spend a ton of
money, and remember there is no electricity at this location.

Thank you in advance. Any suggestions appreciated.

The easiest way to keep a pond is to have
lots of plants, a low fish load and move the
water around.

You can buy a solar powered pump and
fountain. Go to www.froogle.com and
you can find 57 hits currently. You'll have
water movement during the day (of course ;-)

I'd cut down on the number of goldfish.Catch
them. Many pet
stores will take them in, call and find out
(different states have different laws and individual
stores have their own policies regarding payment
or trade or just taking them off your hands - the idea
is to keep soft hearted fish owners from turning them
loose in natural waterways). Or someone online
has a humane way to dispose of them.


Sounds like you have a lot of plants already.
Plants will filter fish waste in a low stocked
pond.

Do not put an algaecide in the pond. It just makes
lots of suddenly dead algae that fuels the next
algae bloom and you don't have a filter to strain all
that dead algae out.

To get rid of the green water stop feeding your
remaining fish, just do it once and a while for fun,
they don't need to be fed once their numbers are
reduced in a nicely planted pond of that size.
Excess fish food and fish waste fuels algae.

Put in a few more lilies, look online at some pretty
plants that look interesting to you (make sure they
aren't labeled invasive) and add a few more plants if
you think the pond can support them. Plants will
outcompete algae for the pond's nutrients. Most ponds
will have some algae, it is part of a pond's natural setup,
but you should be able to see into
the pond and not just see fish lips at the surface.

kathy :-)

Your concern for the fish is a good thing. The number of fish you report
suggests that they are doing well and reproducing.

Food: You can go to catfish food and save a lot of money. There is some
discussion about the fact that the food is designed for young fish...but
many of us have used it for decades without noticeable bad effects.

Population: Kathy is right about pet shops and about the value of cutting
back the numbers of goldies. Unfortunately, that will also fuel their
successful spawn. However, the big guys will eat up the babies if they are
hungry.

Algae bloom: You will get a spring algae bloom from winter waste. From
there, balance is a big issue. Too bad there is no electricity. You may
have blanket weed later this year if the nutrients are way out of line.

Size: Is the pond lined? Do you know its depth? If you do, you can
calculate the volume and thus its basic carying capacity. Here is a pond
calculator site. http://www.gardenponds.com If your pond is oval and has
an average depth of 2 ft, it is about 4400 gallons! How does it get/retain
its water? Do you add? Is there a spring? If it runs off, you may have a
problem of goldies entering the wild...not good.

Fun: Sounds like you have a well estqblished pond. Enjoy it!

Jim

"The Space Boss" wrote in message
ps.com...
Hello,
I recently moved into a new place that includes a large pond on
the property (I'd say it is approximately 15 ft by 25 ft and deep), and
there are maybe a couple hundred goldfish in there. I have been feeding
the goldfish flake food twice a day, and they seem to be doing fine. I
have not measured the pond, but it seems to be fairly deep. There is a
lot of vegetation in the pond (lilly pads and other plants). The fish
seem to be doing fine, but I've been told I should have some sort of
filter or something on the pond. The problem is, I have NO electricity
on this particular area of the lot where the pond is. The water is also
a greenish color, so there is obviously algae in the water. Is this bad
for the fish? I know I can get some algecide to put in there, but would
that reduce the oxygen in the water? Is it possible to buy some kind of
"air" pump that just floats on the surface of the water and shoots air
down through a hose or something? Please advise me what to do as I want
to take proper care of the fish, but I don't want to spend a ton of
money, and remember there is no electricity at this location.

Thank you in advance. Any suggestions appreciated.

Will you fess up?

How many of you feed a lesser quality fish food and find you can't keep
lilies in your koi pond? I wonder if there is a correlation? ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

On Sat, 26 Mar "Phyllis and Jim Hurley" wrote:

Population: Kathy is right about pet shops and about the value of cutting
back the numbers of goldies. Unfortunately, that will also fuel their
successful spawn.

I respectfully disagree, I think it is the "feeding" that fuels it, if they
aren't fed, live off the pond than the statement below controls the
problem:

However, the big guys will eat up the babies if they are hungry.

Reason: I worried about over population in the Demon pond when someone (and
we do know who) put in 6 comet goldfish (not even pretty ones). Since they
aren't fed and must compete with a dozen butterfly koi and lots of rosy
reds, we haven't had the population explosion I worried about.

To the original poster, even without a filter you can help the water
quality by doing frequent small water changes, 20% once a week. You'll will
need something to treat the new water to detox chlorine or chloramines,
whichever your water company uses.

BTW, can you run an extension cord out there? Not prudent, but many of us
did it (and still do it) for years before we got the post right out to the
pond(s)/filter(s). ~ jan


See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

Every new ponder should read this sight for insight:
http://www.vcnet.com/koi_net/H2Oquality.html

Old ponders should read too, if they never have, and/or refresh themselves
now an again. :) ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 12:33:51 -0800, ~ jan JJsPond.us
wrote:

Will you fess up?

How many of you feed a lesser quality fish food and find you can't keep
lilies in your koi pond? I wonder if there is a correlation? ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

I feed high quality food (Dainichi & Sho Koi), but _never_ give my
Koi lettuce or anything that looks like a plant part so they don't
make the connection. So far, so good. Seven untouched hardy water
lilies in with eight 18" Koi and ten half that size.

Steve J. Noll | Ventura California (USDA Zone 10)
| The Glass Block Koi Pond/Fountain:
| http://www.kissingfrogs.tv

"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
...
Will you fess up?

How many of you feed a lesser quality fish food and find you can't keep
lilies in your koi pond? I wonder if there is a correlation? ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~
=====================
My koi get cheap catfish food ($9 for 50 lbs) and some puppy and kitten chow
as a treat. Before that they got the expensive foods. They always went
after the plants, no matter what they were fed.
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

Interesting thought...cheap food, eat plants. How does the connection work?

We have had catfish food and lillies for all of our years (about 7) and they
have never been eaten. We also have WH and other plants in the pond. They
do a number on the WH roots. However, we generally have a 4 x 9 area of WH
to work on. The rocks that the lillies are bedded in get pulled out by
rooting koi. Interestingly for us, some of the nice lillies Tom sent us
have fallen out of their basins and have absolutely taken off lying bareroot
on the bottom of the pond! To this point I see no effect of catfish food on
the koi and lillies.

Overall, I am not sure of any correlation save that the koi eat WH roots.

Jim

"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
...
Will you fess up?

How many of you feed a lesser quality fish food and find you can't keep
lilies in your koi pond? I wonder if there is a correlation? ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

I think your point is well taken...fish eat fish. Hungry fish eat more of
the babies than full fish.

As to thinning. I do believe that more well-fed adults means more
spawning...but that may not result in a greater survival rate. I think
fish like their little swimming protein bundles...fed or not. I am sure
cover for the babies is another an important part of their survival rate.
It can shield them from their parents and other species.

We have had NO babies grow up over the last five years. The fish are well
fed and do spawn. We have a bunch of mosquito fish in the pond. They
reproduce well and are, I suspect, responsible for the loss of many of the
little fish and the eggs. We have a good bit of cover for them as well (WH,
egg crates koi can't get under, etc. We think the mosquito fish are
probably why none of the baby goldies or koi have made it. We did get
babies in the first year, when we had feeder goldfish and baby koi only in
the pond. Since they grew up and the mosquito fish went in, nothing. It
would be nice to have babies, but it would also mean having to cull to keep
the pond population steady. Our koi now run in the 24" category and the
goldies in the 7-10" category. Stable population is probably good for us.

Jim

"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 26 Mar "Phyllis and Jim Hurley" wrote:

Population: Kathy is right about pet shops and about the value of cutting
back the numbers of goldies. Unfortunately, that will also fuel their
successful spawn.

I respectfully disagree, I think it is the "feeding" that fuels it, if
they
aren't fed, live off the pond than the statement below controls the
problem:

However, the big guys will eat up the babies if they are hungry.

Reason: I worried about over population in the Demon pond when someone
(and
we do know who) put in 6 comet goldfish (not even pretty ones). Since they
aren't fed and must compete with a dozen butterfly koi and lots of rosy
reds, we haven't had the population explosion I worried about.

To the original poster, even without a filter you can help the water
quality by doing frequent small water changes, 20% once a week. You'll
will
need something to treat the new water to detox chlorine or chloramines,
whichever your water company uses.

BTW, can you run an extension cord out there? Not prudent, but many of us
did it (and still do it) for years before we got the post right out to the
pond(s)/filter(s). ~ jan


See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

Interesting points Jim, as I expect to be faced with the same issues.
I am wondering then, how do you keep the mosquito fish population
under control? Or are they self-limiting -- in the same way?

Thanks, David

On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 06:51:44 -0600, "Phyllis and Jim Hurley"
wrote:

I think your point is well taken...fish eat fish. Hungry fish eat more of
the babies than full fish.

As to thinning. I do believe that more well-fed adults means more
spawning...but that may not result in a greater survival rate. I think
fish like their little swimming protein bundles...fed or not. I am sure
cover for the babies is another an important part of their survival rate.
It can shield them from their parents and other species.

We have had NO babies grow up over the last five years. The fish are well
fed and do spawn. We have a bunch of mosquito fish in the pond. They
reproduce well and are, I suspect, responsible for the loss of many of the
little fish and the eggs. We have a good bit of cover for them as well (WH,
egg crates koi can't get under, etc. We think the mosquito fish are
probably why none of the baby goldies or koi have made it. We did get
babies in the first year, when we had feeder goldfish and baby koi only in
the pond. Since they grew up and the mosquito fish went in, nothing. It
would be nice to have babies, but it would also mean having to cull to keep
the pond population steady. Our koi now run in the 24" category and the
goldies in the 7-10" category. Stable population is probably good for us.

Jim

"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 26 Mar "Phyllis and Jim Hurley" wrote:

Population: Kathy is right about pet shops and about the value of cutting
back the numbers of goldies. Unfortunately, that will also fuel their
successful spawn.

I respectfully disagree, I think it is the "feeding" that fuels it, if
they
aren't fed, live off the pond than the statement below controls the
problem:

However, the big guys will eat up the babies if they are hungry.

Reason: I worried about over population in the Demon pond when someone
(and
we do know who) put in 6 comet goldfish (not even pretty ones). Since they
aren't fed and must compete with a dozen butterfly koi and lots of rosy
reds, we haven't had the population explosion I worried about.

To the original poster, even without a filter you can help the water
quality by doing frequent small water changes, 20% once a week. You'll
will
need something to treat the new water to detox chlorine or chloramines,
whichever your water company uses.

BTW, can you run an extension cord out there? Not prudent, but many of us
did it (and still do it) for years before we got the post right out to the
pond(s)/filter(s). ~ jan


See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

I feed Hikari & Sho Koi. Never had problems with my Koi eating the lilies,
just rooting them out of the pot. I can't keep WH at all, they devour the
roots right up to the plant base. I do feed frozen peas as a supplement and
they like those.

--

"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
...
Will you fess up?

How many of you feed a lesser quality fish food and find you can't keep
lilies in your koi pond? I wonder if there is a correlation? ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 18:23:50 GMT, "JB" wrote:

I feed Hikari & Sho Koi. Never had problems with my Koi eating the lilies,
just rooting them out of the pot. I can't keep WH at all, they devour the
roots right up to the plant base. I do feed frozen peas as a supplement and
they like those.

Sho Koi & peas here, no problems, but if I put WH in, I get a massive spawn
so they have a little egg with their veggies.

New food I'm trying that the goldfish inside are really enjoying right now
is this Mandu fu (I think I spelled that right). ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

~ jan JJsPond.us wrote:

Will you fess up?

How many of you feed a lesser quality fish food and find you can't keep
lilies in your koi pond? I wonder if there is a correlation? ~ jan

Nope (at least in my case). When I had koi, I fed them cheap food (and not
much of it) and never had a problem with the plants.
--
derek

~ jan JJsPond.us wrote:

On Sat, 26 Mar "Phyllis and Jim Hurley" wrote:

Population: Kathy is right about pet shops and about the value of cutting
back the numbers of goldies. Unfortunately, that will also fuel their
successful spawn.

I respectfully disagree, I think it is the "feeding" that fuels it, if
they aren't fed, live off the pond than the statement below controls the
problem:

I'd agree. I've never had a problem keeping lots of fish in a pond, but not
the numbers you see in well-fed ponds. Mine are always fed for one reason
only - to get them to come to the surface.
--
derek

Interesting points Jim, as I expect to be faced with the same issues.
I am wondering then, how do you keep the mosquito fish population
under control? Or are they self-limiting -- in the same way?

Thanks, David

Mosquito fish get eaten by the koi, usually not intentionally. Mosquito
fish will attack a koi pellet far bigger than their mouth, along comes a
koi, who inhales many pellets at a time. Down go pellets and fresh protein.
;) I found winter knocked their population down.

I had mosquito fish from the get go, and never had any babies. The year I
decided to continue surface circulation did them all in. I guess it was too
cold, being that they are surface cruisers. The next year, koi babies
survived in the filter. The year after culling my big fish down due to
critical mass emergency, I had koi babies in the filter and in the pond.
And foolish me. I'd also put eggs in plant containers and the lily pond.
Koi babies everywhere. So far I've been lucky enough to give them away. One
ponder in particular took quite a few because they had made a special fry
grow out pond and then didn't have a spawn. Isn't that how it goes? ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~