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Storing ocean water
If I were to go to a beach and get salt water, how long could I store it
for and how should it be stored? I can probably get around 800 litres in one trip (2 1/2 hours each way) but the water would then be in 200 litre (44gallon) drums with only a small opening in the top. It's really not practical to go that far for just one drum of water and hubby's ute is not comfy and airconditioned and it's summer here. Would the water go off? |
Storing ocean water
You can store any salt water as long as you want. It won't
go bad. The only exception is that water taken from the ocean will have some plankton in it, and that will dye, and effect the water. Also you don't want to get poluted water. Wayne Sallee Wayne's Pets miskairal wrote on 1/9/2006 4:51 PM: If I were to go to a beach and get salt water, how long could I store it for and how should it be stored? I can probably get around 800 litres in one trip (2 1/2 hours each way) but the water would then be in 200 litre (44gallon) drums with only a small opening in the top. It's really not practical to go that far for just one drum of water and hubby's ute is not comfy and airconditioned and it's summer here. Would the water go off? |
Storing ocean water
For a long long time.....However natural sewater you get from the
ocean will have a lot of undesirebale stuff in it which may create more problems later on. As posted make sure it does not have any polutants in it..pretty hard to verify that, and of course any organic material will start decomposing. If you decide to do it, I would keep it as cool as possible, in a dark container out of sunlight, and keep it aerated with a powerhead. Unless you use a large airstone they are not too effective or not as effective as usuing a powerhead to keep it agitated and aerated.....To be honest there is not a lot of foks in any of the forums I visit that thinks usuing naturally collected seawater to be a good thing mainly due to polutants and other undesireables like algae etc. On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 07:51:57 +1000, miskairal mehiding@Oz wrote: If I were to go to a beach and get salt water, how long could I store it for and how should it be stored? I can probably get around 800 litres in one trip (2 1/2 hours each way) but the water would then be in 200 litre (44gallon) drums with only a small opening in the top. It's really not practical to go that far for just one drum of water and hubby's ute is not comfy and airconditioned and it's summer here. Would the water go off? -- \\\|/// ( @ @ ) -----------oOOo(_)oOOo--------------- oooO ---------( )----Oooo---------------- \ ( ( ) \_) ) / (_/ The original frugal ponder! Koi-ahoi mates.... |
Storing ocean water
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Storing ocean water
While I am far from an expert on the subject of storing salt water,
I have to say your about the only one that has taken the view of no aeration being needed. From all the LFS and the multitudes of reef and fish keepers on all the web based forums, they all seem to agree it does need aeration..Just let a bucket of salt water set even if covered, and in a short time it starts to smell pretty rank and stale. Not that I dissagree as everyone has their own acceptable methods and proceedures, but just thought I would point this out. On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 01:46:15 GMT, Wayne Sallee wrote: When storing water for a long time it does not need to be kept circulated, or airated. Wayne Sallee Wayne's Pets Roy wrote on 1/9/2006 6:57 PM: For a long long time.....However natural sewater you get from the ocean will have a lot of undesirebale stuff in it which may create more problems later on. As posted make sure it does not have any polutants in it..pretty hard to verify that, and of course any organic material will start decomposing. If you decide to do it, I would keep it as cool as possible, in a dark container out of sunlight, and keep it aerated with a powerhead. Unless you use a large airstone they are not too effective or not as effective as usuing a powerhead to keep it agitated and aerated.....To be honest there is not a lot of foks in any of the forums I visit that thinks usuing naturally collected seawater to be a good thing mainly due to polutants and other undesireables like algae etc. On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 07:51:57 +1000, miskairal mehiding@Oz wrote: If I were to go to a beach and get salt water, how long could I store it for and how should it be stored? I can probably get around 800 litres in one trip (2 1/2 hours each way) but the water would then be in 200 litre (44gallon) drums with only a small opening in the top. It's really not practical to go that far for just one drum of water and hubby's ute is not comfy and airconditioned and it's summer here. Would the water go off? -- \\\|/// ( @ @ ) -----------oOOo(_)oOOo--------------- oooO ---------( )----Oooo---------------- \ ( ( ) \_) ) / (_/ The original frugal ponder! Koi-ahoi mates.... |
Storing ocean water
Roy you are absolutely correct.I have Been working with salt over 20 years
and have dumped many vats of salt water for sitting too long not being circulated or airated. "Roy" wrote in message ... While I am far from an expert on the subject of storing salt water, I have to say your about the only one that has taken the view of no aeration being needed. From all the LFS and the multitudes of reef and fish keepers on all the web based forums, they all seem to agree it does need aeration..Just let a bucket of salt water set even if covered, and in a short time it starts to smell pretty rank and stale. Not that I dissagree as everyone has their own acceptable methods and proceedures, but just thought I would point this out. On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 01:46:15 GMT, Wayne Sallee wrote: When storing water for a long time it does not need to be kept circulated, or airated. Wayne Sallee Wayne's Pets Roy wrote on 1/9/2006 6:57 PM: For a long long time.....However natural sewater you get from the ocean will have a lot of undesirebale stuff in it which may create more problems later on. As posted make sure it does not have any polutants in it..pretty hard to verify that, and of course any organic material will start decomposing. If you decide to do it, I would keep it as cool as possible, in a dark container out of sunlight, and keep it aerated with a powerhead. Unless you use a large airstone they are not too effective or not as effective as usuing a powerhead to keep it agitated and aerated.....To be honest there is not a lot of foks in any of the forums I visit that thinks usuing naturally collected seawater to be a good thing mainly due to polutants and other undesireables like algae etc. On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 07:51:57 +1000, miskairal mehiding@Oz wrote: If I were to go to a beach and get salt water, how long could I store it for and how should it be stored? I can probably get around 800 litres in one trip (2 1/2 hours each way) but the water would then be in 200 litre (44gallon) drums with only a small opening in the top. It's really not practical to go that far for just one drum of water and hubby's ute is not comfy and airconditioned and it's summer here. Would the water go off? -- \\\|/// ( @ @ ) -----------oOOo(_)oOOo--------------- oooO ---------( )----Oooo---------------- \ ( ( ) \_) ) / (_/ The original frugal ponder! Koi-ahoi mates.... |
Storing ocean water
|
Storing ocean water
Wao, at least someone makes sense.
A few people here just because they canīt see anything in the water they think is inorganic. Well, someone ought to tell them that ocean water is a living ecosystems. It has producers, hervibores and carnivores in it. If it doesn't have light and O2 it will die and decompose, then anaerobic reactions take place and it becomes septic thus smelly! Phostphate and Nitrogen levels keep rising and it will be toxic in no time. Well, that is Organic Chemistry 101... jrs "BriMc" wrote in message ... Roy you are absolutely correct.I have Been working with salt over 20 years and have dumped many vats of salt water for sitting too long not being circulated or airated. "Roy" wrote in message ... While I am far from an expert on the subject of storing salt water, I have to say your about the only one that has taken the view of no aeration being needed. From all the LFS and the multitudes of reef and fish keepers on all the web based forums, they all seem to agree it does need aeration..Just let a bucket of salt water set even if covered, and in a short time it starts to smell pretty rank and stale. Not that I dissagree as everyone has their own acceptable methods and proceedures, but just thought I would point this out. On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 01:46:15 GMT, Wayne Sallee wrote: When storing water for a long time it does not need to be kept circulated, or airated. Wayne Sallee Wayne's Pets Roy wrote on 1/9/2006 6:57 PM: For a long long time.....However natural sewater you get from the ocean will have a lot of undesirebale stuff in it which may create more problems later on. As posted make sure it does not have any polutants in it..pretty hard to verify that, and of course any organic material will start decomposing. If you decide to do it, I would keep it as cool as possible, in a dark container out of sunlight, and keep it aerated with a powerhead. Unless you use a large airstone they are not too effective or not as effective as usuing a powerhead to keep it agitated and aerated.....To be honest there is not a lot of foks in any of the forums I visit that thinks usuing naturally collected seawater to be a good thing mainly due to polutants and other undesireables like algae etc. On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 07:51:57 +1000, miskairal mehiding@Oz wrote: If I were to go to a beach and get salt water, how long could I store it for and how should it be stored? I can probably get around 800 litres in one trip (2 1/2 hours each way) but the water would then be in 200 litre (44gallon) drums with only a small opening in the top. It's really not practical to go that far for just one drum of water and hubby's ute is not comfy and airconditioned and it's summer here. Would the water go off? -- \\\|/// ( @ @ ) -----------oOOo(_)oOOo--------------- oooO ---------( )----Oooo---------------- \ ( ( ) \_) ) / (_/ The original frugal ponder! Koi-ahoi mates.... |
Storing ocean water
Ummm Wayne.... seawater has many many living organisms in it.
I have used seawater from my backyard, out past the second sandbar and even farther out, over the years and had far more trouble that it's worth..... Just asking for giant algae outbreaks that come all of a sudden from minute particles in the water, even from the same spot of collecting that have been no problem in the past... And you have red tide type organisms that show up from time to time and other marine diseases that float through. http://bellsouthpwp.net/r/_/r_seyler/porch2.jpg Wayne Sallee wrote: You can store any salt water as long as you want. It won't go bad. The only exception is that water taken from the ocean will have some plankton in it, and that will dye, and effect the water. Also you don't want to get poluted water. Wayne Sallee Wayne's Pets miskairal wrote on 1/9/2006 4:51 PM: If I were to go to a beach and get salt water, how long could I store it for and how should it be stored? I can probably get around 800 litres in one trip (2 1/2 hours each way) but the water would then be in 200 litre (44gallon) drums with only a small opening in the top. It's really not practical to go that far for just one drum of water and hubby's ute is not comfy and airconditioned and it's summer here. Would the water go off? -- Ric Seyler Online Racing: RicSeyler GPL Handicap 6.35 http://www.pcola.gulf.net/~ricseyler remove SPAM- from email address -------------------------------------- "Homer no function beer well without." - H.J. Simpson |
Storing ocean water
RicSeyler wrote on 1/10/2006 11:59 AM: Ummm Wayne.... seawater has many many living organisms in it. Yea no kidding. I already stated that. Read below in the quoted section. I have used seawater from my backyard, out past the second sandbar and even farther out, over the years and had far more trouble that it's worth..... Just asking for giant algae outbreaks that come all of a sudden from minute particles in the water, even from the same spot of collecting that have been no problem in the past... And you have red tide type organisms that show up from time to time and other marine diseases that float through. http://bellsouthpwp.net/r/_/r_seyler/porch2.jpg I never stated that sea water was a better choice. My statement was that salt water when kept long term did not need to be kept airated. Wayne Sallee Wayne's Pets Wayne Sallee wrote: You can store any salt water as long as you want. It won't go bad. The only exception is that water taken from the ocean will have some plankton in it, and that will dye, and effect the water. Also you don't want to get poluted water. Wayne Sallee Wayne's Pets miskairal wrote on 1/9/2006 4:51 PM: If I were to go to a beach and get salt water, how long could I store it for and how should it be stored? I can probably get around 800 litres in one trip (2 1/2 hours each way) but the water would then be in 200 litre (44gallon) drums with only a small opening in the top. It's really not practical to go that far for just one drum of water and hubby's ute is not comfy and airconditioned and it's summer here. Would the water go off? |
Storing ocean water
Jaime R-S wrote on 1/10/2006 11:29 AM: Wao, at least someone makes sense. A few people here just because they canīt see anything in the water they think is inorganic. Well, someone ought to tell them that ocean water is a living ecosystems. It has producers, hervibores and carnivores in it. If it doesn't have light and O2 it will die and decompose, then anaerobic reactions take place and it becomes septic thus smelly! LOL I never stated that a person should seal up a container so that oxygen could not get in. Phostphate and Nitrogen levels keep rising and it will be toxic in no time. No it does not rise. It's already in there in biomas form, as the plankton dies, bacteria breaks the protines down into other forms of nitrogen, like amonia, nitrite, and nitrate. This same thing will happen in an arated vat. But we are talking long term storage here. Plankton will not live long term even if it is aerated. Well, that is Organic Chemistry 101... LOL Wayne Sallee Wayne's Pets jrs "BriMc" wrote in message ... Roy you are absolutely correct.I have Been working with salt over 20 years and have dumped many vats of salt water for sitting too long not being circulated or airated. "Roy" wrote in message .. . While I am far from an expert on the subject of storing salt water, I have to say your about the only one that has taken the view of no aeration being needed. From all the LFS and the multitudes of reef and fish keepers on all the web based forums, they all seem to agree it does need aeration..Just let a bucket of salt water set even if covered, and in a short time it starts to smell pretty rank and stale. Not that I dissagree as everyone has their own acceptable methods and proceedures, but just thought I would point this out. On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 01:46:15 GMT, Wayne Sallee wrote: When storing water for a long time it does not need to be kept circulated, or airated. Wayne Sallee Wayne's Pets Roy wrote on 1/9/2006 6:57 PM: For a long long time.....However natural sewater you get from the ocean will have a lot of undesirebale stuff in it which may create more problems later on. As posted make sure it does not have any polutants in it..pretty hard to verify that, and of course any organic material will start decomposing. If you decide to do it, I would keep it as cool as possible, in a dark container out of sunlight, and keep it aerated with a powerhead. Unless you use a large airstone they are not too effective or not as effective as usuing a powerhead to keep it agitated and aerated.....To be honest there is not a lot of foks in any of the forums I visit that thinks usuing naturally collected seawater to be a good thing mainly due to polutants and other undesireables like algae etc. On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 07:51:57 +1000, miskairal mehiding@Oz wrote: If I were to go to a beach and get salt water, how long could I store it for and how should it be stored? I can probably get around 800 litres in one trip (2 1/2 hours each way) but the water would then be in 200 litre (44gallon) drums with only a small opening in the top. It's really not practical to go that far for just one drum of water and hubby's ute is not comfy and airconditioned and it's summer here. Would the water go off? -- \\\|/// ( @ @ ) -----------oOOo(_)oOOo--------------- oooO ---------( )----Oooo---------------- \ ( ( ) \_) ) / (_/ The original frugal ponder! Koi-ahoi mates.... |
Storing ocean water
Oh, nice backyard!!!!
What a waste that you can't use the water. RicSeyler wrote: Ummm Wayne.... seawater has many many living organisms in it. I have used seawater from my backyard, out past the second sandbar and even farther out, over the years and had far more trouble that it's worth..... Just asking for giant algae outbreaks that come all of a sudden from minute particles in the water, even from the same spot of collecting that have been no problem in the past... And you have red tide type organisms that show up from time to time and other marine diseases that float through. http://bellsouthpwp.net/r/_/r_seyler/porch2.jpg Wayne Sallee wrote: You can store any salt water as long as you want. It won't go bad. The only exception is that water taken from the ocean will have some plankton in it, and that will dye, and effect the water. Also you don't want to get poluted water. Wayne Sallee Wayne's Pets miskairal wrote on 1/9/2006 4:51 PM: If I were to go to a beach and get salt water, how long could I store it for and how should it be stored? I can probably get around 800 litres in one trip (2 1/2 hours each way) but the water would then be in 200 litre (44gallon) drums with only a small opening in the top. It's really not practical to go that far for just one drum of water and hubby's ute is not comfy and airconditioned and it's summer here. Would the water go off? |
Storing ocean water
Wayne Sallee wrote: RicSeyler wrote on 1/10/2006 11:59 AM: Ummm Wayne.... seawater has many many living organisms in it. Yea no kidding. I already stated that. Read below in the quoted section. I never stated that sea water was a better choice. Sorry, didn't mean to infer you thought it was a better choice. I was just yammering about my experience with it. But I do disagree with your storage procedure with raw seawater. But hey this hobby is chocked full of contradictions. :-) My statement was that salt water when kept long term did not need to be kept airated. Wayne Sallee Wayne's Pets Wayne Sallee wrote: You can store any salt water as long as you want. It won't go bad. The only exception is that water taken from the ocean will have some plankton in it, and that will dye, and effect the water. Also you don't want to get poluted water. Wayne Sallee Wayne's Pets miskairal wrote on 1/9/2006 4:51 PM: If I were to go to a beach and get salt water, how long could I store it for and how should it be stored? I can probably get around 800 litres in one trip (2 1/2 hours each way) but the water would then be in 200 litre (44gallon) drums with only a small opening in the top. It's really not practical to go that far for just one drum of water and hubby's ute is not comfy and airconditioned and it's summer here. Would the water go off? -- Ric Seyler Online Racing: RicSeyler GPL Handicap 6.35 http://www.pcola.gulf.net/~ricseyler remove SPAM- from email address -------------------------------------- "Homer no function beer well without." - H.J. Simpson |
Storing ocean water
You can use it, many do. But you are opening
yourself up to possible natural occurring problems from it. miskairal wrote: Oh, nice backyard!!!! What a waste that you can't use the water. -- Ric Seyler Online Racing: RicSeyler GPL Handicap 6.35 http://www.pcola.gulf.net/~ricseyler remove SPAM- from email address -------------------------------------- "Homer no function beer well without." - H.J. Simpson |
Storing ocean water
What did you mean by "My statement was that salt water when kept long term
did not need to be kept airated."? You said it, not me! Please, don't answer, you are just going to step on it again! jrs "Wayne Sallee" wrote in message ... Jaime R-S wrote on 1/10/2006 11:29 AM: Wao, at least someone makes sense. A few people here just because they canīt see anything in the water they think is inorganic. Well, someone ought to tell them that ocean water is a living ecosystems. It has producers, hervibores and carnivores in it. If it doesn't have light and O2 it will die and decompose, then anaerobic reactions take place and it becomes septic thus smelly! LOL I never stated that a person should seal up a container so that oxygen could not get in. Phostphate and Nitrogen levels keep rising and it will be toxic in no time. No it does not rise. It's already in there in biomas form, as the plankton dies, bacteria breaks the protines down into other forms of nitrogen, like amonia, nitrite, and nitrate. This same thing will happen in an arated vat. But we are talking long term storage here. Plankton will not live long term even if it is aerated. Well, that is Organic Chemistry 101... LOL Wayne Sallee Wayne's Pets jrs "BriMc" wrote in message ... Roy you are absolutely correct.I have Been working with salt over 20 years and have dumped many vats of salt water for sitting too long not being circulated or airated. "Roy" wrote in message . .. While I am far from an expert on the subject of storing salt water, I have to say your about the only one that has taken the view of no aeration being needed. From all the LFS and the multitudes of reef and fish keepers on all the web based forums, they all seem to agree it does need aeration..Just let a bucket of salt water set even if covered, and in a short time it starts to smell pretty rank and stale. Not that I dissagree as everyone has their own acceptable methods and proceedures, but just thought I would point this out. On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 01:46:15 GMT, Wayne Sallee wrote: When storing water for a long time it does not need to be kept circulated, or airated. Wayne Sallee Wayne's Pets Roy wrote on 1/9/2006 6:57 PM: For a long long time.....However natural sewater you get from the ocean will have a lot of undesirebale stuff in it which may create more problems later on. As posted make sure it does not have any polutants in it..pretty hard to verify that, and of course any organic material will start decomposing. If you decide to do it, I would keep it as cool as possible, in a dark container out of sunlight, and keep it aerated with a powerhead. Unless you use a large airstone they are not too effective or not as effective as usuing a powerhead to keep it agitated and aerated.....To be honest there is not a lot of foks in any of the forums I visit that thinks usuing naturally collected seawater to be a good thing mainly due to polutants and other undesireables like algae etc. On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 07:51:57 +1000, miskairal mehiding@Oz wrote: If I were to go to a beach and get salt water, how long could I store it for and how should it be stored? I can probably get around 800 litres in one trip (2 1/2 hours each way) but the water would then be in 200 litre (44gallon) drums with only a small opening in the top. It's really not practical to go that far for just one drum of water and hubby's ute is not comfy and airconditioned and it's summer here. Would the water go off? -- \\\|/// ( @ @ ) -----------oOOo(_)oOOo--------------- oooO ---------( )----Oooo---------------- \ ( ( ) \_) ) / (_/ The original frugal ponder! Koi-ahoi mates.... |
Storing ocean water
When I make salt water up, I use a pump to mix it well. I
mix for about 15 minutes or less, depending on when I get back to it to turn off the pump. I put the lid on the trash can. I like 33 gallon rubermade trash cans. The lid is not air tight, but it reduces evaporation, and keeps dust out. This water may sit for 3 to 6 months befor I make a 50+% water change. I never airate it, or circulate it at all after the initial mix. It then gets pumped into the aquarium. There is no need to keep the water airated, or cerculated for long term storage. Wayne Sallee Wayne's Pets Jaime R-S wrote on 1/10/2006 7:33 PM: What did you mean by "My statement was that salt water when kept long term did not need to be kept airated."? You said it, not me! Please, don't answer, you are just going to step on it again! jrs "Wayne Sallee" wrote in message ... Jaime R-S wrote on 1/10/2006 11:29 AM: Wao, at least someone makes sense. A few people here just because they canīt see anything in the water they think is inorganic. Well, someone ought to tell them that ocean water is a living ecosystems. It has producers, hervibores and carnivores in it. If it doesn't have light and O2 it will die and decompose, then anaerobic reactions take place and it becomes septic thus smelly! LOL I never stated that a person should seal up a container so that oxygen could not get in. Phostphate and Nitrogen levels keep rising and it will be toxic in no time. No it does not rise. It's already in there in biomas form, as the plankton dies, bacteria breaks the protines down into other forms of nitrogen, like amonia, nitrite, and nitrate. This same thing will happen in an arated vat. But we are talking long term storage here. Plankton will not live long term even if it is aerated. Well, that is Organic Chemistry 101... LOL Wayne Sallee Wayne's Pets jrs "BriMc" wrote in message ... Roy you are absolutely correct.I have Been working with salt over 20 years and have dumped many vats of salt water for sitting too long not being circulated or airated. "Roy" wrote in message .. . While I am far from an expert on the subject of storing salt water, I have to say your about the only one that has taken the view of no aeration being needed. From all the LFS and the multitudes of reef and fish keepers on all the web based forums, they all seem to agree it does need aeration..Just let a bucket of salt water set even if covered, and in a short time it starts to smell pretty rank and stale. Not that I dissagree as everyone has their own acceptable methods and proceedures, but just thought I would point this out. On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 01:46:15 GMT, Wayne Sallee wrote: When storing water for a long time it does not need to be kept circulated, or airated. Wayne Sallee Wayne's Pets Roy wrote on 1/9/2006 6:57 PM: For a long long time.....However natural sewater you get from the ocean will have a lot of undesirebale stuff in it which may create more problems later on. As posted make sure it does not have any polutants in it..pretty hard to verify that, and of course any organic material will start decomposing. If you decide to do it, I would keep it as cool as possible, in a dark container out of sunlight, and keep it aerated with a powerhead. Unless you use a large airstone they are not too effective or not as effective as usuing a powerhead to keep it agitated and aerated.....To be honest there is not a lot of foks in any of the forums I visit that thinks usuing naturally collected seawater to be a good thing mainly due to polutants and other undesireables like algae etc. On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 07:51:57 +1000, miskairal mehiding@Oz wrote: If I were to go to a beach and get salt water, how long could I store it for and how should it be stored? I can probably get around 800 litres in one trip (2 1/2 hours each way) but the water would then be in 200 litre (44gallon) drums with only a small opening in the top. It's really not practical to go that far for just one drum of water and hubby's ute is not comfy and airconditioned and it's summer here. Would the water go off? -- \\\|/// ( @ @ ) -----------oOOo(_)oOOo--------------- oooO ---------( )----Oooo---------------- \ ( ( ) \_) ) / (_/ The original frugal ponder! Koi-ahoi mates.... |
Storing ocean water
Wayne,
If you bothered to reed the thread properly you should have noticed that it was about natural salt water collected from the ocean, therefore your statement was ridiculous, trying to wriggle out by changing the subject to manufactured sea water does not do you any good, admit your mistake and have done with it.!!! regards, unclenorm. Wayne Sallee wrote: When I make salt water up, I use a pump to mix it well. I mix for about 15 minutes or less, depending on when I get back to it to turn off the pump. I put the lid on the trash can. I like 33 gallon rubermade trash cans. The lid is not air tight, but it reduces evaporation, and keeps dust out. This water may sit for 3 to 6 months befor I make a 50+% water change. I never airate it, or circulate it at all after the initial mix. It then gets pumped into the aquarium. There is no need to keep the water airated, or cerculated for long term storage. Wayne Sallee Wayne's Pets Jaime R-S wrote on 1/10/2006 7:33 PM: What did you mean by "My statement was that salt water when kept long term did not need to be kept airated."? You said it, not me! Please, don't answer, you are just going to step on it again! jrs "Wayne Sallee" wrote in message ... Jaime R-S wrote on 1/10/2006 11:29 AM: Wao, at least someone makes sense. A few people here just because they canīt see anything in the water they think is inorganic. Well, someone ought to tell them that ocean water is a living ecosystems. It has producers, hervibores and carnivores in it. If it doesn't have light and O2 it will die and decompose, then anaerobic reactions take place and it becomes septic thus smelly! LOL I never stated that a person should seal up a container so that oxygen could not get in. Phostphate and Nitrogen levels keep rising and it will be toxic in no time. No it does not rise. It's already in there in biomas form, as the plankton dies, bacteria breaks the protines down into other forms of nitrogen, like amonia, nitrite, and nitrate. This same thing will happen in an arated vat. But we are talking long term storage here. Plankton will not live long term even if it is aerated. Well, that is Organic Chemistry 101... LOL Wayne Sallee Wayne's Pets jrs "BriMc" wrote in message ... Roy you are absolutely correct.I have Been working with salt over 20 years and have dumped many vats of salt water for sitting too long not being circulated or airated. "Roy" wrote in message .. . While I am far from an expert on the subject of storing salt water, I have to say your about the only one that has taken the view of no aeration being needed. From all the LFS and the multitudes of reef and fish keepers on all the web based forums, they all seem to agree it does need aeration..Just let a bucket of salt water set even if covered, and in a short time it starts to smell pretty rank and stale. Not that I dissagree as everyone has their own acceptable methods and proceedures, but just thought I would point this out. On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 01:46:15 GMT, Wayne Sallee wrote: When storing water for a long time it does not need to be kept circulated, or airated. Wayne Sallee Wayne's Pets Roy wrote on 1/9/2006 6:57 PM: For a long long time.....However natural sewater you get from the ocean will have a lot of undesirebale stuff in it which may create more problems later on. As posted make sure it does not have any polutants in it..pretty hard to verify that, and of course any organic material will start decomposing. If you decide to do it, I would keep it as cool as possible, in a dark container out of sunlight, and keep it aerated with a powerhead. Unless you use a large airstone they are not too effective or not as effective as usuing a powerhead to keep it agitated and aerated.....To be honest there is not a lot of foks in any of the forums I visit that thinks usuing naturally collected seawater to be a good thing mainly due to polutants and other undesireables like algae etc. On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 07:51:57 +1000, miskairal mehiding@Oz wrote: If I were to go to a beach and get salt water, how long could I store it for and how should it be stored? I can probably get around 800 litres in one trip (2 1/2 hours each way) but the water would then be in 200 litre (44gallon) drums with only a small opening in the top. It's really not practical to go that far for just one drum of water and hubby's ute is not comfy and airconditioned and it's summer here. Would the water go off? -- \\\|/// ( @ @ ) -----------oOOo(_)oOOo--------------- oooO ---------( )----Oooo---------------- \ ( ( ) \_) ) / (_/ The original frugal ponder! Koi-ahoi mates.... |
Storing ocean water
|
Storing ocean water
Nope, he is right Wayne, as I said before, you stepped on it, AGAIN! so,
just leave it there and don't sin again... lol, just read the name of the thread, it says clearly, STORING OCEAN WATER, and the guy was talking about getting it from his backyard (coastal I assume) Well, your credibility was poor, you made it worst... Now follow my advice, DO NOT REPLY! jrs "Wayne Sallee" wrote in message ... If you had bothered to read the very first responce to the original post, you would have noticed that it was written about salt water storage in general with a special notice in regard to sea water, therfore your statement was rediculous, trying to wringgle out by changing the subject does not do you any good, admit your mistake, and have done with it.!!! Also if you are storing salt water *long term*, the plankton in it will not survive even if you airate it. Wayne Sallee Wayne's Pets unclenorm wrote on 1/11/2006 3:18 AM: Wayne, If you bothered to reed the thread properly you should have noticed that it was about natural salt water collected from the ocean, therefore your statement was ridiculous, trying to wriggle out by changing the subject to manufactured sea water does not do you any good, admit your mistake and have done with it.!!! regards, unclenorm. Wayne Sallee wrote: When I make salt water up, I use a pump to mix it well. I mix for about 15 minutes or less, depending on when I get back to it to turn off the pump. I put the lid on the trash can. I like 33 gallon rubermade trash cans. The lid is not air tight, but it reduces evaporation, and keeps dust out. This water may sit for 3 to 6 months befor I make a 50+% water change. I never airate it, or circulate it at all after the initial mix. It then gets pumped into the aquarium. There is no need to keep the water airated, or cerculated for long term storage. Wayne Sallee Wayne's Pets Jaime R-S wrote on 1/10/2006 7:33 PM: What did you mean by "My statement was that salt water when kept long term did not need to be kept airated."? You said it, not me! Please, don't answer, you are just going to step on it again! jrs "Wayne Sallee" wrote in message ... Jaime R-S wrote on 1/10/2006 11:29 AM: Wao, at least someone makes sense. A few people here just because they canīt see anything in the water they think is inorganic. Well, someone ought to tell them that ocean water is a living ecosystems. It has producers, hervibores and carnivores in it. If it doesn't have light and O2 it will die and decompose, then anaerobic reactions take place and it becomes septic thus smelly! LOL I never stated that a person should seal up a container so that oxygen could not get in. Phostphate and Nitrogen levels keep rising and it will be toxic in no time. No it does not rise. It's already in there in biomas form, as the plankton dies, bacteria breaks the protines down into other forms of nitrogen, like amonia, nitrite, and nitrate. This same thing will happen in an arated vat. But we are talking long term storage here. Plankton will not live long term even if it is aerated. Well, that is Organic Chemistry 101... LOL Wayne Sallee Wayne's Pets jrs "BriMc" wrote in message . com... Roy you are absolutely correct.I have Been working with salt over 20 years and have dumped many vats of salt water for sitting too long not being circulated or airated. "Roy" wrote in message t... While I am far from an expert on the subject of storing salt water, I have to say your about the only one that has taken the view of no aeration being needed. From all the LFS and the multitudes of reef and fish keepers on all the web based forums, they all seem to agree it does need aeration..Just let a bucket of salt water set even if covered, and in a short time it starts to smell pretty rank and stale. Not that I dissagree as everyone has their own acceptable methods and proceedures, but just thought I would point this out. On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 01:46:15 GMT, Wayne Sallee wrote: When storing water for a long time it does not need to be kept circulated, or airated. Wayne Sallee Wayne's Pets Roy wrote on 1/9/2006 6:57 PM: For a long long time.....However natural sewater you get from the ocean will have a lot of undesirebale stuff in it which may create more problems later on. As posted make sure it does not have any polutants in it..pretty hard to verify that, and of course any organic material will start decomposing. If you decide to do it, I would keep it as cool as possible, in a dark container out of sunlight, and keep it aerated with a powerhead. Unless you use a large airstone they are not too effective or not as effective as usuing a powerhead to keep it agitated and aerated.....To be honest there is not a lot of foks in any of the forums I visit that thinks usuing naturally collected seawater to be a good thing mainly due to polutants and other undesireables like algae etc. On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 07:51:57 +1000, miskairal mehiding@Oz wrote: If I were to go to a beach and get salt water, how long could I store it for and how should it be stored? I can probably get around 800 litres in one trip (2 1/2 hours each way) but the water would then be in 200 litre (44gallon) drums with only a small opening in the top. It's really not practical to go that far for just one drum of water and hubby's ute is not comfy and airconditioned and it's summer here. Would the water go off? -- \\\|/// ( @ @ ) -----------oOOo(_)oOOo--------------- oooO ---------( )----Oooo---------------- \ ( ( ) \_) ) / (_/ The original frugal ponder! Koi-ahoi mates.... |
Storing ocean water
|
Storing ocean water
Oi, I'm a female, she, gal, woman, lady, sheila, chick etc. You know,
nothing between the legs to scratch :)) Jaime R-S wrote: Nope, he is right Wayne, as I said before, you stepped on it, AGAIN! so, just leave it there and don't sin again... lol, just read the name of the thread, it says clearly, STORING OCEAN WATER, and the guy was talking about getting it from his backyard (coastal I assume) Well, your credibility was poor, you made it worst... Now follow my advice, DO NOT REPLY! jrs "Wayne Sallee" wrote in message ... If you had bothered to read the very first responce to the original post, you would have noticed that it was written about salt water storage in general with a special notice in regard to sea water, therfore your statement was rediculous, trying to wringgle out by changing the subject does not do you any good, admit your mistake, and have done with it.!!! Also if you are storing salt water *long term*, the plankton in it will not survive even if you airate it. Wayne Sallee Wayne's Pets unclenorm wrote on 1/11/2006 3:18 AM: Wayne, If you bothered to reed the thread properly you should have noticed that it was about natural salt water collected from the ocean, therefore your statement was ridiculous, trying to wriggle out by changing the subject to manufactured sea water does not do you any good, admit your mistake and have done with it.!!! regards, unclenorm. Wayne Sallee wrote: When I make salt water up, I use a pump to mix it well. I mix for about 15 minutes or less, depending on when I get back to it to turn off the pump. I put the lid on the trash can. I like 33 gallon rubermade trash cans. The lid is not air tight, but it reduces evaporation, and keeps dust out. This water may sit for 3 to 6 months befor I make a 50+% water change. I never airate it, or circulate it at all after the initial mix. It then gets pumped into the aquarium. There is no need to keep the water airated, or cerculated for long term storage. Wayne Sallee Wayne's Pets Jaime R-S wrote on 1/10/2006 7:33 PM: What did you mean by "My statement was that salt water when kept long term did not need to be kept airated."? You said it, not me! Please, don't answer, you are just going to step on it again! jrs "Wayne Sallee" wrote in message ... Jaime R-S wrote on 1/10/2006 11:29 AM: Wao, at least someone makes sense. A few people here just because they canīt see anything in the water they think is inorganic. Well, someone ought to tell them that ocean water is a living ecosystems. It has producers, hervibores and carnivores in it. If it doesn't have light and O2 it will die and decompose, then anaerobic reactions take place and it becomes septic thus smelly! LOL I never stated that a person should seal up a container so that oxygen could not get in. Phostphate and Nitrogen levels keep rising and it will be toxic in no time. No it does not rise. It's already in there in biomas form, as the plankton dies, bacteria breaks the protines down into other forms of nitrogen, like amonia, nitrite, and nitrate. This same thing will happen in an arated vat. But we are talking long term storage here. Plankton will not live long term even if it is aerated. Well, that is Organic Chemistry 101... LOL Wayne Sallee Wayne's Pets jrs "BriMc" wrote in message .com... Roy you are absolutely correct.I have Been working with salt over 20 years and have dumped many vats of salt water for sitting too long not being circulated or airated. "Roy" wrote in message et... While I am far from an expert on the subject of storing salt water, I have to say your about the only one that has taken the view of no aeration being needed. From all the LFS and the multitudes of reef and fish keepers on all the web based forums, they all seem to agree it does need aeration..Just let a bucket of salt water set even if covered, and in a short time it starts to smell pretty rank and stale. Not that I dissagree as everyone has their own acceptable methods and proceedures, but just thought I would point this out. On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 01:46:15 GMT, Wayne Sallee wrote: When storing water for a long time it does not need to be kept circulated, or airated. Wayne Sallee Wayne's Pets Roy wrote on 1/9/2006 6:57 PM: For a long long time.....However natural sewater you get from the ocean will have a lot of undesirebale stuff in it which may create more problems later on. As posted make sure it does not have any polutants in it..pretty hard to verify that, and of course any organic material will start decomposing. If you decide to do it, I would keep it as cool as possible, in a dark container out of sunlight, and keep it aerated with a powerhead. Unless you use a large airstone they are not too effective or not as effective as usuing a powerhead to keep it agitated and aerated.....To be honest there is not a lot of foks in any of the forums I visit that thinks usuing naturally collected seawater to be a good thing mainly due to polutants and other undesireables like algae etc. On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 07:51:57 +1000, miskairal mehiding@Oz wrote: If I were to go to a beach and get salt water, how long could I store it for and how should it be stored? I can probably get around 800 litres in one trip (2 1/2 hours each way) but the water would then be in 200 litre (44gallon) drums with only a small opening in the top. It's really not practical to go that far for just one drum of water and hubby's ute is not comfy and airconditioned and it's summer here. Would the water go off? -- \\\|/// ( @ @ ) -----------oOOo(_)oOOo--------------- oooO ---------( )----Oooo---------------- \ ( ( ) \_) ) / (_/ The original frugal ponder! Koi-ahoi mates.... |
Storing ocean water
miskairal wrote:
If I were to go to a beach and get salt water, how long could I store it for and how should it be stored? I can probably get around 800 litres in one trip (2 1/2 hours each way) but the water would then be in 200 litre (44gallon) drums with only a small opening in the top. It's really not practical to go that far for just one drum of water and hubby's ute is not comfy and airconditioned and it's summer here. Would the water go off? Tullock's book: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/189...lance&n=283155 has a section somewhere in the beginning that talks about using natural sea water. If I recall correctly he is a proponent of this practice. I believe he recommends collecting the water at least three miles from shore and storing it in a cool dark place, undisturbed, for two weeks before use. Maybe someone here with the book can quote the section or you can look for it in a bookstore to skim. How do you plan on moving 44G drums, each with 367 pounds of water, from the surf to your truck? Toting 5 gallon buckets would seem to take forever. Cheers, Ed |
Storing ocean water
Ed wrote:
Tullock's book has a section somewhere in the beginning that talks about using natural sea water. Emmens "The Marine Aquarium in Theory and Practice" also has a section, which has similar recommendations. Emmens states that using the water immediately is "fairly safe, but risk of disease is always present." If it cannot be used immediately, he recommends storing it for at least 3 weeks in large containers in the dark. When you're ready to use it, avoid disturbing any sediment which may have precipitated out. He also states that mildly polluted water frequently causes an increase in ammonia and/or nitrite levels, and these levels can remain extremely high for months, so test these levels before use. George Patterson Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to your slightly older self. |
Storing ocean water
Page 62. I have the book but he doesn't say how long you can safely
store it. Getting and moving the water is not a problem, we're on a farm, have a few pumps around the place and plenty of pipe, a 1 ton ute and a tractor that can lift things. The pumps have only been used to pump creek water. We've spent the last 12 years getting 44s of molasses off the back of the ute and that weighs a whole lot more than salt water. I have a friend who lives across the road from a boat ramp that I saw used only once in 3 days (and that was during the busy New Year period). After all I've read here though I don't think I will be trying it while I'm still such a novice. It's alright for John Tullock with all his experience but I need to wait until I can pick up on problems early and know how to resolve them. Thanks. Ed wrote: miskairal wrote: If I were to go to a beach and get salt water, how long could I store it for and how should it be stored? I can probably get around 800 litres in one trip (2 1/2 hours each way) but the water would then be in 200 litre (44gallon) drums with only a small opening in the top. It's really not practical to go that far for just one drum of water and hubby's ute is not comfy and airconditioned and it's summer here. Would the water go off? Tullock's book: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/189...lance&n=283155 has a section somewhere in the beginning that talks about using natural sea water. If I recall correctly he is a proponent of this practice. I believe he recommends collecting the water at least three miles from shore and storing it in a cool dark place, undisturbed, for two weeks before use. Maybe someone here with the book can quote the section or you can look for it in a bookstore to skim. How do you plan on moving 44G drums, each with 367 pounds of water, from the surf to your truck? Toting 5 gallon buckets would seem to take forever. Cheers, Ed |
Storing ocean water
Thanks George. I think I've been put off for the time being though.
Storing for at least 3 weeks is fine but I wonder how 4-6 months would be? George Patterson wrote: Ed wrote: Tullock's book has a section somewhere in the beginning that talks about using natural sea water. Emmens "The Marine Aquarium in Theory and Practice" also has a section, which has similar recommendations. Emmens states that using the water immediately is "fairly safe, but risk of disease is always present." If it cannot be used immediately, he recommends storing it for at least 3 weeks in large containers in the dark. When you're ready to use it, avoid disturbing any sediment which may have precipitated out. He also states that mildly polluted water frequently causes an increase in ammonia and/or nitrite levels, and these levels can remain extremely high for months, so test these levels before use. George Patterson Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to your slightly older self. |
Storing ocean water
Salt water, whether it be a comercial mix, or sea water,
can be stored as long as you want. It does not go bad. Naturaly sea water has plankton in it that will die, and add amonia and nitrite, but the salt water itself will not go bad, so there is no time limit as to when you have to use the salt. you can store it for years if you want to. Wayne Sallee Wayne's Pets miskairal wrote on 1/12/2006 5:10 PM: Page 62. I have the book but he doesn't say how long you can safely store it. |
Storing ocean water
miskairal wrote:
Getting and moving the water is not a problem, we're on a farm, .... Runoff from farmland is one of the biggest pollutants there is. Hope you're not getting that water from close by. George Patterson Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to your slightly older self. |
Storing ocean water
No, 3 hour's drive away. No farms nearby as it's all sand, nothing much
grows there. We use no chemicals here but I have to use the local creek water for my freshwater fish and I dread to think what goes into the water upstream from us. Some of us farmers do try to be responsible. We pump water to troughs for the cattle to avoid them walking into the creek for drinks but we can't afford to fence it all off, we have about 5km of creek. George Patterson wrote: miskairal wrote: Getting and moving the water is not a problem, we're on a farm, .... Runoff from farmland is one of the biggest pollutants there is. Hope you're not getting that water from close by. George Patterson Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to your slightly older self. |
Storing ocean water
There you go again.
Please do yourself a favor! don't comment anymore on a subject that you know little about... Listen, read something about BOD5 and TSS and P and N contents on standing water. Over-the-top levels on either one that will ocurr after plankton's death and anaerobic bacteria reproduction. Adding a long standing ocean water to a living aquarium will be like hooking up the exhaust system of your car to the A/C duct. I thought you weren't refering to ocean water but to mixed water in your replies wich is the reason you said that... "The tytle of the thread does not limit the subject of the discussion." You see, please stick to those topics you know something about, leave water chemistry or bio-chemistry to those of us that went to college. jrs "Wayne Sallee" wrote in message ... Salt water, whether it be a comercial mix, or sea water, can be stored as long as you want. It does not go bad. Naturaly sea water has plankton in it that will die, and add amonia and nitrite, but the salt water itself will not go bad, so there is no time limit as to when you have to use the salt. you can store it for years if you want to. Wayne Sallee Wayne's Pets miskairal wrote on 1/12/2006 5:10 PM: Page 62. I have the book but he doesn't say how long you can safely store it. |
Storing ocean water
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Storing ocean water
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