Lowering ph
 

I have a problem,(I guess if I didn't I wouldn't be asking a
question!),anyways,I have a 90 gall heavily planted freshwater community
tank that's been set up for 10 years.Because I've always had a mild amount
of algae,I was doing large (70 %)water changes weekly to try to eliminate
the algae, but in the last 6 months it's gotten worse.(I think it's
cyanobacteria)I don't think I over feed or the tanks over populated.
I started adding KNO3(potassium nitrate)to increase the nitrate and have
reduced the water change to 5 gallons a week and it seems to work but now
I've noticed the ph has risen to above 8!.The tap water is about 7+/- .To
confuse matters even more,I also have a well established 50 gall that I
haven't changed my normal routine(water change,feeding ,fishload,ect...all
the same as usual)and the ph in that tank is also over 8.


So my questions are would KNO3 raise the ph?
If it's not the KNO3 what could it be?
What is the best way to lower it and keep it down safely?

Lowering ph
 

"Animal" wrote in message
...
I have a problem,(I guess if I didn't I wouldn't be asking a
question!),anyways,I have a 90 gall heavily planted freshwater community
tank that's been set up for 10 years.Because I've always had a mild amount
of algae,I was doing large (70 %)water changes weekly to try to eliminate
the algae, but in the last 6 months it's gotten worse.(I think it's
cyanobacteria)I don't think I over feed or the tanks over populated.
I started adding KNO3(potassium nitrate)to increase the nitrate and have
reduced the water change to 5 gallons a week and it seems to work but now
I've noticed the ph has risen to above 8!.The tap water is about 7+/- .To
confuse matters even more,I also have a well established 50 gall that I
haven't changed my normal routine(water change,feeding ,fishload,ect...all
the same as usual)and the ph in that tank is also over 8.


So my questions are would KNO3 raise the ph?
If it's not the KNO3 what could it be?
What is the best way to lower it and keep it down safely?
============================
Using chemicals to lower it causes "bounce" and that's not good for your
fish. If you're fish are healthy and doing well I wouldn't mess with the
PH. It's a lot harder to lower it than raise it. The plants may be raising
it in their need for carbon. Are you using Flourish Excel or a CO2
diffuser? You could call your water company and ask if they changed
anything.

You haven't added decorative shells or something else that can raise the PH
have you?
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Aquarium FAQ are at: http://faq.thekrib.com/
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

Lowering ph
 

Animal wrote:
I have a problem,(I guess if I didn't I wouldn't be asking a
question!),anyways,I have a 90 gall heavily planted freshwater community
tank that's been set up for 10 years.Because I've always had a mild amount
of algae,I was doing large (70 %)water changes weekly to try to eliminate
the algae, but in the last 6 months it's gotten worse.(I think it's
cyanobacteria)I don't think I over feed or the tanks over populated.
I started adding KNO3(potassium nitrate)to increase the nitrate and have
reduced the water change to 5 gallons a week and it seems to work but now
I've noticed the ph has risen to above 8!.The tap water is about 7+/- .To
confuse matters even more,I also have a well established 50 gall that I
haven't changed my normal routine(water change,feeding ,fishload,ect...all
the same as usual)and the ph in that tank is also over 8.


So my questions are would KNO3 raise the ph?
If it's not the KNO3 what could it be?
What is the best way to lower it and keep it down safely?




Try checking your pH in the morning, before the lights go on. If your
water is at all hard, the pH may rise during the day due to action of
the plants using carbon, thus reducing carbonic acid content of the
water. With KNO3 your plants will grow more and the effect may be more
pronounced. It's perfectly ok, although use of CO2 injection may
counteract the effect, I think.

I'd increase the water changes though. Tom Barr recommends big water
changes such as 50% weekly, and KNO3 addition etc. With your tiny water
changes the water may be becoming more hard due to evaporation...

Can't explain your 50 gal tank, though :) .

Finally, others have explained that you should let a glass of tapwater
stand for 24 hours before testing pH, because it may change due to
outgassing etc.

Lowering ph
 

"netDenizen" wrote in message
.. .
Finally, others have explained that you should let a glass of tapwater
stand for 24 hours before testing pH, because it may change due to
outgassing etc.
=================
Ours does. It goes from 7.2 to as high as 7.6 after several hours.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

Lowering ph
 

Our water is the same. Measured straight from the tap it is 7.0.
After 24hours it is up to 8.0.

Muddy

Lowering ph
 

Moments before spontaneously combusting Dale Henderson at
was heard opining:

"Koi-Lo" writes:

"netDenizen" wrote in message
.. .
Finally, others have explained that you should let a glass of
tapwater stand for 24 hours before testing pH, because it may change
due to outgassing etc.
=================
Ours does. It goes from 7.2 to as high as 7.6 after several hours.


I got you beat. My comes out of the tap at 7.0. But if I run an
airstone in it for an hour it goes over 8.
===========
They run CO2 gas in the lines to help keep scale down. At least that's what
I was told.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

Lowering ph
 

"Koi-Lo" writes:

Moments before spontaneously combusting Dale Henderson at
was heard opining:

"Koi-Lo" writes:

"netDenizen" wrote in message
.. .
Finally, others have explained that you should let a glass of
tapwater stand for 24 hours before testing pH, because it may change
due to outgassing etc.
=================
Ours does. It goes from 7.2 to as high as 7.6 after several hours.


I got you beat. My comes out of the tap at 7.0. But if I run an
airstone in it for an hour it goes over 8.
===========
They run CO2 gas in the lines to help keep scale down. At least
that's what I was told.

I have a well. Well water is notorious for being full of C02 and for
being very hard.

Lowering ph
 

On 09 Apr 2006, the world was enlightened by Dale Henderson's opinion
about...

"Koi-Lo" writes:

Moments before spontaneously combusting Dale Henderson at
was heard opining:

"Koi-Lo" writes:

"netDenizen" wrote in message
.. .
Finally, others have explained that you should let a glass of
tapwater stand for 24 hours before testing pH, because it may change
due to outgassing etc.
=================
Ours does. It goes from 7.2 to as high as 7.6 after several hours.


I got you beat. My comes out of the tap at 7.0. But if I run an
airstone in it for an hour it goes over 8.
===========
They run CO2 gas in the lines to help keep scale down. At least
that's what I was told.

I have a well. Well water is notorious for being full of C02 and for
being very hard.




I used to live in the Poconos in northeast PA and the well water there was
extremely soft (1-2 dKH) with a pH of 6.4. No limestone to make the water
hard.


kev

--
Clones are people two.

The Eeeevil Cabal's Nine of Spades.
Wickeddoll's on-demand FP guru.

Lowering ph
 

kev writes:


I used to live in the Poconos in northeast PA and the well water there was
extremely soft (1-2 dKH) with a pH of 6.4. No limestone to make the water
hard.


kev


Actually my father-in-law has a well and his water is extremely
soft. I've never tested it but you can tell by feel.

Lowering ph
 

Thank for the help everybody.I can't believe how fast and helpful everyone
here can be:-).I normal wouldn't try to change the PH but I just lost a 8
year old Raphael cat .So I thought it was the Ph.I haven't added anything
new,no fertilizers,co2 ,fish ,shells ,plants ,ect...
I was doing large water changes but cut them down because I was trying to
raise the nitrates to stop the cyanobactiria like Tom Barr says to do.
I'm going to test the tank in the morning and at night,(when I got the high
reading it was at 9 at night so maybe your right)Then I'll check the tap
water after letting it sit overnight.
Thanks again all.

Lowering ph
 

Animal wrote:
Thank for the help everybody.I can't believe how fast and helpful everyone
here can be:-).I normal wouldn't try to change the PH but I just lost a 8
year old Raphael cat .So I thought it was the Ph.I haven't added anything
new,no fertilizers,co2 ,fish ,shells ,plants ,ect...
I was doing large water changes but cut them down because I was trying to
raise the nitrates to stop the cyanobactiria like Tom Barr says to do.
I'm going to test the tank in the morning and at night,(when I got the high
reading it was at 9 at night so maybe your right)Then I'll check the tap
water after letting it sit overnight.
Thanks again all.

Is this a planted tank? If so, add KNO3 to raise nitrates. Otherwise
it is not a low nitrate issue, it is a dirty gravel issue.

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to reply.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

Lowering ph
 

On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 21:21:20 GMT, Altum
wrote:

Animal wrote:
Thank for the help everybody.I can't believe how fast and helpful everyone
here can be:-).I normal wouldn't try to change the PH but I just lost a 8
year old Raphael cat .So I thought it was the Ph.I haven't added anything
new,no fertilizers,co2 ,fish ,shells ,plants ,ect...
I was doing large water changes but cut them down because I was trying to
raise the nitrates to stop the cyanobactiria like Tom Barr says to do.
I'm going to test the tank in the morning and at night,(when I got the high
reading it was at 9 at night so maybe your right)Then I'll check the tap
water after letting it sit overnight.
Thanks again all.

Is this a planted tank? If so, add KNO3 to raise nitrates. Otherwise
it is not a low nitrate issue, it is a dirty gravel issue.

In what form do you purchase your KNO3? I know it is available as
stuff like Stump Away and Salt Saltpetre, but have no idea how to
measure/dose it. (Are you reading this, TomBarr?)

-- Mister Gardener

Lowering ph
 

On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 17:42:42 -0400, Mister Gardener
wrote:

On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 21:21:20 GMT, Altum
wrote:

Animal wrote:
Thank for the help everybody.I can't believe how fast and helpful everyone
here can be:-).I normal wouldn't try to change the PH but I just lost a 8
year old Raphael cat .So I thought it was the Ph.I haven't added anything
new,no fertilizers,co2 ,fish ,shells ,plants ,ect...
I was doing large water changes but cut them down because I was trying to
raise the nitrates to stop the cyanobactiria like Tom Barr says to do.
I'm going to test the tank in the morning and at night,(when I got the high
reading it was at 9 at night so maybe your right)Then I'll check the tap
water after letting it sit overnight.
Thanks again all.

Is this a planted tank? If so, add KNO3 to raise nitrates. Otherwise
it is not a low nitrate issue, it is a dirty gravel issue.

In what form do you purchase your KNO3? I know it is available as
stuff like Stump Away and Salt Saltpetre, but have no idea how to
measure/dose it. (Are you reading this, TomBarr?)

-- Mister Gardener
(delete the first Salt in Saltpeter!)

-- Mister Gardener

Lowering ph
 

Mister Gardener wrote:
On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 21:21:20 GMT, Altum
wrote:

Animal wrote:
Thank for the help everybody.I can't believe how fast and helpful everyone
here can be:-).I normal wouldn't try to change the PH but I just lost a 8
year old Raphael cat .So I thought it was the Ph.I haven't added anything
new,no fertilizers,co2 ,fish ,shells ,plants ,ect...
I was doing large water changes but cut them down because I was trying to
raise the nitrates to stop the cyanobactiria like Tom Barr says to do.
I'm going to test the tank in the morning and at night,(when I got the high
reading it was at 9 at night so maybe your right)Then I'll check the tap
water after letting it sit overnight.
Thanks again all.
Is this a planted tank? If so, add KNO3 to raise nitrates. Otherwise
it is not a low nitrate issue, it is a dirty gravel issue.

In what form do you purchase your KNO3? I know it is available as
stuff like Stump Away and Salt Saltpetre, but have no idea how to
measure/dose it. (Are you reading this, TomBarr?)

-- Mister Gardener

I buy all my fertilizers from http://gregwatson.com. His Plantex CSM+B
works great and costs far less than most commercial iron and trace
element fertilizers.

As for how to dose, check out the Estimative Index (EI) dosing article
on Tom Barr's site, http://www.barrreport.com. He's got a new EI
"light" article with very simple instructions now. You do have to
register, but the article is part of the free content.

You can also use Chuck Gadd's calculator to help figure things out.
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_p...osage_calc.htm
For example, 1/2 tsp of KNO3 will raise nitrate by 9 ppm in a 50 gallon
tank.

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to reply.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

Lowering ph
 

Animal wrote:

I have a problem,(I guess if I didn't I wouldn't be asking a
question!),anyways,I have a 90 gall heavily planted freshwater community
tank that's been set up for 10 years.Because I've always had a mild amount
of algae,I was doing large (70 %)water changes weekly to try to eliminate
the algae, but in the last 6 months it's gotten worse.(I think it's
cyanobacteria)I don't think I over feed or the tanks over populated.
I started adding KNO3(potassium nitrate)to increase the nitrate and have
reduced the water change to 5 gallons a week and it seems to work but now
I've noticed the ph has risen to above 8!.The tap water is about 7+/- .To
confuse matters even more,I also have a well established 50 gall that I
haven't changed my normal routine(water change,feeding ,fishload,ect...all
the same as usual)and the ph in that tank is also over 8.

So my questions are would KNO3 raise the ph?
If it's not the KNO3 what could it be?
What is the best way to lower it and keep it down safely?


To give an answer to that we need to know a little bit mo carbonate
and permanent hardness of your tab water, its nitrate and phosphate
level (assuming that nitrite and ammonia are not present) and the
nitrate and phosphate level in your tank. It may also be useful to
measure the iron concentration, which is a marker for the supply of
trace metals required for plant health. A good trace element fertiliser
(without nitrate and phosphate) like Doc Kremsers (no affiliation) might
give your plants a head start over the algae. What is the stocking
level?

Fast growing plants like Cabomba or duck weed can lower nitrate
concentrations and thus fight algae. Note that high nitrate may well be
the cause of algae, in particular bga (something I have a running battle
with since my tab water is 40 mg/l nitrate due to agricultural
pollution). About 5-10 mg/ml is considered ideal for good plant growth
and algae reduction, phosphate should be below 0.5 mg/ml.

Moderate algae growth is not really a problem, after all we are running
an ecological system and not an operating theater. Excess algae are
unsightly, and in particular bga may produce poisons that harm your
fish. A good way to rid ones tank of bga is a dark periode of 1 week
(lights of and blanket over the tank). Plants and green algae will
survive, but bga is eliminated. You may also place a piece of net
curtain over the affected plants, bga are motile and will over a few
days move on top of the cloth for better light. They can then be removed
with the cloth. This is best done before the dark cure to reduce the
bio-load of decaying algae.

If your water is alkaline because of high hardness (the two usually run
together) you can either keep fishes that like such water, or you can
try to reduce hardness and pH. Mixing the tab water with demineralised
(usually by reversed osmosis) water is one option, filtering the water
over peat, the cones of _Alnus glutinosa_ (a tree found near river
benches) or oak leaves another. In either case be sure to reduce the pH
real SLOW, otherwise you may harm your fishes. Do not use chemicals to
lower pH, they often contain phosphoric acid which makes your algae
problem worse.

5 gal a week for a 90 gal tank is not enough water change, increase to
about 10-15 gal a week to ensure adequate water quality. I do 10% twice
a week, which seems to work nicely.

Lowering ph
 

I'll try to be a little more detailed in my info(I didn't want to overload
the newsgroup)The carbonate hardness is 71.6
The general hardness is-17.9
Nitrate-0 That's why I think I have BGA(cayanobactiria)
Phosphate-0
Iron-No tester for iron
Ph-8.0
Stocking level are medium to low...4 adult angels,4 3
inch botias,and 2 otto cats.
From what I've read LOW nitrates cause BGA,and normally I do 70 gallon water
changes per week(I thought it was getting rid of the algae)but that may have
contributed to the algae problem!

The tank itself is heavily planted,it did have 40 watt flo bulbs on a timer
for 12 hours a day but I reduced it to just 2 bulbs 12 hours a day to reduce
the algae.There is no gravel just play sand so its easy to keep the tank
clean(just stir it up with the gravel vac).
I get my KNO3 at a local hydroponics store but it's pretty expensive,if
there's a cheaper place I'd like to know.

Thanks again for the informative answers,you people are the best!

Lowering ph
 

Animal wrote:
I'll try to be a little more detailed in my info(I didn't want to overload
the newsgroup)The carbonate hardness is 71.6
The general hardness is-17.9
Nitrate-0 That's why I think I have BGA(cayanobactiria)
Phosphate-0
Iron-No tester for iron
Ph-8.0
Stocking level are medium to low...4 adult angels,4 3
inch botias,and 2 otto cats.
From what I've read LOW nitrates cause BGA,and normally I do 70 gallon water
changes per week(I thought it was getting rid of the algae)but that may have
contributed to the algae problem!

The tank itself is heavily planted,it did have 40 watt flo bulbs on a timer
for 12 hours a day but I reduced it to just 2 bulbs 12 hours a day to reduce
the algae.There is no gravel just play sand so its easy to keep the tank
clean(just stir it up with the gravel vac).
I get my KNO3 at a local hydroponics store but it's pretty expensive,if
there's a cheaper place I'd like to know.

Thanks again for the informative answers,you people are the best!

Overload THIS newsgroup??? Not likely. ;-)

I have had BGA from low nitrate in planted tanks. What happens is that
it lives on the iron & trace ferts, potash, and phosphate you provide by
fixing atmospheric nitrogen. Plants can't fix nitrogen so all they're
getting is what little nitrogen they can scavenge from your fish.

Cheap place for ferts: http://www.gregwatson.com. The Plantex CSM+B
Greg sells is very good stuff. My plants have never shown any
deficiencies when I dose it.

You actually need more of both nitrate and phosphate for your plants.
The poor little guys are starving. :-(

Here's what I did for BGA in a high light planted tank.

1) Dose nitrogen up to 10-15 ppm and phosphate to 1 ppm. Use Chuck
Gadd's calculator to calculate how much fertilizer you need. The KNO3
will also provide some potash.
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_p...osage_calc.htm

2) Black out the tank for 3 days, siphoning out the dying BGA daily.
Short blackouts don't hurt plants because they can store sugar but they
kill algae pretty well.

3) Turn ALL the lights back on.

4) Fertilize NPK and carbon for strong plant growth. Start adding CO2
or Flourish Excel, dose NPK regularly. You probably don't need extra
Mg++ or Ca++ because your water is hard. Root fertilize crypts and
swords. This should get your plants growing like crazy. Test nitrate -
you'll be surprised how much nitrate you need in a tank with a low fish
load and lots of plants.

5) Limit iron. If you use a lot of iron & trace element fertilization,
lower the dosage. I started dosing half and it turned out to be plenty
with my Flourite substrate. Watch your plants for signs of chlorosis
and adjust iron fertilizers until plants are green and healthy but algae
doesn't grow. It's better to limit iron than phosphate to control algae.

It took my tank about three weeks to come back to equilibrium after it
ran out of nitrate and the BGA started to grow. If you're fertilizing
well and adding CO2/Excel , you'll be surprised how little algae you have.

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to reply.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

Lowering ph
 

Animal ) wrote:
: I get my KNO3 at a local hydroponics store but it's pretty expensive,if
: there's a cheaper place I'd like to know.

http://search.ebay.com/kno3_W0QQfkrZ1QQfromZR8

NA