Porcelain Tiles in a tank?
 

Anybody know if porcelain tiles (like the ones that go on the floor) are
safe in an aquarium. Sinks and such are made of porcelain, so the porcelain
itself is fine, but the tiles are colored porcelain. Anyone know what kind
of chemicals they use to color porcelain, and if this stuff would be pretty
well encased inside the porcelain so none of it leaches out? I'm hoping to
use these tiles for a background.

Thanks,
Harry

Porcelain Tiles in a tank?
 

clay. it's not encased at all because the tiles are only glazed on top of
porcelain.

neither the glaze nor the tile may be safe. there's a lot of glazes that
aren't food safe (contain lead, cadmium, etc) and could leach metals from
either a basic or acid solution in contact with it. you'd have to find out
what is in them from the manufacturer, and they probably don't know since
tiles typically don't have a msds.

"Harry Muscle" wrote in message
...
Anybody know if porcelain tiles (like the ones that go on the floor) are
safe in an aquarium. Sinks and such are made of porcelain, so the
porcelain
itself is fine, but the tiles are colored porcelain. Anyone know what
kind
of chemicals they use to color porcelain, and if this stuff would be
pretty
well encased inside the porcelain so none of it leaches out? I'm hoping
to
use these tiles for a background.

Thanks,
Harry

Porcelain Tiles in a tank?
 

Actually it's not clay (unless porcelain is a clay substance?), it's the
same color pattern all the way through the tile (not just glazed on top).
They are the ones designed for outside/inside use and heavy traffic, so you
could scratch half the tile away and it would still look normal since it's
all the same color pattern throughout.

Harry

"Charles Spitzer" charlie.spitzer@nospam. .com wrote in message
news:c51hrb$5rf$1@transfer. .com...
clay. it's not encased at all because the tiles are only glazed on top of
porcelain.

neither the glaze nor the tile may be safe. there's a lot of glazes that
aren't food safe (contain lead, cadmium, etc) and could leach metals from
either a basic or acid solution in contact with it. you'd have to find out
what is in them from the manufacturer, and they probably don't know since
tiles typically don't have a msds.

"Harry Muscle" wrote in message
...
Anybody know if porcelain tiles (like the ones that go on the floor) are
safe in an aquarium. Sinks and such are made of porcelain, so the
porcelain
itself is fine, but the tiles are colored porcelain. Anyone know what
kind
of chemicals they use to color porcelain, and if this stuff would be
pretty
well encased inside the porcelain so none of it leaches out? I'm hoping
to
use these tiles for a background.

Thanks,
Harry

Porcelain Tiles in a tank?
 

In article ,
Charles Spitzer wrote:

neither the glaze nor the tile may be safe. there's a lot of glazes that
aren't food safe (contain lead, cadmium, etc) and could leach metals from
either a basic or acid solution in contact with it. you'd have to find out
what is in them from the manufacturer, and they probably don't know since
tiles typically don't have a msds.

Anybody selling a kitchen tile laced with toxic heavy metals is just
asking for litigation...

Porcelain Tiles in a tank?
 

A way to test them is to put some lemon drops on the surface of the tile...
Also, u can find different kind of tiles, porcelain is a high temperature
clay, and then should be a lot more resistant to anything.

--
Paulo
"james" wrote in message
news:qlYcc.410$es.107@fed1read02...
In article ,
Charles Spitzer wrote:

neither the glaze nor the tile may be safe. there's a lot of glazes that
aren't food safe (contain lead, cadmium, etc) and could leach metals from
either a basic or acid solution in contact with it. you'd have to find
out
what is in them from the manufacturer, and they probably don't know since
tiles typically don't have a msds.

Anybody selling a kitchen tile laced with toxic heavy metals is just
asking for litigation...

Porcelain Tiles in a tank?
 

"james" wrote in message
news:qlYcc.410$es.107@fed1read02...
In article ,
Charles Spitzer wrote:

neither the glaze nor the tile may be safe. there's a lot of glazes that
aren't food safe (contain lead, cadmium, etc) and could leach metals from
either a basic or acid solution in contact with it. you'd have to find
out
what is in them from the manufacturer, and they probably don't know since
tiles typically don't have a msds.

Anybody selling a kitchen tile laced with toxic heavy metals is just
asking for litigation...

not really. also, OP didn't state that they were kitchen tiles. could be
floor, bathroom, pool, etc. incidental contact with lead bearing glazes for
kitchen tiles wouldn't be bad either. the OP is talking about leaving them
inside the tank, which is full contact forever.

they allow lead crystal to be used for decanters as long as you don't store
wine in them. long term contact with lead crystal leaches out the lead into
the wine. it's all a matter of how long the contact is.

Porcelain Tiles in a tank?
 

porcelain is clay. it is a certain type of clay fired at a higher than
normal temperature.

"Harry Muscle" wrote in message
...
Actually it's not clay (unless porcelain is a clay substance?), it's the
same color pattern all the way through the tile (not just glazed on top).
They are the ones designed for outside/inside use and heavy traffic, so
you
could scratch half the tile away and it would still look normal since it's
all the same color pattern throughout.

Harry

"Charles Spitzer" charlie.spitzer@nospam. .com wrote in message
news:c51hrb$5rf$1@transfer. .com...
clay. it's not encased at all because the tiles are only glazed on top
of
porcelain.

neither the glaze nor the tile may be safe. there's a lot of glazes that
aren't food safe (contain lead, cadmium, etc) and could leach metals
from
either a basic or acid solution in contact with it. you'd have to find
out
what is in them from the manufacturer, and they probably don't know
since
tiles typically don't have a msds.

"Harry Muscle" wrote in message
...
Anybody know if porcelain tiles (like the ones that go on the floor)
are
safe in an aquarium. Sinks and such are made of porcelain, so the
porcelain
itself is fine, but the tiles are colored porcelain. Anyone know what
kind
of chemicals they use to color porcelain, and if this stuff would be
pretty
well encased inside the porcelain so none of it leaches out? I'm
hoping
to
use these tiles for a background.

Thanks,
Harry

Porcelain Tiles in a tank?
 

"Charles Spitzer" charlie.spitzer@nospam. .com wrote in message
news:c51lec$677$1@transfer. .com...

"james" wrote in message
news:qlYcc.410$es.107@fed1read02...
In article c51hrb$5rf$1@transfer. .com,
Charles Spitzer charlie.spitzer@nospam. .com wrote:

neither the glaze nor the tile may be safe. there's a lot of glazes
that
aren't food safe (contain lead, cadmium, etc) and could leach metals
from
either a basic or acid solution in contact with it. you'd have to find
out
what is in them from the manufacturer, and they probably don't know
since
tiles typically don't have a msds.

Anybody selling a kitchen tile laced with toxic heavy metals is just
asking for litigation...

not really. also, OP didn't state that they were kitchen tiles. could be
floor, bathroom, , etc. incidental contact with lead bearing glazes
for
kitchen tiles wouldn't be ither. the OP is talking about leaving them
inside the tank, which is full contact forever.

they allow lead crystal to be used for decanters as long as you don't
store
wine in them. long term contact with lead crystal leaches out the lead
into
the wine. it's all a matter of how long the contact is.



But what if the tile doesn't have a glaze on it? What if it's solid
porcelain, with the color pattern embedded throughout the whole tile?

Thanks,
Harry

Porcelain Tiles in a tank?
 

"Harry Muscle" wrote in message
...
"Charles Spitzer" charlie.spitzer@nospam. .com wrote in message
news:c51lec$677$1@transfer. .com...

"james" wrote in message
news:qlYcc.410$es.107@fed1read02...
In article c51hrb$5rf$1@transfer. .com,
Charles Spitzer charlie.spitzer@nospam. .com wrote:

neither the glaze nor the tile may be safe. there's a lot of glazes
that
aren't food safe (contain lead, cadmium, etc) and could leach metals
from
either a basic or acid solution in contact with it. you'd have to
find
out
what is in them from the manufacturer, and they probably don't know
since
tiles typically don't have a msds.

Anybody selling a kitchen tile laced with toxic heavy metals is just
asking for litigation...

not really. also, OP didn't state that they were kitchen tiles. could be
floor, bathroom, , etc. incidental contact with lead bearing glazes
for
kitchen tiles wouldn't be ither. the OP is talking about leaving
them
inside the tank, which is full contact forever.

they allow lead crystal to be used for decanters as long as you don't
store
wine in them. long term contact with lead crystal leaches out the lead
into
the wine. it's all a matter of how long the contact is.



But what if the tile doesn't have a glaze on it? What if it's solid
porcelain, with the color pattern embedded throughout the whole tile?

Thanks,
Harry


then it depends upon what is in the clay, which comes from the ground and
has LOTS of different metals in it, or could even be a blend of different
clays from different regions of the world. for sure, the tile manufacturer
won't know that, or at least, they won't tell. i've never seen an msds on
tile.

Porcelain Tiles in a tank?
 

"Harry Muscle" wrote:
Anybody know if porcelain tiles (like the ones that go on the floor) are
safe in an aquarium. Sinks and such are made of porcelain, so the porcelain
itself is fine, but the tiles are colored porcelain. Anyone know what kind
of chemicals they use to color porcelain, and if this stuff would be pretty
well encased inside the porcelain so none of it leaches out? I'm hoping to
use these tiles for a background.

It's going to be very dependent on the glaze. Back when I did lots of
pottery, I had to be pretty picky about which glazes I could use for food
containers (especially pitchers). Lots of the prettier colors used heavy
metals as the pigments -- not good to ingest. If you don't know the contents
of the glaze, you're living on the edge.

Porcelain Tiles in a tank?
 

"Charles Spitzer" charlie.spitzer@nospam. .com wrote in message
news:c51m8e$6bc$1@transfer. .com...

"Harry Muscle" wrote in message
...
"Charles Spitzer" charlie.spitzer@nospam. .com wrote in message
news:c51lec$677$1@transfer. .com...

"james" wrote in message
news:qlYcc.410$es.107@fed1read02...
In article c51hrb$5rf$1@transfer. .com,
Charles Spitzer charlie.spitzer@nospam. .com wrote:

neither the glaze nor the tile may be safe. there's a lot of glazes
that
aren't food safe (contain lead, cadmium, etc) and could leach
metals
from
either a basic or acid solution in contact with it. you'd have to
find
out
what is in them from the manufacturer, and they probably don't know
since
tiles typically don't have a msds.

Anybody selling a kitchen tile laced with toxic heavy metals is just
asking for litigation...

not really. also, OP didn't state that they were kitchen tiles. could
be
floor, bathroom, , etc. incidental contact with lead bearing
glazes
for
kitchen tiles wouldn't be ither. the OP is talking about leaving
them
inside the tank, which is full contact forever.

they allow lead crystal to be used for decanters as long as you don't
store
wine in them. long term contact with lead crystal leaches out the lead
into
the wine. it's all a matter of how long the contact is.



But what if the tile doesn't have a glaze on it? What if it's solid
porcelain, with the color pattern embedded throughout the whole tile?

Thanks,
Harry


then it depends upon what is in the clay, which comes from the ground and
has LOTS of different metals in it, or could even be a blend of different
clays from different regions of the world. for sure, the tile manufacturer
won't know that, or at least, they won't tell. i've never seen an msds on
tile.



So in other words, unless I stick it in the tank and wait for my fish to
die, there is no way for me to find out if it's going to cause any problems.
Bummer. Maybe I should stick with using slate tiles.

Thanks for the info,
Harry

P.S. Are porcelain sinks, toilets, etc. glazed? Or are they smooth and
water repellent naturally?

Porcelain Tiles in a tank?
 

"Harry Muscle" wrote in message
...

So in other words, unless I stick it in the tank and wait for my fish to
die, there is no way for me to find out if it's going to cause any
problems.
Bummer. Maybe I should stick with using slate tiles.

Thanks for the info,
Harry

P.S. Are porcelain sinks, toilets, etc. glazed? Or are they smooth and
water repellent naturally?



You may be talking two different products here. A porcelain sink (kit.) or
tub etc., is cast iron or metal with a glaze baked on. Pedestal Lavatories
(bath) or toilets are usually vitreous china with a glaze. Tile OTOH can be
made from just about anything these days - concrete impregnated fiber to
recycled glass. Most manufacturers will tell you what they use but
contacting them can be interesting.

Porcelain Tiles in a tank?
 

"Harry Muscle" wrote in message
...
"Charles Spitzer" charlie.spitzer@nospam. .com wrote in message
news:c51m8e$6bc$1@transfer. .com...

"Harry Muscle" wrote in message
...
"Charles Spitzer" charlie.spitzer@nospam. .com wrote in message
news:c51lec$677$1@transfer. .com...

"james" wrote in message
news:qlYcc.410$es.107@fed1read02...
In article c51hrb$5rf$1@transfer. .com,
Charles Spitzer charlie.spitzer@nospam. .com wrote:

neither the glaze nor the tile may be safe. there's a lot of
glazes
that
aren't food safe (contain lead, cadmium, etc) and could leach
metals
from
either a basic or acid solution in contact with it. you'd have to
find
out
what is in them from the manufacturer, and they probably don't
know
since
tiles typically don't have a msds.

Anybody selling a kitchen tile laced with toxic heavy metals is
just
asking for litigation...

not really. also, OP didn't state that they were kitchen tiles.
could
be
floor, bathroom, , etc. incidental contact with lead bearing
glazes
for
kitchen tiles wouldn't be ither. the OP is talking about
leaving
them
inside the tank, which is full contact forever.

they allow lead crystal to be used for decanters as long as you
don't
store
wine in them. long term contact with lead crystal leaches out the
lead
into
the wine. it's all a matter of how long the contact is.



But what if the tile doesn't have a glaze on it? What if it's solid
porcelain, with the color pattern embedded throughout the whole tile?

Thanks,
Harry


then it depends upon what is in the clay, which comes from the ground
and
has LOTS of different metals in it, or could even be a blend of
different
clays from different regions of the world. for sure, the tile
manufacturer
won't know that, or at least, they won't tell. i've never seen an msds
on
tile.



So in other words, unless I stick it in the tank and wait for my fish to
die, there is no way for me to find out if it's going to cause any
problems.

chances are it's safe. however, how much of a betting person are you? you
might try a piece of tile in a test tank with 1 fish and some inverts for 6
months. if there's no affect, it's probably safe. also water changes would
decrease the amount of toxins, if any.

Bummer. Maybe I should stick with using slate tiles.

isn't slate shale? a lot of shale comes from oil bearing rocks.

Thanks for the info,
Harry

P.S. Are porcelain sinks, toilets, etc. glazed? Or are they smooth and
water repellent naturally?

yes. if you turn your toilet upside down, you'd see unglazed places. maybe
the inside of the tank lid too. the item is made in a mold, fired and
cooled, the glaze is sprayed on, then fired again at a higher temp.

Porcelain Tiles in a tank?
 

"Wm Hopkins" wrote in message
k.net...

"Harry Muscle" wrote in message
...

So in other words, unless I stick it in the tank and wait for my fish to
die, there is no way for me to find out if it's going to cause any
problems.
Bummer. Maybe I should stick with using slate tiles.

Thanks for the info,
Harry

P.S. Are porcelain sinks, toilets, etc. glazed? Or are they smooth and
water repellent naturally?



You may be talking two different products here. A porcelain sink (kit.) or
tub etc., is cast iron or metal with a glaze baked on. Pedestal Lavatories
(bath) or toilets are usually vitreous china with a glaze. Tile OTOH can
be
made from just about anything these days - concrete impregnated fiber to
recycled glass. Most manufacturers will tell you what they use but
contacting them can be interesting.


tubs and some kitchen sinks are usually porcelain on metal. toilets and
bathroom sinks are usually porcelain on some clay body that's been fired to
porcelain temps. the clay body could be a porcelain or not. if you go into a
pottery supply place, they might have 25 different clay bodies in 25 lb
blocks, some of which are classified as a porcelain.

Porcelain Tiles in a tank?
 

"Harry Muscle" wrote in message
...
Anybody know if porcelain tiles (like the ones that go on the floor) are
safe in an aquarium. Sinks and such are made of porcelain, so the
porcelain
itself is fine, but the tiles are colored porcelain. Anyone know what
kind
of chemicals they use to color porcelain, and if this stuff would be
pretty
well encased inside the porcelain so none of it leaches out? I'm hoping
to
use these tiles for a background.

Thanks,
Harry



Totally inexperienced suggestion here, but could you secure the tiles
together with a piece of backing like fabric or thin wood and hang that on
the back of the tank on the outside? Maybe that doesn't give the desired
effect.

Just a thought.

Porcelain Tiles in a tank?
 

"Harry Muscle" wrote in message
...
Anybody know if porcelain tiles (like the ones that go on the floor)
are
safe in an aquarium. Sinks and such are made of porcelain, so the
porcelain
itself is fine, but the tiles are colored porcelain. Anyone know what
kind
of chemicals they use to color porcelain, and if this stuff would be
pretty
well encased inside the porcelain so none of it leaches out? I'm
hoping to
use these tiles for a background.

Thanks,
Harry

How about brushing a thin layer of a marine epoxy over them, to seal
whatever is or isn't there to leech.

Case closed ? ;~)
NetMax

Porcelain Tiles in a tank?
 

Harry Muscle wrote:

Anybody know if porcelain tiles (like the ones that go on the floor) are
safe in an aquarium. Sinks and such are made of porcelain, so the porcelain
itself is fine, but the tiles are colored porcelain. Anyone know what kind
of chemicals they use to color porcelain, and if this stuff would be pretty
well encased inside the porcelain so none of it leaches out? I'm hoping to
use these tiles for a background.

Check with some of the major pool manufacturers. Pools have been lined
using tiles for decades. Hell, if it's good enough for the YMCA pool...

Porcelain Tiles in a tank?
 

"NetMax" wrote in message
. ..

"Harry Muscle" wrote in message
...
Anybody know if porcelain tiles (like the ones that go on the floor)
are
safe in an aquarium. Sinks and such are made of porcelain, so the
porcelain
itself is fine, but the tiles are colored porcelain. Anyone know what
kind
of chemicals they use to color porcelain, and if this stuff would be
pretty
well encased inside the porcelain so none of it leaches out? I'm
hoping to
use these tiles for a background.

Thanks,
Harry

How about brushing a thin layer of a marine epoxy over them, to seal
whatever is or isn't there to leech.

Case closed ? ;~)
NetMax



I actually thought of that idea last night. I'm just debating whether
that's going to be too much work, and if I should just go for slate tiles
instead.

Thanks,
Harry

Porcelain Tiles in a tank?
 

"Polarhound" wrote in message
...
Harry Muscle wrote:

Anybody know if porcelain tiles (like the ones that go on the floor) are
safe in an aquarium. Sinks and such are made of porcelain, so the
porcelain
itself is fine, but the tiles are colored porcelain. Anyone know what
kind
of chemicals they use to color porcelain, and if this stuff would be
pretty
well encased inside the porcelain so none of it leaches out? I'm hoping
to
use these tiles for a background.

Check with some of the major pool manufacturers. Pools have been lined
using tiles for decades. Hell, if it's good enough for the YMCA pool...

i don't think they keep fish/inverts in the pool (although that would be
cool), nor do i want to advocate that one start drinking the pool water
there.... ewww.

the epoxy idea actually is pretty reasonable if you ensured that you had
really good coverage on all 6 sides. west marine has some good products, and
they have a sampler set that is pretty cheap.

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az

Porcelain Tiles in a tank?
 

"Charles Spitzer" charlie.spitzer@nospam. .com wrote in message
news:c53q82$cp6$1@transfer. .com...

"Polarhound" wrote in message
...
Harry Muscle wrote:

Anybody know if porcelain tiles (like the ones that go on the floor)
are
safe in an aquarium. Sinks and such are made of porcelain, so the
porcelain
itself is fine, but the tiles are colored porcelain. Anyone know what
kind
of chemicals they use to color porcelain, and if this stuff would be
pretty
well encased inside the porcelain so none of it leaches out? I'm
hoping
to
use these tiles for a background.

Check with some of the major manufacturers. s have been lined
using tiles for decades. Hell, if it's good enough for the YMCA ...

i don't think they keep fish/inverts in the (although that would be
cool), nor do i want to advocate that one start drinking the water
there.... ewww.

the epoxy idea actually is pretty reasonable if you ensured that you had
really good coverage on all 6 sides. west marine has some good products,
and
they have a sampler set that is pretty cheap.

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az



OK, I finally got a hold of someone at the company who makes this tile, and
they admitted that there is actually a glaze on the tile (even though it
looks to me like there isn't), and it does in fact contain lead. They
though it would pose no danger, mentioning that it could even come in
contact with food, etc. and be safe. However, just to be safe, I think I'm
either gonna go the epoxy route, or choose slate tiles instead.

Thanks for everyone's input, greatly appreciated,
Harry

Porcelain Tiles in a tank?
 

I have put the pots use for potting plants in my fish tank for years and I
know it leaches but since I do water changes every week. It is not a
problem.

To test set up a small tank, with two fish and let it set up with the bio
and its cycle. And then boil each tile for 5 minutes and then put them in
the small tank. Note Fill the tank up with the stuff for the test. Over
kill, if you know what I mean. And watch carefully, if the fins start to
drop, they loose there spunk, or develop ick or something.

I Bet that if you do normal water changes nothing will happen.

Looking forward to hearing the results of your tests.

--
Sir Douglas Cook

http://www.greyspace.bravehost.com/
London Ontario Canada
Aquarium Maintenance Man for Hire


"Harry Muscle" wrote in message
...
"Charles Spitzer" charlie.spitzer@nospam. .com wrote in message
news:c53q82$cp6$1@transfer. .com...

"Polarhound" wrote in message
...
Harry Muscle wrote:

Anybody know if porcelain tiles (like the ones that go on the floor)
are
safe in an aquarium. Sinks and such are made of porcelain, so the
porcelain
itself is fine, but the tiles are colored porcelain. Anyone know
what
kind
of chemicals they use to color porcelain, and if this stuff would be
pretty
well encased inside the porcelain so none of it leaches out? I'm
hoping
to
use these tiles for a background.

Check with some of the major manufacturers. s have been
lined
using tiles for decades. Hell, if it's good enough for the YMCA
....

i don't think they keep fish/inverts in the (although that would be
cool), nor do i want to advocate that one start drinking the water
there.... ewww.

the epoxy idea actually is pretty reasonable if you ensured that you had
really good coverage on all 6 sides. west marine has some good products,
and
they have a sampler set that is pretty cheap.

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az



OK, I finally got a hold of someone at the company who makes this tile,
and
they admitted that there is actually a glaze on the tile (even though it
looks to me like there isn't), and it does in fact contain lead. They
though it would pose no danger, mentioning that it could even come in
contact with food, etc. and be safe. However, just to be safe, I think
I'm
either gonna go the epoxy route, or choose slate tiles instead.

Thanks for everyone's input, greatly appreciated,
Harry