swimming in circles, nose to the bottom
 

does anyone know what causes a fish to swim in circles with it's nose to the
bottom? obviously it's in distress, in fact I'm sure it's dying, but is
there any danger to my other fish? Is this contagious? Help--this is my
first tank.

Thanks.

--
Message posted via PetKB.com
http://www.petkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx...water/200609/1

swimming in circles, nose to the bottom
 

"Jules59 via PetKB.com" u25279@uwe wrote in news:660be06df6350@uwe:

does anyone know what causes a fish to swim in circles with it's nose
to the bottom? obviously it's in distress, in fact I'm sure it's
dying, but is there any danger to my other fish? Is this contagious?
Help--this is my first tank.

What you are seeing is a symptom which could potentially have many
causes.

An advanced internal F. columnaris bacterial infection can cause this
symptom. Do you see any large whitish patches on or just beneath the
fish's flesh? This disease is not really communicable, but the poor
living conditions required for an infection to take place are common so
the disease may affect more than one fish.

Fungal infections, such as Ichthyophoniasis, can cause this symptom as
well. Do you see any darkening of the skin, does the flesh look rough,
or does the fish appear to be emaciated?

A variety of internal parasites that damage muscle or nerve tissue can
cause this symptom as well.

Ichthyophoniasis is communicable as are most parasites.

I could have been ammonia poisoning. Ammonia (not ammonium) is capable
of crossing the blood-brain barrier to destroy nerve tissue.

For lack of any other symptom it could have been something like a
stroke, or just the last desperate struggle of a weak fish near death.

If you cannot observe any other symptoms besides the crippled swimming
pattern your best bet is to test your water quality... even if there are
other symptoms that would be a good place to start anyway.

If this is your first tank and it is still rather new my first suspect
is ammonia poisoning.

If your tank tests clean then I would suggest removing the dying fish to
reduce the possible treat of transmission of any unknown pathogens.
Many parasites and internal fungal infections are believed to be
transmitted through injection of infected tissue.

swimming in circles, nose to the bottom
 

Thank you for your input. If it's a fungal infection, is there anything you
can do to help the fish? It's still alive after 2 days of this, and I hate
to just "remove" it if there's any help at all. The water tests fine and no
other symptom is present. Thank you.

dc wrote:
does anyone know what causes a fish to swim in circles with it's nose
to the bottom? obviously it's in distress, in fact I'm sure it's
dying, but is there any danger to my other fish? Is this contagious?
Help--this is my first tank.

What you are seeing is a symptom which could potentially have many
causes.

An advanced internal F. columnaris bacterial infection can cause this
symptom. Do you see any large whitish patches on or just beneath the
fish's flesh? This disease is not really communicable, but the poor
living conditions required for an infection to take place are common so
the disease may affect more than one fish.

Fungal infections, such as Ichthyophoniasis, can cause this symptom as
well. Do you see any darkening of the skin, does the flesh look rough,
or does the fish appear to be emaciated?

A variety of internal parasites that damage muscle or nerve tissue can
cause this symptom as well.

Ichthyophoniasis is communicable as are most parasites.

I could have been ammonia poisoning. Ammonia (not ammonium) is capable
of crossing the blood-brain barrier to destroy nerve tissue.

For lack of any other symptom it could have been something like a
stroke, or just the last desperate struggle of a weak fish near death.

If you cannot observe any other symptoms besides the crippled swimming
pattern your best bet is to test your water quality... even if there are
other symptoms that would be a good place to start anyway.

If this is your first tank and it is still rather new my first suspect
is ammonia poisoning.

If your tank tests clean then I would suggest removing the dying fish to
reduce the possible treat of transmission of any unknown pathogens.
Many parasites and internal fungal infections are believed to be
transmitted through injection of infected tissue.

--
Message posted via PetKB.com
http://www.petkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx...water/200609/1

swimming in circles, nose to the bottom
 

On Sat, 09 Sep 2006 19:12:00 GMT, "Jules59 via PetKB.com" u25279@uwe
wrote:

does anyone know what causes a fish to swim in circles with it's nose to the
bottom? obviously it's in distress, in fact I'm sure it's dying, but is
there any danger to my other fish? Is this contagious? Help--this is my
first tank.

Thanks.

I don't have an answer, just a suggestion, talk to your local fish
store.

In my experience, odd swimming behavior was probably related to a
failure of the float bladder. I have never seen it spread to other
fish. One White Cloud lived for a year. It learned to swim to the
bottom then float to the top. It seems possible for a float bladder
to remain empty, thus making it hard for the fish to get off the
bottom.

If you learn more, I hope you will share.

I hope you can avoid feeling guilt. I suffer guilt feelings with
every sick or dead fish. I almost have a mantra, "fish and all things
living die."

dick

swimming in circles, nose to the bottom
 

"Jules59 via PetKB.com" u25279@uwe wrote in news:660e362f81a7f@uwe:

Thank you for your input. If it's a fungal infection, is there
anything you can do to help the fish? It's still alive after 2 days

Not if it's Ichthyophoniasis; there are no reliable treatments and the
disease is resistant to most anti-fungal treatments.

Chances are it is not Ichthyophoniasis. I would caution against assuming it
is without observing a range of other symptoms. Fungus is a word used far
too haphazardly in aquaria.

Like I said it can be due to anything--bacteria, TB, fungus, parasites,
injury, toxic shock, etc. Without any other symptoms there is no way to
even guess at a diagnosis.

If you are unable to isolate the affected fish and unwilling to remove it,
then your only reasonable recourse may be to use aquarium salt to reduce
the osmotic stress on the sick fish. If the condition is do to injury or
some other minor insult than lowering the stress level of the fish may be
enough to help it recover... maybe.

Usually when a fish is in this condition with no obvious causes there is
little you can do to bring it back to health.

Have you tested your water yet?

swimming in circles, nose to the bottom
 

Dick ...I'm going to look into the float bladder thing. I had a zoology
teacher that might know something about it and I'll email him. I'll let you
know if I find anything out...thanks very much.

Dick wrote:
does anyone know what causes a fish to swim in circles with it's nose to the
bottom? obviously it's in distress, in fact I'm sure it's dying, but is
there any danger to my other fish? Is this contagious? Help--this is my
first tank.

Thanks.

I don't have an answer, just a suggestion, talk to your local fish
store.

In my experience, odd swimming behavior was probably related to a
failure of the float bladder. I have never seen it spread to other
fish. One White Cloud lived for a year. It learned to swim to the
bottom then float to the top. It seems possible for a float bladder
to remain empty, thus making it hard for the fish to get off the
bottom.

If you learn more, I hope you will share.

I hope you can avoid feeling guilt. I suffer guilt feelings with
every sick or dead fish. I almost have a mantra, "fish and all things
living die."

dick

--
Message posted via http://www.petkb.com

swimming in circles, nose to the bottom
 

Dick wrote in
:

In my experience, odd swimming behavior was probably related to a
failure of the float bladder. I have never seen it spread to other

Swim bladder damage is another possibility, however the fact that the fish
can only swim in a circle suggests that there is muscle or nerve damage
involved as well.

Difficulty staying neutrally buoyant is usually more typically akin to swim
bladder problems, but that can also be due to gastro-intestinal problems as
well--a condition common to goldfish. Usually if the condition is
transient the later is responsible. Increasing the amount of vegetable
fiber in a fish's diet can often help with gastro-intestinal conditions.

swimming in circles, nose to the bottom
 

Jules59 via PetKB.com wrote:
Dick ...I'm going to look into the float bladder thing. I had a zoology
teacher that might know something about it and I'll email him. I'll let you
know if I find anything out...thanks very much.


I do not think this is a swim bladder problem either.
dc pointed out the more likely scenarios. I your water parameters are
fine (no ammonia or nitrite, 80 ppm Kh or more), I would consider a
relatively safe treatment of Pimafix either in your main aquarium or a
hospital aquarium. Metronidazole is effective for some problems you
described if caused by a parisite. Another treatment that is organic is
to use Usnea lichen in a boiled tea form, this has strong anti-fungal
and anti-parasite properties and I have used this where other treatment
have failed.

Carl

swimming in circles, nose to the bottom
 

Hello--yes I tested the water and it is fine. zthe spinning fish is still
spinning and still hanging in there, even today. Here's another question...I
have a flying fox in this tank, that we removed from our large tank because
the other fish were attacking it and one of it's tail fins was injured (looks
like it was bitten off). We found the fish swimming at the top of the tank
with it's nose up, and it would not go down. We finally got a good look at
it and it was injured. It is still alive, but it seems to be losing it's
gold stripe. It seems rather sad, too...doesn't swim much, whereas before it
was a zoomer. I don't know what to do for him.


dc wrote:
Thank you for your input. If it's a fungal infection, is there
anything you can do to help the fish? It's still alive after 2 days

Not if it's Ichthyophoniasis; there are no reliable treatments and the
disease is resistant to most anti-fungal treatments.

Chances are it is not Ichthyophoniasis. I would caution against assuming it
is without observing a range of other symptoms. Fungus is a word used far
too haphazardly in aquaria.

Like I said it can be due to anything--bacteria, TB, fungus, parasites,
injury, toxic shock, etc. Without any other symptoms there is no way to
even guess at a diagnosis.

If you are unable to isolate the affected fish and unwilling to remove it,
then your only reasonable recourse may be to use aquarium salt to reduce
the osmotic stress on the sick fish. If the condition is do to injury or
some other minor insult than lowering the stress level of the fish may be
enough to help it recover... maybe.

Usually when a fish is in this condition with no obvious causes there is
little you can do to bring it back to health.

Have you tested your water yet?

--
Message posted via PetKB.com
http://www.petkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx...water/200609/1

swimming in circles, nose to the bottom
 

Jules59 via PetKB.com wrote:
Hello--yes I tested the water and it is fine. zthe spinning fish is still
spinning and still hanging in there, even today. Here's another question...I
have a flying fox in this tank, that we removed from our large tank because
the other fish were attacking it and one of it's tail fins was injured (looks
like it was bitten off). We found the fish swimming at the top of the tank
with it's nose up, and it would not go down. We finally got a good look at
it and it was injured. It is still alive, but it seems to be losing it's
gold stripe. It seems rather sad, too...doesn't swim much, whereas before it
was a zoomer. I don't know what to do for him.

You already did step one. Next I would recommend a methylene Blue dip
and and maybe a little Neosporin on the affected area. Then I would
treat the hospital aquarium with Melafix or Pimafix, or an antibiotic
such as Triple Sulfa or Nitrofurazone.
I have some more information about medications he
http://aquarium-medictions.blogspot.com/

Carl

swimming in circles, nose to the bottom
 

"Jules59 via PetKB.com" u25279@uwe wrote in news:6617664f13288@uwe:

question...I have a flying fox in this tank, that we removed from our
large tank because the other fish were attacking it and one of it's
tail fins was injured (looks like it was bitten off). We found the

Carlrs's suggestions for treating the injured fox are good. The
Methylene blue dip will help kill any attached opportunistic bacteria
and fungal spores, and the Mela/Pimafix treatment will help prevent
further infection in the quarantine tank (or wherever you are treating
it).

I would also suggest using aquariums salt for this fish as well. The
aquarium salt will help prevent a true fungal infection, but more
importantly it will help offset the enormous internal osmotic imbalance
this injury will have caused the fish.

A wound presents water with an easier route to flow into the fish's body
than just its porous skin. Aquarium salt will increase the hardness of
the water and reduce the osmotic stress on the fish's kidneys and gills
to rid itself of this excessive influx of water.

Reducing the stress level is key for the recovery of any sick or injured
animal.

Quarantine tanks are great for these situations too because not only are
they easier to medicate than a large maintenance tank, but they also
remove the fish from the environment that directly or indirectly
generated the stress the fish is experiencing in the first place.

swimming in circles, nose to the bottom
 

"Jules59 via PetKB.com" u25279@uwe wrote in message
news:660be06df6350@uwe...
does anyone know what causes a fish to swim in circles with it's nose to
the
bottom? obviously it's in distress, in fact I'm sure it's dying, but is
there any danger to my other fish? Is this contagious? Help--this is my
first tank.

Thanks.

--
Message posted via PetKB.com
http://www.petkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx...water/200609/1


Mate before you do anything else you need to do a nitrite test on your
water.
If there is ANY nitrite in the water you need to back off on the
feeding/fish buying and ride it out.
Clean your filter sponges in aquarium water.
How long has the tank been setup and how do you clean/filter it?