Power-Outage Contingency
 

OK---
been getting LOTS of great advice.

Is there a power-outage contingency? What if you go away for a week and the
circuit breakers go? I guess the Live-Rock continues to do some work for a
while---but are there battery systems out there that kick-in in case of
power outage?

Power-Outage Contingency
 

"StringerBell" wrote in message ...
Is there a power-outage contingency? What if you go away for a week and the
circuit breakers go? I guess the Live-Rock continues to do some work for a
while---but are there battery systems out there that kick-in in case of
power outage?

Go get yourself a Sump Pump and Furnace Fan Backup System
http://www.thermotechs.com/Sump%20Pump.htm
http://hometips.com/help/bac1.html
http://www.sump-pump-info.com/batter...mp-system.html

Connect a skimmer and the return pump to it only
to provide necessary water circulation and aeration
during the power outages...

If you are handy, you could build such backup
system yourself with a marine type battery,
12V-120VAC inverter and a simple relay...

The concept is very easy and will last long
hours during power outages... Connect only
minimum neccesary equipment to make battery last.

Power-Outage Contingency
 

Some people use UPS Backup systems, and hook a car battery
to them for long running, then hook this to a pump.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



StringerBell wrote on 8/26/2006 12:24 AM:
OK---
been getting LOTS of great advice.

Is there a power-outage contingency? What if you go away for a week and the
circuit breakers go? I guess the Live-Rock continues to do some work for a
while---but are there battery systems out there that kick-in in case of
power outage?

Power-Outage Contingency
 

Yeah I hooked and inverter up to my car and ran it off of the battery
whenever I have power issues. I lived in SF when the power was out for
6 days and once my GFI recipticle went bad. I was only able to run the
essenatials due to the inverters limitations but it got me through it.

A UPS is not always a good idea since the draw of pumps and various
equipment can change and trip the UPS on power surge. The APC 1500 VA
would be the only one I recommend since it can be eaxpanded to 3000VA
with the extra battery pack.

If you are looking for the long run a small geneterator is the most
reliable and longest running. Honda makes the cheapest, quietest, and
most effiecent for its size.

If you are looking to have an ATS (automatic transfer switch) that is a
good deal more work and requires an experienced, liscenced electrician
to install.

Power-Outage Contingency
 

"Sandbag" wrote in message ps.com...
A UPS is not always a good idea since the draw of pumps and various
equipment can change and trip the UPS on power surge. The APC 1500 VA
would be the only one I recommend since it can be eaxpanded to 3000VA
with the extra battery pack.

Could you explain above? I would have to disagree...

Adding an extra battery pack DOES NOT increase maximum current
the inverter or UPS can deliver. This current limit is based on the inverter
internal design and electronic parts (transistors, fuses) used to build it...
Adding extra battery pack will increase TIME the inverter will work from
the battery with the same load, but will not increase the maximum load.

Power-Outage Contingency
 

Sandbag wrote:

A UPS is not always a good idea since the draw of pumps and various
equipment can change and trip the UPS on power surge. The APC 1500 VA
would be the only one I recommend since it can be eaxpanded to 3000VA
with the extra battery pack.

How long would one of those last? I checked into one to drive the basics for my
125 gallon (mainly the heaters), and the ones I saw wouldn't last long. The
local electric company ran a "rolling blackout" one winter, and I remember
watching the temperature fall in my tank and being unable to do anything. Not a
good feeling.

If you are looking for the long run a small geneterator is the most
reliable and longest running. Honda makes the cheapest, quietest, and
most effiecent for its size.

I was able to buy a generator from Sportsman's Guide for around $200 (including
shipping), but they've gone up a bit. Mine only has enough gas to run for 4
hours, but it will drive all my aquarium equipment. I also use it in my handyman
business. Seemed like a good deal to me.

If you are looking to have an ATS (automatic transfer switch) that is a
good deal more work and requires an experienced, liscenced electrician
to install.

Very true. A whole-house backup generator with ATF would set me back about
$3,000, and the hookup would cost nearly as much. Labor costs in your area might
be lower, however, and you don't *have* to have a generator that can run your
whole house. The Home Depot sells these around here.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

Power-Outage Contingency
 

"George Patterson" wrote in message news:oo1Ig.1432$XD1.1328@trnddc01...
How long would one of those last? I checked into one to drive the basics for my
125 gallon (mainly the heaters), and the ones I saw wouldn't last long. The
local electric company ran a "rolling blackout" one winter, and I remember
watching the temperature fall in my tank and being unable to do anything.
Not a good feeling.

Interesting...
What temperature drops have you observed and how fast ?
How long this blackout usually lasted ?

The idea with backup power is NOT ment for the heaters - they consume
too much power and the battery will exhaust very quickly...
They are ment to sustain water movement/aeration becuse the lack of
oxygen will kill your animals much faster than a slow temperature drop.

Power-Outage Contingency
 

Pszemol wrote:

What temperature drops have you observed and how fast ?

This was years ago, but, IIRC, the outside temperature was in the single digits.
The drop of temperature in the house went from the low 70s to the low 50s or
high 40s in the space of 45 minutes. My tank was either 100 gallons or 125 (I
upgraded during that period). The temperature drop was about 6 degrees, maybe more.

How long this blackout usually lasted ?

They were selectively cutting power to neighborhoods for 45 minute stretches. I
don't remember the details anymore, but they had pulled certain plants off line
to do yearly maintenance (electricity demands are typically less during the
winter), then we had a cold snap. Possibly something else also went wrong.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

Power-Outage Contingency
 

"George Patterson" wrote in message news:%S2Ig.1420$pX3.1301@trnddc07...
Pszemol wrote:

What temperature drops have you observed and how fast ?

This was years ago, but, IIRC, the outside temperature was in the single digits.
The drop of temperature in the house went from the low 70s to the low 50s or
high 40s in the space of 45 minutes. My tank was either 100 gallons or 125 (I
upgraded during that period). The temperature drop was about 6 degrees, maybe more.

I had no idea a whole house can cool down 20F or more in 45 minutes...
But the 100 galons tank going down 6 degrees in the same 45 minutes is a real mistery.

However, even if your termometer was not broken and these numbers are real,
I would still not use the back up power to run heaters... they are not that critical.

Power-Outage Contingency
 

One can heat the water up to 84 degrees, and then a 6
degree drop down to 78 would be not a problem. Or 82
degrees and drop 6 degrees down to 76, still not a
problem. Even dropping down to 72 is not too bad.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



George Patterson wrote on 8/26/2006 5:16 PM:
Pszemol wrote:

What temperature drops have you observed and how fast ?

This was years ago, but, IIRC, the outside temperature was in the single
digits. The drop of temperature in the house went from the low 70s to
the low 50s or high 40s in the space of 45 minutes. My tank was either
100 gallons or 125 (I upgraded during that period). The temperature drop
was about 6 degrees, maybe more.

Power-Outage Contingency
 

Pszemol wrote:

I had no idea a whole house can cool down 20F or more in 45 minutes...

Two story bi-level built in the mid 50s with no insulation and aluminum framed
windows. I was renovating it and had gotten R-19 fiberglass into the attic and
R-13 into the walls of one of the four bedrooms and into the kitchen. I might
have also finished the main bathroom by that time. The rest of the house still
had no insulation (unless you count the aluminum foil vapor barrier it came with).

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

Power-Outage Contingency
 

Wayne Sallee wrote:

Even dropping down to 72 is not too bad.

As I recall, that's about where it wound up.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

Power-Outage Contingency
 

You might want to check this podcast out:

http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/showthread.php?t=784

It has lots of good info and ideas.

Power-Outage Contingency
 

"Adding an extra battery pack DOES NOT increase maximum current
the inverter or UPS can deliver. This current limit is based on the
inverter
internal design and electronic parts (transistors, fuses) used to build
it...
Adding extra battery pack will increase TIME the inverter will work
from
the battery with the same load, but will not increase the maximum
load."

I am sorry if my words were mis-spoken and should have been in Watts
not VA,( =0 sorry i respond to this stuff early in the morning).

What I meant that a UPS is a short run item and should not be used for
sensative equipment unless wet or dry cells are being utilized. Then
there is the whole hydrogen buildup issue. The long and short is a UPS
can come with a bad battery out of the box and will degrade over time
just like any battery source. I will not protect my valuable investment
with a 150$ UPS. Even if you dont have a power bump the UPS will still
charge and recharge the battery every day and you will have no idea how
long it will last unless you do a run test every month or so. Even if a
UPS is rated for 1500VA more than likely you should not run more than
80% of full load.

I installed 35 of the 1500VA models at Genentech and I tested each one
for runtime based on a 100VA draw. Each one was different and two even
had bad batteries. After 6 months the times changes, some dramatically
some not so, but the load never did! I will work if it is all you want
to deal with but I dont recommed it unless you get a sreaming dealon a
decent model.

Power-Outage Contingency
 

"Sandbag" wrote in message oups.com...
"Adding an extra battery pack DOES NOT increase maximum current
the inverter or UPS can deliver. This current limit is based on the
inverter internal design and electronic parts (transistors, fuses) used
to build it...
Adding extra battery pack will increase TIME the inverter will work
from the battery with the same load, but will not increase the
maximum load."

I am sorry if my words were mis-spoken and should have been in Watts
not VA,( =0 sorry i respond to this stuff early in the morning).

No, it does not really matter here - adding extra battery pack does not
increase the UPS maximum load power limits. It does increase "runtime"
(battery discharge time), which is not the same but you seem to mix them two.

I will not protect my valuable investment with a 150$ UPS.

For that kind of price you can build a backup power source yourself
using large "marine" deep cycle acid battery, AC inverter and a power relay
(the 3PDT kind with a coil designed to work with 120V/AC voltage).
And your "investment", how you call it in a funny way, will be properly
protected from power outages lasting many, many hours...

Everybody will do whatever he/she prefers to do
and what makes sense in his/her local situation...
Properly designed backup power source does not have to
cost a fortune - that is the main thing I am trying to say.

Power-Outage Contingency
 

Pszemol wrote on 9/2/2006 4:03 PM:
"Sandbag" wrote in message
oups.com...
"Adding an extra battery pack DOES NOT increase maximum current
the inverter or UPS can deliver. This current limit is based on the
inverter internal design and electronic parts (transistors, fuses) used
to build it...
Adding extra battery pack will increase TIME the inverter will work
from the battery with the same load, but will not increase the
maximum load."

I am sorry if my words were mis-spoken and should have been in Watts
not VA,( =0 sorry i respond to this stuff early in the morning).

No, it does not really matter here - adding extra battery pack does not
increase the UPS maximum load power limits. It does increase "runtime"
(battery discharge time), which is not the same but you seem to mix them
two.


Umm that's what he said.


Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets

Power-Outage Contingency
 

Never mind that, yea he did say watts again :-)

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



Wayne Sallee wrote on 9/2/2006 5:14 PM:


Pszemol wrote on 9/2/2006 4:03 PM:
"Sandbag" wrote in message
oups.com...
"Adding an extra battery pack DOES NOT increase maximum current
the inverter or UPS can deliver. This current limit is based on the
inverter internal design and electronic parts (transistors, fuses) used
to build it...
Adding extra battery pack will increase TIME the inverter will work
from the battery with the same load, but will not increase the
maximum load."

I am sorry if my words were mis-spoken and should have been in Watts
not VA,( =0 sorry i respond to this stuff early in the morning).

No, it does not really matter here - adding extra battery pack does not
increase the UPS maximum load power limits. It does increase "runtime"
(battery discharge time), which is not the same but you seem to mix
them two.


Umm that's what he said.


Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets

Power-Outage Contingency
 

I wish he would use the standard internet style quoting
instead of "quotation marks". Then it would be easier to
quickly read the post.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



Wayne Sallee wrote on 9/2/2006 5:25 PM:
Never mind that, yea he did say watts again :-)

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



Wayne Sallee wrote on 9/2/2006 5:14 PM:


Pszemol wrote on 9/2/2006 4:03 PM:
"Sandbag" wrote in message
oups.com...
"Adding an extra battery pack DOES NOT increase maximum current
the inverter or UPS can deliver. This current limit is based on the
inverter internal design and electronic parts (transistors, fuses) used
to build it...
Adding extra battery pack will increase TIME the inverter will work
from the battery with the same load, but will not increase the
maximum load."

I am sorry if my words were mis-spoken and should have been in Watts
not VA,( =0 sorry i respond to this stuff early in the morning).

No, it does not really matter here - adding extra battery pack does not
increase the UPS maximum load power limits. It does increase "runtime"
(battery discharge time), which is not the same but you seem to mix
them two.


Umm that's what he said.


Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets

Power-Outage Contingency
 

I was just wondering: If the power does go out, wont the Rock continue the
natural filtering for a while?
In other words wouldnt a Live-Rock tank and its inhabitants hold up a bit
longer than an electric filtered tank if faced with a power outage?
If the temperature remained fairly constant, how many days (hours) could a
Live-Rock tank go before conditions and inhabitants started to crash?

Power-Outage Contingency
 

Bacteria in the rock, and bacteria in filters can't do
much without water flow.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



StringerBell wrote on 9/2/2006 6:29 PM:
I was just wondering: If the power does go out, wont the Rock continue the
natural filtering for a while?
In other words wouldnt a Live-Rock tank and its inhabitants hold up a bit
longer than an electric filtered tank if faced with a power outage?
If the temperature remained fairly constant, how many days (hours) could a
Live-Rock tank go before conditions and inhabitants started to crash?

Power-Outage Contingency
 

StringerBell wrote:

In other words wouldnt a Live-Rock tank and its inhabitants hold up a bit
longer than an electric filtered tank if faced with a power outage?

No. The bacteria die at about the same rate in either case.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

Power-Outage Contingency
 

"StringerBell" wrote in message ...
I was just wondering: If the power does go out, wont the Rock continue the
natural filtering for a while?
In other words wouldnt a Live-Rock tank and its inhabitants hold up a bit
longer than an electric filtered tank if faced with a power outage?
If the temperature remained fairly constant, how many days (hours) could a
Live-Rock tank go before conditions and inhabitants started to crash?

The key is water circulation and oxygenation.
If this is missing - the tank will convert quickly to a stinking dump.