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Pond in planning stages
Hi All,
After lurking on this group for a few months and a lot of research elsewhere I am almost ready to finalize the plans for our pond. We will most likely be using pond liner due to the area to be covered and the fact that it won't be completely square or rectangular. The structure will be decking panels. I will probably need to put a grid in short-term because of my 4 year old daughter. We are planning to keep fish in here - hubbie wants Koi but this is still up for debate. The pond is going to be raised around 2-3 foot above ground level. I was wondering if we need to dig below the surface at all as well? The problem is that our soakaway runs around six inches below where the end of the pond is going to be. Of course there is the possibility to dig deeper at the other end of where the pond is planned for. Any thoughts on this would be helpful - especially on the need to dig and if yes how deep? Thanks Gill |
"Gill Passman" gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote in message .. . Any thoughts on this would be helpful - especially on the need to dig and if yes how deep? ================== If it deep freezes where you live you would need some kind of heater to keep an area unfrozen - or dig below the frost line. As you know the fish will not survive being frozen solid. -- McKoi.... the frugal ponder... EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries before flushing." :-) ~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o |
DUH! On Sun, 15 May 2005 15:34:51 -0500, "Reel McKoi" of mumbled something to the effect of: ===If it deep freezes where you live you would need some kind of heater to keep ===an area unfrozen - or dig below the frost line. As you know the fish will ===not survive being frozen solid. Give the folks a break. I am sure they are well aware most fish would not take kindly to being encased in a block of ice...........And you did not answer the question either. YOu can get my with most any depth, but deeper is better in the colder climes, as you can take advantage of warmer ground temps and if you install a stock tank heater you can get my with even shallower depths. Don't take it for granted if the frost level is only 2 feet your safe at 3 feet......odds are it will bite you one day. A lot of folks have kept fish in the cold climes at depths of 3 feet or less with the use of a heater in the pond, or with a shelter over the pond with a bit of heat inside.......Personally I would make it as deep as I could, and if it turns out its not quite deep enough add a heat source, or move fish indoors during winter season as a lot also do. ============================================== Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked! ~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o |
"~Roy~" wrote in message ... DUH! On Sun, 15 May 2005 15:34:51 -0500, "Reel McKoi" of mumbled something to the effect of: ===If it deep freezes where you live you would need some kind of heater to keep ===an area unfrozen - or dig below the frost line. As you know the fish will ===not survive being frozen solid. Give the folks a break. I am sure they are well aware most fish would not take kindly to being encased in a block of ice...........And you did not answer the question either. YOu can get my with most any depth, but deeper is better in the colder climes, as you can take advantage of warmer ground temps and if you install a stock tank heater you can get my with even shallower depths. Don't take it for granted if the frost level is only 2 feet your safe at 3 feet......odds are it will bite you one day. A lot of folks have kept fish in the cold climes at depths of 3 feet or less with the use of a heater in the pond, or with a shelter over the pond with a bit of heat inside.......Personally I would make it as deep as I could, and if it turns out its not quite deep enough add a heat source, or move fish indoors during winter season as a lot also do. ============================================== Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked! ~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o Moving the fish indoors is not an option - we are already over-run with tropical tanks - 6 at the last count and more planned he, he....a heater is a good option and one I have already thought of.... Our winters vary....this year was very mild down here but not in the rest of the UK where there was a big freeze. When I had a pond before I saw a good 2-3 inches of ice - used a football to provide air. Maybe if I dig down an extra couple of feet where I can without going into the soakaway this might provide additional sanctuary for the fish - and have the bulk of it 2-3 feet with a heater - what do you think? Thanks Gill |
"Gill Passman" gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote in message .. . Moving the fish indoors is not an option - we are already over-run with tropical tanks - 6 at the last count and more planned he, he....a heater is a good option and one I have already thought of.... ## And that should work. Since my propagation pools outdoors are on the surface I drop an inexpensive heater in each one. It floats through a block of Styrofoam. The fish spend the winter under these dangling heaters. Even the cheap aquarium ones work and last for years. :-) Our winters vary....this year was very mild down here but not in the rest of the UK where there was a big freeze. When I had a pond before I saw a good 2-3 inches of ice - used a football to provide air. Maybe if I dig down an extra couple of feet where I can without going into the soakaway this might provide additional sanctuary for the fish - and have the bulk of it 2-3 feet with a heater - what do you think? ## That should work. You also need to keep a hole in the ice for air/gas exchange. My heaters usually keep a small hole open - but then the pools are only 150 gallons each. My bigger ponds (800 and 2000 gallons) don't usually freeze over in winter. If they do it's only for a day or so. A small cheap pump keeps an opening in the ice. -- McKoi.... the frugal ponder... EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries before flushing." :-) ~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o |
Gill
What part of the country are you in? Folks routinely get by with ponds of 2 1/2 to 3 feet deep up in Rhode Island and Pennnsylvania during winter months, and not all of them use a heater, but do maintain an opening in the ice. A simple air pump will work in most cases to keep a hole in the ice........but an external temporary shelter made out of PVC pipe framework covered in plastic sheeting does a lot of good as well. It doe snot matter if your pond is 4 feet deep and it only freezes to 3 feet the fish will still be ok..............with or without a heater. Running a heater is not cheap....... ============================================== Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked! ~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o |
~Roy~ wrote:
Gill What part of the country are you in? Folks routinely get by with ponds of 2 1/2 to 3 feet deep up in Rhode Island and Pennnsylvania during winter months, and not all of them use a heater, but do maintain an opening in the ice. A simple air pump will work in most cases to keep a hole in the ice........but an external temporary shelter made out of PVC pipe framework covered in plastic sheeting does a lot of good as well. It doe snot matter if your pond is 4 feet deep and it only freezes to 3 feet the fish will still be ok..............with or without a heater. Running a heater is not cheap....... ============================================== Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked! ~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o I assume we are talking 2.5 to 3 feet below ground. |
"~Roy~" wrote in message ... Gill What part of the country are you in? Folks routinely get by with ponds of 2 1/2 to 3 feet deep up in Rhode Island and Pennnsylvania during winter months, and not all of them use a heater, but do maintain an opening in the ice. A simple air pump will work in most cases to keep a hole in the ice........but an external temporary shelter made out of PVC pipe framework covered in plastic sheeting does a lot of good as well. It doe snot matter if your pond is 4 feet deep and it only freezes to 3 feet the fish will still be ok..............with or without a heater. Running a heater is not cheap....... ============================================== Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked! ~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o I'm in the South East of England...I have seen frost freeze at least 18 inches of stagnent water (in a wheelbarrow). Plus I had a pond here once that was around 30inches and the ice didn't seem to kill the fish - the location did :-( ....under trees - a lesson hard learnt that has put me off for a good 5 years from trying again...this time I think we have the location right... Running a heater is not a cheap option but when we already run 6 on the tropicals I guess one more won't hurt.....I did the ball thing the first year of my original pond and it seemed to work.... If I get coerced, (which seems quite likely) into the Koi, from what I've read they would actually appreciate the extra depth....what do you think? BTW if I gardened naked the colour I would go is blue - LOL Gill |
"Gill Passman" gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote in message .. . Hi All, After lurking on this group for a few months and a lot of research elsewhere I am almost ready to finalize the plans for our pond. We will most likely be using pond liner due to the area to be covered and the fact that it won't be completely square or rectangular. The structure will be decking panels. I will probably need to put a grid in short-term because of my 4 year old daughter. We are planning to keep fish in here - hubbie wants Koi but this is still up for debate. The pond is going to be raised around 2-3 foot above ground level. I was wondering if we need to dig below the surface at all as well? The problem is that our soakaway runs around six inches below where the end of the pond is going to be. Of course there is the possibility to dig deeper at the other end of where the pond is planned for. Any thoughts on this would be helpful - especially on the need to dig and if yes how deep? Thanks Gill I gather a soakaway is a sprinkler system? You should be able to combine all of your ideas to make this work. 1) Dig down a bit where you can. 2) Insulate the above ground part. You could use the dirt from the hole. 3) Cover (insulate) the top in winter. Since you're building this into a deck, it should be fairly simple. 4) Your heater only needs to keep the water around 39°F. This will keep your electric bills down. I only needed a 300W heater to keep my 500 gallon pond heated in the wilds of Canada. :) The heater only ran an hour or so a day. |
"Bill Stock" wrote in message ... "Gill Passman" gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote in message .. . Hi All, After lurking on this group for a few months and a lot of research elsewhere I am almost ready to finalize the plans for our pond. We will most likely be using pond liner due to the area to be covered and the fact that it won't be completely square or rectangular. The structure will be decking panels. I will probably need to put a grid in short-term because of my 4 year old daughter. We are planning to keep fish in here - hubbie wants Koi but this is still up for debate. The pond is going to be raised around 2-3 foot above ground level. I was wondering if we need to dig below the surface at all as well? The problem is that our soakaway runs around six inches below where the end of the pond is going to be. Of course there is the possibility to dig deeper at the other end of where the pond is planned for. Any thoughts on this would be helpful - especially on the need to dig and if yes how deep? Thanks Gill I gather a soakaway is a sprinkler system? You should be able to combine all of your ideas to make this work. 1) Dig down a bit where you can. 2) Insulate the above ground part. You could use the dirt from the hole. 3) Cover (insulate) the top in winter. Since you're building this into a deck, it should be fairly simple. 4) Your heater only needs to keep the water around 39°F. This will keep your electric bills down. I only needed a 300W heater to keep my 500 gallon pond heated in the wilds of Canada. :) The heater only ran an hour or so a day. The soakaway is a very, very solid bit of clay piping that takes the water via downpipes from the roof away from the foundations of the house....it then trickles through a lot of rubble into the soil....very common in England. The pond will be above the deck level but actually covering it in winter shouldn't be too much of an issue..... I guess if we are going for Koi (and I'm not totally convinced as I have 6 tanks in the house to maintain) the deeper the better.... But really what you are saying is that if we do a decent depth and consider a heater digging should not be too much of an issue? Gill |
"Gill Passman" gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote in message .. . "~Roy~" wrote in message ... DUH! On Sun, 15 May 2005 15:34:51 -0500, "Reel McKoi" of mumbled something to the effect of: ===If it deep freezes where you live you would need some kind of heater to keep ===an area unfrozen - or dig below the frost line. As you know the fish will ===not survive being frozen solid. Give the folks a break. I am sure they are well aware most fish would not take kindly to being encased in a block of ice...........And you did not answer the question either. YOu can get my with most any depth, but deeper is better in the colder climes, as you can take advantage of warmer ground temps and if you install a stock tank heater you can get my with even shallower depths. Don't take it for granted if the frost level is only 2 feet your safe at 3 feet......odds are it will bite you one day. A lot of folks have kept fish in the cold climes at depths of 3 feet or less with the use of a heater in the pond, or with a shelter over the pond with a bit of heat inside.......Personally I would make it as deep as I could, and if it turns out its not quite deep enough add a heat source, or move fish indoors during winter season as a lot also do. ============================================== Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked! ~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o Moving the fish indoors is not an option - we are already over-run with tropical tanks - 6 at the last count and more planned he, he....a heater is a good option and one I have already thought of.... Our winters vary....this year was very mild down here but not in the rest of the UK where there was a big freeze. When I had a pond before I saw a good 2-3 inches of ice - used a football to provide air. Maybe if I dig down an extra couple of feet where I can without going into the soakaway this might provide additional sanctuary for the fish - and have the bulk of it 2-3 feet with a heater - what do you think? Thanks Gill You can contact your local university (a geology department) and find out how deep the frostline is (the depth at which the soil will freeze over the winter) in your area, then you should dig at least 5-6 inches to a foot below (deeper is even better) to make sure that your pond will not freeze solid during a hard winter. The frostline here is at 22 inches, so the deepest part of my pond 27"deep (but it is also 18 inches aboveground - surrounded and structural held by 6 inch x 6 inch timbers, so the total depth is 45 inches). I also use an aerator in the winter and keep my waterfall going as long as possible. When the water gets around 40 F, I keep the aewrator going, turn off the waterfall, and I use start to use a pond deicer, which works very well in keeping the worst of the ice off the surface of the pond. If you decide on raising Koi (they get large, but are a joy to raise), the aerator will be very important in the winter, especially if you turn off any circulation you may have. Koi get much larger than goldfish, and have a higher oxygen demand. Also, if you raise Koi, you really should have a filtration system. It doesn't have to be expensive, it just has to work, and preferably be easy to maintain. I hope this helps, and feel free to come back and ask more questions (and do ignore the trolls). Good luck. |
For the part of the pond that is above ground, it would be a good idea to
use a styrofoam or similar insulation board to help the pond retain as much heat as possible. Do not insulate under the bottom, as heat will come up through the soil to help keep the pond critters at about 4C, 40F. The exposed sides will carry heat away quicker than a submerged pond, but insulated, it should be doable. -- RichToyBox http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html "Gill Passman" gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote in message .. . Hi All, After lurking on this group for a few months and a lot of research elsewhere I am almost ready to finalize the plans for our pond. We will most likely be using pond liner due to the area to be covered and the fact that it won't be completely square or rectangular. The structure will be decking panels. I will probably need to put a grid in short-term because of my 4 year old daughter. We are planning to keep fish in here - hubbie wants Koi but this is still up for debate. The pond is going to be raised around 2-3 foot above ground level. I was wondering if we need to dig below the surface at all as well? The problem is that our soakaway runs around six inches below where the end of the pond is going to be. Of course there is the possibility to dig deeper at the other end of where the pond is planned for. Any thoughts on this would be helpful - especially on the need to dig and if yes how deep? Thanks Gill |
"Gill Passman" gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote in message .. . "~Roy~" wrote in message ... Gill What part of the country are you in? Folks routinely get by with ponds of 2 1/2 to 3 feet deep up in Rhode Island and Pennnsylvania during winter months, and not all of them use a heater, but do maintain an opening in the ice. A simple air pump will work in most cases to keep a hole in the ice........but an external temporary shelter made out of PVC pipe framework covered in plastic sheeting does a lot of good as well. It doe snot matter if your pond is 4 feet deep and it only freezes to 3 feet the fish will still be ok..............with or without a heater. Running a heater is not cheap....... ============================================== Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked! ~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o I'm in the South East of England...I have seen frost freeze at least 18 inches of stagnent water (in a wheelbarrow). Plus I had a pond here once that was around 30inches and the ice didn't seem to kill the fish - the location did :-( ....under trees - a lesson hard learnt that has put me off for a good 5 years from trying again...this time I think we have the location right... Running a heater is not a cheap option but when we already run 6 on the tropicals I guess one more won't hurt.....I did the ball thing the first year of my original pond and it seemed to work.... If I get coerced, (which seems quite likely) into the Koi, from what I've read they would actually appreciate the extra depth....what do you think? BTW if I gardened naked the colour I would go is blue - LOL Gill Why should having your pond under your trees kill your fish? Are they poisonous? Did they fall into the pond? Of course, you will get debris falling off them, and leaves in the fall, but you can always pull it out. Regular maintenance should take care of that problem. In fact, having to regularly remove debris from the pond has actually made me a better ponder, since I pay more attention to details. My pond is located partially under a neighbors' large pin oak tree (it partially grows over the fenceline and shades the part of my property where the pond is located). I have actually found it to be beneficial for the pond since it provides shade for the entire morning, so that the only time the pond is in direct sunlight (all day sun is will usually help create a real algae monster) is in the afternoon. By evening, the sun is on the other side of the house, so the pond goes back in shade. As for Koi, as I said in another post, Koi are wonderful, but can be destructive of plants when they get large. But they are a lot of fun to raise. I've raised several large species (I also have a 10 lbs albino channel catfish in the pond), and I have yet to find a large fish that I like raising better than the Koi (well, I am partial to the one big cat - he does have quite a personality). But Koi truly are remarkable fish. Here is an small movie (in .mov format) of my pond from last year: http://home.insightbb.com/~jryates/catfish_eating.MOV |
"George" wrote in message news:MmQhe.80298$r53.16454@attbi_s21... "Gill Passman" gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote in message .. . "~Roy~" wrote in message ... DUH! On Sun, 15 May 2005 15:34:51 -0500, "Reel McKoi" of mumbled something to the effect of: ===If it deep freezes where you live you would need some kind of heater to keep ===an area unfrozen - or dig below the frost line. As you know the fish will ===not survive being frozen solid. Give the folks a break. I am sure they are well aware most fish would not take kindly to being encased in a block of ice...........And you did not answer the question either. YOu can get my with most any depth, but deeper is better in the colder climes, as you can take advantage of warmer ground temps and if you install a stock tank heater you can get my with even shallower depths. Don't take it for granted if the frost level is only 2 feet your safe at 3 feet......odds are it will bite you one day. A lot of folks have kept fish in the cold climes at depths of 3 feet or less with the use of a heater in the pond, or with a shelter over the pond with a bit of heat inside.......Personally I would make it as deep as I could, and if it turns out its not quite deep enough add a heat source, or move fish indoors during winter season as a lot also do. ============================================== Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked! ~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o Moving the fish indoors is not an option - we are already over-run with tropical tanks - 6 at the last count and more planned he, he....a heater is a good option and one I have already thought of.... Our winters vary....this year was very mild down here but not in the rest of the UK where there was a big freeze. When I had a pond before I saw a good 2-3 inches of ice - used a football to provide air. Maybe if I dig down an extra couple of feet where I can without going into the soakaway this might provide additional sanctuary for the fish - and have the bulk of it 2-3 feet with a heater - what do you think? Thanks Gill You can contact your local university (a geology department) and find out how deep the frostline is (the depth at which the soil will freeze over the winter) in your area, then you should dig at least 5-6 inches to a foot below (deeper is even better) to make sure that your pond will not freeze solid during a hard winter. The frostline here is at 22 inches, so the deepest part of my pond 27"deep (but it is also 18 inches aboveground - surrounded and structural held by 6 inch x 6 inch timbers, so the total depth is 45 inches). I also use an aerator in the winter and keep my waterfall going as long as possible. When the water gets around 40 F, I keep the aewrator going, turn off the waterfall, and I use start to use a pond deicer, which works very well in keeping the worst of the ice off the surface of the pond. If you decide on raising Koi (they get large, but are a joy to raise), the aerator will be very important in the winter, especially if you turn off any circulation you may have. Koi get much larger than goldfish, and have a higher oxygen demand. Also, if you raise Koi, you really should have a filtration system. It doesn't have to be expensive, it just has to work, and preferably be easy to maintain. I hope this helps, and feel free to come back and ask more questions (and do ignore the trolls). Good luck. Thanks George, I will speak to the local Uni - my Mother works there...and btw it was this ng that taught me about killfiles - lol - have been monitoring for 3 months plus - learnt more than I ever wanted to about things I never wanted to think about....IMO the more "pond related" questions we all ask the better even if from beginners....lets flood it with fish questions.....but that is another topic.... I'm looking into filtration systems....at the moment I quite fancy the idea of including the filtration in an upper level which will eventually become a waterfall type of thing into the main pond....this will almost certainly need to be custom I think....on the majority of my large tropical tanks I have external filters with a variety of media which work very well and certainly external filtration is an option...but my thought is maybe I feed through this on the upper level, filter it there and then cascade the water down is an alternative.....now obviously the cascade will be central so on the other side I'm looking at heavily planting Gill |
"George" wrote in message news:gAQhe.80318$r53.12639@attbi_s21... "Gill Passman" gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote in message .. . "~Roy~" wrote in message ... Gill What part of the country are you in? Folks routinely get by with ponds of 2 1/2 to 3 feet deep up in Rhode Island and Pennnsylvania during winter months, and not all of them use a heater, but do maintain an opening in the ice. A simple air pump will work in most cases to keep a hole in the ice........but an external temporary shelter made out of PVC pipe framework covered in plastic sheeting does a lot of good as well. It doe snot matter if your pond is 4 feet deep and it only freezes to 3 feet the fish will still be ok..............with or without a heater. Running a heater is not cheap....... ============================================== Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked! ~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o I'm in the South East of England...I have seen frost freeze at least 18 inches of stagnent water (in a wheelbarrow). Plus I had a pond here once that was around 30inches and the ice didn't seem to kill the fish - the location did :-( ....under trees - a lesson hard learnt that has put me off for a good 5 years from trying again...this time I think we have the location right... Running a heater is not a cheap option but when we already run 6 on the tropicals I guess one more won't hurt.....I did the ball thing the first year of my original pond and it seemed to work.... If I get coerced, (which seems quite likely) into the Koi, from what I've read they would actually appreciate the extra depth....what do you think? BTW if I gardened naked the colour I would go is blue - LOL Gill Why should having your pond under your trees kill your fish? Are they poisonous? Did they fall into the pond? Of course, you will get debris falling off them, and leaves in the fall, but you can always pull it out. Regular maintenance should take care of that problem. In fact, having to regularly remove debris from the pond has actually made me a better ponder, since I pay more attention to details. My pond is located partially under a neighbors' large pin oak tree (it partially grows over the fenceline and shades the part of my property where the pond is located). I have actually found it to be beneficial for the pond since it provides shade for the entire morning, so that the only time the pond is in direct sunlight (all day sun is will usually help create a real algae monster) is in the afternoon. By evening, the sun is on the other side of the house, so the pond goes back in shade. As for Koi, as I said in another post, Koi are wonderful, but can be destructive of plants when they get large. But they are a lot of fun to raise. I've raised several large species (I also have a 10 lbs albino channel catfish in the pond), and I have yet to find a large fish that I like raising better than the Koi (well, I am partial to the one big cat - he does have quite a personality). But Koi truly are remarkable fish. Here is an small movie (in .mov format) of my pond from last year: http://home.insightbb.com/~jryates/catfish_eating.MOV The trees in question are sycamores....I spend almost a daily battle identifying them and pulling them out of my garden right now....even over 150 feet from the source....When we had the pond up there I struggled pulling out the dead leaves 2-4 times a week from the pond til it became to dark for me to do this after work......never, ever again will I put a pond up there. I know, now, that I could have done a lot more....but if there are easier places in the garden to site a pond I'm all for it.....BTW that lawn needs to go in a few years...we all hate mowing....great place for a natural pond ......lol |
"Gill Passman" gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote in message .. . "Bill Stock" wrote in message ... "Gill Passman" gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote in message .. . Hi All, After lurking on this group for a few months and a lot of research elsewhere I am almost ready to finalize the plans for our pond. We will most likely be using pond liner due to the area to be covered and the fact that it won't be completely square or rectangular. The structure will be decking panels. I will probably need to put a grid in short-term because of my 4 year old daughter. We are planning to keep fish in here - hubbie wants Koi but this is still up for debate. The pond is going to be raised around 2-3 foot above ground level. I was wondering if we need to dig below the surface at all as well? The problem is that our soakaway runs around six inches below where the end of the pond is going to be. Of course there is the possibility to dig deeper at the other end of where the pond is planned for. Any thoughts on this would be helpful - especially on the need to dig and if yes how deep? Thanks Gill I gather a soakaway is a sprinkler system? You should be able to combine all of your ideas to make this work. 1) Dig down a bit where you can. 2) Insulate the above ground part. You could use the dirt from the hole. 3) Cover (insulate) the top in winter. Since you're building this into a deck, it should be fairly simple. 4) Your heater only needs to keep the water around 39°F. This will keep your electric bills down. I only needed a 300W heater to keep my 500 gallon pond heated in the wilds of Canada. :) The heater only ran an hour or so a day. The soakaway is a very, very solid bit of clay piping that takes the water via downpipes from the roof away from the foundations of the house....it then trickles through a lot of rubble into the soil....very common in England. The pond will be above the deck level but actually covering it in winter shouldn't be too much of an issue..... OK, I was thinking it would be flush with the deck. You should still insulate the above ground portion. See RichToyBox's reply. I guess if we are going for Koi (and I'm not totally convinced as I have 6 tanks in the house to maintain) the deeper the better.... I believe Koi need 1000 gallons + 100 gallons per fish. My puddle is much too small for Koi. But really what you are saying is that if we do a decent depth and consider a heater digging should not be too much of an issue? Not quite. I would dig as much as possible, because if you dig deep enough you won't need a heater. If you do need a heater, the more pond below ground, the smaller heater you will require. Gill |
"Gill Passman" gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote in message .. . "George" wrote in message news:MmQhe.80298$r53.16454@attbi_s21... "Gill Passman" gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote in message .. . "~Roy~" wrote in message ... DUH! On Sun, 15 May 2005 15:34:51 -0500, "Reel McKoi" of mumbled something to the effect of: ===If it deep freezes where you live you would need some kind of heater to keep ===an area unfrozen - or dig below the frost line. As you know the fish will ===not survive being frozen solid. Give the folks a break. I am sure they are well aware most fish would not take kindly to being encased in a block of ice...........And you did not answer the question either. YOu can get my with most any depth, but deeper is better in the colder climes, as you can take advantage of warmer ground temps and if you install a stock tank heater you can get my with even shallower depths. Don't take it for granted if the frost level is only 2 feet your safe at 3 feet......odds are it will bite you one day. A lot of folks have kept fish in the cold climes at depths of 3 feet or less with the use of a heater in the pond, or with a shelter over the pond with a bit of heat inside.......Personally I would make it as deep as I could, and if it turns out its not quite deep enough add a heat source, or move fish indoors during winter season as a lot also do. ============================================== Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked! ~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o Moving the fish indoors is not an option - we are already over-run with tropical tanks - 6 at the last count and more planned he, he....a heater is a good option and one I have already thought of.... Our winters vary....this year was very mild down here but not in the rest of the UK where there was a big freeze. When I had a pond before I saw a good 2-3 inches of ice - used a football to provide air. Maybe if I dig down an extra couple of feet where I can without going into the soakaway this might provide additional sanctuary for the fish - and have the bulk of it 2-3 feet with a heater - what do you think? Thanks Gill You can contact your local university (a geology department) and find out how deep the frostline is (the depth at which the soil will freeze over the winter) in your area, then you should dig at least 5-6 inches to a foot below (deeper is even better) to make sure that your pond will not freeze solid during a hard winter. The frostline here is at 22 inches, so the deepest part of my pond 27"deep (but it is also 18 inches aboveground - surrounded and structural held by 6 inch x 6 inch timbers, so the total depth is 45 inches). I also use an aerator in the winter and keep my waterfall going as long as possible. When the water gets around 40 F, I keep the aewrator going, turn off the waterfall, and I use start to use a pond deicer, which works very well in keeping the worst of the ice off the surface of the pond. If you decide on raising Koi (they get large, but are a joy to raise), the aerator will be very important in the winter, especially if you turn off any circulation you may have. Koi get much larger than goldfish, and have a higher oxygen demand. Also, if you raise Koi, you really should have a filtration system. It doesn't have to be expensive, it just has to work, and preferably be easy to maintain. I hope this helps, and feel free to come back and ask more questions (and do ignore the trolls). Good luck. Thanks George, I will speak to the local Uni - my Mother works there...and btw it was this ng that taught me about killfiles - lol - have been monitoring for 3 months plus - learnt more than I ever wanted to about things I never wanted to think about....IMO the more "pond related" questions we all ask the better even if from beginners....lets flood it with fish questions.....but that is another topic.... I'm looking into filtration systems....at the moment I quite fancy the idea of including the filtration in an upper level which will eventually become a waterfall type of thing into the main pond....this will almost certainly need to be custom I think....on the majority of my large tropical tanks I have external filters with a variety of media which work very well and certainly external filtration is an option...but my thought is maybe I feed through this on the upper level, filter it there and then cascade the water down is an alternative.....now obviously the cascade will be central so on the other side I'm looking at heavily planting Gill If your filter is above the main pond, and you are pumping water from the main pond to the filter (positive pressure) and letting it cascade back into the main pond, please remember to build some kind of spillway to prevent overflow in case the filter gets clogged. I can't stress this enough. And then there is the problem of preventing the pump from getting glogged. I worked around this problem (and since I had a limited area to begin with, I really didn't have a choice). What I did was to build the filter into the main pond at one end (below water level). Then I surrounded it with rocks, and built them up to a level above the filter (in fact, out of the water altogether) to create a waterfall. In other words, my waterfall comes out of the pond at one end. The filter is submerged beneath it. Oh, but how do you clean it, you may ask? The answer is that I don't. At least, only rarely, and then, only by backflushing with a garden hose, which takes about 2 minutes. The filter is a biological filter, and it has a pre-filter which sits at the bottom of the pond. The pre-filter catches most of the suspended solids in the water, so it is mostly a mechanical filter, although it does do some biological filtration as well. I clean it out about every 2-4 weeks. It takes about five minutes to clean. I have a marine aquarium, and frankly I'd rather clean the pond than clean it. That leaves primarily cleaned water (but still disolved nutrient-laden) that goes into the main filter, which is an old jacuzzi filter that I converted for this purpose. It is half full of coarse gravel (about 50 lbs). The water enters from a hose connected from the pre-filter to the main filter at the bottom. Then the water flows through a basket strainer, and then the gravel (which is where the beneficial microbes live) and up to the pump above the gravel. The water then exits the filter at the top and flows into a three gallon decorative clay pot full of porous lava rock, which has holes about halfway up. The water flows through the lava rock and over it, and out of the holes, then over the waterfall and back into the pond (this is a new addition that isn't shown on the web link, below). You can adapt this method (called the suction method, as opposed to postive pressure, which you would have if you simply place the pump in the bottom of the pond and pumped the water into a filter above the level of the pond) by simply using a different container. I've used a 20-gallon plastic sealable new (never used) chemical drum on my sister's pond with great results. In her case, the pond was concrete and was already built, so I dug a hole next to the pond, behind the waterfall, and placed the filter below ground there, with only the cover showing (which was hidden with potted plants). The top of the lid had a valve that could be used to backflush the filter by connecting a water hose to it. I then dug a trench from the pond to the filter. I drilled a hole into the concrete about a 15 inches below the water line (after lowering the water level, of course), and installed a sealable bulkhead fitting through the hole. I sealed the hole with hydraulic cement, and placed bentonite around the outside of the hole to prevent leaks. Then I ran piping from the bulkhead to the filter, and connected a flexible hose to the bulkhead on the inside (the hose had a basket strainer on its other end), and ran it to a milkcrate which sat on the bottom, on which the strainer sat. This way, the water in the piping/hose always stays below the surface water level and the system never loses its prime. It only cost about $30 to make (not including the pump). This setup didn't have a pre-filter, and my sister ended up backflushing a lot more often than I ever do, which is rarely. Another alternative would be to create a veggie pond above your main pond and let the water from that cascade down in a waterfall to the main pond. Veggies seem to have less problems with clogging, but I really don't have a lot of experience with them. My plants are in the pond itself. Others here in this forum are more experienced with veggie filters, so if you are interested, you could ask about them, and someone will likely tell you more about them than I can. I understand that they work very well, and are quite attractive. There are lots of possibilities. My experience is that if you pre-filter the water before you send it to your main filter (whatever that may be), you will have better results, and make cleaning a lot easier, since all you have to do is fish the pre-filter out of the bottom with a coathanger and rinse it out, using the sludge for fertilizer for your lawn plants. They will thank you for the effort. Oh, and whatever you do, it is always best not to set the pre-filter inlet right on the bottom. You don't want it getting clogged with leaves or sludge from the bottom. Always place the inlet a few inches off the bottom. My pre-filter has the inlet on its top (about a foot off the bottom). Here are some details on the filtration system I use: http://home.insightbb.com/~jryates/filter.htm Good luck. |
"Gill Passman" gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote in message .. . "Bill Stock" wrote in message ... "Gill Passman" gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote in message .. . Hi All, After lurking on this group for a few months and a lot of research elsewhere I am almost ready to finalize the plans for our pond. We will most likely be using pond liner due to the area to be covered and the fact that it won't be completely square or rectangular. The structure will be decking panels. I will probably need to put a grid in short-term because of my 4 year old daughter. We are planning to keep fish in here - hubbie wants Koi but this is still up for debate. The pond is going to be raised around 2-3 foot above ground level. I was wondering if we need to dig below the surface at all as well? The problem is that our soakaway runs around six inches below where the end of the pond is going to be. Of course there is the possibility to dig deeper at the other end of where the pond is planned for. Any thoughts on this would be helpful - especially on the need to dig and if yes how deep? Thanks Gill I gather a soakaway is a sprinkler system? You should be able to combine all of your ideas to make this work. 1) Dig down a bit where you can. 2) Insulate the above ground part. You could use the dirt from the hole. 3) Cover (insulate) the top in winter. Since you're building this into a deck, it should be fairly simple. 4) Your heater only needs to keep the water around 39°F. This will keep your electric bills down. I only needed a 300W heater to keep my 500 gallon pond heated in the wilds of Canada. :) The heater only ran an hour or so a day. The soakaway is a very, very solid bit of clay piping that takes the water via downpipes from the roof away from the foundations of the house....it then trickles through a lot of rubble into the soil....very common in England. So it is a kind of French drain (and English drain?). Ok, that makes sense. The pond will be above the deck level but actually covering it in winter shouldn't be too much of an issue..... I guess if we are going for Koi (and I'm not totally convinced as I have 6 tanks in the house to maintain) the deeper the better.... But really what you are saying is that if we do a decent depth and consider a heater digging should not be too much of an issue? Gill Exactly so. |
"RichToyBox" wrote in message ... For the part of the pond that is above ground, it would be a good idea to use a styrofoam or similar insulation board to help the pond retain as much heat as possible. Do not insulate under the bottom, as heat will come up through the soil to help keep the pond critters at about 4C, 40F. The exposed sides will carry heat away quicker than a submerged pond, but insulated, it should be doable. -- RichToyBox http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html I agree. I didn't insulate mine, but the walls aboveground are 6" x 6" tightly fitting timbers, which provide some insulation. The pond is also sheltered from the wind by a 6 feet tall wooden fence for its entire length. Nonetheless, where I live can ocasionally have nasty winters, and I know that without the de-icer I might have trouble some day. Thanks Rich. Now I've got a retro to do some day! |
"Gill Passman" gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote in message .. . "George" wrote in message news:gAQhe.80318$r53.12639@attbi_s21... "Gill Passman" gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote in message .. . "~Roy~" wrote in message ... Gill What part of the country are you in? Folks routinely get by with ponds of 2 1/2 to 3 feet deep up in Rhode Island and Pennnsylvania during winter months, and not all of them use a heater, but do maintain an opening in the ice. A simple air pump will work in most cases to keep a hole in the ice........but an external temporary shelter made out of PVC pipe framework covered in plastic sheeting does a lot of good as well. It doe snot matter if your pond is 4 feet deep and it only freezes to 3 feet the fish will still be ok..............with or without a heater. Running a heater is not cheap....... ============================================== Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked! ~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o I'm in the South East of England...I have seen frost freeze at least 18 inches of stagnent water (in a wheelbarrow). Plus I had a pond here once that was around 30inches and the ice didn't seem to kill the fish - the location did :-( ....under trees - a lesson hard learnt that has put me off for a good 5 years from trying again...this time I think we have the location right... Running a heater is not a cheap option but when we already run 6 on the tropicals I guess one more won't hurt.....I did the ball thing the first year of my original pond and it seemed to work.... If I get coerced, (which seems quite likely) into the Koi, from what I've read they would actually appreciate the extra depth....what do you think? BTW if I gardened naked the colour I would go is blue - LOL Gill Why should having your pond under your trees kill your fish? Are they poisonous? Did they fall into the pond? Of course, you will get debris falling off them, and leaves in the fall, but you can always pull it out. Regular maintenance should take care of that problem. In fact, having to regularly remove debris from the pond has actually made me a better ponder, since I pay more attention to details. My pond is located partially under a neighbors' large pin oak tree (it partially grows over the fenceline and shades the part of my property where the pond is located). I have actually found it to be beneficial for the pond since it provides shade for the entire morning, so that the only time the pond is in direct sunlight (all day sun is will usually help create a real algae monster) is in the afternoon. By evening, the sun is on the other side of the house, so the pond goes back in shade. As for Koi, as I said in another post, Koi are wonderful, but can be destructive of plants when they get large. But they are a lot of fun to raise. I've raised several large species (I also have a 10 lbs albino channel catfish in the pond), and I have yet to find a large fish that I like raising better than the Koi (well, I am partial to the one big cat - he does have quite a personality). But Koi truly are remarkable fish. Here is an small movie (in .mov format) of my pond from last year: http://home.insightbb.com/~jryates/catfish_eating.MOV The trees in question are sycamores....I spend almost a daily battle identifying them and pulling them out of my garden right now....even over 150 feet from the source....When we had the pond up there I struggled pulling out the dead leaves 2-4 times a week from the pond til it became to dark for me to do this after work......never, ever again will I put a pond up there. That makes sense. I don't like sycamores either. They look good in the woods, but in the yard? Forget it. I know, now, that I could have done a lot more....but if there are easier places in the garden to site a pond I'm all for it.....BTW that lawn needs to go in a few years...we all hate mowing....great place for a natural pond .....lol I hear you. I have a half an acre, and I've been slowly adding plantings every year to fill it up. I hate to mow as well. In fact... |
Gill Passman Wrote: Hi All, After lurking on this group for a few months and a lot of research elsewhere I am almost ready to finalize the plans for our pond. We will most likely be using pond liner due to the area to be covered and the fact that it won't be completely square or rectangular. The structure will be decking panels. I will probably need to put a grid in short-term because of my 4 year old daughter. We are planning to keep fish in here - hubbie wants Koi but this is still up for debate. The pond is going to be raised around 2-3 foot above ground level. I was wondering if we need to dig below the surface at all as well? The problem is that our soakaway runs around six inches below where the end of the pond is going to be. Of course there is the possibility to dig deeper at the other end of where the pond is planned for. Any thoughts on this would be helpful - especially on the need to dig and if yes how deep? Thanks Gill To determine if you should have an above ground, below ground or a below ground pond with raised ledges depends on your climate and your preferences. A below ground pond is well insulated by the soil, versus an above ground which is not. Are you going to keep fish? If so and you will have freezing weather then you will have to take them inside to overwinter them. A raised pond is easier to build and not all that dirt to move. But a below ground pond that is at least 3 feet will tolerate freezing weather, and will be cooler in hot weaher. You can easily overwinter fish and many plants in a dug pond that is 3 feet. Digging a pond is hard work and very dirty. But the results are worth it. I would not like to take my fish inside for the winter- I have a Koi who is 30 inches and a couple others over 24". They overwinter in zone 6a with only a small pump going. Good luck and happy ponding. I suggest you go above ground and shallow and build deeper an bigger when your child is older. Also situate your pond in an area with good drainage. Water under the liner, under the ledges will undermine your pond walls. -- Koitoy |
On Mon, 16 May 2005 "Gill Passman" wrote:
I'm looking into filtration systems.... snip Gill Hi Gill, Do take a look at mine. :-) Click on *My Filter*. ~ jan See my ponds and filter design: www.jjspond.us ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website |
I'm not an expert at this, but in my case building my pond took three
years. Year one after moving into the "New House" my wife and I built a retaining wall out of limestone rock and concrete and let that sit a year. Year two saw us backfilling the wall, along with trying to compact the soil. After which we let it sit for a winter before we dug the pond out in year three. The whole project is still in the works (you can view it at wwww.shadowsfall.org )but has been going for a couple of years now. We live in the Sierra Foothills at 2100' about 60 miles north of Yosemite and the Koi over winter very well. Someday when I don't have to build a pond on a budget I'll rip it out and do it over but as it is, it provides water for the dog, cats, birds, frogs (I hear them right now) and dragonflys, a place for the kids (4, 7 and 9) to catch polywogs (I make them practace "Catch and Release with them), and the sound of falling water. Ted Molon Labe On Sun, 15 May 2005 19:26:28 +0100, Gill Passman wrote: Hi All, After lurking on this group for a few months and a lot of research elsewhere I am almost ready to finalize the plans for our pond. We will most likely be using pond liner due to the area to be covered and the fact that it won't be completely square or rectangular. The structure will be decking panels. I will probably need to put a grid in short-term because of my 4 year old daughter. We are planning to keep fish in here - hubbie wants Koi but this is still up for debate. The pond is going to be raised around 2-3 foot above ground level. I was wondering if we need to dig below the surface at all as well? The problem is that our soakaway runs around six inches below where the end of the pond is going to be. Of course there is the possibility to dig deeper at the other end of where the pond is planned for. Any thoughts on this would be helpful - especially on the need to dig and if yes how deep? Thanks Gill |
Gill Passman wrote:
Hi All, After lurking on this group for a few months and a lot of research elsewhere I am almost ready to finalize the plans for our pond. Not exactly sure from you description what you have in mind. Be careful if you are putting treated decking close to your pond. The runoff from the decking can be very poisonous to fish. |
George wrote:
Another alternative would be to create a veggie pond above your main pond and let the water from that cascade down in a waterfall to the main pond. Veggies seem to have less problems with clogging, but I really don't have a lot of experience with them. My plants are in the pond itself. Others here in this forum are more experienced with veggie filters, so if you are interested, you could ask about them, and someone will likely tell you more about them than I can. I understand that they work very well, and are quite attractive. On the subject of veggie filter plants I am really happy with using WaterCest (I expect it would do well in an english climate). It grows well in the top of my filter growing roots down around the river stones as the water wells up then spills off to the side to form the water fall. I originally used water hyacines but the Crest tolerates the shade conditions of my pond much better (added bonus you can eat it!). My "starter plants" was simply a small bunch of WaterCrest from the local grocer. It is happy to root in flowing water and comes back year after year tolerating the mild freezing we get in our winters in BC. |
"Greg Cooper" wrote in message news:DrZhe.118882$3V3.9528@edtnps89... George wrote: Another alternative would be to create a veggie pond above your main pond and let the water from that cascade down in a waterfall to the main pond. Veggies seem to have less problems with clogging, but I really don't have a lot of experience with them. My plants are in the pond itself. Others here in this forum are more experienced with veggie filters, so if you are interested, you could ask about them, and someone will likely tell you more about them than I can. I understand that they work very well, and are quite attractive. On the subject of veggie filter plants I am really happy with using WaterCest (I expect it would do well in an english climate). It grows well in the top of my filter growing roots down around the river stones as the water wells up then spills off to the side to form the water fall. I originally used water hyacines but the Crest tolerates the shade conditions of my pond much better (added bonus you can eat it!). My "starter plants" was simply a small bunch of WaterCrest from the local grocer. It is happy to root in flowing water and comes back year after year tolerating the mild freezing we get in our winters in BC. Like the sound of the Watercress....I'll be doing some research on Veggie filters I think. Thanks |
"Greg Cooper" wrote in message news:78Zhe.64445$HR1.17483@clgrps12... Gill Passman wrote: Hi All, After lurking on this group for a few months and a lot of research elsewhere I am almost ready to finalize the plans for our pond. Not exactly sure from you description what you have in mind. Be careful if you are putting treated decking close to your pond. The runoff from the decking can be very poisonous to fish. It was more the outer cladding that was going to be decking material so that it fits in with the character of that part of the garden - another option would be railway sleepers but these seep resin as well. The pond itself would be raised above the level of the decking so there would be no run off from the deck itself. Not quite sure what to "top it off" with as most timber would be treated in some way or another.....having a think on that one. |
"George" wrote in message news:QBRhe.81541$NU4.58521@attbi_s22... "Gill Passman" gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote in message .. . "George" wrote in message news:MmQhe.80298$r53.16454@attbi_s21... "Gill Passman" gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote in message .. . "~Roy~" wrote in message ... DUH! On Sun, 15 May 2005 15:34:51 -0500, "Reel McKoi" of mumbled something to the effect of: ===If it deep freezes where you live you would need some kind of heater to keep ===an area unfrozen - or dig below the frost line. As you know the fish will ===not survive being frozen solid. Give the folks a break. I am sure they are well aware most fish would not take kindly to being encased in a block of ice...........And you did not answer the question either. YOu can get my with most any depth, but deeper is better in the colder climes, as you can take advantage of warmer ground temps and if you install a stock tank heater you can get my with even shallower depths. Don't take it for granted if the frost level is only 2 feet your safe at 3 feet......odds are it will bite you one day. A lot of folks have kept fish in the cold climes at depths of 3 feet or less with the use of a heater in the pond, or with a shelter over the pond with a bit of heat inside.......Personally I would make it as deep as I could, and if it turns out its not quite deep enough add a heat source, or move fish indoors during winter season as a lot also do. ============================================== Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked! ~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o Moving the fish indoors is not an option - we are already over-run with tropical tanks - 6 at the last count and more planned he, he....a heater is a good option and one I have already thought of.... Our winters vary....this year was very mild down here but not in the rest of the UK where there was a big freeze. When I had a pond before I saw a good 2-3 inches of ice - used a football to provide air. Maybe if I dig down an extra couple of feet where I can without going into the soakaway this might provide additional sanctuary for the fish - and have the bulk of it 2-3 feet with a heater - what do you think? Thanks Gill You can contact your local university (a geology department) and find out how deep the frostline is (the depth at which the soil will freeze over the winter) in your area, then you should dig at least 5-6 inches to a foot below (deeper is even better) to make sure that your pond will not freeze solid during a hard winter. The frostline here is at 22 inches, so the deepest part of my pond 27"deep (but it is also 18 inches aboveground - surrounded and structural held by 6 inch x 6 inch timbers, so the total depth is 45 inches). I also use an aerator in the winter and keep my waterfall going as long as possible. When the water gets around 40 F, I keep the aewrator going, turn off the waterfall, and I use start to use a pond deicer, which works very well in keeping the worst of the ice off the surface of the pond. If you decide on raising Koi (they get large, but are a joy to raise), the aerator will be very important in the winter, especially if you turn off any circulation you may have. Koi get much larger than goldfish, and have a higher oxygen demand. Also, if you raise Koi, you really should have a filtration system. It doesn't have to be expensive, it just has to work, and preferably be easy to maintain. I hope this helps, and feel free to come back and ask more questions (and do ignore the trolls). Good luck. Thanks George, I will speak to the local Uni - my Mother works there...and btw it was this ng that taught me about killfiles - lol - have been monitoring for 3 months plus - learnt more than I ever wanted to about things I never wanted to think about....IMO the more "pond related" questions we all ask the better even if from beginners....lets flood it with fish questions.....but that is another topic.... I'm looking into filtration systems....at the moment I quite fancy the idea of including the filtration in an upper level which will eventually become a waterfall type of thing into the main pond....this will almost certainly need to be custom I think....on the majority of my large tropical tanks I have external filters with a variety of media which work very well and certainly external filtration is an option...but my thought is maybe I feed through this on the upper level, filter it there and then cascade the water down is an alternative.....now obviously the cascade will be central so on the other side I'm looking at heavily planting Gill If your filter is above the main pond, and you are pumping water from the main pond to the filter (positive pressure) and letting it cascade back into the main pond, please remember to build some kind of spillway to prevent overflow in case the filter gets clogged. I can't stress this enough. And then there is the problem of preventing the pump from getting glogged. I worked around this problem (and since I had a limited area to begin with, I really didn't have a choice). What I did was to build the filter into the main pond at one end (below water level). Then I surrounded it with rocks, and built them up to a level above the filter (in fact, out of the water altogether) to create a waterfall. In other words, my waterfall comes out of the pond at one end. The filter is submerged beneath it. Oh, but how do you clean it, you may ask? The answer is that I don't. At least, only rarely, and then, only by backflushing with a garden hose, which takes about 2 minutes. The filter is a biological filter, and it has a pre-filter which sits at the bottom of the pond. The pre-filter catches most of the suspended solids in the water, so it is mostly a mechanical filter, although it does do some biological filtration as well. I clean it out about every 2-4 weeks. It takes about five minutes to clean. I have a marine aquarium, and frankly I'd rather clean the pond than clean it. That leaves primarily cleaned water (but still disolved nutrient-laden) that goes into the main filter, which is an old jacuzzi filter that I converted for this purpose. It is half full of coarse gravel (about 50 lbs). The water enters from a hose connected from the pre-filter to the main filter at the bottom. Then the water flows through a basket strainer, and then the gravel (which is where the beneficial microbes live) and up to the pump above the gravel. The water then exits the filter at the top and flows into a three gallon decorative clay pot full of porous lava rock, which has holes about halfway up. The water flows through the lava rock and over it, and out of the holes, then over the waterfall and back into the pond (this is a new addition that isn't shown on the web link, below). You can adapt this method (called the suction method, as opposed to postive pressure, which you would have if you simply place the pump in the bottom of the pond and pumped the water into a filter above the level of the pond) by simply using a different container. I've used a 20-gallon plastic sealable new (never used) chemical drum on my sister's pond with great results. In her case, the pond was concrete and was already built, so I dug a hole next to the pond, behind the waterfall, and placed the filter below ground there, with only the cover showing (which was hidden with potted plants). The top of the lid had a valve that could be used to backflush the filter by connecting a water hose to it. I then dug a trench from the pond to the filter. I drilled a hole into the concrete about a 15 inches below the water line (after lowering the water level, of course), and installed a sealable bulkhead fitting through the hole. I sealed the hole with hydraulic cement, and placed bentonite around the outside of the hole to prevent leaks. Then I ran piping from the bulkhead to the filter, and connected a flexible hose to the bulkhead on the inside (the hose had a basket strainer on its other end), and ran it to a milkcrate which sat on the bottom, on which the strainer sat. This way, the water in the piping/hose always stays below the surface water level and the system never loses its prime. It only cost about $30 to make (not including the pump). This setup didn't have a pre-filter, and my sister ended up backflushing a lot more often than I ever do, which is rarely. Another alternative would be to create a veggie pond above your main pond and let the water from that cascade down in a waterfall to the main pond. Veggies seem to have less problems with clogging, but I really don't have a lot of experience with them. My plants are in the pond itself. Others here in this forum are more experienced with veggie filters, so if you are interested, you could ask about them, and someone will likely tell you more about them than I can. I understand that they work very well, and are quite attractive. There are lots of possibilities. My experience is that if you pre-filter the water before you send it to your main filter (whatever that may be), you will have better results, and make cleaning a lot easier, since all you have to do is fish the pre-filter out of the bottom with a coathanger and rinse it out, using the sludge for fertilizer for your lawn plants. They will thank you for the effort. Oh, and whatever you do, it is always best not to set the pre-filter inlet right on the bottom. You don't want it getting clogged with leaves or sludge from the bottom. Always place the inlet a few inches off the bottom. My pre-filter has the inlet on its top (about a foot off the bottom). Here are some details on the filtration system I use: http://home.insightbb.com/~jryates/filter.htm Good luck. Thanks for that posting ;-) A lot of stuff in there for me to consider. Actually I hadn't thought about the feed to the upper level getting blocked.....Maybe I should just plant it out to give a little extra filtration prior to the water going down to the lower level. Been out with a tape measure today and we certainly have space for hiding some external canisters. Had a look at your filter system and Jan's. More info to digest.... BTW I like the pond - very similar in style to the sort of thing we are thinking about..... Thanks again Gill |
"Gill Passman" gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote in message .. . "Greg Cooper" wrote in message news:DrZhe.118882$3V3.9528@edtnps89... George wrote: Another alternative would be to create a veggie pond above your main pond and let the water from that cascade down in a waterfall to the main pond. Veggies seem to have less problems with clogging, but I really don't have a lot of experience with them. My plants are in the pond itself. Others here in this forum are more experienced with veggie filters, so if you are interested, you could ask about them, and someone will likely tell you more about them than I can. I understand that they work very well, and are quite attractive. On the subject of veggie filter plants I am really happy with using WaterCest (I expect it would do well in an english climate). It grows well in the top of my filter growing roots down around the river stones as the water wells up then spills off to the side to form the water fall. I originally used water hyacines but the Crest tolerates the shade conditions of my pond much better (added bonus you can eat it!). My "starter plants" was simply a small bunch of WaterCrest from the local grocer. It is happy to root in flowing water and comes back year after year tolerating the mild freezing we get in our winters in BC. Like the sound of the Watercress....I'll be doing some research on Veggie filters I think. Thanks |
The whole project is still in the works (you can view it at
www.shadowsfall.org )but has been going for a couple of years now. Really nice Ted. ~ jan :-) ~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~ |
"Gill Passman" gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote in message .. . Thanks for that posting ;-) A lot of stuff in there for me to consider. Actually I hadn't thought about the feed to the upper level getting blocked.....Maybe I should just plant it out to give a little extra filtration prior to the water going down to the lower level. Been out with a tape measure today and we certainly have space for hiding some external canisters. Had a look at your filter system and Jan's. More info to digest.... BTW I like the pond - very similar in style to the sort of thing we are thinking about..... Thanks again Gill Sure. No problem. |
Try http://www.koicymru.co.uk/ for some in depth discussion of Koi
keeping in the UK. Personally I find the whole business of koi keeping more than a little over the top and would rather stick with comets and shubumkins, but I guess its a matter of personal taste. Peter Gill Passman wrote: Hi All, After lurking on this group for a few months and a lot of research elsewhere I am almost ready to finalize the plans for our pond. We will most likely be using pond liner due to the area to be covered and the fact that it won't be completely square or rectangular. The structure will be decking panels. I will probably need to put a grid in short-term because of my 4 year old daughter. We are planning to keep fish in here - hubbie wants Koi but this is still up for debate. The pond is going to be raised around 2-3 foot above ground level. I was wondering if we need to dig below the surface at all as well? The problem is that our soakaway runs around six inches below where the end of the pond is going to be. Of course there is the possibility to dig deeper at the other end of where the pond is planned for. Any thoughts on this would be helpful - especially on the need to dig and if yes how deep? Thanks Gill |
"Peter Breed" wrote in message ... Try http://www.koicymru.co.uk/ for some in depth discussion of Koi keeping in the UK. Personally I find the whole business of koi keeping more than a little over the top and would rather stick with comets and shubumkins, but I guess its a matter of personal taste. Peter Gill Passman wrote: Hi All, After lurking on this group for a few months and a lot of research elsewhere I am almost ready to finalize the plans for our pond. We will most likely be using pond liner due to the area to be covered and the fact that it won't be completely square or rectangular. The structure will be decking panels. I will probably need to put a grid in short-term because of my 4 year old daughter. We are planning to keep fish in here - hubbie wants Koi but this is still up for debate. The pond is going to be raised around 2-3 foot above ground level. I was wondering if we need to dig below the surface at all as well? The problem is that our soakaway runs around six inches below where the end of the pond is going to be. Of course there is the possibility to dig deeper at the other end of where the pond is planned for. Any thoughts on this would be helpful - especially on the need to dig and if yes how deep? Thanks Gill Actually the more I read into it the more I'm inclined to agree with you.... |
"Courageous" wrote in message ... How many gallons (cubic feet * 7.3) do you estimate for your pond? The pond is going to be raised around 2-3 foot above ground level. Are you going to create a 2-3 foot embankment? If not, what will you do to make the walls of the pond hold all that weight? Concrete walls? Something else? I was wondering if we need to dig below the surface at all as well? No, not at all. But given the above, you might do better with a compromise of some sort. Stand up. Look at your hip. That's probably about 3'. Do you want a burm or wall /that/ big? If so, whatcha planning? While no one thing is "essential" in pond building, your life will be a lot easier with a sumped bottom drain feeding to some kind of settling tank (designed to be periodically purged), especially if your pond is large. The function here is to make the settling tank the main thing you clean, and not your pond. As a lurker, I will assume you know about "veggie filters", "bog filters" (of both the up well and down well variety). Try "bog filter" on google and "veggie filter" on google groups (rec.ponds) to read various statements about each of these. When you dig, you might consider laying down a bit of extra plumbing at some locations if you think you miight want to add something later. A little preplanning will allow you to change your mind less painfully later. :) C// Thanks... I've been out measuring this week in the planned location and visualising again. It's going to be between 1000-1500 galls. The deck that it will butt up against is raised around 6 inches above ground level. There definitely needs to be some digging to get the required depth as otherwise it would most certainly be too high.... The plan is to build a breeze block structure and then clad it in wood.....I'm not sure that I can get pre-formed to fit the planned shape but I will be looking into this....of course liner would be a lot cheaper. I'm very much interested in the Veggie filter as an addition to more conventional filtration....plus I do like eating watercress :-) This pond is still very much in the planning stages and subject to change so any input is very gratefully appreciated. Gill |
How many gallons (cubic feet * 7.3) do you estimate for your pond? The pond is going to be raised around 2-3 foot above ground level. Are you going to create a 2-3 foot embankment? If not, what will you do to make the walls of the pond hold all that weight? Concrete walls? Something else? I was wondering if we need to dig below the surface at all as well? No, not at all. But given the above, you might do better with a compromise of some sort. Stand up. Look at your hip. That's probably about 3'. Do you want a burm or wall /that/ big? If so, whatcha planning? While no one thing is "essential" in pond building, your life will be a lot easier with a sumped bottom drain feeding to some kind of settling tank (designed to be periodically purged), especially if your pond is large. The function here is to make the settling tank the main thing you clean, and not your pond. As a lurker, I will assume you know about "veggie filters", "bog filters" (of both the up well and down well variety). Try "bog filter" on google and "veggie filter" on google groups (rec.ponds) to read various statements about each of these. When you dig, you might consider laying down a bit of extra plumbing at some locations if you think you miight want to add something later. A little preplanning will allow you to change your mind less painfully later. :) C// |
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