Power filter for 20 gallon tank?
 

After being out of the hobby for 20 years I plan to set up a 20 gallon
freshwater tropical aquarium soon. I am an experienced aquarist, having
been in the hobby for 20 years.
For ten years I worked at Ed's Tropical Aquarium, a pet store in
Lynbrook, New York.

I want to keep it simple, and easy enough for my 10 year old daughter
Elizabeth
to help maintain. I plan on using an UGF with powerhead, and a power
filter.
Sadly gone now is my favorite line, the Supreme Aquamasters, made right
here
on Long Island. So I guess I am stuck with the more modern cartridge
models.

Can any of them use bulk floss, carbon, and other inexpensive filter
media?

And which brands are quietest? We sold Whisper, Hagen, and Marineland,
all of which buzzed loudly. Are the TetraTec or Eheim Liberty models
quiet?

Recommendations, please...

TIA,
Christopher Platt

Power filter for 20 gallon tank?
 

wrote in message
oups.com...
After being out of the hobby for 20 years I plan to set up a 20 gallon
freshwater tropical aquarium soon. I am an experienced aquarist, having
been in the hobby for 20 years.
For ten years I worked at Ed's Tropical Aquarium, a pet store in
Lynbrook, New York.

Then you must also know FishTown USA in Queens. I believe it was on
Northern Blvd, not far from Francis Lewis Blvd.


I want to keep it simple, and easy enough for my 10 year old daughter
Elizabeth
to help maintain. I plan on using an UGF with powerhead, and a power
filter.

UGFs have fallen out of favor with many people. It's too hard to remove the
mulm that collects under them. Some people say plants don't do well over
them either.

Sadly gone now is my favorite line, the Supreme Aquamasters, made right
here
on Long Island. So I guess I am stuck with the more modern cartridge
models.

I wouldn't touch a cartridge model. I use Aquaclears which use sponges and
small bags of bio-beads. You just rinse them off and reuse. I have ACs
still running since 1987 or 88. They're not expensive and they're real
workhorses.

Can any of them use bulk floss, carbon, and other inexpensive filter
media?

Look at the Aquaclears (ACs).

And which brands are quietest? We sold Whisper, Hagen, and Marineland,
all of which buzzed loudly. Are the TetraTec or Eheim Liberty models
quiet?

All but one of my ACs are dead silent.

--
KL....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

Power filter for 20 gallon tank?
 

Undergravel filters have fallen out of favor you say? Surprising if
true.
They always worked very well for me - if used in conjunction with a
power filter.
Typically UGF filters only failed for my customers who mistakenly
relied on them
as their sole means of filtration.

I never experienced a mulm buildup, even in long-established tanks,
with and
without plants. My only negative experience with an UGF was when I
tried a
reverse-flow setup - the fish seemed stressed by the constant upward
current.

Chris

Power filter for 20 gallon tank?
 

wrote in message
oups.com...
Undergravel filters have fallen out of favor you say? Surprising if
true.
They always worked very well for me - if used in conjunction with a
power filter.

Then go for it. :-) No one I know uses them anymore.

Typically UGF filters only failed for my customers who mistakenly
relied on them
as their sole means of filtration.

Failure wasn't the problem. Getting the crud out from under them was.
Also, some people like live plants and claim they don't do well with an
UGF.

I never experienced a mulm buildup, even in long-established tanks,
with and
without plants.

Really? Where did the mulm go that was sucked into and under the gravel?

My only negative experience with an UGF was when I
tried a
reverse-flow setup - the fish seemed stressed by the constant upward
current.

Chris

--
KL....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

Power filter for 20 gallon tank?
 

Köi-Lö $##$$@$##$$.#$$ wrote in news:4507665d$0$15906
:

Also, some people like live plants and claim they don't do well with an
UGF.

They do fine. As much as I dislike UGFs, we use them at work because
they're dirt cheap and you never have to replace any part of it. My own
tank at work runs on one and probably has more plant material in it now
than water.

The real issue is the UGF is very hard to clean without disturbing your
plants. This is less of an issue if your UGF is not your primary filter.



Really? Where did the mulm go that was sucked into and under the gravel?

Most of the mulm remains trapped in the gravel; what passes under the plate
is generally pulled out by the powerhead and blasted back into the tank--
eventually settling back into the gravel. After an extended amount of time
(years) some significant material does build-up under the plate, but it is
usually easily pulled back out of the plate through normal gravel
siphoning.

I suppose if one used airstones intead of a powerhead mulm deposits beneath
the plate would be more of a problem.

Again... not a fan of the UGF myself. I do not use them away from work.
They are too much of a hassle than they are worth IMHO.

Power filter for 20 gallon tank?
 

"dc" wrote in message
...
Köi-Lö $##$$@$##$$.#$$ wrote in news:4507665d$0$15906
:

Also, some people like live plants and claim they don't do well with an
UGF.

They do fine. As much as I dislike UGFs, we use them at work because
they're dirt cheap and you never have to replace any part of it.

The powerheads to run them needed replacement about every 18 months.

My own
tank at work runs on one and probably has more plant material in it now
than water.

I had no problem with plants and UGFs either but then I have really tough
plants. ;-)

The real issue is the UGF is very hard to clean without disturbing your
plants. This is less of an issue if your UGF is not your primary filter.

It wasn't my primary filter and still mulm would collect under the plates.

Really? Where did the mulm go that was sucked into and under the gravel?

Most of the mulm remains trapped in the gravel; what passes under the
plate
is generally pulled out by the powerhead and blasted back into the tank--
eventually settling back into the gravel.

In my tanks there would be a collection of mulm on the tank bottom. You
could see it by looking up at the tank's bottom. My stands don't have solid
tops.

After an extended amount of time
(years) some significant material does build-up under the plate, but it is
usually easily pulled back out of the plate through normal gravel
siphoning.

The gravel vac didn't have enough suction to pull it up through the plates
and gravel. I would shimmy a hose down the uplift tubes and squiggle it
around trying to suck up as much mulm as possible..... one day I said to
hell with this and removed them altogether as my friends were doing.

I suppose if one used airstones intead of a powerhead mulm deposits
beneath
the plate would be more of a problem.

I used both. Powerheads on the 30L and both 55gs and airstones on the 10s.
All the UGFs are now stored in the outbuilding. :-)

Again... not a fan of the UGF myself. I do not use them away from work.
They are too much of a hassle than they are worth IMHO.

I agree.
--
KL....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

Power filter for 20 gallon tank?
 

wrote:
After being out of the hobby for 20 years I plan to set up a 20 gallon
freshwater tropical aquarium soon. I am an experienced aquarist, having
been in the hobby for 20 years.
For ten years I worked at Ed's Tropical Aquarium, a pet store in
Lynbrook, New York.

I want to keep it simple, and easy enough for my 10 year old daughter
Elizabeth
to help maintain. I plan on using an UGF with powerhead, and a power
filter.
Sadly gone now is my favorite line, the Supreme Aquamasters, made right
here
on Long Island. So I guess I am stuck with the more modern cartridge
models.

Can any of them use bulk floss, carbon, and other inexpensive filter
media?

And which brands are quietest? We sold Whisper, Hagen, and Marineland,
all of which buzzed loudly. Are the TetraTec or Eheim Liberty models
quiet?

Recommendations, please...

TIA,
Christopher Platt

Hi Christopher.
Being out of the hobby for 20 yrs, we've come along way.
Forget about the UGF. Much, much better options out there now a days
and an UGF is just a cess pool waiting to happen.
Go with a power filter (HOB..hang on back). I like the ones that have
both the filter pad for catching debris and a Bio Wheel.
The Bio Wheel is simply a place for the nirtifying bacteria to grow in
large numbers.
You spoke of Wisper, Hagen and Marineland filters as "buzzing loudly"?
I'm confused. The filters buzzed? If they made any sort of buzzing they
weren't running properly or the water level wasn't correct.
Now if you were talking about pumps, I can see those buzzing, but you
won't need any pumps making any noises with a HOB filter.
That right there was a huge plus for the hobby.
Also, being out for 20 yrs...they have Pythons now. They hook up to the
faucet, flip a switch and it drains the tank for you while you vacuum
the gravel. Go back to the faucet, adjust the temp to closest to the
tank water, add dechlor directly to the tank, flip the switch and
you're then refilling the tank.
No more buckets. Yippy, yea, yahoooooo!
Now for cycling, find yourself a shop that sells Bio Spira.
This is the one bacteria starter that contains the correct bacteria in
it and will cyle a tank in 24 hours, and then it's ready for full
stocking!
None of the other ones work, such as Cycle, Stress Zyme, Bio Zyme, etc.
They all have the wrong bacteria in them and don't help the start up
bacteria.
They can get away with claiming it does because they contain a later
stage bacteria....however that doesn't help a brand new set up at all.
I think they should be taken off the market because they're lying to
unknowledgeable hobbyists. Too shady.

Power filter for 20 gallon tank?
 

I helped maintain 100+ tanks at the store, and experience taught me
that
the key to maintaining a healthy aquarium is frequent partial water
changes.
No filter or chemical can replace this.

At home I changed 10% per week religiously, stirring up the gravel
so the power filter could remove some of the detritus. My fish
thrived.

When I had several tanks I used a diatom filter to "polish" the water,
sometimes boosted with a clearing aid (flocculent) like Acurel F.

Another thing working in the store taught me is to be wary of
advertising
and salesmen's claims...

"Excelsior, you fathead!"
-Chris-

Power filter for 20 gallon tank?
 

wrote:
I helped maintain 100+ tanks at the store, and experience taught me
that
the key to maintaining a healthy aquarium is frequent partial water
changes.
No filter or chemical can replace this.

At home I changed 10% per week religiously, stirring up the gravel
so the power filter could remove some of the detritus. My fish
thrived.

When I had several tanks I used a diatom filter to "polish" the water,
sometimes boosted with a clearing aid (flocculent) like Acurel F.

Another thing working in the store taught me is to be wary of
advertising
and salesmen's claims...

"Excelsior, you fathead!"
-Chris-

Chris...
You never answered my questions about what the "buzzing" noises.
Were they coming from the actual filter?
Was it a pump?
Are you going to choose a HOB filter, etc?
Oh.... absolutely water changes should be done weekly, but you were
speaking of filters.
And was the "salemen's" comment towards me, or just a general comment?
If it was towards me, I can assure you I am no sales person.
Just another hobbyist who's been in it seriously for many years.

Power filter for 20 gallon tank?
 

wrote:
After being out of the hobby for 20 years I plan to set up a 20 gallon
freshwater tropical aquarium soon. I am an experienced aquarist, having
been in the hobby for 20 years.
For ten years I worked at Ed's Tropical Aquarium, a pet store in
Lynbrook, New York.

I want to keep it simple, and easy enough for my 10 year old daughter
Elizabeth
to help maintain. I plan on using an UGF with powerhead, and a power
filter.
Sadly gone now is my favorite line, the Supreme Aquamasters, made right
here
on Long Island. So I guess I am stuck with the more modern cartridge
models.

Can any of them use bulk floss, carbon, and other inexpensive filter
media?

And which brands are quietest? We sold Whisper, Hagen, and Marineland,
all of which buzzed loudly. Are the TetraTec or Eheim Liberty models
quiet?

Recommendations, please...

TIA,
Christopher Platt

You mentioned buzzing, some of the first generation HOB filters such as
the Marineland (not Penguin models) and Living World did buzz (these
units had a lot of moving parts and tended to trap carbon or sand under
their impellers). The newer designs are fairly quiet, and the better
designed housings with more durable ceramic shaft impellers are quieter
yet. Unfortunately not all power heads and even less HOB filters have
gone to the ceramic shaft and hardened epoxy electro-magnet motor.
I prefer a HOB with a Filter Max pre filter attached to filter out
large debris and provide better bio filtration, even when the filter
media is changed.
I also have used UGFs with success, but they can be more work, and I
think there are better alternatives. If you do go with a UGF, do not
use Hagen or ML power heads, they do only last about 18 months. Frankly
their technology is 20 years old. The Rios have improved on them and
the Via Aqua have improved on the Rio and now the ReSun has improved on
the Via Aqua (although the Via Aqua and to ta lessor degree, the Rio
are still good pumps).
I would recommend a HOB (I prefer ReSun or Whisper, but the others are
good too)with a sponge pre filter, and an internal filter or sponge
filter for redundancy.
Here is a little more filter info:
http://aquarium-filters.blogspot.com/

Carl

Power filter for 20 gallon tank?
 

The 60Hz buzzing sound came from the impeller and magnetic drive assy,
of course. And the filter box acted as a resonator, amplifying the
sound.
I tried AquaClear and Aquaclear Jr. filters, and both made similar
noise.

I find the constant splashing sound of the water spilling back into the
tank
annoying, too. Maybe I should consider other options like a canister
filter.
Or I could get lucky and find an old Aquamaster on eBay or at a yard
sale...

"Excelsior, you fathead!"
-Chris-

Power filter for 20 gallon tank?
 

I wasn't accusing anyone of being a salesman.
*I* was the salesman. But FWIW, and honest one.

In the store we used many of the products we sold,
so I knew which ones worked and which didn't.

In fact I spent much of my time dispelling the misleading
claims of advertisers, and discouraging the purchase of
products that didn't suit the customer's needs.

Thanks to advertising and other misinformation,
talking a customer out of purchasing a bad item
can be harder than selling it to them...

"Excelsior, you fathead!"
-Chris-

Power filter for 20 gallon tank?
 

wrote:
The 60Hz buzzing sound came from the impeller and magnetic drive assy,
of course. And the filter box acted as a resonator, amplifying the
sound.
I tried AquaClear and Aquaclear Jr. filters, and both made similar
noise.

I find the constant splashing sound of the water spilling back into the
tank
annoying, too. Maybe I should consider other options like a canister
filter.
Or I could get lucky and find an old Aquamaster on eBay or at a yard
sale...

"Excelsior, you fathead!"
-Chris-

I had no idea the older models buzzed.
I used sponge filters back then, and by the time I started using HOB's,
they didn't make any noises like that so I couldn't figure out what you
were talking about, LOL.
Sorry for the confusion. = )

Power filter for 20 gallon tank?
 

wrote:

In fact I spent much of my time dispelling the misleading
claims of advertisers, and discouraging the purchase of
products that didn't suit the customer's needs.

Thanks to advertising and other misinformation,
talking a customer out of purchasing a bad item
can be harder than selling it to them...

-Chris-

Amen to that! Been there, done that.

Carl

Power filter for 20 gallon tank?
 

marineland are worthy
Penguin 330, it's gonna be way overkill but hey at least ya can get rid of
the undergravel filter.
Cheap filter media is more expensive than stuff you can just rinse too.




wrote in message
oups.com...
After being out of the hobby for 20 years I plan to set up a 20 gallon
freshwater tropical aquarium soon. I am an experienced aquarist, having
been in the hobby for 20 years.
For ten years I worked at Ed's Tropical Aquarium, a pet store in
Lynbrook, New York.

I want to keep it simple, and easy enough for my 10 year old daughter
Elizabeth
to help maintain. I plan on using an UGF with powerhead, and a power
filter.
Sadly gone now is my favorite line, the Supreme Aquamasters, made right
here
on Long Island. So I guess I am stuck with the more modern cartridge
models.

Can any of them use bulk floss, carbon, and other inexpensive filter
media?

And which brands are quietest? We sold Whisper, Hagen, and Marineland,
all of which buzzed loudly. Are the TetraTec or Eheim Liberty models
quiet?

Recommendations, please...

TIA,
Christopher Platt

Power filter for 20 gallon tank?
 

Again... not a fan of the UGF myself. I do not use them away from work.
They are too much of a hassle than they are worth IMHO.

rodger that.
would rather use an airpowered sponge filter or fbf meself.
too many tanks to clean to stuff around pulling out plates!

Power filter for 20 gallon tank?
 

swarvegorilla wrote:
Again... not a fan of the UGF myself. I do not use them away from work.
They are too much of a hassle than they are worth IMHO.

rodger that.
would rather use an airpowered sponge filter or fbf meself.
too many tanks to clean to stuff around pulling out plates!

I will add to this mention that I find sponge pre-filters are a useful
addition to any HOB filter as they improve bio filtration and preserve
bio colonies when the cartrdge or other filter media is changed. They
are simple to attach to your penguin or any other HOB filter.

Carl

Power filter for 20 gallon tank?
 

"carlrs" wrote in message
oups.com...

swarvegorilla wrote:
Again... not a fan of the UGF myself. I do not use them away from work.
They are too much of a hassle than they are worth IMHO.

rodger that.
would rather use an airpowered sponge filter or fbf meself.
too many tanks to clean to stuff around pulling out plates!

I will add to this mention that I find sponge pre-filters are a useful
addition to any HOB filter as they improve bio filtration and preserve
bio colonies when the cartrdge or other filter media is changed. They
are simple to attach to your penguin or any other HOB filter.

Carl


True..... just remember to clean them first if you notice a slow in filter
flow.
I like using a nice sized block of coarse foam.
No sense stripping down the whole filter if all that needs a rinse in
aquarium water is the prefilter sponge.
Also doubles in the advent of a blackout as a battery powered air sponge
filter with a few quick mods.

ehlpful bunch eh? :)

Power filter for 20 gallon tank?
 

I found a nice new, old stock Supreme Aquamaster
PMEA power filter on eBay, and won the auction.
I paid about $5.00 more than what I sold them for,
but it will be worth every penny IMO.

So while you guys laugh at me fussing with
bulk filter floss and activated carbon in a nylon bag,
I can laugh at you spending all that money
on those expensive filter cartridges. ;)

I have a great record of success with undergravel filters.
Despite your objections, my next step is to find a nice
Nektonics-style one piece UGF plate and power head.

Which brand and model small power head is quietest?

So here's to happy endings!
And new beginnings...

Cheers,
Chris

Power filter for 20 gallon tank?
 

wrote:
I found a nice new, old stock Supreme Aquamaster
PMEA power filter on eBay, and won the auction.
I paid about $5.00 more than what I sold them for,
but it will be worth every penny IMO.

So while you guys laugh at me fussing with
bulk filter floss and activated carbon in a nylon bag,
I can laugh at you spending all that money
on those expensive filter cartridges. ;)

I have a great record of success with undergravel filters.
Despite your objections, my next step is to find a nice
Nektonics-style one piece UGF plate and power head.

Which brand and model small power head is quietest?

So here's to happy endings!
And new beginnings...

Cheers,
Chris

I do not think UGF are bad, as I have used them for years, especially
in store set ups, They just have a problem with build up under the
plates, which can be 'blown out". They are also not very good for
planted aquariums which are popular than the were 20 years ago.
As for your Nektonics UGF, They are by far the best, Their design does
not allow as much bio muck and has higher flow rates with the same air
pumps or power heads (I have clocked the flow out of the discharge
using a pitcher and and stop watch).
As for price there are reliable HOB filters available for under $20
usd, but your filter is certainly a good deal!
As for the a good quiet power head, I have gone all the generations of
power heads in our aquarium service business, using many in very harsh
envirements. We went from the Hagen and Marineland in the 80s to the
Rios in the early 90s, to the Via Aquas and now the ReSun. I have found
the Via Aqua and even more so with the new generation ReSun to be the
most reliable and with best designed impellers for quiet operation.

Carl

Power filter for 20 gallon tank?
 

The dealer I am buying the power filter from
has two models in stock at a bargain price.

Are either of these any good?:
Penguin by Marineland model 660 PH 170 GPH
Power Sweep model 214 by Zoo Med PS-20 160 GPH

TIA,
Chris

Power filter for 20 gallon tank?
 

wrote:
The dealer I am buying the power filter from
has two models in stock at a bargain price.

Are either of these any good?:
Penguin by Marineland model 660 PH 170 GPH
Power Sweep model 214 by Zoo Med PS-20 160 GPH

TIA,
Chris


I have used both these models and sold the ZooMed PS-20.
I discontinued the ML 660 years ago due to too many impeller problems.
The ML is old (1980s) technology. The Zoo Med is a OK, but a weak power
head. I only recommend it for small aquariums, and it has poor head
pressure, so it is a poor power head for UGF. I usually only sold the
ZM to customers with Vivariums.

Carl

Power filter for 20 gallon tank?
 

I appreciate the advice, Carl. I think I'll give the Zoo Med PS20 a
try.
I don't want a strong current - I plan on having placid fish, like
angels.
When that powerhead dies I'll try one of the others you recommend.

I was happy to see a nice Festivum at the local pet store today.
Are Geophagus Jurapari and Kribensis still commonly available?

Chris

Power filter for 20 gallon tank?
 

wrote:
I appreciate the advice, Carl. I think I'll give the Zoo Med PS20 a
try.
I don't want a strong current - I plan on having placid fish, like
angels.
When that powerhead dies I'll try one of the others you recommend.

I was happy to see a nice Festivum at the local pet store today.
Are Geophagus Jurapari and Kribensis still commonly available?

Chris

I have not seen the Geophagus around lately, but the Jurapari and
Kribensis are quite common. Someone else here may no more about
Geophagus though..

Carl

Power filter for 20 gallon tank?
 

wrote in message
ups.com...
I found a nice new, old stock Supreme Aquamaster
PMEA power filter on eBay, and won the auction.
I paid about $5.00 more than what I sold them for,
but it will be worth every penny IMO.

So while you guys laugh at me fussing with
bulk filter floss and activated carbon in a nylon bag,
I can laugh at you spending all that money
on those expensive filter cartridges. ;)


No, I buy bulk foams of all grades thru a supplier in china.
I merely throw the replacement cartridge to someone who wants it and throw
in a slab of foam.
Maybe I make it a sandwhich of 5 grades of foam
all of which can be merely squeezed out in aquarium water and reused until I
use 'em as a pillow in me coffin.
buy once, buy right
use forever
of course then I fill the tray with some ceramic nooodle and wedge airstones
deep in its guts thru da lid.
could always rip out the impellor
and connect a powerhead to the intake
then ya got a powered prefilter powering an unplugged in (hey use a broken
one!) hangon..... best bit is, that it restarts in a electrical blackout
even if the hangon has syphoned dry.
I clean the powerhead sponge, and for powerheads I rate OTTO
they are cheap, easy to repair and die hard even in tanks with lots of
stirred up sand.
the sponges are good quality and even make great biofiltration stacked in
slow flow hangons where contact time enables better filtration




I have a great record of success with undergravel filters.
Despite your objections, my next step is to find a nice
Nektonics-style one piece UGF plate and power head.

Yea UGF suck hard
they have their place
but compared to the fluval fx5 they suck mighty hard
that said
the theory is sound and they shall be revered forever as pioneers of
biofiltration
but they are some what unpredictable and need maintenence.
but if they work for you, or ya need a hidden intank filter
then use on I say
but for me
I'd fire 'em at da sun with a rocket to make room for sponge air filters.


Which brand and model small power head is quietest?


Tunze

So here's to happy endings!
And new beginnings...

Cheers,
Chris



Well said!
Theres a million ways to keep fish mate
to each his own hey
all that matters is happy fish
and I wish ya tank loads of da suckers!

Power filter for 20 gallon tank?
 

"carlrs" wrote in message
oups.com...

wrote:
I appreciate the advice, Carl. I think I'll give the Zoo Med PS20 a
try.
I don't want a strong current - I plan on having placid fish, like
angels.
When that powerhead dies I'll try one of the others you recommend.

I was happy to see a nice Festivum at the local pet store today.
Are Geophagus Jurapari and Kribensis still commonly available?

Chris

I have not seen the Geophagus around lately, but the Jurapari and
Kribensis are quite common. Someone else here may no more about
Geophagus though..

Carl


the jurapari is a geo
ummm anyway theres

G. sp. Araguaia orange head
G. sp. Tapajos orange head
G. sp. "Pindare" (Parnaiba)
G. brachybranchus
G. brasiliensis
G. steindachneri
G. abalios
G. cf. altifrons "Rio Tocantins"
G. dicrozoster
G. surinamensis or what is thought to be
G. altifrons "aripuana II"
G. argyrostictus
G. sp. "Bahia Red" may be iporangensis

Then there's a few gymnos, Acarichthys heckelii and a few Satanoperca.

but hey I'm in Oz so that lists prob no help to ya
heh heh